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>believe in god
>suddenly have an idol
>suddenly have someone to 'serve'
>give me motivation to stop being lazy
>always have something to fall back on
Sorry if this sounds a little fedora, but how can I get myself to do this? Is there any former atheists here that have successfully changed their belief (like actually believing)? What books or lectures or whatever made you convert?
read Dostoevsky and take an art history class
>>7704982
another option is get addicted to heroin and then join NA/AA.
a third is simply pray, and try to be sincere about it. eventually poof! you have experienced God's presence. this is the best way
>>7704934
Read the bible, pray (even ironically), and read Dosto and Tolsto, attend masses
You might find yourself moved, and doing these things unironically within a few months.
Keep reading literature. Read books you may like written by authors who you know were Christians (I guess you are Western so Christianity is the first step). Try to guess how God is involved in his writting. Eventually you will understand them (in their belief) and, alleluyah, you will be a Christian (otherwise you will have understand them only in your atheistic aproach. Religion is a cultural thing, you either understand it or not; and the first case is called being a believer).
just get a hobby and friends
>wanting to delude yourself
for what purpose
You could just not
"Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."
>>7705002
I did this, felt spiritual after a while, reconciled my world view with the presence of a loving God, have never felt happier.
>>7704934
Just commit to truth. Seek it and speak to others who are seeking it. You'll grow faith this way.
>>7705150
You also might feel a pull from old friends who are not happy about your changes. I just went through this and it kind of proved that they were not real friends. Growth in this way unsettles people who are content in their misery.
>>7704934
>guys how do I delude myself?
I would suggest going to church every day, and their programs or whatever they have, and don't read any other books than the Bible. Keep doing it, and at some point you might have genuinely deluded yourself.
>>7705178
*tips fedora on a atomic level
>>7704934
This sounds less like you sincerely wish to believe and more like you need your father to fuck you in the ass for the sake of an aesthetic you're trying to cultivate t b h
>>7704934
It's not a choice. From what I've seen it comes out of complete and total crushing hopelessness and and almost manic desperation. It looks nothing like how you're conceptualize it.
It's agitated, fanatic and just as fragile.
dive into christian existentialism, anon
>>7705098
Einstein was an atheist, people love to post that quote though.
>>7704934
If you're trying to set out on a course of believing in God without any motivation beyond yourself, you're off on the complete wrong foot.
If you want a book suggestion you should read the Gospels (start with John), and you could try C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity.
I personally need to warn you though, setting out as you've displayed is bound to bring frustration and little fruit. But then again.. God only knows what may come of your quest, anon.
take the leap of faith, anon
>>7705521
Same Anon,
Sorry, I was perhaps too condescending. I had a personal experience with God that led to my conversion. I didn't convert all at once, I did not want to be a Christian, live like a Christian, support Christian ideals. It was like joining the group of socially-retarded kids that kept to themselves because no one else liked them. But, like I said, I had an encounter with God that I couldn't explain or explain away so I had to investigate and for once I didn't just turn to 4chan or the people around me. Since I had so much trouble even reconciling this experience to myself I did not even want to try to explain it to someone else.
One of the first books I read and one I suggest you read, perhaps even before any other non-Bible book is Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. It won't do you much good to endeavor to find or establish a relationship with God if your frame of reference is that you're on a journey of self-delusion. Read that book by William James, wiki who he is, and I think you'll find that there is something more solid than mass delusion in religion.
Beyond that, prayer Anon, prayer. Sincere prayer is always better than long prayer. Sincere means you can be mad, you can be frustrated, you can be tired, and anything else. But realize from the onset, if you're trying to find God, by definition you're pursuing the Creator and a 'being' that is omniscient, therefore go into prayer with sincerity because lying and flattery and any form of false posturing is a fool's task.
It can seem heavy, and in a real sense it is, but know that there's lots of room for mistakes and everything human. He has more compassion than you know. And I promise you, as an anon an unknown distance from you (ha), that it is life-changing in the best most fulfilling way when it begins to sink in and settle and you find God moving in your soul and in your life.
Like anon said
>>7705131
There's great happiness, but it's from within.
Like anon said
>>7705163
There will be trials. Count the cost.
Not a book, but for the first time in my life I actually tried to understand "faith," ie. believing in something with no proof.
I did it, and it worked (ie. my faith was answered.)
