Half way through this.
Really enjoying it in parts. Also getting a little lost here and there. Who broke the little boys neck in the night? And why?
Also anything else I may have missed?
>Who broke the little boys neck in the night? And why?
The judge, because that's what he is.
>>7587281
The judge of whether people should live or die?
>>7587303
No, I mean that he is what he did to the boy. You'll understand by the end of the book.
>>7587303
Ah lad, hush now. The man'll hear ye. He's ears like a fox.
Is The Judge satan?
>>7588719
nah. he's just a really fucked up human being. he explains more about himself when it gets to the late middle. starts preaching about who man's role in the universe is and how the whole gang is justified for what they're doing.
>>7588719
I think he's bigger than Satan. I think he's the personification of warfare - someone really big, intelligent, strong enough, and cruel enough to win any fight.
OP, don't worry about missing the little details. I first read Blood Meridian in college years ago but I don't feel like I'm done with the book if you know what I mean. I still think about it from time to time.
>>7588791
Ive read it twice, the second time around secured it as one of the best things ive ever read
>>7588736
>human being
>>7588719
No, he's the feels guy
I read this in another thread, but did you guys realise that the judge is bald because that makes him unscalpable?
>>7588719
>>7588791
>>7588736
He's most likely meant to be a gnostic archon. Gnosticism is an archaic religion that was still practiced at the time of Blood Meridian, and McCarthy makes repeated references to Gnosticism throughout the book. Archons are demigods who trapped the human spirit in an evil, physical realm which they created. The Archons strive to prevent humans from transcending this world by withholding knowledge from them. That's why the judge collects and destroys knowledge, and encourages the gang to partake in more and more bloodshed. There's a lot more connections than that, but I don't want to post a wall of text.
http://peter-mclachlin.livejournal.com/115239.html
>>7589766
>>7589677
He says that he will never die
>>7588791
arguably satan is the personification of warfare, depending on how broadly you define warfare -- conflict, discord, etc.
>>7589677
why couldn't you scalp a bald person? would just be a lot messier without hair to grip.
>>7590816
you're being autistic
>>7590834
No. I believe he's right.
>>7587240
This sounds like a homework question. How could you not know if you actually read it?
>>7589766
>numerical estimations in the book often show up as "seven or eight", "seven, eight", etc.
>in Gnosticism, the seventh realm in the cosmological spheres is that of the corrupted demiurge and his archons, while the eighth (7+1), super-celestial realm is home to God/the One
>in a scene subtitled "The ogdoad" (a Gnostic term for the eighth/God's realm), the Judge kicks away one of eight skulls in a ring, reducing them to seven
>the Judge is 7 ft. tall
>mfw the Man and the Judge have their final confrontation in the year 1878
>>7591121
You'd still have the scalp.
>>7591123
Sure, but it would not recognizable as such, rendering the scalping pointless.
>>7587240
Read Suttree next
>>7591140
Not necessarily. It was whites that turned in scalps for bounties. For Indians it was more ritualistic, and not just about having a trophy.
>>7590854
sometimes I wonder how much stuff like this I'm missing when i read.
>>7590511
I want to get that passage tattoed on my skin
>>7589766
>>7590802
The Judge's character has allusions to a whole lot of different mythological and literary bringers of disquiet. The part at the end where he dances and plays the flute at the end is very reminiscent of a number of Hindu figures, for example. He's not a direct representation of any of the figures he alludes to, he's another version of the literary archetype.
I've got a whole lot of ideas about how the kid reflects the reader in blood meridian and how the book is supposed to represent a bildungsroman for the reader rather than the character, but I'm too much of a greasy philistine to fully understand what's going on.
>>7591723
I agree completely, and have thought about this before. The book sets you up for a moral confrontation between the Kid and the Judge. We don't really ever know what the Kid is thinking until he speaks with the Judge at the end, and courageously argues against his nihilistic philosophy. The Judge killing him is the "loss of innocence" moment, when the reader realizes that nobody is safe from the Judge.
This could be a good essay
>>7591227
the point is that a scalp with no hair on it could be any old piece of skin. You need the hair to prove it even is a scalp.
>>7592017
still smells like bullshit pal
>>7592029
It's not hard to understand you stubborn pleb
Why did the kid not shoot him?
>>7592074
He says he will never die.
>>7589766
>>7589677
>>7589540
>>7589169
>>7588791
>>7588719
I always found the Judge to be more compelling when done away with the gnostic subtext. What if he is a man? He says it himself, he is a suzerain. A ruler when there are other rulers. He is not unique. There are more like him. There always were, and there always will be. He will never die, he will never die...
Threads like this make me want to make a good version of the /lit/ wiki. Like, one that archives particularly good analyses from anons and actually says something insightful about the various works we discuss.
