Do you have purpose?
>>7782191
nope
>>7782191
maybe.
i don't. nope.
https://youtu.be/wG5IadQxhvE
No, it's such a hustle.
understand the world, burn all books in existence, and help others
MMM... yes. But school, work, social life, family are getting the way.
One of these days I will go full hermit and meditate like the Buddha did, to extinguish all suffering and attain Nibbana. But I will remain quiet, an Arahant, Enlightened and Noble, to those around me, friends and family and eventually my community.
Not today now. Not this month. Not this year. I'm slowly preparing for it. A week of total silence and fasting, meditation and Dhamma readings only. I will sit down for the last time and end suffering. Some people go into retreats, while looking into their next return. I'm heeding my Teacher's advice: do it once, and get it over with; go with the intention of never returning again.
Just not now. I have a paper to write.
Direct all pseudposting to /his/
>>7782249
What if it takes more than a week, anon?
What if you're dead before you get a chance to do what you're considering?
>>7782249
Just don't become Pretentious Western Buddhist #1329.
Do it fucking quietly. Actually go to Tibet or something.
Nobody has a pre-set purpose. Meaning is a social-construction brought about by language (i.e., associating with signs and cultural symbols). It's a "spook" in the strictest sense.
>>7782269
I've been chipping away. Doing morning meditaton, reading Scriptures. Cultivating my mind to wholesome thoughts. Commiting good actions. Realizing my actions are important.
Like I said, it's a "someday" goal, within the next two decades. I will chip away at it with my good habits and meditation.
>>7782282
A "good" "Buddhist" does not identify as a Buddhist. I will spread goodwill and help those around me, without dogmatic influences and rather, relate to the emotional/spiritual level in which all people can understand.
>>7782307
>This is all I want in life
To eliminate suffering?
Take careful note of what you mean by "this is all I want". Is this truly the sole purpose of your existence? To cultivate the cessation of suffering and liberation of your mind? If so, spend not one more second in idleness.
>Is it possible to do this without turning into a pretentious pseud?
Pretension? If you are genuine in releasing suffering and cultivating wholesomeness, there will be no more pretensions but honesty and sincerity.
>>7782341
>committing good actions; a good Buddhist
You have to see beyond the dichotomy of good and evil.
For example, Buddhists are calm not because they try to be calm, but, rather, because they are indifferent. They do not try to be anything. They simply are. They simply exist. If you are trying to attain something (like a goal), you will never reach it. The point of understanding enlightenment, is that the concept itself does not exist.
Remember the monkey trying to grasp the moon in the mirror of water.
>>7782229
i admire you deeply
>>7782258
I've just punched you in the throat, causing internal bleeding.
The reason why I've done this, is because you used "pseud", albeit as a prefix, in your post. The popularization of the slang word "pseud", less the O, is the single worst thing that /lit/ has ever done. It is a /bullshit faggot/ piece of slang. It is a /punchable/ word. And, one hundred percent of the time, the people who use it on this board, are themselves /punchable faggots/.
Finally, I'll have you know that I'm not that guy. I've simply adopted a policy of automatically punching /lit/ users in the throat whenever they use this piece of slang.
>>7782191
To stick my dick in women, obviously.
*whips hair back*
>>7782191
First it was to get in a high powered position one day that will help change the world. Next it was to just get a simple job that would help other people. Now I'd rather just make money.
But most importantly, I'd rather just try and be happy.
My only hope is that maybe one day God will send me a friend.
>>7782385
And a girlfriend.
>>7782360
You agree that there are such things as unwholesome, unskillful actions and their oppposite, wholesome and skilfull action?
It's not so much good vs evil, it's the quality, intent, of the action (will this action cause me suffering, and others around me? will this action bring peace to me and to other's around me).
> Buddhists are calm not because they try to be calm, but, rather, because they are indifferent
Indifferent implies a lack of concern... they are calm because they are concerned with something, mainly themselves.
They are calm becuse the mind is easier to watch and observe when it is relaxed. This is the main reason why calm (samatha) is so essential to practice and mental rest.
>If you are trying to attain something (like a goal), you will never reach it.
I think the lesson here is being missed.
Sort of like the usual misconception of "why are buddhist attached to enlightenment?"
The truth is we are human and we will have attachments. As we progress in the path, we must have a clear, directed, intent (a goal) into attaining enlightenment. The Buddha sat down with the clearest intent of eliminating suffering.
Think of it like a ladder, to get to the top you have to climb onto the higher rungs. It's okay to "attach" to the rungs since you are reaching the top, of higher and wholesome states and likewise you are transcending the lower states, the lower rungs. You have to hold on to the higher rungs to reach the top. But of course, as per Enlightenment, you will eventually have to let go of the Dhamma itself.
>>7782419
>must have a clear intent (goal)
Having a goal is a "desire" that you have (i.e., something you wish to attain). You must free yourself from desire to attain enlightenment, no?
