Hi all, newfig to /lit/. I frequent /mu/ among other boards, and was wondering if you had an equivalent of the chart I have provided here.
Bumping myself because I want to engage in some literature
Start with the Greeks.
Read the sticky.
>>7767311
This.
if you want to post on /lit/ read the sticky and lurk for months before posting anything.
>>7767311
What makes you think he wants to start with philosophy?
>>7767328
Not all of it is philosophy, friend.
>>7767268
welcome to /lit/
>>7767268
If you really honestly care about literature then do yourself a favor and stay away from the memes for a whilte and start with the Greeks, compare a bunch of Humanities programs and read up to 19th century lit. Then come back and you won't be fooled by memes, it'd be like if you listened to Vivaldi up to now and then realize that The Money Store is an awful album, despite /mu making you think that it is.
If you don't care about literature, literary history, movements, style and really just want a crash course in what could give you talking points in a party or bar around similar aged people then just wait for a Chart thread to pop up and rattle some off but this is pretty much the equivalent >>7767841 but also keep in mind that even these aren't really talked about all that much in the young hip circles, Infinite Jest has certainly become really popular among college aged kids, Gravity's Rainbow is still pretty niche in the community of people in general, Lolita might be a popular one to go for.
Keep in mind every board has their memes and there's only a few dwellers who genuinely care about whatever the subject is and are willing to put the effort in, I've never been on /tv/ for more than 5 minutes but I've heard it's everyone talking about Homeland and The Tree of Life instead of Eisenstein and the Lumiere's.
>>7767268
Thanks for reminding me that /mu/ has shit taste, now lurk more.
>>7767841
Stop fucking posting this, you're not from here. Catch 22 shouldn't even be there.
wow are /mu/tants even worse than redditors?
>>7767268
THE STICKY
H
E
S
T
I
C
K
Y
>>7767268
look at all those "le super obscure elitist hipster" albums
not a single classical album
>>7767967
>stay away from the memes for a whilte and start with the Greeks
This.
go home mutant. you guys have the music taste of a fifteen year old
>>7768026
at least we listen to bloom and stick with the western canon of worthwhile literature, universally-acclaimed art.
/mu/ concerns itself with meme music, ephemeral hipster fodder with no discernible talent.
>>7768033
>Tao Lin.
>>7767967
>>7767311
>>7768030
Over on /mu/ we never recommend that people "Start with the Classics". Instead we jump right in to the modern world of music, and as a result we collectively have the most refined tastes in music known to the intenet, and society itself. By "refining" yourself to older works you consider "better" or "more influential", you're wasting time that could be spent experiencing the works of artists with better tools and ideas at their disposal.
>>7768013
You must be joking. I'm not that guy but Catch-22 is absolutely popular enough, funny enough, and accessible enough to belong there. Clearly you didn't like that book, that doesn't mean other people can't and shouldn't enjoy it, brah.
>>7768042
Tao Lin is consistently knocked down here
>look, I'm doing it nao
>>7768044
this
/lit/ is le wrong generashun youtubers
>>7768017
No. They're bad, mostly, but not nearly as bad.
>>7768017
Redditors are even worse, I once saw a thread made up entirely by people in their twenties defending Blink 182 as good music and sucking each other's dicks
>>7768045
You must be new to think people post about Catch 22 on /lit/, let alone in the same capacity that Gravity's Rainbow gets posted about. Lurk fucking more.
>>7767268
>trout mask replica
I know people bitch about In The Aeroplane Over The Sea, but trout mask replica is a million times worse.
>>7767967
Should I read the epic of Gilgamesh too?
>>7768044
Okay man, look as someone who helps bands with their tours, is friends with a bunch of important labels, and covers festivals both large and really contained, I can tell you that /mu/ does not have the most refined taste in music. It's people debating about whether or not Centipede Hz was good or not and threads of people shilling their emo bands (I know a lot of these bands who do this). /mu/ is a really small step away from pitchfork or noisey, there's nothing wrong with listening to contemporary music (you implied you listen to modern music which is much different than contemporary). There's a lot of great stuff going up on bandcamp and soundcloud everyday, which I'm happy about, people can get their music out quick, but don't think that because it's some New Zealand post-industrial group that has 30 listens its better than studying music sequentially. Tristan and Isolde is such a keystone to music, if you want to understand Brian Eno or William Basinski then you need to listen to classical music as well. This is not a wrong generation thing like >>7768060 thinks. In any field of Arts or the Humanities if you're ever expected to be taken seriously you need to have a fundamental knowledge of how contemporary media developed, for literature this means starting with the greeks or sumerians, for music this means understanding the history behind Gregorian chants and Vivaldi, for film this means watching early Edwin Porter or Griffith; you also need to be able to keep up with contemporary hits and obscurities, there's a lot of common ground to be found in popular literature like Chabon as well as there is in Grimes. Once again though it really just depends how genuinely interested you are, it seems like you just want to knock off the meme list and honestly that's fine. Just hoping you understand 4chan isn't the hub of valid scholarship you think it is, but really do yourself a favor if you're interested in things to actually go deep into it, study history, parallel movements, other forms, artists respective histories', read criticism surrounding albums (I'm not talking journalism, actual music scholarship, believe it or not there's a ton of stuff out there about King Crimson and every other meme band).