I've got to warn you though OP, it's not an end all of your problems. You'll still be the same lazy unmotivated person (I am!)
the distinction between believing and not believing is not that great desu
Proposition 14: Except God, no substance can be or be conceived.
Proposition 15: Whatever is, is in God, and nothing can be or be conceived without God.
Read Spinoza's Ethics
>>7705896
what is this, some update ontological argument?
>>7705904
its like, almost the opposite of the premise of the ontological argument, anon
>>7704982
cant tell if this was said in jest but honestly it's not a bad start.
>>7705517
he was not an athiest in the traditional sense of the word, more of a pantheist desu
>>7704934
I had like two moments like these, when i was nearly certain i will come back to church. First it was famous hell description from A Portrait of Artist... Second: ending of Purgatorio in Dante, when they were in Eden, purity narrator encountered and beautiful scenery made me pray to God for a first in a long time; it was so beautifull. So yes i think conversion by literature may be possible, i also think CL Lewis did it because of Tolkien books
>>7705592
care to share your methodology behind understanding faith?
>>7705607
please expand on this (literature recommendation perhaps)
What makes you choose one god over the other? How do you decide to be christian but not hindu or any other religion?
Reading all the ibrahamic religions, Christianity is the most vague in terms of guidance. I dont feel a sense of unity between any Christians because alot of major topics are opiniated to a point where it isnt even Christianity.
I started following a few islamic basic rules ect; keep a cup in the washroom to wash your penis when youre done, wipe with your left hand, shake hands and eat with your right.
I do these even though im not a muslim because I feel like I have a reason to do so, and its justified by means of etiquette and cleanliness
>>7706167
The God of the Bible is the true God, the only God that can speak to us on Earth through the holy spirit.
>>7706171
that's the point of christianity though, it deals with the idea that the human law is never the Law
if you follow the human law without a good heart, you will end becoming a monster
>>7704934
I just read a bunch of excerpts from Roman-era Christian scholars, then had discussions with people in /int/ with a Calvinist Dutchman and a couple of Catholics.
>>7706105
ah got it. thanks.
>>7706181
Thats what Christianity is in a sense: the ideal heart and the word of god should make man transcended the idea sin and all that.
One thing they didnt factor is that there is no universal moral guideline. People who refer to the bible as a moral compass are just looking at the bottom of the well, and all they see is reasoning for "their" morals. Christianity is broken in many ways because of this.
>>7704934
Personally, I'd rather start small. It's just unnerving with a god that can hear your every thought. I tend to have intrusive thoughts sometimes, so minor blasphemies and the years of purgatorio pile on.
Being part oriental I'd ideally want to just have something like a shrine to a river god where I can burn incense and pay hobos to chant and dance while I'm away. Should I travel to Greece and bath in the Asopus? Or have the western gods abandoned humanity for naval contemplation? They have gone without true worship for so long. They must be miserable wretches by now. Is this not the time to gain an audience?
My plan is thus:
Step 1: Meet demigod and become his or her student.
Step 2: Attain sage-like wisdom.
Step 3: Ascend celestial bureaucracy.
Step 4: Be content with what I have and not presume to challenge Heaven.
>>7706218
Paul broken christianity to make it a large human institution
There IS a universal moral guide, but it's corrupted along all history by almost every religion out there by teaching human laws
Zizek speaks about this in the Puppet and the Dwarf, but without his real intention (which is funny, how he tries to prove ideology and while doing it he receives wisdom to prove how other religions can't touch christianity on a existencial level)
>>7706259
but it isn't his real intention in the book*
>>7705607
heaven and hell are seperated by the thinest of lines
fundamentally it comes down to saying yes to all, which is a form of godly love, what joyce was alluding to in the last chapter of Ulysses, Molly Bloom's Soliloquy
>>7704934
Jesus seeks out sheep who have strayed.
So it follows that the fastest direct way to God is sin.
>>7706171
You have just independently discovered why Protestantism sucks and the Apostolic Catholic church is the barer of true Christianity
>>7706179
If I listen carefully, I can hear all sorts of things
>>7706311
I shouldn't have to say it, but don't listen to this.
>>7704934
>>7706311
He was probably trying to be funny, but listen to this. You can't make God appear to you whenever you want, right? He only ever appeared to prophets and saints. But you can make the devil, or a devil, appear. It's much easier and there's even extensive literature on the subject. If the devil is real then God is real. Prove the one exists, and the other will follow. I'm thinking about summoning a demon or spirit myself.