Read ikkyu's Skeletons. It's a short and funny work by the wonderful Zen monk. In it, he outlines the banality and meaningless of existence. Or, read various Zen Koans. They offer the same insight.
I know that there is a mystical aspect associated with Buddhism, but, at the end of the day, Buddhism really is no different than nihilism. It's letting go of dualities and embracing a holistic perspective. The yin is not separate from the yang. The Enso is eternal emptiness.
Yes, and I have created it. No person, no entity, and no environmental force has bestowed this purpose and nor does it apply to others. I crafted it based on my limited experience, a desire for happiness, a disdain for certain groups of people, and a vague sense of fellowship with humanity as a whole given that extraterrestrial intelligences are operating out there.
>>7782462
But if you made-up the meaning in your mind, how is it any different than any other illusion that someone makes with their imagination? It's not a universal truth, but, rather, a relative interpretation, yes?
>>7782360
>>7782450
Why are you using a name?
From what I've seen, I agree with most of what you have said.
But the name automatically makes me assume you are an autistic attention seeking faggot.
Your ideas should stand up on their own without having the "authority" of a name behind them.
You should also respect them enough to not taint them with the stereotypes that surround tripfags.
>>7782470
You're correct that it is absolutely not a universal truth, but rather something contrived through imagination. However, what separates it from any other product of the imagination is that it guides real actions I undertake. It motivates me and prevents lethargy. Even if only through small scale events, my purpose impacts the world.
>>7782477
>makes me assume
I don't mean to be rude, but you shouldn't be so presumptuous to assume things about people. You're letting your imagination run amok, creating an image or ideal about me that doesn't actually exist outside of your own mind.
>tripfag
When people assimilate to the dominant ideals of a culture, they are often met with acceptance. Those who deviate from it, are usually outcast or their actions are called into question. Anonymity is the norm here, and I am breaking away from it; therefore, you call it into question. It's not a surprise.
>you should respect them
Not aware I was being disrespectful. Still, respect and disrespect are relative terms. I am simply responding to people's opinion with my own sense of insight. Whether it conforms to the status quo or not (whether it is seen as being socially acceptable or not) is irrelevant.
>>7782450
Yeah this is the typical misconception.
>You must free yourself from desire to attain enlightenment, no?
Didn't the buddha have a goal when he sat down in the Boddhi tree? Do you think he was just sitting, waiting for it to smack it in the head? There was work to be done. You can "desire" to free yourself from desire. You can "attach" to the Path of liberation.
Purpose is a human concept.
The univers is pure carelessness.
>>7782486
>it motivates me
>it guides real actions
Yes. Ideology creates desires which are then used as a means of motivating man to take action. It is by these actions that man makes his meaning. I have no qualms about how you live your life, but you do understand the socially constructed nature of the meanings you are making, yes?
>tfw when people talk about life being meaningless they're just talking about their own life and actions, applying their own hideously limited perception to the whole of existence which defies all comprehension
>>7782509
What do you gain from the following Koan? Is it not a story about freeing one's mind from ideological thoughts? The only things there are to contemplate or discuss are the problems we make for ourselves in our minds. Let go, lest you be burdened by it, carrying all that unnecessary weight.
. . .
Muddy Road
Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.
Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.
"Come on, girl" said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.
Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"
"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"
>>7782529
Yes. My purpose and meaning is not divine. But it sure as hell beats eating ben n jennys while whining about existential drivel.
>>7782519
are you not a human?
>>7782555
People tend to think nihilists are melodramatic, emo-type people. But, it's actually the very opposite.
>>7782561
There's nothing scientifically inaccurate about the statement he made. The universe, after all, isn't conscious enough to care about any of us.
>>7782559
Development. That's whats all lifeforms do.
>>7782553
Hmm...
I think Tanzan just lifted the girl to cross the mud.
His friend queried him on it, stating that monks shouldn't go near beautiful, lest they be tempted or whatever.
But his friend had only the intent of helping her cross the mud and nothing more thus Ekido was still holding on to her, or rather, the frowned upon, implications of being near a source of tempation. all the while, Ekido left her once they crossed.
---
It's interesting you bring up zen koans, being so succint and concise.
Zen, I find, remove much of mysticism of Buddhism.
Before Nirvana:
Chop wood, fetch water.
After Nirvana:
Chop wood, fetch water.
See how clean it is? Nothing extraneous or mystical.
>>7782582
You mean evolution? Yes, things evolve over time. I fail to see what that has to do with meaning, though.
Dinosaurs evolved from other animals only to go extinct. I think 95% of all lifeforms that every lived on this planet have gone extinct. Humans will be the same, too.
>>7782589
May I also add...
With all of these complexities of desiring, non-desiring and whatever.
The basic teaching boils down to the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path. It's basic but encompassing and enough to guide us to liberation.
>>7782574
There's nothing scientific to be accurate about. The question was not whether the universe has a purpose. It was whether YOU had a purpose. Unless you take some pleb pantheist position.