>>7768044
That's exactly why we have an objectively better taste than you. Classical music has aesthetic qualities simply not found in rock music.
>>7768102
>read criticism surrounding albums (I'm not talking journalism, actual music scholarship, believe it or not there's a ton of stuff out there about King Crimson and every other meme band)
Once I saw /mu/ took Pitchfork's opinions as gospel (about after 10 minutes browsing the board) I got the fuck out of there.
>>7768094
yes
>>7768094
that and the Bhagavad Gita
>>7768106
they don't.
>>7768094
I'm not trying to be a list-making authority by any means here (I'm>>7767967 and
>>7768102 ) Just in my personal opinion I'd say yes absolutely, the narrative itself is interesting as is but then the creature-feature type of aspect behind it makes it fun (the original Other), how biblical verse stemmed from it in the Flood and just overall narrative is really interesting. Not to mention how it's evolved into things like Roth's The Great American Novel or all the plays/films derived from it.
>>7768044
Id like to see Kanye West or Death Grips create something as beautiful as this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ehSS3bhB0
>>7768114
>as well as the Tibetan Book of the Dead, Egyptian Book of the Dead and The Upanishads
I don't think these are as necessary to get to right away for someone starting, though a case can be made for the Upanishads I think.
>>7767268
>kid a for the radiohead album
>not in rainbows or king of limbs
come on /mu/
>>7768060
>>7768093
>>7768102
>>7768103
>>7768115
twas but a meme my friends
>>7768044
Ok Mr. Smartman start with Heidegger and Derrida, we'll see how you do.
>Start with the greeks
It isn't a meme. I'm doing it now, and so many literary allusions and meanings will become clear to you.
Particularly important if you plan on not being a pleb-tier reader and taking this seriously. The classics prior to the ~50's contain far more necessity for understanding of Greek society in general.
>>7767967
>I've never been on /tv/ for more than 5 minutes but I've heard it's everyone talking about Homeland and The Tree of Life
Heh, it shows. /tv/ is nothing but memes about Batman, Star Wars and young girls. It doesn't even try to be patrician except possibly a little in things like hating capeshit, which is basically the equivalent of 'I hate Justin Bieber' or '50 Shades sux amirite?' It's an absolute desert.
>>7768116
music today has abandoned beauty friend
I Am from Europe and in my country 11-12 grade students in high school read literature all the time, if you want to get graduated you must write essay based on literature in final exam, you don't know what topic you going to get so you must know at least couple good authors and their books, and this is for minimum. I don't think you need start with the greeks in such a situation, so you can take best what 4chan can offer, memes. Start with the greeks is useless despite 4chan's decadent nature. Pic related.
>>7768465
Your speech pattern is reminiscent of Zizek.
>>7767311
what the fuck do the colors mean? A chart with no key???
>>7768260
knwoing? How am I to trust someone who doesn't proofread?
>>7768260
also fagles has questionable translation choices.
>>7768154
>liking King Of Plebs
come on yourself.
>>7768044
>as a result we collectively have the most refined tastes in music known to the intenet, and society itself.
This is absolutely pathetic.
>>7768013
I'll keep posting it. I love reading your reactions
>>7768044
Music is no where near similar to literature. We tell you to start with the Greeks so you can get a sense of the structure of literature to really understand and appreciate all literature throughout time. You don't need to listen to the Beatles to appreciate Arcade Fire. You should read Plato to appreciate Descartes. Also /mu/ has shit taste good stuff.
>>7769173
>the beatles and arcade fire deserve appreciation
Trollooolooo
>>7768044
It doesn't work quite the same with literature.
>>7768074
It's funny how you distinguish yourself from them but by how this board talks about it and completely defines a person by a website they might visit from time to time, you're a redditor.
>>7768074
>I once saw a thread
hello rebbit
>>7769219
you're right only Kanye and Thug do.
>>7768512
I'd figure that once you're at a level of comprehension which allows you to make those judgments, you won't be using a chart from some Iranian sheepskin forum to choose what to read next.
>>7768465
you'd better read up on local literature, teachers in Europe like if you act as if you adore the literature of your country (at least it ie like that in here)
>>7767841
Well, isn't that the most demotivating chart to get into literature.
>>7769420
My nation is small, has just 3 million inhabitants. From local literature it's around 3-4 books who would be on same level as /lit/ top 100, and like I said, we have introduction to many books in school so I out of considering read local literature. Since I study engineering, literature is nice hobby for me. Local people I know who study language here read local poetry and linguistic articles, that's not so much interesting for me.
