>And make no mistake: irony tyrannizes us. The reason why our pervasive cultural irony is at once so powerful and so unsatisfying is that an ironist is impossible to pin down. All U.S. irony is based on an implicit "I don’t really mean what I’m saying." So what does irony as a cultural norm mean to say? That it’s impossible to mean what you say? That maybe it’s too bad it’s impossible, but wake up and smell the coffee already? Most likely, I think, today’s irony ends up saying: "How totally banal of you to ask what I really mean
was he right?
How many dicks can you dip in your cereal before it stops tasting good?
>>7736145
depends on the color of the dick
>>7736145
The more dicks in your cereal the better it tastes, you misogynist.
>>7736132
Shitposts aside, i think dfw makes a really good point here.
>>7736151
This, I like to know my cereal is experienced and has really "Been around the block"!
>>7736154
agreed
>>7736154
>agreeing with the bandanna man
>>7736132
>was he right?
no, the author of this quote didn't say why this is a bad thing. he just doesn't like it.
>All U.S. irony
As opposed to what? Are the different regional kinds of irony?
>>7736922
he's talking about a specific cultural attitude in America, and does not speak generally of the world, here.
>>7736132
i blame nietzsche. my experience with the ironic distance of americans (as a fucking american) has more to do with being as self conscious and meta as possible without explicitly displaying your self conscious ironic dialogue and so thus only those able to perceive this new level of conversation can partake and so those who cannot can be easily identified and excluded or made fun of or something condescending so as to give those in the former group an illusion of control. because life.
this shit is best friends with nihilism, or hedonism born from nihilism, and its essentially stemming from the almost complete adoption into the american psyche a misconstrued misapplied understanding of nietzsche and ze germanz. narcissism, drug/party culture, LMS, etc.
and now fucking memes are bleeding into the real unanonymous world
the irony is there because it became necessary
>>7736989
you're shit
you basically repeated the dfw quote with shit phrasing then jumped to nietzsche with no reasons given other than "best friends with a misreading" and then "memes"
SHIT
>>7737022
I'm betting he's about 17-19 and thinks he's very smart. The punctuation alone speaks volumes. Also, I can't take anyone who namedrops the Niet like that seriously.
how to into DFW famalam?
which order?
would it be safe to say that DFW is the terminus of grad school/ creative writing class writer movement? I find his novels incredibly boring; he strikes me as someone who lived a very boring life, all his quotes are boring. That's my criticism of him: it's somewhat instructive and boring. I think American writers have to kind of be like Rimbaud, I know I'm probably going to get knocked for this but I can tell the difference even with recluses, that Don Delillo and Tommy P. have experienced life and living history and the world. I'd say the same for writers considered shit-tier like Bukowski. DFW lounged around eating snacks, watching TV and attending/ lecturing at seminars. Did he have any adventures, other than the cruise ship? I mean, how else do you write a 1,000 page novel that centers around film theory, tennis and quebecois revolution?
I feel like I'm rambling because I can't pinpoint it down but there's such a lack of adventure and daringness in his work.
>>7736132
This only applies to people who are being ironic all the time, with no off brakes. Otherwise, people are usually being ironic when you're saying something dumb and they can't be bothered to correct you or if they're just trying to tell a joke, mister John Green, sir.
Did some newfags discovered the John Green meme and think it was the greatest thing in the world or something? I know we've always had these threads but I don't see why they are getting posted multiple times a day now.
>>7736989
I blame rich bourgeois American kids who went on European tours in the twenties and brought back Schoenberg and Picasso
I live post-ironically. Do away with intent of your words. Ironic, unironic, sarcastic or not, it doesn't matter. The world will present itself to people, and those people will respond.
>wah wah you're disingenuous or whatever
Why do you care? The only reason you care because you're insecure about being "played" or fucked with. Instead of taking the world at face value, you're constantly looking for some ulterior motive, and that's no way to live.
Saw this and could barely tell what the intention was (still not sure desu):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sgz_5iIRdg
>>7737549
meta-ironing
>>7736994
I agree, but please explicate
>>7737085
Why do you only put this requirement on American writers?