>>7782505
You missed the point.
If you really think your ideas are good then why give people the chance to dismiss them for any other reason than them finding flaws in those ideas?
What exactly are you gaining? Just breaking away from something for no reason is angst-ridden teen level shit.
And actually you aren't breaking from the norm, but helping /lit/ to move into it. Most boards have a lot of trips who try to use their preserved seniority to avoid criticism.
4chan, and /lit/ in particular, is unique because of the free flow of ideas.
Don't you often wish that politicians could debate on matters of principal and were free of the stigmas attached to their parties?
Naming yourself is the ultimate conformity. If it is really that important to you, then maybe you would like r eddit better (I don't even mean this in a rude way).
>>7782589
Yes. Ekido held on to the "shame" in his head from Tanzan carrying the girl while Tanzan (being Zen-like) forgot about it the instant he did it. Tanzan was enlightened while Ekido was not.
>before/after nirvana
Exactly. Nothing changes once one attains enlightenment. Life goes on as it will. Life simply is. No more, no less.
>>7782601
As I said prior, there is no pre-set meaning to existence. Therefore, any meaning we make is socially-constructed in our minds, making it no different than an illusion (i.e., something that we interpret to be true for the sake of convenience).
Personally, I don't have a meaning or purpose. For, to create a purpose is to create an illusion. And when one believes in illusions, I feel that their entire life then becomes a lie: a giant falsehood.
>>7782609
So relating back to our discussion, didn't Ekido have to carry a burden (grasping, holding) to attain Nirvana (crossing, releasing burden)?
He didn't magically cross the mud with super enlightened powers, he had to carry himself, the suffering (symbolized by the woman) across until he made it to the other side (and then he released her).
>>7782229
jesus christ dude...
My purpose is to one day not be a disgrace to all my senpais
>>7782606
>finding flaw in my ideas
By all means, I am willing to hear criticisms to my ideas. No one has been able to do this yet in this particular thread. No one has provided substantial enough evidence to sway me from the perspectives that I currently hold.
>what are you gaining?
I am not trying to gain anything. People create threads and ask questions and I response to those questions to the best of my knowledge.
>unique because of free flow of ideas
Exactly. Which is why I am offering my ideas to others through these threads.
>just breaking away from something
I neither conform nor break away. I simply do the things I do. If I happen to conform to an idea or deviate from idea, then so be it. I don't premeditate my actions to fall in line or deviate from some specific ideal. I just do what I do for the sake of doing it. Why? Because it momentarily interests me, I suppose. Starring at walls all day would be rather boring, no?
>>7782624
There are a number of (physical) illusions you will never have the chance of dispelling.
One example is how we perceive light. It's an illusion that we are seeing on a macrolevel, the "present" image of the object through light. But as light travels a medium it will take time, and thus the illusion is you will always see things in the past and never as they are, if you use your external senses that is. Would you say your life is a lie then?
My purpose is to read.
>>7782632
No, the woman was not symbolic of his burden to attain Nirvana.
Ekido didn't want to carry the woman because of the taboo associated with the act for a monk. Ekido still believed in morality.
Tanzan, however, saw beyond that false morality, and, in doing so, carried the woman across the river.
Ekido then reprimanded Tanzan for this. Tanzan then tried to enlighten Ekido to "let go" of his false morality in an attempt to help him attain enlightenment.
>>7782561
The point is the answer doesn't matter since I can define in anyway what a purpose is and therefore choose anything to be my purpose.
What OP actually meant to ask was if we were satisfied with the course of our existence for which each of us has indeed is own personal and subjective answer.
>>7782624
I'd say what matters more is the effect. Without defining a purpose and setting out to achieve it we wouldn't have had so many inventions like the airplane and cars, not to mention so many works of art and scientific discoveries.
The matter comes down to which is more useful: having a purpose or not having one?
Besides that, many people will tell you there were times where a certain occupation was ready to kill them from the sheer amount of negativity and emptiness they felt in it, until they moved out of it and found a better place for themselves. A place where they could act in full expression and no longer feel as if they're just pushing a wheel, but doing something that's important to them and others
We can very much define that "place" as being ones purpose, one defined at a very subtle level and for most people is a long process of discovery.
This directly relates to the OPs original question.
>>7782191
Yes
>>7782652
No. Because we can understand how light works through the physical sciences. There is no mystery about it. That's just the way things work.
You are referencing Einstein's special theory of relativity. For example, when we look at the stars in the night sky, we are looking into the past since it takes time for that light to reach us.
But, again. The sciences can understand and note thing. I fail to consider it illusory. It is a simple scientific fact.
>>7782668
How does that relate to your original point of "you shouldn't desire to be enlightened, because you will never be enlightened because you have desire?"
>>7782694
Yes, but you are human, you use your eyes to see.
>illusion
>a thing that is or is likely to be wrongly perceived or interpreted by the senses.