>>7706387
I have asked for the devil to show up to me, he never did. I guess that was because I wanted a sign that the supernatural existed. I ended up leaving church.
>>7706387
Why does everyone want to summon a demon? There are better things to be trying to do.
>>7706393
>asked devil to show up
>to prove the supernatural (ergo, God) is real.
>devil doesn't show up
>God isn't real
>leaves church
>devillaughing.gif
Do you even logic, apostate?
>>7704934
Reseach mindfulness
Read a few short introductions to it once you understand that you will come across the core technique that all religions from Scientology to Christianity use to achieve the best results.
>>7706435
The devil would be better off pretending to be Jesus or doing something like pretending to be an angel like Gabriel and tell that poster that Muhammad was right.
Any divine being who left the abstract and subjective would get converts or trigger apostacy like nothing the planet has ever witnessed
>>7706393
>god is supernatural
God created nature. God is the root of nature. God is the most natural thing that exists.
>>7706550
Yeah but unlike nature he only be understood in abstract terms or experianced in a way that can be replicated by religious and irreligious methods in a manner akin to how the drug user meets God during a trip
>>7706525
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he wasn't real.
>>7706616
Actually that was the worst trick given the human striving for meaning beyond the ego. Immitating Jesus when he spoke to Paul or the Arch Angle when he spoke to Muhammad would have been a far greater trick.
Lots of excellent posts in here.
I myself have been feeling pulled back to the faith lately. I'm torn between Orthodoxy (seems literally more "correct doctrine") and Catholicism (my parents are Catholic). In the meantime, however, I mostly read the Neoplatonists.
>>7706625
Get behind me, Satan!
>>7706657
Why do you love this board?
If you haven't read the gospels yet you should read them asap
>>7705522
Religious existentialism is only for those who cannot make their own values. Nietzsche, ironically enough, liked Christ. Christ essentially was the vision of the Ubermensch. A man who had risen beyond humanity and had the courage and force of will to reassess everything and to create his own values.
He only hated Christians, because they blindly followed Christ's laws and values instead of critically examining them and making their own.
>>7705098
protip: when you see 'Spinoza's god', this isn't actually god. Spinoza's god is like the ancient Hindu concept of the 'godhead', we are all living inside God. God has its rules and we discover them through inquiry. This how the many modern scientists who are quoted as 'Christians' conceive of divinity.
Though it would be a misinterpretation to call Einstein an atheist in the simplest sense, it is exponentially more stupid for theists who envision god as a cosmic skydaddy to claim Einstein as one of their own.
>>7706666
Because here there is the spectrum of God seeking people.
OP has not to worry, already God has struck the chord.
>>7706666
satan witnessed
>>7706646
its all good Im just a guardian angle sent here to galvanize your faith
>>7706735
brothers...
>guardian angle
>>7706825
Dont be so obtuse
>>7704934
I recommend as some others have, to read Dostoevsky; The Brothers Karamazov strengthened my faith more than any philosophical or holy text. Augustine, Kierkegaard, and Spinoza also contributed to the solidarity of my faith now.
I am genuinely curious as to why you guys have established yourselves as Christians; have any of you read up on Islam? I am a Muslim because the notion of the trinity is incomprehensible and because the Quran is literally a miracle. What text has survived over a millennia without being altered? How many versions of the bible are there? Is consistency not the most vital in a holy text? What is challenged in the Quran to try and augment or emulate the text and in nearly a millennium and a half, it has yet to be accomplished; is that not miraculous when you consider how no other text has survived in this manner?
How are you guys convinced that Jesus is the son of God and God simultaneously? The notion itself is a blasphemy as it is suggestive of polytheism. Is it not more comprehensible to regard Jesus as a prophet, not unlike Mohammad or Moses?
I am genuinely interested in your thoughts and hope that no offense is found in my questions.
>>7706890
>What is challenged in the Quran
Sorry I meant to say man is challenged...
>>7706890
The Quran doesnt even know that the Trinity doesn't include Mary...
>>7706930
What do you mean? It acknowledges it as it is believed by the Christians and also condemns it as a polytheistic belief. It is no different than the Hindu belief that Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva are all simultaneously individual and one as Brahman.
>>7705896
spinoza's "god" is totally irrelevant to the OP, he wants a sky wizard, Spinoza demolishes that belief.