>>7769652
Lithuania?
>>7769652
If you are really from Lithuania, I presume you are talking about people from Vilnius who are studying language. I'm in my last semester of English Philology in Vilnius University and it's far from studying only local poetry and linguistic articles, - after the 2nd year I chose only lit related courses and the quality you receive concerning the 19th and 20th c. lit is quite amazing.
>>7769432
the same could be said about the /mu/core chart as well
>>7768323
>le wrong generation amirite!!!!!!
here's a counterexample to your idiotic statement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AWIqXzvX-U
>>7770506
I mean, not exactly. I know who Aphex is man, and sure, there are strains in electronic and neo-classical and folk that seek to capture some effervescent transcendent beauty, but there are many counter-strains (e.g. Kanye, Death Grips, noise, rock, etc.) that, while still being entertaining or interesting, sonically, are not really, or I (nor would I think it very likely others would) wouldn't really call it such, 'beautiful.'
>>7770506
a bunch of slow simplistic notes with no real melody. You just confirmed music today is void of creativity and aesthetic value
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15ezpwCHtJs
>>7770516
disregarding popular music, there is more beautiful music being made today than there ever was.
>>7770534
listen to it more
>>7770536
good to hear! go back to /mu/ now please
>>7768026
>ITCOTCK
>Remain in Light
>not classics
>>7770501
Well they are both meme charts.
>>7770536
That's not true, there is more capacity for musicians to put out their work, but there is less capacity for musical creation than there was in the past, in the context of western popular music. The more communication the more difficult it is for musicians to be able to break out of the norm that is established by the canon of popular music.
God damn, people still think that a band must be composed by a singer, guitarist, bassist and drummer for the most part, why the hell would you think there is more beautiful music that there was years ago?
>>7767328
because basically the Greeks established western Culture and many of the subjects worked on in the past 2500 years have mostly derived from what they wrote. Start with the established canon is basically what it means, it will give you a broader sense of what it is we are today and were in the past.
>>7770534
>>7768323
I think that there is still beautiful music being made today, it is in different ways though.
There is no point redoing what has already been done and if you just want to hear stuff that is the same as what you already like, then of course you'll just continue to like old music.
There is nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it is far to say music is not as good if you never tried to get into the new styles of music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo9Hs4NkSkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPiNt5miW_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzDupYdobnU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFe-BYqSYtw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe0t0c4Ty8c
>>7767967
where can I find humanities programs online that have a syllabus and all the lectures available for free? Preferably something all encompassing.
>>7770619
I assume he's basing it on the sheer volume of music created. There's like 20 albums released a day or something.
>people still think that a band must be composed by a singer, guitarist, bassist and drummer for the most part
That's only true for rock and it's derivatives, which I would say only actually make up about half the serious bands out there.
>>7770661
What would be the others? The others even if they are using other instruments (and for the most part, even if they are not using them they are using electronic creations of the sounds of those instruments) continue obviously to follow the established rules of popular music. If you think otherwise feel free to show it.
>>7767841
Why is the /lit/ canon all old white dudes? We need some diversity around here
>>7770701
That canon was established by the European culture. It literally means nothing but the chosen most important works of that specific culture. Other cultures would establish different canons which would also probably lack in diversity.
>>7770651
thats not beautiful music thats garbage electronic made by """musicians""" who with no skill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWgOyIkOm2E
>>7768026
>Classical
>Album
Also, you're being more hipster than OP by thinking his taste is bad due solely to "hipster albums."
>>7770725
But since the majority of /lit/ is American, and America is inherently comprised of a vast amount of ethnicities, this canon is flawed and unable to provide the scope of vision that a diverse literary canon would offer. I'm not saying that every book needs to be SJW pandering but the great contributions to American lit by minorities should be represented in that they offer different (thougg, of course, not innately "better") perspectives
>>7770736
What?
Are you baiting or just stupid. Only two of those were electronic.
And how does being electronic make it any different. Composers write music that others will play. What difference does it make if it is being played by a person with robotic perfection or a computer.
If a composer uses a computer program like finale notepad to make music is it automatically shit?
>>7770762
>The Majority of /lit/ is American
[Citation needed] Also, fuck off. A case could be made that /lit/'s Canon doesn't have the right Dead, White dudes but instead more Plebeian choices.
>>7770762
America is an European culture, no matter how much they want to think otherwise. It's the dominant culture, the others are shot down in the streets like dogs, guess which one of those is establishing it?
>>7770701
there is no such thing as '/lit/ canon'
diversity as a goal is ridiculous
>>7770651
finally.
all that was literally just bait so someone would respond with shit like this
thanks
>>7770767
You are right, however, none of those songs has anything special or new about them, or even that goes against the rules of popular music.
>>7770762
This logic is so half assed and poorly thought out. You should feel at least a little bad for posting this.