Knowing it's an illusion, does not dispell it being an illusion. You are living with a lot of illusions, most of which you will never be aware of. Would you say that life is a life?
>>7782682
>we would have no inventions without being motivated by meanings
Yes. What's your point? We also wouldn't have polluted the planet beyond repair with all our inventions either. The Native Americans didn't invent cars or rockets. Are they less of a human being because of this?
>doing something that is important
You are doing things that you perceive as being important. They actually aren't that important to the earth. Still, I'm not expecting people to stare at walls all day. If you find enjoyment in things, then by all means do them. I'm not trying to stop you.
>which is more useful
That the philosophy of pragmatism. This is a philosophy that focuses on the practical use and daily applications of things. You would enjoy the works of Richard Rorty or John Dewey.
>>7782650
Yeah I got all that before, the kind of attitude that says the only reason not to kill yourself is because there is no reason to kill yourself.
Likewise, why would you bother taking off name when there is no reason not to because there is no reason to do to anything at all and everything you ever do based on a whim.
So you just decided to put on a name for no reason and now won't get rid of it since there is no reason to do that.
How long are you planning on saying on /lit/ though? Or is that too just left to chance?
>>7782650
>By all means, I am willing to hear criticisms to my ideas. No one has been able to do this yet in this particular thread. No one has provided substantial enough evidence to sway me from the perspectives that I currently hold.
And most importantly, no one here gives a shit. Figure it out on your own you annoying faggot
>>7782720
Why are you chopping up my quotes then responding to your versions of them?
>>7782696
Because, as I said in a previous post (>>7782360), enlightenment does not really exist; it is simply a concept that men have made with their minds, having no bearing upon reality.
Tanzan was enlightened because he was "voided out" from anything. He was empty. He was indifferent and ultimately nihilistic. He was unrestrained by any ideology or system. This is enlightenment: understanding that the concept itself is bullshit. See beyond ideology and you'll see things for how they actually are, not as how you would like them to be.
>>7782745
In practice enlightenment is more of a process, as indicated in the koan you posted.
>>7782706
If you think your physical body is a lie or illusion, then smack your head against your desk over and over again. After doing this, tell me if you still think it is an illusion.
It is true that at the quantum level, an atom is made up mostly of empty space, which is rather odd and causes a great amount of confusion to what life actually is on a fundamental level; however, you have to understand that the quantum world and ours adhere to very different physical laws and rules. You can't really equate the two.
>>7782728
I am pointing all of your logical fallacies and disproving them, making your arguments invalid. That's how debates and discussions generally work. We look for weaknesses in each other's arguments in an attempt to ascertain the truth.
>>7782749
Too many ad hominems to take serious.
Feel free to organize some thoughts and contribute to the discussion at hand though if you want. However, if you're just going to troll in an attempt to derail the thread, then you'll probably just be ignored.
>>7782769
It looks more like you're taking my points out of context and choosing which ones to address to better fit your argument. You quite literally removed essential points and addressed something completely different.
>>7782754
This is simply a case of semantics then. Your definition or concept of enlightenment is different from my own, preventing us from coming to a shared consensus.
When people deny importance that same denial is a self important claim. It's self important because it presuposes that it itself is truth, it has an emotional/organical motive that precided it, and it is thought to be important enough that a living organism would waste its time engendering it and communicating it. When people say "the earth has no inherent meaning", the perception of the earth is given the meaning of not meaning something. It is impossible for a human to perceive something without it possesing a utility or an emotional motive behind it, therefore the claim that the universe is meaningless is just a hyperrealistic false statement.
>>7782784
>>7782780
I looked over your original post.
I responded to every point you made in your statement (with the exception of you talking about people making themselves miserable by working at jobs they disliked).
Generally, jobs are a form of "wage-slavery" where people are "exploited" for the work they do. Society itself is a power structure and is, fundamentally, oppressive. As such, it should come as no surprise that people find misery in it.
The reason I respond to separate aspects or your argument is because you don't really ask any direct questions related central to the current topic of discussion. How does anything that you said in your statement relate to proving that life has innate or pre-set meaning?
Not trying to be rude. If you can formulate a more direct question, I'll try my best to answer it.
>>7782774
Dude, you need some more self-awareness. Not everything is an argument.
It seems like you are still in teenager philosophy.
Everything has to be objective, it all has to follow logic, perceptions and emotions are meaningless and irrelevant to the truth, right?
There are things that go beyond that, most people realize this as they get older.
You'll probably want some great logically argument to back this up and you won't take this at all seriously, but that just shows how you don't understand it at all.
I hope you do grow out of this phase you're in, because it is a lot better when you get past it.
t. someone who use to think like you
>>7782745
You are getting to complicated.
Stick to the basics.
Enlightenment is the cessation of suffering.
The problem is perceivable, not some lofty mystical concept.