>>7706972
I mean it misrepresents christian belief which is something you wont see in a divine book. Yeah they can rubbish the concept but the fact they stumble over such a simple point of Christian faith is kind of embarrassing
>>7706890
I am largely ignorant of your religion, but of course the general POV is that your religion is violent and condones the killing of non-believers as a way to please your god. Is this false, and if so why is it so prevalent? If it's true, why aren't you a jihadist? I don't mean to offend even though it's a difficult question. I ask because if I were to find myself believing these were the things God wanted me to do, then I would be in a terrible bind to do them lest I offend my God, no?
>>7707000
How is it misrepresented? It explicitly states that the Christians misunderstood and distorted the Truth in claiming that Jesus or the Holy Spirit were God. It is fundamental to the religion to maintain that God is one; the Holy Spirit and Jesus are creations of that one God, not avatars or aspects of Him. Is this 'stumbling' over the point because it seems to me clear enough to explain where the mistake was in their belief.
>>7706890
If we know that God is omnipresent and we know God is omnipotent: why could He not choose to dwell in a human form? Why could He not be fully God and fully man in the same instant. Not only this, but born-again believers have received the spirit of adoption and are called children of God. This is the strength upon which we may call out to Him as Abba, Father!
More to your point, the Triune Godhead is a mystery. This is where faith comes in and the people who need to get their t's crossed and i's dotted fall behind. It's a shallow man that thinks he can comprehend God.
>>7707025
The popular representation of Muslims is not of actual Muslims but those who have been led astray by leaders who take advantage of young individuals susceptible to misconception. In Islam, it is a sin to cut down a tree, life is valued above all else. It is said that to kill a man is tantamount to killing all of mankind; to exemplify the severity of act even if practiced once.
Murder is justified only in two cases: the killing of the murderer (it is said that it is better to let them live but to kill them will not be condemned as sin) or the oppressor who stifles man to such an extent that religious freedom cannot be practiced, but in this case too, it is better for the oppressed to escape and resort to Jihad only if escape is not feasible and the oppressor unrelenting.
>>7707030
>How is it misrepresented? It explicitly states that the Christians misunderstood and distorted the Truth in claiming that Jesus or the Holy Spirit were God.
It claims that Christians believed that Mary and Jesus were God along with the Father instead of the Holy Spirit. This just demonstrates an ignorance of Christian belief.
Its the theological equivalent of saying that all vikings wore horned helmets.
>>7704934
Read Dosto as someone else said.
Also, seriously look into Orthodox Christianity instead of Catholicism/Protestantism.
I guess you can take this with a grain of salt seeing as I'm saying this as a person born and raised with the Orthodox tradition. What I want to say is that although I was raised Orthodox I have also been exposed to Catholicism and various Protestant faiths. Ive been to Catholic sermons and Presbyterian ones as well and I don't quite have the words but they feel sort of plastic and fake, almost blank. They just don't compare, on a spiritual level, to the feeling I get to this day when I walk into my Cathedral. Often a feeling of relief, always a feeling of strong hope. The sort of hope thats so real its almost tangible. I only go to Church a few times a year, so maybe thats why, but every time I walk in I can almost reach out and grab a sense of purpose and stick it into my chest.
It's something else, anon.
>>7707035
I cannot answer your questions because I simply do not know, but in all accounts that God sent warnings to men or interacted with them (Moses, Lot, or Mohammed) He sent angels and there is no mention in the Quran--I have not read the entire Bible--of God assuming the form of man. Like I said, as to why this isn't done, I don't know, but that there is nothing save for the Christian account of Jesus to suggest that it has happened, leads me to assume that it doesn't. Why would he not have done so prior to Jesus with other prophets instead of sending angels or communicating indirectly through other means?
>>7704982
Have done this. No dice.
>>7704934
ware magnets on the right temple behind the ear they will stimulate the part of the brain responsible for religious experience, it works best in a sensory deprivation setting with out exact targeting or power you wont hallucinate but it may stimulate your brain enough to "feel the presence of god " in your life and lower any anxiety you may feel.
>>7707073
I don't know where you got that, but I've read it and am reading it presently: the Holy Spirit is mentioned as being an aspect of the trinity along with Jesus and the Father.
>>7707077
Nice palindrome post m8 those are rare.
Also I have to ask where you grew up and are you Russian/Ukrainian or something related?
>>7705574
Seconding this. A good starter for William James, at least on this subject, is his speech "Is Life Worth Living?"