>>7592078
Well, I think the point is that he only has power when people (or any creature) participate in his game. In the Gnostic sense, their constant desiring perpetuates the system of war and suffering which entraps them. He feeds off Glanton's pretentions to superiority for example, but the Kid resists him by preferring not to play. By fighting him, as if he were any other villain, you only feed right into his game. This is why it's important that the Kid refuses to exploit the chance to take cheap shots at him when given. He is inherently embodied in all living things, he's not just some particularly evil person or the potential for it in us.
>>7592078
He literally teleports and can exist indefinatley in the middle of a desert with no food or water.
>>7592322
Yeah that makes sense, but then what is the last scene meant to represent with the kid being grabbed up? The kid chose not to play yet he is presumably murdered/raped/consumed?
>>7592440
And he doesn't age
>>7592446
I think the Judge wanted the Kid to be a loyal disciple, in a kind of father-son relationship. He didn't want to simply kill him immediately for being rebellious, because he recognized some potential for strength, to be played out in the game. Being the Judge's son-figure, killing him by his own hands would also violate the whole cyclical patrimonial struggle fundamental to nature and the Judge's game. He wanted the Kid to shoot at him in the desert, as an expression of willing participation in this struggle. However, my interpretation is that when the Man killed Elrod, he violated the cycle by euthanizing his own son-figure (with a kind of regretful mercy), and this was a final, damning affront to the Judge. I would say the Man won, in some way, by forcing the Judge to finally acknowledge and accept the Man's stubborn resistance, that the Man's will couldn't be twisted, and so the Judge commits the same counter-cyclical filicide, killing his son-figure. The Judge is judge of adherence to his game, and here he was forced to recognize some will outside his own, outside the game.
>>7592541
Your theory makes a lot of sense but why then was the judge doing the dancing at the end, it seemed like it was a victory in his eyes?
>>7592575
I would say because in the end, he's a liar with pretensions to superiority that surpass anyone else's. He's an insane, paranoid infant. There are moments in the book where you perhaps see him frustrated and almost confused. I feel he senses something outside his will, the "divine spark" if you like, beyond his grasp, but seeks to deny and eradicate it. He'll always resume the same false air of supreme confidence and insist on his all-embracing eternity, because that's his nature.
just finished it and I gotta say, very cool book. reading thru this thread it seems that I missed a bunch of little details, but I enjoyed the imagery of the book and the writing was beautiful. I'm excited to reread it come summer time.
>dat final scene
>>7592013
He may take the kid, but he does not take the man.
>>7592074
It is a spiritual war. The kid dies, the man lives.
>>7592440
That's just a story told to the kid.
>>7592446
The rape MEME is really silly. The kid didn't take shit from anyone. I believe it is symbolic, the kid being you, me, Cormac, Samuel Chamberlain, Luke Skywalker, whatever.
Reading this too for the first time. It's great, etc.
How do you read the chapter heading brief (or whateverthefuck that's called at the beginning of each chapter)? I try to skip it, it ruins the suspense of the chapter. But it's intentional, of course, so should I read that shit or not?
This book was boring desu. Should I give it another chance?
>>7594744
>reading for enjoyment
sure is reddit in here
>>7594752
what do you read them for? "Knowledge"?
I read books for knowledge too but when they're fuck boring I'm not really interested in all they have to offer.
>>7588719
He is the lacanian notion of the capital Other, the terrifying manifestation of the subconcious. He does not pertend his actions as the work of God and he never justifies it. His actions don't require explanation because his motivations do not get processed in the symbolic and imaginary, they constitute directly in the real
The book is about human nature and the judge is a literal vessel for the most savage and primal desires one can have
>>7592440
Literally nothing the judge does in the book is explicitly supernatural. McCarthy heavy-handedly points out to you that his tricks may just be tricks in the scene with the coin.
>>7593691
>The rape MEME is really silly.
Really don't think it's much of a meme. It's a conjecture that has a decent amount of supporting evidence.
>>7594752
Yes, one should read as a form of self-flagellation only
>>7592592
>There are moments in the book where you perhaps see him frustrated and almost confused.
Provide examples, because I don't recall anything like this
>>7590838
then you're autistic too
>>7594857
What immediately comes to mind is his showdown in the desert with the Kid and Tobin, when he starts citing legal cases and property laws against the Kid, like he's shortcircuited or something. And the entire jail scene following this, where his accusatory tone seemed paranoid. He's obviously a megalomanic throughout the story and sometimes it comes off as insecure. Another example might be when he's questioning the Kid and Toadvine about the veteran/Grannyrat's disappearance.
>>7591227
indians also sold scalps bruh