>>7770802
99% of classical music is derivative
>reading
>2016
LE /MU/ ARMY HAS ARRIVED ! XD
>>7770889
You're fucking reading this post right now.
>reading
>2016
>>7767841
>catch 22
Every fucking time
>giving a shit about /mu/ shit
/mu/ people don't know anything about music. They don't know any theory. They just latch on to whatever is trendy.
If you come to /lit/, you'll notice after a while that there is a clear divide between people who actually read books, and people who just trendwhore whatever the recent shit is. It's the same thing, except /mu/ doesn't even really have the former. It's JUST the trendwhoring. At least on /lit/, people who read Stirner because everyone is saying >2014 >not reading Stirner might accidentally actually read something, and become better educated. /mu/ is just a bunch of fucking lemmings chasing after whatever shit is cresting the post-ironic wave.
/mu/ is a mass manifestation of the same phenomenon that makes your white nerd hipster internet friends think they like rap. They don't really like rap. On some level, they even know it. But they think they're cool-on-the-inside for so-ironically-it's-not-even-ironic-anymore "getting" rap. They take pride in forcing themselves to like it. When they listen to it, after deluding themselves into enjoying the small segments of it that are accidentally tolerable, like a homeless man becoming accustomed to sun-heated, rotten dumpster fruit, they are actually masturbating in a small corner of their subconscious to how hip they are. They indulge gay little fantasies about how 50 Cent would "get" that they "get" him, and be their friend. Or how the "smart" blacks would be so grateful that they understand that Urban Youth Culture is complex beneath its rough exterior.
/mu/ and /mu/-like subculture is just a coping mechanism for being a white beta wannabe-hipster faggot who isn't confident enough to simply go to /fa/ and dress like a queer, or being a boring late-teens chick who thinks she's deep and quirky because she types in lowercase, ironically uses texting abbreviations and the word "literally," and posts indie-mainstream garbage on her Tumblr. It's the most empty form of pretense.
>>7767268
>in the court of the crimson king is /mu/ core
I like that record, but I don't want to be associated with that filthy board. I'm deleting it right now
>>7770909
Buzzwords
The Post
>>7770910
Loveless and Kid A are two of the greatest pieces of modern art
>>7770909
>They don't really like rap
This is unbelievably false. Sure, most people on /mu/ get into whatever they're into because they're lemmings but that doesn't mean they don't actually like it. Most of the time when people say that kind of shit they're just projecting their own dislike of something onto it's fans.
>>7770919
>an Irish band people didn't know existed until recently and Radioheads contrarian choice
we are the girls and /mu/ is the fat kid
>>7770909
you're from /mu/ aren't u
>>7770919
those are two of the worst albums on that chart lol
>>7770909
>/mu/ people don't know anything about music. They don't know any theory. They just latch on to whatever is trendy.
I haven't been there in a while but from what I remember the only cohesive trend among them was that they hated pretty much every subculture associated with musical genres. It felt like every poster shat on everything except for one random genre that they were actually kind of into, so discussion of most genres was 99% shitposts and 1% actual in depth comparison of artists.
>>7770937
>>7770933
way too well-written to be from /mu/. This is a /lit/ tier shitpost.
>>7768017
we're bad, but not even close
>>7770655
The St. John's Syllabus is online, so are all the Deep Springs courses. I thought Yale or Harvard did self-guided seminars with videos of lectures and such, you might be able to find stuff on edX. Someone else here might be able to find good self-guided programs. Just compare a bunch of popular humanities programs: St. John's, Reed, Columbia, Yale, etc syllabuses and you'll get a good feel for what people are reading for the humanities.
>>7770910
1. it has been such for a long while
2. you're pathetic
>>7767268
Remove Pet Sounds and Kanye
Replace Kid A with OK Computer
Add Tidal (Fiona Apple) and Black Black (Chokebore)
>>7770960
literally, unironically, actually, seriously, reddit
>>7770951
Nobody who takes music seriously would want to associate themselves with /mu/
Patrician here. /mu/ for some reason ignores music of great aesthetic for distracting noises. Imagine if /lit/ ignored great books because they were only and only focused on new stuff like John Green. That is basically what /mu/ does but they go a step further and only listen to something if it has less than 100 listens on youtube.
Here is some genuinely good music courtesy of /lit/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XHjsxcmEjM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjF_40To1CQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEY9lmCZbIc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C68SkzGb6Ww
>>7770967
Not him, but deleting a good album because some faggots also like that album is pathetic.
>>7770960
>removing one of the best pop albums ever to be produced
>removing Ye's magnum opus
>replacing a 10/10 with a 9/10
>adding fiona apple over joanna
meme too hard
for all you who say good modern music isn't still being made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFptt7Cargc
>>7770970
You forgot the last step, in which they try to rationalize this with half assed claims of "artistic merit" that are totally devoid of any kind of music theory and then shit on anything remotely accessible.
