What are some (good) novels or short stories that have characters who become aware of the fact that they're in book?
What about novels or short stories that involve experimental interactions between character(s) and author?
Are there books that execute this well? It seems like it can get masturbatory pretty quickly
google meta literature
the recommendations you'd get here'd be no different than a ones you'd find on google or wikipediathe concept works better in films desu
>>7531863
At Swim-Two-Birds
not exactly what you're looking for, but If on a winter's night a traveler by Calvino is extremely meta and playful without being masturbatory
I'm so meta, even this acronym
>>7531948
so old.
Don Quixote was the first book to attempt this. And the best attempt so far. Especially the beginning of Part 2, when Don Quixote reflects on the fact that he is in a novel. Fucking brilliant, mate.
doesnt a vonnegut novel do that? Breakfast of champions i believe
>>7532425
Moreso the writer becomes aware and telegraphs his intentions
"I made him walk over there"
But yeah still really good, I read it very early on but it was an eye opener back then
>>7531863
>I am become JPEG, destroyer of images
bump for meta fiction thread
I personally love the novel "The Mist" by Unamuno. Had a lot of influence on people like Luigi Pirandello, whose most famous play "Six characters in search of an author" is pretty good too.
Don Quixote is great too, of course.
invitation to a beheading doesn't do it overtly but if you're not dense you'll like what it's doing
Meta literature is awful. Meta film/vidya are way better.
I guess if you took the characters from, say, Undertale and put them in a novel, it'd work fine, but the problem is that UT's writing when it comes to characters and the meta aspect is incredibly lazy and therefore would not transition well into a medium that's quality revolves greatly around the effort put into writing.
For example, the two only(?) characters in the aforementioned game resolve their issue of everlasting boredom and repetitivity with
a) Becoming max stirner and realizing it doesn't matter anymore when at any point, at any time, it could all be reset
or
b) becoming so fucking bored that the only interesting person to them is the player character due to how unpredictable and dynamic they are with their actions, seeing as it can't unwillingly be repeated.
This may sound unique and is done well for the most part, but the problem comes in that absolutely anybody could write characters like this, it's especially a problem when these are the only two characters with /any semblance of depth/. Everyone else is just a parody of cliche.
So you might ask me "Why is this good?" Short answer, "Because it's a videogame." Longer answer, "Because undertale is an interactive medium where one of the points being made within the game include the fact that videogames are repetitive and only offer a singular experience before you can ultimately predict what someone else does. A character in a videogame makes a choice, and it's just that. The same could be said in literature, but literature is less predictable because you don't have a choice in literature. When you kill someone in a videogame, the obvious result is their family would be sad. You don't choose to kill someone in literature."
In addition to that, film and vidya have more tools at their disposal to create quality work.
>>7534999
The interactive fiction game Endless, Nameless by Adam Cadre does this a million times better and is actually well-written
>>7531863
Pretty entry-level but great: Sophie's World.
And there's Animal Man by Grant Morrison, but that's a comic book - if you like 'em, check it out.
>>7535007
That may be so, but let me ask you how many people have both played and participated in intellectual discussion of Endless, Nameless, versus the amount of people who have played and participated in intellectual discussion of Undertale?
For all that it's worth, Undertale inspired a number of youth to think more critically and deeply about fiction. Regardless if that may not be the case of the majority, it's still done moreso than most other videogames released.
>>7535017
In addition to that, Endless, Nameless is incredibly unappealing and outdated to the vast majority of people. The purpose of art in which you are trying to convince the audience of something becomes worthless when nobody indulges in it.
>>7535039
>>7535043
And you propose that we play Endless, Nameless instead? A black and white text-based adventure game that requires a decent amount of trial and error just to play the game, versus an interactive RPG with lovable (albeit unlikable and cliche'd) character's with fair, challenging gameplay? If you believe utilitarian theories of art are idiotic, then that's fine, I personally disagree but you shouldn't argue whether a game, film, or novel convinces the audience of one thing or another more effectively than the other, and you definitely shouldn't argue which is more "fun."
>>7535054
Pretty clear you didn't even play the game, since there are more colors than black and white ;)
>>7535063
It's essentially black and white, flavor text with different coloured fonts, menu options, etcetera don't necessarily make it any less black and white when 90% of the screen is black backround white text.
>>7535068
I just want to talk about the game, actually, which is the only reason I brought it up. Have you played, did you enjoy it, etc?
>>7535073
In all honestly, I have not played it to completion. I downloaded it just to see if I thought it'd be fantastic and I definitely have it on my backlog for now, I just know that text adventure games are not going to appeal or convince a mass of anything, and chances are it's not really going to appeal to anyone because it's a non-videogame and most /lit/ readers don't enjoy interactive /lit/. And because I believe utilitarian art is the highest form of art next to beauty, I find that if you're able to both produce and execute art that convinces the audience to think critically, then it's good art. That being said, I'll definitely get to reading this potentially fantastic "game."
>>7534999
Which ones of the books mentioned in this thread have you read and why do you believe they are awful?
>>7535083
It seems absurd to me to expect particularly effective utilitarian art even to exist. Do you really think Undertale led or will lead to even a single person producing anything of intellectual value when they wouldn't have otherwise? Personally, I doubt it.
Automated Alice, Breakfast of Champions, House of Leaves and some of Borges' stuff.
>>7531863
Beckett's trilogy
>>7535101
you reminded me of this borges actually
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poem/243616
>in some way you are already dead
>yfw borges was E D G Y as fuck
>>7534973
Came here to post Unamuno's book.