Also you say:
> He was unrestrained by any ideology or system
But you also say he was driven by morality.
>>7782784
>denial
Meaninglessness is not a denial of anything. Pre-set meaning has never been proven. Therefore, since the concept has never been actually proven or established, it would be unjust to say it is an act of denial to say it doesn't exist.
For example, people could say I deny God. But that's nonsense since God has never been actually proven to exist. You would first have to prove the existence of God before it would be considered an act of denial to not believe in him.
>impossible to perceive without emotional motive
Tell that to instinctual animals that don't operate on the basis of conscious thought.
>>7782758
Why are you going into quantum? I'm only examining light and how our senses are not getting the "true" data, as it always going through some biological filter.
What you perceive through your senses are erroneous and distorted? Is your life a lie then?
>>7782815
You've proven nothing in your statement (you have offered no EVIDENCE to disprove or dispel anything I have said). Furthermore, you have issued several more ad hominems at me. Please, gather up some information and prove me wrong. I would be most interested.
>>7782818
Tanzan had no ideology. His friend Ekido was driven by morality. Ekido suffered mentally because of what Tanzan did (carrying the girl). Tanzan did not suffer because he didn't care. Tanzan was enlightened. Ekido was not.
>>7782827
>deceiving senses
You are referring to Cartesian metaphysics, yes? If our senses deceive us, then everything can be seen as an illusion.
Honestly, most modern-day philosophers don't take metaphysics all that seriously. If our senses were deceiving us to such an extent, then how have we survived as a species for so long? Just because something is flawed does not mean that everything is an illusion.
For example, I may not have 20/20 vision. Does that mean that the things I see (which may be slightly blurred) are an illusion? Of course not. The argument is rather extreme in its scope.
Descartes is studied by freshman in a 101 philosophy course. He has his historical place in philosophy, but his ideas aren't really included in most modern-day philosophical discussions.
>>7782864
> If our senses deceive us, then everything can be seen as an illusion.
Note: I'm not saying I believe this. This is just a summation of what i think you are trying to say.
>>7782803
I'm not asking questions, much like you I'm delivering statements.
I included in my second to last sentence the implication of a natural affinity for certain activities which we can define as being ones purpose, as they give the end-effect of emotional fulfillment and inner peace.
From there, we very much can have a purpose if we choose to find it and not get caught in endless byways, but of course you can also choose to not see it as a "purpose" and just something you enjoy doing. Its a matter of perspective.
Why do I bring this up? Because OPs question was all about personal meaning. It was foolish to even bring in the meaning or apparent lack-of-meaning concerning life, since that wasn't even the initial premise of the thread.
And no, you did not respond to every point I made, let alone sufficiently. But since you insisted, lets discuss the points above as a fresh start.
>>7782845
meaning is an objective fact. We can objectively say that all organisms are born with an inherent meaning (reproduction, power, even contemplation for more advanced beings). This is a scientifically valid truth and nihilism is one that tries to deny this. In this denial then we go back to what i said in the past about denying meaning as a form of seeking new meaning.
>>7782868
Yes. But you have to first ask yourself why you get emotionally fulfillment out of the things you do. Understand why you desire the things you do.
For example, a man who values manliness will find great meaning in being manly, and by being manly, he will feel great about himself, building his ego up.
This is because the man internalized the ideal of being manly as the way he is supposed to live his life.
We need to understand that culture is "a way" of life, not "the way." When we start to see outside of our own ethnocentric perspectives, we see the relativity of meaning itself. Thus, if meaning, is nothing more than a relative social construction (an illusion) we make up with our minds, then aren't all the emotions that we find so fulfilling really just a vacuous and empty falsehood?
By all means, you can make whatever purpose you want. A maniac can convince himself that smearing himself with peanut butter and barking like a dog is an act of great meaning.
In short, people can (and often do) delude themselves into believing whatever it is they want to believe. So, yes. Any person can create a purpose for themselves.
What I am saying is that the purpose they make is just that: it is an imagining that they constructed in their mind. Nothing more.
>>7782191
We all have purpose. Some of us still don't know it.
>>7782864
>And when one believes in illusions, I feel that their entire life then becomes a lie: a giant falsehood.
Going by your idea, you are living a life of lies since there are a great number of illusions that you are being fooled by, most of which you are not even aware of.
>>7782872
>meaning is an objective fact
I never stated this,
>we can say all beings are born with inherent meaning
No, we can't. There is no inherent or pre-set meaning to life.
>nihilism tries to deny scientific truth
No. Science is fundamentally nihilistic in its scope and perspective.
>denying meaning as a form of seeking new meaning
What? That's like saying "not playing baseball" is a sport.
Is English your first language because I feel as if there is a linguistic barrier between us?
>>7782896
You've made this statement several times already. I've offered my rebuttal as to why I think your metaphysical perspective is flawed. Please re-read what I wrote above.