>>7770960
This. Kanye simply isn't music and Radiohead was only good before they went weird and made an electronic album.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLAGR2TvQ5o
>>7770976
I wasn't validating that point in particular other than /mu/ being a shitty board
>>7770909
the focus on trendiness is just shitposting freindo, the actual type of people focused on that get scared off due to people making fun of their taste
basically >>7770938 except not quite that bad, it's more of a music-oriented cross between [s4s] shitposting, /lit/ superiority complexes, and a few /tv/ memes
ITT: people judging /mu/ based on their prejudes
I'll admit that we have a problem with all the waifutards and poptimists, but /mu/ is more than that.
for all you who say good modern music isn't still being made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzsuE5ugxf4
>>7770989
this desu senpai
/thread
>>7770984
>Karma Police
Never noticed, but almost sound like a waltz.
>>7770991
>had to listen to that nonstop everywhere because this country has a massive hard-on for football
pls no more, I think anybody would be fed up after the 20th time
>>7770984
>/lit/ in charge of taste in music
>before they went weird
>Kanye simply isn't music
Is /lit/ trying to meme me here
>>7771004
This is basically what it's like to see someone talk about a hobby you're interested in when they have no idea what they're talking about.
If /mu/ tried to talk about books /lit/ would react the way you are reacting.
>>7771011
yeah, pretty much
I read Ayn Rand's works nightly :^)
Why is le milk hotel aeroplane good?
It sounds dull af and the guy sings like an amateur
srs question.
>>7771018
It's not
>the guy sings like an amateur
/mu/ is full of teenage girls so they all like "le im singing bad on purpose" meme. The Mountain Goats and Neutral Milk Hotel are literally the same fucking band with the same fans.
>>7771018
It's not, it's terrible.
>>7771018
it's bretty gud indie rock, that's all
also mangum is actually really vocally capable, his voice is just fuggen weird
>>7771018
its the musical equivalent of a novel
>>7770984
Too bad they stole it.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22g0iw_the-beatles-sexy-sadie_music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r5YdQ2z4ng
>tfw studio version was not on youtube
>>7771018
I'm not from /mu/ but come on, judging the album just because the guy sings like an amateur? The album has an epic progressive narrative line about love, loss and death, Mangum's songwriting is fkin impeccable and his imagery is on par with the best surrealist stuff you can find. If you kill le meme, it is a great album, just spend an evening listening to it and paying attention what it has to tell, jesus christ, I thought /lit/ had at least a bit of attention span for art
>>7771029
what the fuck is this shit
>>7770970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R_XRuzWAzY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R_XRuzWAzY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R_XRuzWAzY
>>7771034
That makes it good writing, not good music.
>>7771029
>>7767328
everything is philosophy bro
>>7771018
Same reasons for any Joanna album. Some you have to have an acquired taste for, like their voices for one. I couldn't imagine that album without Jeff's voice, so I think his voice fits it perfectly. The lyricism is out of this world and you usually don't see anything of that caliber every day. Just listen to single sections of the composition of a song each time you listen. Beautifully composed on their own, but when they're put together, it creates a beautifully sad world that you're flying through right alongside the band.
"Two-headed boy,
She is all you need,
She will feed you,
Tomatoes, and radio wire,
And retire to sheets, safe and clean,
But don't hate her,
When she gets up to leave."
One of the most beautiful endings to an album I've ever heard. Memes aside, it's a great album, and it sounds like you went in with extremely high expectations due to it's meme status. Even if that's not the case, some albums take some time to "get". I didn't like it at first, and it took me around 4 listens over a period of months for me to finally understand it. Either way I hope you can enjoy it in some way.
>>7771029
A lot of songs use the same chord progressions. If you pay attention you start to really notice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V-b8QIYOpM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD6_QXwKesU
>>7771047
I was talking about songwriting which is far from just 'writing'. Mangum has the talent to control the story by using just an acoustic guitar and pretty gud melodies. You can only appreciate the lyrics for all I care, at least you are getting something out of it, just saying what he does with it melodically is a cool work of art.
>>7770974
>you think art has to be 'beautiful' to be good.
absolutely not.
>dfw you find you American Football and David Wallace grew up in the same county in Illinoise both releasing their great work in the late 90s
>>7771029
just like people steal from Homer
>>7770987
there are a quite a bit of these aren't there
>>7771018
I've listened to that album so many times and it's consistently one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.
