Whose fault do you think all the bad things that happened in Macbeth were? Was it the witches? Lady Macbeth? Or Macbeth himself? Or maybe a combination of them all?
The seed was always in Macbeth himself. The lesson here is not to surround yourself with people that stoke your bad tendencies and give bad advice.
Banquo.
>>7735738
Why Banquo?
>>7735764
I was going to meme hard on his existence being the impetus of Macbeth's lust for power. But I don't have enough coal for that right now.
>Probably just his foibles that foil Macbeth.
>Macbeth
Shakespeare's plebbiest play.
>>7735793
You shut upppp slut
>>7735793
Even in your memeing you are inept.
>>7735811
His "plebbiest" is R&J, which still is great. There are some lesser comedies you could label his "worst".
I know that it is a different play and all, but I might as well as state this in this thread seeing as it pertains to Shakespeare.
But anyways,Iago did nothing wrong.
>>7735890
Explain yourself, degenerate.
>>7735890Iago was a jealous faggot.
>>7735899
Okay, I admit I am being a bit inflammatory and exaggerating my point.
My argument is that Iago sure is a despicable figure, but he is no more abhorrent than any of the other actors. He just happens to be in the unfortunate position of being at the bottom of the poll. If you pay attention you quickly realize that all the character in the play work for their own interests, and are reworded by the system they live within.
Othello while in love with Desdemona, clearly has a dual end goal of power. And this desire for power and respect within society is placed higher than his love for Desdemona (this is shown by Othello beating her in front of the Venetian nobles). Desdemona also acts in defiance to gain independence from her father, using Othello as a tool to do so. Note that this isn’t a ‘feminist’ independence, she is perfectly willing to still play the game, just instead of being dominated by a father figure it is a husband. Cassio simply is happy to be a slave to Ortello so long as it suits him.
Now I’m not saying that the relationship between Othello and Desdemona wasn’t out of love. In fact they probably loved each other deeply, but it was not love alone that tied them together. Power and politics seeped into the relationship from its birth and eventually to its death. Who knows, maybe instead of politics being a poison in the relationship, love only happened because of the politics.
This is where the tragic case of Iago comes into play. He lusts for power(but doesn’t Othello lust for respect, Desdemona for independence, Cassio for prestige, Doge of Venice for control?) but he doesn’t have to tools to achieve his dreams. Iago is almost admirable due to the fact that he didn’t just sit down and take the slight that Othello threw down at him (promoting Cassio instead). He simply decided that he was done playing the game.
Thus I think the play is less a statement about racism or sexism, and more of a critique of nobility and the corruption of society. Iago isn’t as evil as as the standard ‘liberation’ critique paints him, because he is the only one who actually attempts true liberation. It is almost enduring.
Still, they are all hypocrites,Iago is just the most honest about his lusts
>>7735713
That's kinda the major theme in the play. Whether Macbeth is subject to or in control of his fate.
>>7735811
Honestly I just adore the "Full of scorpions is my mind" line.
>>7735713
It is good to remember that the play is largely interested in fate. The blameworthiness of any character is supposed to be ambiguous. The weïrd sisters are weïrd punning on the OE word: wyrd. As in the saying wyrd bith ful aræd. Shakespeare is flirting with this idea in the play. It's not as simple as asking who is to blame. The answer is likely no one.
>>7736023
The question of fate vs. free will is definitely ONE theme, but if we are going to pick one as the MAJOR theme, I would argue it is the dangers of being overly ambitious, or ambitious to the point of performing "evil" deeds. After all, the basis of tragedies is generally that the protagonist exhibits some tragic flaw, resulting in his downfall. This excessive ambition is Macbeth's tragic flaw. I do see your point, too, though. He is at least encouraged and possibly made to act the way he does by the weird sisters and Lady Macbeth, bringing us back to the question of free will. I just think the ambition is the central idea underlying every other theme, including the issue of free will, the problem of appearance vs. reality, etc.
>>7736004
My favorite thing about Iago is thinking that Shakespeare himself played him. Something I read from Orson Welles, maybe apocryphal. But it's just perfect that he would want that role.
>>7736004
Why are you spoonfeeding this homework thread?
>>7736123
You think posting Othello will help OP with his Macbeth homework?
>>7736123
Because talking about Shakespeare is fun
>>7735890
>tfw someone posts your pic
>tfw it's totally unrelated
Feels good
/lit/ - Homework
>>7735713
While this is probably your homework, the witches caused it though it manifested through free will.