>>7707143
>And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
5:116
>>7707090
Because everything that came before Jesus was a shadow of what was to come: the Christ. That it only happened once should not be a stumbling block because by the very nature of a perfect sacrifice for sin, it only needed to occur once.
And by saying that because only Christians say that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God then it leads you to believe it isn't true, one can argue in the same vein against any unique tenet of Islam for being believed only by Muslims, right? Again, not familiar enough with Islam to pick any one thing but if only Muslims believe it, it can't be true is not a sincere point.
>>7707077
Have you ever been to a Spirit-filled church a Charismatic church and not just the mainstream cookie-cutter ones? I have found Baptist and Formal churches to be as you said but when I was led to a spirit-led church, despite the first feelings of weirdness I persisted because there also was the awareness of the Presence of God.
>>7707077
>palindrome dubs
this is the truth
take this advice
>>7707160
The Quran I'm reading now expands on every almost every point and regarding the section you posted it is written:
'The worship of Mary, though repudiated by the Protestants, was widely spread in the earlier churches, both in the East and the West.'
This cannot be surprising as the pagan men of antiquity,before Christianity had become common among people, were likely to view anything that extended beyond the comprehensible as a deity.
>>7707181
Where do you live, anon?
I may know a good church if you ever want to just pop in and see for yourself.
>>7707193
NYC.
>>7707186
>he worship of Mary, though repudiated by the Protestants, was widely spread in the earlier churches, both in the East and the West.'
People may have 'prayed' to Mary like they did with saints but none of them considered Mary part of the Trinity, we have great records of the various heresies that were dealt with by the church
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies
Not one group was found which held Mary to be part of the Trinity.
You have got to read this book! Seriously, do yourself a fucking favour, the most insane fucking genius book ever written. It'll change your life!
The World Is A Stage! The world is like a giant play, written by and watched by God for His own personal entertainment. Just because there is a scientific explanation for everything, that doesn't mean there is no such thing as God. We are all God's toys, His playthings. God makes us build things, He has a few laughs, He watches us evolve. God is in complete control, but God is in control of people. God cannot make the human race act out of character, but He can create the characters that He needs to steer the human race in certain directions. God speaks to us all, I can teach you to listen to Him and to follow His plan for your life. This is the new religion for the 21st Century!
>>7704934
Watch Andrei Rublev
>>7707166
You make good points and I will admit that it is only because God as a single entity that is neither born nor that gives birth makes more sense to me than one that assumes the form of a man, it is only because of this that I remain Muslim. What appeals to you about Christianity?
>>7707271
Neither did Jesus begin His existence on the night of His birth. John 1:1-6 reads:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
followed by John 1:14-18
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
So we see here that Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God and always existed, just as God always existed, how can God be God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit? I don't know, anon. It's a mystery too great for me.
In 2 Corinthians 12:3-4 we see Paul writes (many say of himself):
And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
I bring this up to emphasize that there are things in heaven which cannot even be spoken on earth.
What appeals to me is that I have an actual relationship with God. I can talk to Him as I write this post and have confidence not only that He hears me, but that He loves me and cherishes our relationship. The writer of Hebrews says that we can enter the Holy of Holies with boldness and confidence because we are pure in the eyes of God, washed in the blood of Christ. I've been in a lot of dysfunctional situations, subcultures, and relationships. There's a lot of dysfunctional Christians even, yes. But a true believer, not a false confessor (as even I have been) but a person that is committed to God and to walking their salvation out through fear and trembling is a beautiful, beautiful friend. I've seen miracles, anon. I saw a woman with shot kidneys healed in Africa, I've met men who were completely apathetic to life and clinging to a bottle find the courage to stand up again and I've seen those same men break down into tears as they're prayed over because the Spirit of God moves upon them. I've had Jesus restore my family in a slow but unstoppable tide, I've seen Jesus restore my own personality and character and inner life from a place of hopelessness. I mean, this is all pretty personal stuff it isn't like I found this great big single secret I can share with the world to convince them. I love Jesus because it's personal with Him.
>>7707181
>Georgian, Ukrainian, Russian, Polish
Well there it is. Westerners can't just become Orthodox
>>7707200
Sorry anon, I'm actually not sure. I lived in Connecticut for a time and attended Valley Shore Assembly of God. It was a good church.
>>7707383
Thats ok bud, thanks anyway.
And here's my bible... Fuck...
>>7706890
Literally all the other qurans were burned anon.....