Can we discuss actual works of art? This thread is getting on my nerves desu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U76loq-MttU
i swear im about even on about all boards, except the weird and porn ones and /b/. this board is no different from /mu/. the real patrician board is /diy/. they actually get shit done and learn how to spend their free time properly. you guys are no better than /mu/ with spouting bs.
seriously, go do something outside your damn bedroom you self entitled philosophical pricks
>>7771099
this, its lyrically poetic and emotionally backed with sincere vocals that are broken and rustic instruments that pair it so well
i just reread that and it sounded pretentious but fuck it, ill post it anyway. it is a great album
>>7771109
>>7771128
At this pace the star is going to turn into a penis
>>7771109
fuck your bad vibes man
>>7771109
/biz/ /diy/ /lit/ /hist/ and/sci/ are the patrician boards
>he's not a Renaissance man
>>7770701
because the best books are written by old white dudes
>>7770701
>We need some diversity around here
No we don't. Diversity of thought is the only good kind of diversity. The one you're referring to is inherently evil and discriminatory in nature.
>>7771129
Maybe your Penis is just star shaped.
>>7771202
>capital letter penis
Where is Freud when you need him?
>>7771162
>/lit/
>patrician
maybe in another world friend
>>7771216
t. fannyflustered /mu/tant
>>7771233
t. Image obsessed /lit/ poster
Only patrician boards are /an/ and /ck/
>>7768044
who cares dude its just art
>>7770762
>comprised of
Get out pleb.
>>7767311
>>7768029
>>7768260
>>7769173
Real talk: A lot of the plebs we have been telling "start with the Greeks." will soon require exit-level Greeks. I suggest /lit/ prepare itself.
Can we get an exit-level, "started with the Greeks" chart?
>>7771494
most people who claim they started with the greeks read the Iliad/Odyssey, read a bit of Mythology and skimmed through the Republic.
>>7771494
>Can we get an exit-level, "started with the Greeks" chart?
That's when you can tell Herodotus and Lucian apart. Scholarship hasn't even fully attained that level.
>>7771494
You...think they've listened
...and read...
the Greeks..?
>mfw
>>7767311
is there a full version of this? Like what to read from the greeks onwards until modern
>>7771891
http://sonic.net/~rteeter/grtbloom.html
>>7771494
Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Hippocrates, Galen, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, and Aristophanes are the necessary Greeks.
>>7767268
My diary desu
>>7772709
Your diary is a chart?
>>7771494
Do you mean a "post-greeks" list?
Seneca, Cicero? Then maybe some sagas?
>>7767268
Read the goddamn sticky.
>>7771494
>Post-Greeks
If you want an extremely tl/dr version, just so you can understand most western literature from that point onwards, then just read the Greeks, the Aenid, the Bible, Dante's Inferno, the Canterbury Tales, Paradise Lost, and the Complete works of William Shakespeare. That should cover you in most cases.
If you're actually serious about becomic well read, then Howard Bloom's Western Canon, lists virtually all of the essentials, broken down into
Pre-Greeks,
Ancient Greeks,
Hellenists,
Romans,
Medieval Lit,
Then once we hit the Renaissance, he starts subdividing eras by nationality, so:
French Lit/English Lit/Portugese Lit/Spanish Lit/German Lit/Italian Lit,
and you can work through those nations in any order, but each list must be sequential, unto itself.
After that he hits the 19th century, you can probably handle yourself from there.
Unfortunately, of all this, only the Greeks have ever been charted. I started a thread, with intent to chart the other lists in the canon, a while back, but regrettably it didn't go anywhere. Would like to try again, though, especially since /lit/ charts come with secondary sources that help you understand what you're reading, whereas Bloom just fucking lists original books endlessly.
>>7767841
i'd say this plus the stranger, minus catch 22. any given day those books will appear indirectly or directly as a subject of a thread.
kafka also gets a fair few posts here too
I love Frankenstein and listen to third wave ska and YOU CAN'T STOP ME
>>7768465
>tfw brazilian
I hate /mu/ so much and I've never even been there.
>>7773610
they are just a bunch of hipsters who cling to music simply because its obscure
>>7773610
You don't find that a bit unfair?
>>7773657
nah
>>7773631
Seems like you just described /lit/ as well
>>7773657
they don't listen to classical
nuff said
>>7774174
we don't listen to memes
try Jason Aldean's Old Boots New Dirt, it'll really open your eyes
Let me guess, you came from r/indieheads originally to look "hipster" and now you're moving to /lit/ to finish your pseudo-obscute intellectual image?
When did this cancer start? When will it end?
>>7774174
>they don't listen to classical
/lit/ should stop talking about things they don't understand or have any knowledge of.
Never mind I forgot where I was for a second
>>7774174
>muh classical
why do you guys think classical is the pinacle of music???
>>7774391
cause it is?
>>7774391
Becuase it is.
>>7774391
because rock music is cancer its literally the reddit of music
>>7774391
because music has objective qualities which make it great or not. The music /mu/ listens to has no technical skill.
>>7774440
Jazz and classical require technical skill my man.
/lit/, stop embarrassing yourselves
>>7774440
>because music has objective qualities
it doesn't and thinking that technical skill matters is the most reddit thing you can do.
>>7774400
>experimental is a genre
What other ones do you like, anon? Alternative?
