Has anyone on /Lit/ read The Magic Mountain? Also is Buddenbrooks worth a read?
No, no one on /lit/ has read one of the most famous and influential books of German literature. Not a single one.
Not sure why you open you rthread with a question like that.
Yes Buddenbrooks is worth a read, as is Doctor Faustus and Joseph and His Brothers.
Yeah, I read it. Pretty comfy, until Naphtha gets in there and shits everything up with his Jesuit bullshit.
I'm interested in reading Buddenbrooks myself, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
>>7796495
>No, no one on /lit/ has read one of the most famous and influential books of German literature. Not a single one.
Is this sarcasm? /lit/ is full of plebs, so I bet there are many important works of literature they haven't read a page of.
>>7796510
if you used the archive you'd see mann is far from unread here. he's not memed here (and that's probably a good thing) but plenty of people have read him
>>7796495
Perhaps I should have worded it better but I see the Magic Mountain recommended here from time to time but there is never much discussion about it. I'm assuming you've read it, what did you think about it?
>>7796495
>no one on /lit/ has read
that may be true, yet I rarely see Mann threads here
I haven't read much Mann myself, just Mario and the magician and the Doctor Faustus, both are exceptional works.
If you are so familiar with German literature or Mann, you may make a chart.I'm saying this without even the slightest hint of irony. I'm about to get further into Mann, this would be good guidance.
>>7796540
Someone tried to make a German chart a couple weeks ago. There was a strawpoll. Must have died/not enough votes.
>>7796491
funny you should mention it. i just read the first hundred pages of the book in the past 2 days. frankly, i find it rather boring.
i don't read for plot. i read for language. and the prose just isn't doing it for me. perhaps, i have a bad translation.
i loved mann's death in venice. however, after having seen two different translations of the work, i can say that i might not have enjoyed it if i had read the second translation from the one initially read.
pick your translator carefully.
also, what is with mann and making Italian characters always be some damned demonic?
>>7796562
>I read for language
>>7796562
What were the translations
>>7796539
One of my favorite books. I personally enjoy Doctor Faustus more since the themes and subject matter coincide more explicitly with my interests (classical music, art vs. artist, etc.), but it's probably the best single book to get a sense of Mann as a writer and you get a lot of the same themes.
I'm planning on reading it again sometime this year actually, since this was the first Mann I read and I just went with a HT Lowe Porter translation I found in the library. I've since discovered that John Woods is a much better translator so I'll just read his for a second read-through.
Mann himself said that he thinks it will take a reader multiple readings to get the most out of the book and I'm inclined to agree.
>>7796540
I'm not too familiar with all of German literature or anything like that but I like Mann a lot. I'm really glad you read Mario and the Magician cause that's my favorite of his shorter works and it tends to get overlooked in favor of Death and Venice and sometimes Tonio Kroger. Since you've already read Doctor Faustus and Mario the Magician, both of which are works more explicitly concerned with National Socialism, I think maybe it'd make sense for you to go back and read Buddenbrooks, for a sense of where Mann was coming from in a pre-Nazi conception of German culture and society. The book is about "nothing" but just keep the subtitle "Decline of a Family" in mind when reading it. Mann had to add that subtitle because people were apparently confused by the "point" of the book when it was published without it. Mann won the Nobel off Buddenbrooks alone, more or less (Magic Mountain was published but Buddenbrooks was cited; it predated Doctor Faustus and Joseph).
>>7796562
>>7796582
I strongly recommend all readers of Mann to go with John Woods. There are certain highly specific and possibly idiosyncratic reasons where one might prefer the much older HT Lowe Porter, but I think first time/general readers would be much better served by Woods.
Funny you should say "I don't read for plot" considering the Magic Mountain is not a particularly plot-driven novel. It's very much an "ideas" novel where the author also happens to hammer in the extent of his erudition to you, ad nauseum.
>>7796582
H. T. Lowe-Porter was the translator for the magic mountain. version i bought below:
http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Zauberberg-Translated-German-Lowe-Porter/dp/B002BAHU1Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457646063&sr=8-1&keywords=magic+mountain+1964
>>7796555
Didn't realize there was no German literature chart. I'd love to make one.
>>7796597
German language, not nationality please.