>>7704982
>tfw took a class on the gothic cathedral
>>7707367
I don't think thats true at all
>>7707362
>What appeals to me is that I have an actual relationship with God.
I appreciate your in-depth answer, truly. What appeals to you is exactly what appeals to me also brother; I would answer in the same way because we worship the same God. I do not have verses ready, but what the Christian is rebuked for in the Quran is that he, as you've shown in your sincere reply, attributes goodness not to the one God, but to Jesus as well and the Holy Spirit. What appeals with Islam is all gratitude, all love, all repentance, goes to one entity and from this one entity comes all that we know. I suppose you would answer that in praying to Jesus, you are praying to God, and if you understand them to be one then I can see how you would do that--there is only the emphasis, innumerably stated in the Quran, that we are not to attribute partners to God and the Christian's view of Christ is understood by many to be doing just that.
Also I have read that Mohammed was actually mentioned (not by name) as the 'comforter to come' in John 14:16. What do you think about that?
>>7707209
bumping for a response on this
>>7707510
The comforter to come is the Holy Spirit. in John 14:26-27 Jesus again says,
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
For a little more clarification as to when the Holy Spirit was delivered as promised, at the end of Luke in chapter 24 verses 45-49 we read Jesus telling His disciples:
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
He told them to stay in Jerusalem to be clothed with power from on high (the anointing of the Holy Spirit). Which we see happen in Acts 2:1-8 something like 10 days later,
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?
So that's what Jesus was talking about there.
I can only speak of Jesus because it is by the power of His name that I've seen people freed. Not even the Bible is worth a penny without knowing Jesus and the Holy Spirit. A church that has strayed from the Shepherd is lost.
I think I understand you, brother, and God knows your heart as He knows mine. I feel love for you, because I sense you really love God. And as it says in Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.
Therefore, the search performed in sincerity will never fail to produce fruit, and I trust in God's will for you.
>>7704989
Do the third option, and read some Pascal
Honestly I don't know that any of this would "covert" you, or whatever, but I love Christian theology so this is what I'd recommend for a deeper understanding of it. I'm going to recommend more modern day teachers and writers.
The book I would recommend up, and down, in my opinion possibly one of the most beautifully written pieces of Christian theology is The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning.
For a more pragmatic understanding of Christian belief I believe Tim Keller is one the best contemporary writers/teachers on the subject, as is N.T. Wright.
For an understanding of the bible I'd star with reading the gospels and romans along with sermons/commentaries. https://www.blueletterbible.org/study.cfm This is pretty good site for study material.
Honestly though I really highly recommend Ragamuffin Gospel just because I love it. I'll post a quote just because I like posting it when the opportunity strikes.
“The word itself, grace, has become trite and debased through misuse and overuse. It does not move us the way it moved our early Christian ancestors. In some European countries certain high ecclesiastical officials are still called “Your Grace.” Sportswriters spoke of Michael Jordan’s “easy grace,” while business mogul Donald Trump has been described as “lacking in grace.” A new perfume appears with “Grace” on the label, and a child’s report card is called a “disgrace.” The word has lost its raw, imaginative power. Fyodor Dostoyevsky caught the shock and scandal of the gospel of grace when he wrote: At the last Judgment Christ will say to us, “Come, you also! Come, drunkards! Come, weaklings! Come, children of shame!” And he will say to us: “Vile beings, you who are in the image of the beast and bear his mark, but come all the same, you as well.” And the wise and prudent will say, “Lord, why do you welcome them?” And he will say: “If I welcome them, you wise men, if I welcome them, you prudent men, it is because not one of them has ever been judged worthy.” And he will stretch out his arms, and we will fall at his feet, and we will cry out sobbing, and then we will understand all, we will understand the Gospel of grace! Lord, your Kingdom come! “ - Brennan Manning
At the end of the day, all those cliche questions that religious people have like "where did we come from" and "what is the point of living" ultimately cannot be answered completely by science, even though science gives very very good answers that come close.
>>7706890
this is top tier bait, are you muslim from arab descendence or you are just a UK hipster that is feeded by liberal bullshit?
lmao what a terrible thread, you're all wankers
>>7706577
God can be easily understood by understanding nature. Humanity is the abstraction that we need to learn to see out from within.
>>7708747
Arab descendant, pure of blood. I diverged for some time and regarded myself as agnostic before I came back to embrace Islam, as a child would after running away from home and returning to his mother after seeing what a perilous mistake he had made.