>>7774456
>implying experimental/avant-garde isn't
/lit/, stop embarrassing yourselves. This is the same argument as to whether a band is post-rock or not. it is both a genre and an umbrella term.
>>7774447
>>7774448
>music is subjective guys
>your classical is just as good as my hip-hop
>wow you don't like MF Doom, let me ironically call you a pleb
>it can't be that you just don't like it because it is objectively good hip-hop
>you just don't like hip-hop
>wrongggg genreationnnn XXXDDDDD
>/mu/ logic
>>7774476
I countered your argument my man saying that /mu/ listens to jazz and classical and that both require skill. Why are you being an absolute madman and trying to meme me here
>/lit/
>"Radiohead was only good before they went weird and made an electronic album."
>talking about music
>>7774470
If you are experimenting you still have your fundaments somewhere. It's usual to specify which genre in particular you are experimenting upon (e.g. experimental rock, avant-garde metal) and not just leave the term hanging in the air like that, because it's meaningless. So, no, it's not a genre of its own, because lumping works that come from so many directions at once makes no sense. You, of all people here, should know this. It is an umbrella term, though.
Also, nobody had brought up post-rock here until you did, and honestly I don't think using it as an analogy for the point you are trying to argue for makes any sense.
>>7774400
Experimental music and postmodernist writing are both pure Shite.
Birds Frogs and Mosquitoes is pretty much the greatest piece of literary work I've ever read. You should give it a go if you can actually find a copy. I got lucky.
>>7774510
How does the analogy not make sense? Most would use GY!BE as the defining sound of "post-rock, but Slint is also labeled "post-rock" since it fits the definition of "post" in relation to music.
"Experimental" doesn't have to fit into a genre at all. Someone could release a full album's worth of songs of the person just banging drumsticks against a leather chair, but does that mean the fundamentals of jazz are there?
/mu/ doesn't act like it knows a shit's worth of anything about literature, /lit/ you gotta stop acting like you know music.
>>7767268
No. Our charts aren't full of trivial shit.
>>7774551
I don't know about postmodernist writing, but I find experimental music to be the most rewarding music. Just shows how subjective it is desu
>>7774566
>/mu/ doesn't act like it knows a shit's worth of anything about literature, /lit/ you gotta stop acting like you know music.
Except not everyone reads literature. I would not go on /fit/ because I'm not a body builder.
Most people listen to music and that is just about the only "qualification" you need to talk about music.
Just because everyone on /mu/ listen to the same shit does not mean they know anything about music.
You can circle jerk all day long about whatever hip new band, but it does not mean you "knows a shit's worth of anything" about music.
>>7774589
>stop talking about /mu/ if you've never been there. /mu/ is one big anti-circlejerk.
>>7774595
Alright, but my main point still stands.
>>7774589
From this thread I've surmised that /lit/ knows substantially less about music than they think they do.
Not everyone listens to music either family. We can run in circles about this, neither will be proven false
>>7774602
I'm not the guy you were originally reacting to, but I can't argue with your first point.
however, I think /lit/ highly underestimates /mu/. I'm getting the impression that you guys think /mu/ is full of rockist and poptimist and that classical is the only alternative. However, there are some /mu/tanst who know there shit when it comes to more 'experimental' music.I find it strange for a board with self acclaimed music taste, that /lit/ has yet to respond to this. (see >>7774484)
The average age on /mu/ in 16.
Remember the shitty, obnoxious opinions you had on music when you were 16?
>>7774629
/lit/ underestimates /mu/ because >>7768044 kicked off the music conversation.
When ever I think of musique concrete I think of Karlheinz Stockhausen and Iannis Xenakis (>inb4 not obscure so they are shit) and both of them seem to be more like classical composers than pop musicians (including rock hip-hop etc.).
As for the others; do you really think field recording and noise are the pinnacles of music? You think someone recording sounds in nature of some guy messing about with feedback is better than all classical music ever?
I might be over simplifying those genres, but really? You think that those are better than all other music?
If you really do, please explain your reasons. I can enjoy it on occasion, so don't tell me how it is enjoyable. I want to see reasoning for it being better.
>>7774718
sorry for the late reply, but it took me forever to find that .pdf back:
>When ever I think of musique concrete I think of Karlheinz Stockhausen and Iannis Xenakis (>inb4 not obscure so they are shit) and both of them seem to be more like classical composers than pop musicians (including rock hip-hop etc.).
yes, it is true that a few of the experimental genres I named have their roots in classical music. (Karlheinz Stockhausen and Iannis Xenakis are meme composers tho, but I guess you already know that)
>You think that those are better than all other music?
Not in a absolute way ofcourse, because music is subjective and its quality can't be measured objectively. On a personal level, however, I do enjoy noise, onkyo, field recording, etc the most. What I seek in music (and art in general) isn't beauty, but rather challenge & suprise. I want the music to stimulate me intellectually and make me wonder what it means for sound to be art. Field recording has for example has taught me to appreciate everyday sound by consertrated listening (does this sound pretentious? idc desu). I do enjoy classical & other froms of music tho, but merley as a form of entertainment I guess.
