Are the ancient greeks still revelant when it comes to philosophy?
Philosophy has its origins in ancient Greece and ancient Greek philosophers continue to serve as archetypes for us, so yes, they're definitely still relevant.
nigga that made my eyes hurt. let me answer you with a more relevant question:
is contemporary philosophy relevant, knowing what was done in ancient times?
Is philosophy even relevant anymore?
>>7839156
regards, /sci/.
If you read Plato's first dialogue (Euthyphro), unless you're dull as a rock you'll see how Plato treats the definition of what is good (piety) in relation to the divine will and come to the conclusion that this is indeed still very relevant, where the Islamic religion is on the news every other day.
>>7839158
>>7839151
>is contemporary philosophy relevant, knowing what was done in ancient times?
I have no idea, I don't know anything about contemporary philosophy.
>>7839340
Yea actually, the most contemporary lit seems to get is Nietzsche aside from that one Jung guy. What is contemporary philosophy?
>>7839352
Foucault, Derrida, Lacan, basically a lot of French marxists who pooched parts of Nietzsche's methodology to deconstruct everything. There hasn't been any truly meaningful philosophy since Heidegger and even he paled in comparison to what Nietzsche. And nothing constructive, nothing that's both good and constructive that is.
Which funnily enough perfectly aligns with Nietzsche's prediction. He predicted the 20th century would be nothing but pointless wars of mass ideologies and that the west wouldn't even begin to address the problem of nihilism in earnest until the 21st century.
>>7839434
>I talk shit without actually reading: the post
>>7839434
I used to know a philosophy professor who was trying to address the issue Nietzsche put forth of Nihilism using Nishitani, an early 1900's Japanese philosopher. Might be something to check out.
>>7839101
nah
>>7839453
Nishida > Nishitani
I think so, thinking socratically is a helpful tool in life.
Only if you start with them
>>7839151
Whenever someone starts a sentence with the word "nigga",I Imagine that they have this deep,dumb sounding voice.
>>7839352
It's because the newer guys are so fucking boring. Postmodernism? Poststructuralism? All that shit is about as inspiring as the fucking urban architecture it has created, or urban architecture in general, it's too rigid and cleanly, and feels like the consequential evolution of analytics and academic wankery.
Philosophy spans ages and time. Yes, they are still very relevant.
Barring all memes, the republic is extremely useful STILL
>>7840024
I'm currently reading The Republic, and struggling to see its relevance to the modern world. Could you please elaborate?
>>7840033
The way I use it, is to in a sense abstract it, because then it begs of us a lot of questions. I think the most poignant and relevant topic would be Plato's political dialog.
It's what he says about the inherent goodness (or lack of) in men, that ought to make us question political instructions and the individuals role in it.
For example, if all humans are prone to decadence, and all of us will act to attain it, doesn't that implicate politicians? Further, it should ask us to asses the leaders purpose, his term, and what structures need to be in place to allow for optimal, platonic government.
Unfortunately, Plato does a lot of strawmanning (like in the case of implicating all humans, especially those in government), but distilling that to core beliefs, is actually a fairly powerful political discourse.
What do we, the constituents, owe to our leading class and our warrior class? Conversely, what do they owe to us? Can we function efficiently when one class is out of balance? And specifically what does balance mean, how does one maintain it? A home for everyman? If your workers are poor and feeble they won't be able to work. If your warriors have no honor or duty they can seize power. If your leaders are corrupt and decedent they hurt those beneath them.
You can take these and start applying them to real life politics, concepts of Justice, morality, etc.
>>7840057
Thanks man, that really helped. I'm halfway through (5/10).
>>7839101
Of course, two millennia don't just change the truth.
Epikur is still right
>>7840063
You'll find book 9 to be extremely insightful, I think.
Like I said, these ideas aren't tied to the existence of the Hellenistic Greek. They exist in abstract form without an owner, so broad they can fill just about everything.
>>7840069
The Republic is actually my first excursion into philosophy. I'm enjoying it so far, and I think I grasp most of Plato's points. Any recommendations on what I should read next?
>>7840078
Certainly. Read The Apology next. It's another Plato, and is EXCELLENT. After I'd suggest the Nichomachean Ethics by Aristotle (as much as you can stomach), and his writings on Temperance. This is all very early, but broad stuff. I especially liked Aristotle's writings on Moderation.
The Nichomachean is a long and hard(lel) read. There's no shame in supplementation or getting some interpretation either.
>>7840081
Thanks man. This is why I love /lit/.
>>7840078
If you want to delve into Plato, start with the Apology and then proceed chronologically.
>>7840078
Plato is great, get the euthyphro, crito, and apology. Then I'd take a short detour into Aristophanes' The Clouds.
>>7840121
Forgot Phaedo; it should also go with the other Plato works.
>>7840130
You'll figure out by yourself after that. Hopefully it is going to take a while.
>>7840130
the romans
>>7840130
I'm biased af, but the Stoics. So, the meditations?
>greek philosophy = plato and plato alone
read nietzsche's 'philosophy in the tragic age of the greeks' senpai
>>7840279
He was asking specifically about The Republic. Some anons here have suggested Aristotle and Socrates as well
>>7840294
>Socrates
uhhh
I have a question: Did Aristotle fuck Alexander?
Heraclitus was right all along.
Socrates is a fucking sophist. Aristotle held back philosophy for hundreds of years. Plato's late works are GOAT t b h.
Truth never changes, only how we perceive it.
>>7840615
>Socrates is a fucking sophist.