>>7782899
I suppose this argument is fruitless since it's ultimately based on how we define meaning. We can analyze living being's subjectivities and see that each of them have different meanings. They do not have to be the same or be objective, but they all have desires and invest their times into things, it can be proven that no living organism has a meaningless existence.
What i mean by meaning existing even as we deny it is that the ontological basis of organisms is one of striving for an external or currently inexistent state (i want to sleep, satiate my hunger, have a girlfriend...): not merely resting on one fixed state. Therefore it'd be nonsensical to say that thought processes which are of the same nature and born for evolutionary purposes can lack meaning --even when they deny it.
>>7782890
It can also be as simple as realizing to garden and enjoy the company of plants, then dedicating your life to the study of caring for plants, since that's what you enjoy to do. Note I said realizing, not arbitrarily deciding.
We can make this as complicated as we want, and I do agree that its good to assess your motives and perceptions of things, but the end point is that we do have natural affinity for XYZ, its just a matter of finding out what those are and using them, and that can be defined as our purpose if we chose to use those terms. In the end it boils down to just understanding and being true to yourself.
This pretty much answers OPs question, if he's still here. I'm not sure how much you want to continue investing in this discussion.
>>7782924
>it can be proven that no living organism has a meaningless existence
Then how do you explain existentialists, nihilists, dadaists, etc.
>ontological basis of organisms is one of striving for an external or currently inexistent state
These are simple life functions. One had to eat, sleep, and drink or else they'll die. It has nothing to do with meaning.
You are confusing the word "meaning" with "function." Just because something functions a certain way for utilitarian purposes, does not make its functioning meaningful.
>>7782926
>we do have natural affinity
No. That can be argued. Likes and dislikes can be conditioned through behaviorstic practices like positive and negative forms of reinforcement.
I can also use ideology and propaganda to manipulate a person's perspective, causing them to like and dislike certain things.
Living in social environments, we all all subjected on a daily basis to a myriad number of external stimuli that could cause us to feel certain ways about things, altering our perspective, and, thus, influencing our dispositions as individuals.
It's not as natural or innate as you claim it is.
>>7782905
You did not really rebutt.
Just answer these with yes or no
1) We rely on our senses and the senses are distorted giving us an distorted, illusory view of the world
2) If one believes or is beguiled by an illusion then life is a lie
If you answer yes to 1) and 2), you are living a life of lies.
>>7782989
1) No. As I mentioned above, just because something is distorted or flawed, does not make it illusory.
2) No. If you think your senses are flawed enough to make everything you do with them illusory, then go and stick your hand on a stove. Since your senses are flawed, the pain should be an illusion, right? But the pain isn't an illusion, now, is it?
Cartesian metaphysics is dead because of these reasons. I have nothing more to say.
>>7782962
Explain Mozart then, or so many other artists and even inventors who started off just having a natural interest in drawing, music, etc.
There are many other examples of parents who tried to force their children into things like dancing and sports which built up resentment since the child never care much for spots but wanted to please the parent. Then eventually coming to their own and breaking away.
People are not just blank slates, we adopt conceptions as matter of practicality but they can just as simply be switched out for our own inner drives once we are sufficiently matured. Hell even says in Mozart's bio it says he surpassed his father so quickly and profoundly that the old man gave up composing.
>>7782191
To serve God.
My belief in God is based purely on faith in the same way my belief in my hands is based purely on faith.
I believe it because it feels right and, in a world of pure uncertainty, a belief based on emotion is as good as any.
>>7783013
Mozart didn't just "start off". His father Leopold was a composer himself. And, from the age of 3 onward, Mozart lived in a setting infused with composing music. His father, Leopold, was very animate about teaching music to his children. You don't think that growing up in such a setting had an effect on him?
>people are not blank slates
No. We are not born tabula rasa. Some speculate that human beings have an innate ability at birth to learn a language. There are also other things we instinctual do. For example, if you hold a baby above flowing water, it will instinctually kick its legs as a natural response.
If you are going to make the claim that there is an innate drive in humans to do the things they do, you would need a lot of evidence to prove this claim. Currently, no one in the scientific community has been able to do this. When it comes to "human nature" we know very little. Chomsky and Foucault has a debate on human nature that was quite interesting (back in the 70s, I believe). Worth watching.
What you are asking is the age-old "Nature/Nurture" debate. In truth, we don't know enough about human nature to say what is instinctual and what is not beyond some very simplistic terms like identifying basic needs, etc.
What I am saying is that you are stating that these these are instinctual, when, in fact, you don't have enough evidence to justifiably come to that conclusion.
>>7783068
*these=things (last sentence).
>>7783038
This, the patrician answer right here.
>>7783038
How long have you believed in God, out of curiosity?
>>7783068
Studies of twins separated at birth and of biologically unrelated people adopted since birth into the same families show that approximately 50% of our psychological composition is genetical (this includes character, intelligence, and even certain personal quirks). This studies were done across a relatively homogenous cultural landscape so there's no way of knowing how much culture had to do with it when seen in a larger historical approach; but only inasmuch as there are still major cultural variations from family to family, and in the role that different parenting styles play within them.