>>7796555
>>7796597
There's a really old/outdated/poor one.
>>7796539
Maybe there's little discussion because people only bring it up to question others if they read it or to recommend it to others. If you want interesting discussion about a subject it starts with you, OP.
>>7796585
M&M was a mandatory read in high school.
>coincide more explicitly with my interests
For me it was quite the opposite. I started to listen and appreciate classical music after (even during) I read Doctor Faustus.
> go back and read Buddenbrooks
I was planning on reading The Magic Mountain next, but I think I'll heed your advice.
>>7796592
>Funny you should say "I don't read for plot" considering the Magic Mountain is not a particularly plot-driven novel.
that's why i thought i would like it. but the only thing that caught my attention for the first hundred pages was whenhans made the correlation of how mentally ill people were socially seen more as being creative and odd, whereas normal people are rather boring in their disposition but sane.. i liked discussions as well as some of the magical elements like whenthe woman whistles from out her chest because of having a piece of her lung removed, or the relativity of time on the mountain itself. maybe i just need to find a new translation.
>>7796619
Yea try the Woods translation. Most people think it reads livelier and better than the L-P one.
The book is fairly allegorical, most characters are caricatures/symbols of a particular belief system/contemporary thinker/national attitude. It's a bit simplified, but you can think of the sanitarium as a microcosm of interbellum Europe.
>>7796632
Actually I should revise that to say pre-WWI as well as post-WWI Europe. The book was begun before WWI and finished after it concluded so it contains influences and attitudes from both periods.
>>7796632
thanks. i'll look for used copies with that translator and give it another go.
>>7796612
>M&M was a mandatory read in high school.
What country? Germany?
>For me it was quite the opposite. I started to listen and appreciate classical music after (even during) I read Doctor Faustus.
It's a good life senpai. Fast track to patricianhood desu.
>I was planning on reading The Magic Mountain next, but I think I'll heed your advice.
Enjoy. It's a fairly comfy read and straightforward by Mann standards. I finished it a lot faster than I thought I would given it actually took me some time to finish Magic Mountain and Doctor Faust due to the sheer density and complexity of the words on the page.
>>7796739
Austerlitz by sebald could be added
I've read Buddenbrooks but not The Magic Mountain, is it worth it?
Buddenbrooks definitely was.
>>7797317
ya almost all of mann's stuff is worth it. def read death in venice, tonio kroger, mario and the magician (all novellas) and magic mountain/doctor faustus.
joseph and his brothers and his later stuff like felix krull (incomplete) and holy sinner are optional imo,.
>>7796739
Jakob von Guten - Walser
The Loser - Bernhard
>>7796661
No, I'm Hungarian. As far as I know, Mann was at good terms with Hungarian writers though. For example, he wrote a foreword for one of Kosztolányi's novels.
giving it a bump, one of the (sadly) better threads lately
where all my mann-fags at?
>>7797468
Mann considered Joseph and his brothers to be his best book.
>>7799303
I'm aware, though note it predated Doctor Faustus
Also though Mann himself felt it was his magnum opus, that doesn't necessarily mean it's his most iconic/influential work.
Don't get me wrong I think it's very much worth reading, but for someone who's just looking to get acquainted with Mann, his other novels are more "important." If someone decides they really love Mann after that point then definitely read Joseph.
>>7799324
Of all the Mann I've read I like Joseph best (death in Venice, Joseph and his brothers, Dr. Faustus, magic mountain).
I don't know very much about classical music so that may be why I liked Joseph better than Dr. Faustus.
I also really like biblical stories.
>>7799165
I've only read Death in Venice and enjoyed it a lot. Magic Mountain is on the top of my reading list now. Someone on here mentioned there being an obvious influence on Mishima, or maybe I read that somewhere else. Can anyone who read them both see what they meant?
>>7800020
Mishima admired Mann greatly. It's a well documented influence, and fairly noticeable.
>>7800035
I could definitely tell with Death in Venice and its themes but what about Magic Mountain specifically?
>>7800020
I think they just share a lot of subjects and interest; death, decline, the Greeks, beauty.
I mean if you have read Death in Venice it should be quite obvious. The whole homosexual thing is going on, the intellectual beauty vs. the physical beauty topic is there, death and decay plays a huge role.