>>7736922
He's obviously speaking from his own experience, so it would be silly of him to generalise the world, the west or even the anglophone world.
>>7736166
>Agreeing with a decayed non-author whose biggest achievement was creating a Greatest Hits catalogue for literature with no discernible scale
>>7737085
Is this pasta?
>>7738311
his actual theory stuff will be around a lot longer than anything Dave Wallace wrote
>>7738329
[citation needed]
Did DFW grow to hate his TV interviews?
talking to charlie rose about avant-garde art and book tours is just about the most embarrassing thing I've seen a writer do
>>7737549
pretty sure it's a joke
>>7738345
Why
>>7736132
Irony as an organizing principle is a must in all aspects of life other than reading and writing. To dream otherwise makes you a simpleton or a psychopath
I hate to use the word "faggot" to describe someone but that's the only word that comes to mind when I see John Green.
>>7736132
>>7737063
watch 1/3 of pic related interview, read his wikipedia page, and call Infinite Jest overrated every time you see it posted on /lit/
>>7736154
Most of /lit/ would agree. Op is doing the old bait and switch meme trying to get us to say "wow John Greene is a retard for saying this because he's John Greene" so he can pop out and say "haha!! I meme'd you!! That's actually dfw!"
>>7737063
I think Consider the Lobster is a solid intro to Bandanaism, but I'm not actually that familiar with his work. I've only read that and IJ.
>>7738919
lol the old bait and switch bait and switch.
>>7736132
Yeah, he's right.
The problems with that essay are:
(1) He warns of the dangers of speaking about TV as if it is an autonomous, single entity at the start and then goes on to do just that.
(2) Everything he says about TV is a pretty gross generalisation. (I understand that an essay full of caveats and counterexamples to your own claims isn't as powerful though. He's forgiven.)
>>7736989
>and so thus
IN THE AURA
N
T
H
E
A
U
R
A
One thing you can say about the nineteenth century - they wrote in earnest. I can only assume they spoke the same way. Everything was am effortpost, and they loved to rattle on about higher nature and sublime wisdom in ways that sound creaky and old and a touch narcissistic today.
We're still in the shadow of the reaction against that way of thinking. It lost credence after European civilization turned into 41 years of meatgrinding brutality. But it's probably running on fumes at this point since the last of those generations are well into their depends and assisted living years.
>>7738909
Well said
>>7740094
goodpost
>>7737063
Brief, then Curious, then Broom, then IJ, then Supposedly, then whatever, and Pale King last, of course.
>>7737268
both of those are great you pleb
>>7740094
I was recently visited by some of my distant relatives from eastern Europe. They are pretty young.
There was no ironic expression from them at all, everything was earnest. I actually used to think that always-on superirony mode was a sign of intelligence.
>>7738905
>Bill's face
>>7736989
>so thus
>>7737085
>le literary lifestyle
Go suck Kerouac's dick somewhere else
>>7736132
>That it’s impossible to mean what you say?
It is impossible to say just what I mean.
-- J Alfred Prufrock.
Did you guys like this film?
>>7736166
Reminder that the only novel bloom has ever published was a fantasy fanfic.
>>7741247
and reminder that the book he wrote the fanfic for is absolutely amazing. To call it "fantasy" is not giving it enough credit - it's a journey of self-discovery.
I haven't read his fanfic, though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
Hahah; replied nelson hegel. Play safe kids.
>person a "ironically" says thing
>they actually believe this thing
>person b recognises an inaccuracy
>person a says they were just being ironic
the real problem here is that person a wants to be seen as knowing without actually knowing
in a culture where people want to be seen as something without putting in the effort to actually be that something, irony makes so much sense because it can be used as a shield for deflecting criticism
what emerges from this? person a begins to see opinions as instances, they see themselves as "not complete" and dismiss the criticism by deferring to their identity
>I think x, but I can't really defend x because i haven't read up on it as much... but if i did read up on it then i could easily defend it, because i'm actually intelligent
obviously the reading up never occurs, the ignorance is literally a necessary part of the delusion that person a is intelligent
and of course if anyone puts forward a decent rebuttal to this post it wont matter, since it's not the real me who posted it