How? Wasn't he fighting against them?
>>7840610
Pupil-master relations were never about penetration.
>>7840610
>"I must tread the way between the girl pussy and the boy pussy Alexander"
>"why is that teacher?"
>"as the tongue enjoys a moderation between the sweet and bitter so too must I enjoy a moderation between sweet bp and bitter roastie"
>"o-oh... I guess that means..."
>"yes my boy. It will be just like my animu"
>(...)
>Aristotle writes: "On Boipucci (◠﹏◠)"
>>7840632
What then? Was it something like Socrates-Alkibiades relationship?
>>7840628
He would shit on everyone while hiding behind "I know nothing for sure, you're the one that claims to know", he then goes on to base his arguments on wild claims that he never proves.
Socrates is really just a Plato self insert and the few dialogues that might be alluding to the real Socrates, his opponents are strawmen. Xenophon is worse than Plato in this respect as they simply say "yes", "no", "hmm, I suppose you're right Socrates".
S: "a ship has a sail does it not?"
G: "yes"
S: "and a ship has a captain?"
G: "yes"
S: "so as the ship has a sail, the city also has law. And as it has a skilled captain so too does it need a ruler"
G: "by jove you're right Socrates"
S: "and so he should be just as a captain is a skilled sailor"
G: "yes, but what is justice?"
S: "I ask the questions around here"
>>7840661
>"I ask the questions around here"
HAHAHAHA well played my friend, even though I disagree with you.
>>7840266
so one would just read the meditations straight after reading the odyssey?
>>7840661
>He would shit on everyone
How so?
I've just finished the odyssey and i want to start readin works by plato/soc and stuff about stoicism
where do i go and what do i read (in order if possible)
>>7840615
Man, /lit/ has become an awful place for philosophy discussion, lately. Shame, because I remember having some really great conversations here in years past.
>>7839434
tbhfam
>>7840610
He would have been a fool not to.
>>7840057
What good are Platonic ideas of justice, goodness, virtue, etc. when they've been deconstructed to hell and back in the past century?
>>7840057
That's certainly one way to read Republic. A different way is that the political aspects are simply there to serve as an analogy for the metaphysical argument concerning Justice. Socrates elects to answer the question of why being Just is better than being unjust with an analogy, and he choose the ideal state, claiming that understanding a larger system is easier than a smaller one (the human soul). The ideal state is a construct meant to loosely resemble the tripartitie human soul. Does he really believe the political aspects of Republic?
I think that one could put forth the argument that what it is most concerned about is why is the Philosopher the highest form of human occupation, and why does the contemplation of the Forms matter? According to Plato, Philosophy is the highest calling because, to be a true philosopher, one only concerns himself with understanding the Good. The goal is to become wise, which is an underlying theme in many of the dialogues. Those that are wise are unconcerned with the trivial, or bodily, affairs and only concerned with the soul (harkening back to not Pythagoras, but also the Orphic and Bacchic cults as well).
The Forms are important because they are only thing really worth knowing. The famous analogy of the cave concerns this subject. To worship a likeness of a thing as the thing itself is to misunderstand the thing intrinsically. Socrates uses the example of Beauty, in that people who worship beautiful things don't understand beauty. The same is true of the Good, only the philosopher understands what Good really is. Just like the poor chained people in the cave, who know only shadows of the Forms, not the Forms themselves.
So Plato sets up a hierarchical soul, with Reason at the top level, and then Spirit and Appetites. Appetites are the base desires of the body, Spirit is basically motivating emotion and Reason is what it sounds like. A Just soul, according to Plato, is one where Reason is stronger than Spirit, and where Reason and Spirit together temper Appetites.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the political arguments aren't important, I'm just saying that so often the Republic is simply labeled a political dialogue, when the metaphysical aspect is just as important. Maybe more so?
>>7840818
For a student of philosophy, it is important to comprehend the ground ideas first in order to develop, refute, or 'deconstruct' them.
>>7840897
Especially true when read in the context of the other dialogues, and especially the Timaeus afterwards.
>>7840673
desu the only reason anyone should read the works by classical stoics is to try to understand what they thought, not to try to get to the best way of living. Modern scholarship is the way to go for the stoics.
>>7840695
Plato's apology, crito, euthyphro, and phaedo. Then if you want more go Republic and Symposium and consider Aristotle's Ethics, then Politics.
You can start Stoics after the first 4 Plato pieces. Read Epictetus' handbook (also consider the Dialogues if he's working for you), then Seneca's letters, then Marcus Aurelius' meditations.
>>7840130
You eventually need a focus or you'll start to rack up a huge fucking backlog.
There's already a post about Stoics; I recommend Plutarch's Lives just for fun (at least Caesar and Cato the younger), if you want to check out other schools Epicurus' handbook is a short taster for Epicureanism, and Ovid and Virgil's epics are definitely worthwhile (Aeneid is based)
Do Cicero right at the end of the ancients. He nicely sums up and engages the schools he comes into contact with, and is a good way to transition into Saint Augustine or Macchiavelli
>>7841623
what would you suggest for modern reads then?
BUMP
anyone know what to read after reading homer's work?
im finishing the iliad and after the odyssey i wanted to know where the best place to go was
>>7844030
If you like greek mythology:
Gods and Heroes of Ancient Greeks by Gustav Schwab
Also:
Plato Complete Works
Complete Works of Aristotle
>>7844030
Plato.
Euthyphro > Apologia > Credo > Phaedo
>>7840641
joel jurion is GOAT