>>7708849
ah it's fine then, cheers ladmay jesus christ be with you
>>7706890
kill yourself irl you disgusting, smelly brown subhuman
>>7705011
>alleluyah
>>7704934
Have a good relationship with your father, realise religion is ancestor worship.
>>7709218
I wish a girl would say that to me.
Just get older. Everyone becomes devout with age. I don't know much but I know for a fact everyone deep in their heart loves and believes in God and the Dallas Cowboys.
>>7709607
Are you Hank Hill?
How can you make yourself believe in God?
That doesn't seem possible .
>>7704934
I grew up Catholic but never actually believed in God. Called myself an agnostic pretty much from the point of 13 onwards because I was trying to approach the debate from a purely scientific view and could find no evidence to support the existence or non-existence of God. Recently though I've come to realise that religion serves a societal purpose, and it may be beneficial even if it's not truthful. For that reason I'm considering reverting back to Catholicism.
>>7706666
Shoo shoo Satan.
You'll not have my soul this night.
>>7705163
Strange how I've never quite hung out with a person who would reject me because of my beliefs, but than again people find out I'm a Catholic in due time so I never connected with a person such as you describe.
>>7706641
Orthodoxy rejects platonic thought so if you want to keep the good of it Orthodoxy isn't for you.
>>7707457
Orthodoxy is very national and not very universal. It doesn't have inculturation and flexibility of Catholicism.
>>7709747
Role play isn't converting. If you are going to convert do it because you think it true and ignore everything else.
>>7704934
I'll list a number of books at random which had an impact on my faith and feel free to ask details about each:
Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe
Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky
Silence by Shusaku Endo
Jesus of Nazareth series by Joseph Ratzinger
Republic, Phaedo by Plato
Nichomacian Ethics by Aristotle
Confessions by Augustine
Aquinas in general
Sickness Onto Death by Kierkegaard
I've been raised a Catholic and never truly stopped being one so I had it easy, but these are the novels which largely made me stay one.
>>7709784
I know it's role play, but I just can't bring myself to believe in something that still seems irrational to me. I have nothing against genuinely religious people (I definitely prefer them to Reddit-tier atheists), but I've still not found any logical argument to convince me to believe in any particular god.
>>7709812
>I know it's role play, but I just can't bring myself to believe in something that still seems irrational to me.
Then don't. It's as simple as that.
>I have nothing against genuinely religious people (I definitely prefer them to Reddit-tier atheists), but I've still not found any logical argument to convince me to believe in any particular god.
Have you examined Aristotle, Aquinas as possibly Ratzinger and Feser for more modern arguments?
>>7709826
>Then don't. It's as simple as that.
Well privately I don't of course, but in the future I'd consider raising my children as religious even if I don't believe. At the very least I'd like to pretend to be religious so that I can argue with redditors who have read 'The God Delusion' once and think that they're some sort of superior intellectual.
>Have you examined Aristotle, Aquinas as possibly Ratzinger and Feser for more modern arguments?
No, unfortunately I don't have the time - I can barely find the time to read the books I enjoy so sifting through these heavier theological books isn't too appealing right now. I know I should be more concerned about one of the most important questions in human existence, but I'm too overworked and stressed to give it proper attention at the moment.
>>7709850
>Well privately I don't of course, but in the future I'd consider raising my children as religious even if I don't believe.
That's going to be impossible, at least I don't see how its supposed to work out. Unless your future wife were religious.
Speaking from personal experience, your kids will come to you with questions. And you simply won't have them and your facade won't keep up. It's not easy following Catholic teachings today, especially if you don't actually think them absolute.
>At the very least I'd like to pretend to be religious so that I can argue with redditors who have read 'The God Delusion' once and think that they're some sort of superior intellectual.
You probably need a new circle of acquaintances.
>No, unfortunately I don't have the time - I can barely find the time to read the books I enjoy so sifting through these heavier theological books isn't too appealing right now. I know I should be more concerned about one of the most important questions in human existence, but I'm too overworked and stressed to give it proper attention at the moment.
Find Peter Kreeft on Audiobook bay, he has solid introductory classes (narrated of course) on these subjects that are easy to follow and have decent reasoning and argumentation. I wouldn't call it great like the authors I previously listed, but this might be what your looking for. So Ethics, Platonic Tradition, Aquinas and Faith and Reason. It's around 6 hours each and can be listed to while multitasking.