>>7736004
There are actually two Iagos,the Iago that was first presented in the play who was the last to arrive on cyprus and the Iago that delivered Desdemona to heaven/cyprus, one is taken by the "storm" (twice as the "but a turk") and the other lives perpetually to continue the cycle.
bump from the depths
>>7736004
> anyone who wants something is as bad as someone who wants to murder people
>>7735820
R&J is the most patrician play
It's hated by fedoralords who are jealous of their peers
>R&J are mocking those dumb chads and staceys who fall "in love" after knowing each other for a day
>Who are Ferdinand and Miranda
>>7739977
>Homeo and Literally Who?liet
>more patrician than King Lear
>>7739977
>>R&J is the most patrician play
It's great, but, this is a stretch. Care to elaborate aside from chad memes?
>>7740031
Not him but R and J is not what people expect.
Though I would not say it is the most patricianR was more in love with his need for vengeance than his love for J, it was him that killed their future. Romeo carried the sin of the father and did not give it up when he had the choice. The tragedy is the tragedy of the past, the bound that R , the ever romantic, did not wish to free when give the choice. There is a progression of characters in his plays. Romeo stands to one side and Lear to another. Without characters like J and R the progression will be broken
>>7740031
No, it was a mostly facetious comment
In all seriousness, King Lear is probably his most patrician work
>>7737351
why do you like the Divine Comedy so much?
>>7736097
I was at a Q&A with a Shakespeare professor once and he said he didn't believe in the whole
"tragic flaw" thing, even though it's so ubiquitous when discussing Shakespeare. He said yes, Macbeth is ambitious, but it takes a lot of work on Lady Macbeth's part to nudge him into action. Same for Othello and Iago -- maybe Othello is insecure, which some people think is his flaw, but it's only after Iago jumps through hoops to convince him of Desdemona's ostensible infidelity that he decides to murder her. I thought it was an interesting point.
>>7735713
>Believes witches play fair.
>Brutally murders the benign Duncan
>Wouldn't enjoy being king if he were born to it, and didn't have to keep killing (sans officially sanctioned delegates to do if for him) to keep his crown, and head.
>Loses his overwhelming dread of annihilation only when it's too late to further delay it.
>Imagines causality as if acts obey what fate has preordained, so is a puppet of his own imagination, which misleads.
>He is everyman, insofar as men are not aesthetes, though capable of intenser feeling.
>You'd be an idiot not to fear him, a fool to hate him at any point along his dreadful way, and too much like him if you can't enjoy imagining what it's like to be him.
>Reading it sometimes makes me feel like I'm wrapped in Shakespeare's own cognizance, like a frail alien riding inside an invincible vessel, through dark lands.
>The play perturbs me almost not at all, but pleases me as an escape from life's lackluster contingencies.
>It's not the kind of thing one ranks between patrician and pleb, but responds to as a fruiting tree or clod.
>I never give much thought to his wife except in the diagrammatic sense, and that in itself is a happy thought, a start for pleasant dreams.
>>7740476
>>He is everyman, insofar as men are not aesthetes, though capable of intenser feeling.
what do you mean by this?
>>7735713
Whose 'fault'?
Whose fault was it that Antony lost at Actium? Cleopatra's?
>>7740410
idk. it's just pretty cool senpai.
>>7741663
Macbeth is not perceptive in the artist's way, which differs in degree enough to differ in kind from that of non-artists. It is, after all, a specialty, ordinary as artists are in other ways. Macbeth isn't ordinary in emotional intensity, which is what most sets him apart from those around him in the play. At least this is how I see it, since of the hundreds of otherwise sane people I've met and chatted up, few feel so much that their imaginations cross that line from fantasy to hallucination.
https://youtu.be/6l2CvKLV-aM
I would connect Macbeth's religion with this:
>The name Bethel begins to appear in theophorous name from the 7th century BC onward. Some, for example Porten (1969, p121), suspect it may be this god rather than the city of Bethel that is mentioned Jeremiah 48:13:
And Moab shall be ashamed of Chemosh, as the house of Israel was ashamed of Bethel their confidence.
Or to put it another way, the stone at Bethel which was named House-of-God was also a god in itself, a manifestation of the god Bethel.
>In the Phoenician mythology related by Sanchuniathon, one of the sons of Uranus was named Baetylus. The worship of baetyli was widespread in the Phoenician colonies, including Carthage, even after the adoption of Christianity, and was denounced by St. Augustine of Hippo.
It looks like Macbeth is essentially seeking to move northwest to take over part of the highlands in Cawdor.
Asimov doesn't tell us exactly how Celtic Christianity reasserted itself (after some three hundred years) in Duncan's court.