>>7783068
Sure, I really don't have anything other than my own experience to share here. I'm not that interested in proving anything to some fraternity so much as outlining a concept that anyone can explore for themselves if they wish. I personally care more about results, so that's where I place the focus.
I know for a fact that many of my own inclinations were not imposed upon me by someone else, rather recognized as I went on in my life and acted upon. The things that were imposed were things I did not stick with for very long. I'm sure many others can give you a similar report, but I'm not really expecting you to be convinced of anything like this here. Search your own life and you just may find a similar progression.
Its been fun though, see you around.
>>7783134
Yes. This is another aspect of human nature. Twins are very interesting to study since they are the same at the genetic level. Therefore, it's fun to see how they differ with regards to their dispositions, trying to calculate how sociological factors influence them. As I said, I don't dispute the hereditary factors of things. It's just that we don't know enough about human nature to go and make conclusions about what we know to be innate and what we don't.
P.S. Do you have a link to the study's article abstract or a source? I'd like to read it if possible.
>>7783141
Adios, amigo/amiga.
Yes
I shall seek knowledge and change the world
Rise humanity to the next step towards evolution
In a few words i will become an Übermensch and save this world
And i will fight with all my might to achieve it
>>7783038
Even if material things can't be proven as "existant" ultimately, they're still measurable and observable and consistent. A hand is a hand, the implication of whether the hand is really there is irrelevant, we are using language to describe thr thing as we can observe it.
If I come up to you with 10 balls in my hand and say that every ball, when dropped, will fall you know just as well as I do that we'll both observe 10 balls falling. We have faith in measurement because it is useful to us. Faith in emotional belief is foolish, because we could lead ourselves to believe in things contrary to what we can measure, and we both know when things contradict the measurable thing will win out over emotion every time. If only I could tell this to all the poor people who believed they could fly and attempted to contradict gravity by taking a leap of faith off a cliff.
Depends on which macro-reality you ask.
Objectively? No. But some people count on me, so I have a purpose towards them.
Yes. My purpose is to FEEL THE BERN!
Bernie Sanders 2016!
He's not as good as Corbyn but he's the closest thing we've got, and he'll finally give the power back to the people.
>>7783723
I read that as "he'll finally give all the power to black people"
>>7783723
These are the unchartered antiquital lows of shitposting that we have forgotten as per the natural evolution of Internet culture.
>>7783008
The idea is is that if you have any sort of ideas about the world that you interpret off of experience, you're basing it off of how the world seems to. It looks this way when this happens, it smells this way when this happens, etc. I see this monitor changing when this happens and I allude to the presence of X to explain it.
But the fact is is that reality doesn't look like anything. It just is. And what is isn't identical to what it looks like.
>>7783799
Let's hope he does that too. We want to live by each other's happiness, not by each other's misery. Human beings are like that.
>>7783928
>Let's hope Bernie gives black people complete and total power over what the rest of America can do and say!
I support equality, but you're a cuck.
>>7783932
Whatever.
I don't believe in purpose, but I think that, at least for me, there are preferable ways of spending existence.I really want dedicate my life to delve into art, literature, music, meeting open-minded people and having fun, but presently I'm choked by superficiality and boredom to the point that when I walk in the street and get all consumerist-mindraped or when involuntarily have to spend times with people in my everday life and hear their stupid conversations, my head starts swirling and I feel like attacking them. I'm depressed, indecisive and lonely. My parents are deep under debts and I have nothing (they gave me hell as a kid so I care more about my consequential misfortunes from this) and I can't bear the thought that I'm going to have to work all day in a frustrating job to afford a worthless life.
I read Epictetus and Aurelius, and had a few days of somewhat peace until I exploded and felt unable to suppress my emotions and desires, and thought that there are things I just cannot accept, and have to respond to things in a certain way in order to remain a person and not a mindless robot.
So I guess I'll get some pills and end it or something, when I'm less afraid of death.
If you browse 4chan then you may have some purpose but no real purpose.
To live with a purpose and honour it as your real driving force then you have to go Kierkegaardian Knight of Faith type levels.
Below that, where essentially everyone is, there is some purpose but not one that is taken seriously. Also everyone who's below that i.e. everyone is in despair, so that's a shame
>>7783932
I know that couple personally. They adopted that child.
>>7783928
The history of humanity tells a different story
>>7782282
>don't become Pretentious Western Buddhist #1329.
>Actually go to Tibet or something.
Pick one.
>>7782191
I want to contribute to making the world more like pic related.