If you want to read more about it:
http://openscholar.purchase.edu/sites/default/files/lorraine_plourde/files/etm_52.2_lorraine_plourde_article.pdf
pmub
>>7767311
I really resent that dismissive summary of the Theban plays. They've had an incredible influence on global culture, and to dismiss them as 'plays about a guy who fucked his mom' has a bit of STEMlord superioirity about it,
>>7774824
Do you not see where the issue is?
/lit/ says classical is objectively the best type of music by any measurable values music has. (>>7774174)
/mu/ says that music's value is not based on measurable thing. (>>7774448)
That would leave you too believe all music is equal and it is all completely subjective.
/mu/ shits on /lit/ for liking classical>>7774391 >>7774195
You (it was you, right?) say that, or rather imply that, experimental music is the pinnacle of music.(>>7774400)
Then I ask you to justify that statement and you say that, while you personally enjoy experimental music more, music is subjective and you can't give any objective reasons for experimental music being better.
So it just goes full circle.
Either music is objective and classical is best, or music is subjective and all music is equal.
This is my issue with people from /mu/. They try to have it both ways. When it is time to shit on other's tastes, music is objective. Then when it is time to defend their own taste, music suddenly becomes subjective.
>>7775009
>You (it was you, right?) say that, or rather imply that, experimental music is the pinnacle of music.(>>7774400)
well, that wasn't me, so your whole point collapses.
but I'm glad you brought this up, because I think you're missing the point. Music taste has both subjective and objective elements at the same time. How you experience the music is subjective, so you can't judge the music itself. What you look for in music and why you listen to music however can be brought to word in a more subjective manner.
Music taste isn't about what you listen to, but how and why.
>>7774185
hey Op here, you're right
>>7775059
>muh conceptual scepticism
don't get me started senpai
>>7775064
'intersubjectivity' is a such a meme response but like, do it, tbqh.
>>7770701
>diversity
All hands on deck, bait sighted.
>>7775055
No, my whole point does not collapse. That guy was still from /mu/, so basically you are not a hypocrite but the patrician /mu/ squad here still is.
>How you experience the music is subjective, so you can't judge the music itself. What you look for in music and why you listen to music however can be brought to word in a more subjective manner.
Did you mean to say "brought to word in a more objective manner"?
>Music taste isn't about what you listen to, but how and why.
So if you listen to pop music on the radio for the static, then do you have good taste? If you hate nu metal, but listen to it for the guitar tone and cymbal hits and appreciate them on a textural level do you have good taste?
At this point I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand were you are coming from.
>>7775118
No one ever said classical was bad, so it kind of does fall through
>>7775102
>'intersubjectivity' is a such a meme response
damn, I fell for it. Not too familiar with /lit/ memes senpai
but no, I've already had a way too long discussion on /his/ about sceptism with a bunch of retards.
>>7775118
> "brought to word in a more objective manner"?
probably, I'm tired
>good taste
If you find that taste good or bad, depends on what you find to be respectable things to seek in art.
> the patrician /mu/ squad here still is.
true, but that's not all of my. I think you're still biased against /mu/. (I'll admit /mu/ is 65% cancer tho)
my main point still is to judge people based on their view on art, rather than the art object they like
it's 4:24 am here, so <3 from /mu/ and good night.
ps: I might actually start lurking on /lit/ from now on
>>7768116
they have. But only if you're emerged in modern culture. If you spend all day in your basement reading 200 year old novels and listening to century old classical music then modern music will just seem so foreign and out-of-touch with your lifestyle that it won't resonate whatsoever.
/lit/
>writes literature
>reads classical literature
>reads genre fiction sometimes and self-deprecates appropriately
/mu/
>can't write or play music
>listens to pop garbage
>listens to more pop garbage
>>7777489
more like
/lit/
>unable to understand the absurdity of the idea of objectivity and act elitist as a result
/mu/
>understands the absurdity of the idea of objectivity and acts elitist or anti-elitist as a joke with occasional good discussion of music, sometimes attracting people who take it too seriously
>>7777500
Calm down, spaz.
>>7777509
mate all I did was reply to that post, I'm p calm right now
>>7777523
>I'm p calm hth desu brb
Whoa. Too cool for school! Now I know you're calm. Only a relaxed chill guy could use Tumblr lingo from 2012 when pressured.
>>7777528
nah I'm just shitposting
also how else are you supposed to respond, I get it comes off that way but you really are taking posting on a subsection of a taiwanese knitting board too seriously tbqtbhqymfm
>>7767268
/mu/ is such a shitty fucking board oh my god
>>7777536
Yeah me too. I just wanted to be an asshole.
