Herodotus' The Histories is one of the most books I've ever read. While being a mixed bag including laborious descriptions of cultural practices, the stories and events recorded in The Histories are some of the most engaging I've never read.
But Thucydides has been a drag from start to finish. The speeches are incredible, but other than that, there's very little enjoyable or interesting about History of the Peloponnesian War.
If you've read Thucydides, what did you enjoy about him? Did you also Herodotus too? If so, more or less?
>one of the most books I've ever read
>the most books I've
>most books
It is the most book of all books.
>>7495386
It's political philosophy with a focus on trying to determine what can be learned from the events of the war between Athens and Sparta--it's not really supposed to be entertaining, but strictly educational and philosophical.
From what I read Thucy is notoriously hard to read. That's why I asked for the Landmark edition for Christmas. It's got pictures and shit.
/lit/ always told me Thucy was easy and interesting to read.
Should I read Herodotus or Thucydides first?
I'm biased because I study historical methodology basically for a living (or I'm trying to), but I love Thucydides because he's so crunchy and hard to read. It's hardcore detailed military and diplomatic history. That stuff is hard to read even today. I had to do a book review recently on the diplomatics of some absolutist court, written in the 90s, and I wanted to pull my eyes out. It was 300 straight pages of girly gossip. Thucydides was a breeze by comparison.
But that's what makes it kind of fun. It's a different style. Herodotus is definitely more my thing since he's got the whole intuitive ethnologist/sociologist-before-those-were-things going for him, but Thucydides' beauty is behind the scenes in the critical detail.
Try reading along with this as if you're in the course:
http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/clcv-205/lecture-17
http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/clcv-205/lecture-18
http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/clcv-205/lecture-19
http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/clcv-205/lecture-20
You can see the readings on the side - one set for the first two lectures, another for the second two. Basically just Thucydides, Plutarch, and a standard survey textbook. Kagan also has I think the current standard secondary book on the war, just called The Peloponnesian War, and a few others.
Also very helpful if you want to go even more in-depth is this:
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/peloponnesian-war.html
Should be able to find a torrent pretty easily. Gety video for sure. It's basically a documentary play-by-play of the war. Oddly enough designed and presented by Kagan's (the guy from the above links) doctoral student.
>>7496518
The Landmark Herodotus is not so necessary because, well, how many times do you have to google Lycia or the Halys before you basically know where it is? But for Thucydides it's just incredibly convenient, especially when he gets into the nitty gritty of describing campaigns in very obscure locations or in extreme local detail.
>>749607
Herodotus by a wide margin. But give both a shot and see how you feel. Right off the bat you can make some interesting comparisons: Herodotus begins by trying to explain the Trojan mythic cycle in historical terms, and Thucydides begins by saying all the old stories are crocks of shit. Herodotus begins by saying his purpose is to record what is interesting and neat, and Thucydides begins by saying he wants to record the importance of the greatest war the world has ever seen for the edification of posterity.
Thucydides is so tsundere. Someone should ship them.
>>7495386
Thucydides has excellent battle and siege descriptions on a more microscopic level.
It also has some gut wrenching moments not just involving standout heroes but common people and slaves.
I remember a really well described siege on a city whose walls had frozen over. And an awesome description of skirmishers repulsing a beach landing through sheer amounts of javelins and slings.
Also the Melian dialogue and the Corcyrean revolutions are jaw droppingly gruesome.
>>7496643
>that description of the flight from Syracuse
When the day dawned Nicias led forward his army, and the Syracusans and the allies again assailed them on every side, hurling javelins and other missiles at them. The Athenians hurried on to the river Assinarus. They hoped to gain a little relief if they forded the river, for the mass of horsemen and other troops overwhelmed and crushed them; and they were worn out by fatigue and thirst. But no sooner did they reach the water than they lost all order and rushed in; every man was trying to cross first, and, the enemy pressing upon them at the same time, the passage of the river became hopeless. Being compelled to keep close together they fell one upon another, and trampled each other under foot: some at once perished, pierced by their own spears; others got entangled in the baggage and were carried down the stream. The Syracusans stood upon the further bank of the river, which was steep, and hurled missiles from above on the Athenians, who were huddled together in the deep bed of the stream and for the most part were drinking greedily. The Peloponnesians came down the bank and slaughtered them, falling chiefly upon those who were in the river. Whereupon the water at once became foul, but was drunk all the same, although muddy and dyed with blood, and the crowd fought for it.
How dense is the book?
>>7496660
Dense but juicy if you like history. Prepare for a play-by-play in the politics department though.
>>7496518
He's not. At least not in translation, i don't know about the original of course. The speeches are such a nice read.
>>7497498
His Greek is probably the hardest to translate of the Ancient Greek authors. The translations usually available aren't especially good. The Stephen Lattimore is a notable exception, and probably the best translation you could find..