>>7782282
tibet is a tourist trap for pretentious western buddhists, if u want to learn buddhism go to a south east asian country, not some chinese backwater whose only industry is pushing a cult on western orientalists
>>7782191
Yes. I am a superhuman lion, I exert my power.
none at all
I make my way through life with memes waiting for death, getting drunk when I can, enjoying what I can, dodging pain as I can, hoping not to live too long.
we are all the washington generals
nope and by understanding this I can live life the way I want to.
thanks sartre
>>7782191
I used to look up to great rulers and my purpose was to be one of them, but now that party-politics and bureucracy reign, I realised I will at best just be another guy that was PM for 4 years, so I have given up on that too.
So no.
>>7782286
you should realize by now that this does nothing to explain (away) the actual concept of "life meaning"--simply to say "oh well the concept of meaning is a linguistic one thereby non-existent" is committing yourself a literally elementary-level chain of reasoning by which you think you can wave your hand and something is destroyed just because you have said something is created through language.
you're right, language shapes meaning. that means we have to contend with it. by writing what you have written, you are saying that there is a fundamental category of ALL THINGS WITH MEANING outside of language and the functions of language, and all things within language are just human constructions, therefore irreal. this is platonism 101, i thought we were past this?
>>take a vow of poverty
>>live the NEET life
>>read all the books
>>die, go to heaven and punch god in the dick
>>7784666
>wanting to be an emperor or some shit
>>7782191
Yes, it's quite easy to have one.
>>7782559
This one never read Aristotle good job
procreation
other than that no
>>7782191
only normies, hedonists have purposes.
>>7784825
>your purpose involves causing great harm
how does it feel to be a deluded psychopathic ape
>>7784015
you will appreciate equanimity and benevolence once you accept that you will always fail to achieve your fantasies.
>>7784827
an adult drew that comic
-women want to feel
-men want to be real
for men wanting to be real, to connect with the real, they can to it with respect:
-to nature (and then tell other men that they tamed nature)
-to other men
-to humans who are not men: women
the problem is that most men are impotent towards nature (it is really foolish to even think we can dominate it for more than a moment), towards other men, since men understands that other men are just as impotent as they are. It remains that men can prove that they exist with respect to women.
the good news is that women want to feel, to live their emotions. as they say.Men end up seeking the validation of their existence form the few women who choose to notice them. of course, sooner or later around their puberty, women discover that the best activity which entertain them is when they sleep with men who can entertain them in bed and outside of bed. this is why women are sexual and men are not.
>>7782249
I want to hug you
>>7784015
People who are often bored are just boring people, in my experience.
Every time I try to find one I come up blank. Short term purpose is to read as many books as I can and deal with loneliness.
Long term purpose: is there even a point to having one?
>>7784836
>adults
>drawing
>>7784877
an adult drew that yellow guy too
>>7784809
it's in my blood :)
>>7782944
It's has been already proven that you don't need neither sleeping nor eating to exist.
Man people really are attached to their opinions. Get rid of your ego and you'll see that everything is illusion as much as it is real. The universal conscious is borderless. If one needs empiric evidence to believe in something his mind has already been filled with shit.
/Lit/ should be reading the Kybalion and related stuff before even starting a threat like this. Occultism gives the answer to everything, too sad people don't read it.
I spend my days playing CK2, jerking off and pirating books I'll never read. No purpose here.
>>7782191
Still searching.
>>7782191
I know that's no purpose in this world therefore i'm engaging in sensory pleasure.
half of the arguments here are probably to do with differences in what people taking 'meaning' or 'purpose' to mean.
Putting a blanket saying all of life is meaningless can probably be argued for but needs a fair bit of backing to be nuanced enough to have anything to it
>>7783068
>fails to mention archetypes and the collective unconscious
>>7782191
No, but I keep looking for it.
>>7782191
to do things because i enjoy doing them and for no other reason
Only if there is meaning in unmeaning may we find true purpose.
>>7785126
>It's has been already proven that you don't need neither sleeping nor eating to exist.
wow. just fucking wow.
>>7784679
>we have to contend with it
If you want to contend with ghosts and demons you can. Or, you can realized that ghosts and demons don't really exist, and start to laugh over the fact that you ever worried about them to begin with.
>>7786312
rocks exist and they do neither
>>7786586
He wasn't talking about rocks. He was talking about people. hence the "you" statement. Stop taking things out of context.
>>7786601
People also do not need those things to exist, they just need them to be alive.
I don't have a purpose but I do struggle to find one
>>7786607
You can exist 30 days without food. 1 week or so without water. Congratulations on your short existence.
>>7782191
Well, it isn't answering your question, that's for sure.
i've wanted to make video games my whole life, now i think they're gay and stupid and i want to kill myself because i have no purpose without my aspiration to make games, and i feel like a fraud whenever i try to reinvent myself and take up a different artform/profession
make a piece of art
something which represent something
then I'll die
finally
>>7787885
why do u have to make the art
why not get laid instead
>>7787892
because I have to put myself in something
Like our body do with shit
then I finally can die
only after this
>>7787905
put yourself in a warm vagina my man
>>7787906
this works too
