Does anyone else find quotations to be a convoluted clusterfuck of prosebreaking shitty rules?
Is the Cormac Mccarthy style of just eliminating quotation marks completely and having quotes in plain text on a new line the best way?
Personally it makes a lot of sense to me. It preserves the natural flow of the text without adding in ambiguity.
>>7487600
"No,"
I think there's an added bit of artistry with McCarthy in that it's never unclear who is talking or what is happening. But potentially there would be, which makes quotations easier. I think his artistry has to stand in relation to the typical convention. He's purposefully and knowingly doing it.
Quotation marks kind of steal some of my immersion away. It's hard to forget you're looking at a book when the textual equivalent of a speech bubble pops up in a paragraph. I think with words pretty often but I never think with quotation marks, which probably says something about them.
One of the things that annoys me is this: what are you supposed to do when quotes need both a comma and exclamation/interrogation?
"I don't know!" she said, breathing heavily.
"I don't know," she said, breathing heavily.
No matter which one you pick something's missing, but textbooks will say either one is correct. There needs to be more hybrid punctuation like ‽. A comma exclamation mark and a comma question mark are needed.
>>7487649
>A comma exclamation mark and a comma question mark are needed.
Not really. I see no problem with your example.
>>7487709
Sure, it sounds natural but only because you're used to it working that way with quotation marks. You wouldn't say that a sentence which reads like this sounds good:
I don't know! she thought, breathing heavily.
I like the way Joyce wrote speech.
Also, read http://www.openculture.com/2013/08/cormac-mccarthys-punctuation-rules.html
The main thing the bugs me about McCarthy prose is how he replaces commas with 'and'. That really doesn't make sense. It's a longer expression than a comma which can end up taking over entire sentences if you use it like that. Ever read some shit like this in a McCarthy book?
"Assbastard stowed the rifle and replaced it with a hammer and started both the bath and the truck running and then got into only one."
I understand minimizing use of punctuation - it's a nonword, literally a piece of pure literary structure which removes you slightly from the text when you pass over it, because it doesn't represent the marking-down of a thought so much as the marking down of a piece of reading instruction, ie 'take a mental pause here'. It breaks the fourth wall in a way.
I think languages of the far future won't include punctuation at all. But still, maybe 'and'ifying your book is a bit much.
>>7487614
John Green is such a hack
>>7487760
>it's a nonword, literally a piece of pure literary structure which removes you slightly from the text when you pass over it, because it doesn't represent the marking-down of a thought so much as the marking down of a piece of reading instruction, ie 'take a mental pause here'. It breaks the fourth wall in a way.
This makes me wanna use less punctuation, pretty darn accurate.
>>7487766
Make it Chigurh
>>7487600
>staring at a piece of paper covered in bastardized version of cuneform accounting symbols invented 8,000 years ago
>"AH SHIT THIS APOSTROPHE BROKE MAH IMMURSHUN"
>>7487760
A comma makes you pause, and "and" keeps the pace steady.
Quotation marks also affect the "pace" and "emphasis" slightly.
A comma makes you pause and and keeps the pace steady. Quotation marks also affect the pace and emphasis slightly.
McCarthy's mechanical choices keep yoursubvocalizationfast and monotone and low-key. They make sure the words speak for themselves and he never tells you where to pause or feel impact.
>>7487772
>>7487795
>>7487811
Now do Bartleby
>>7487600
>quotes in plain text on a new line
They aren't on a new line.
The first quote in your pic doesn't start on a new line.
Also, fuck leaving out quotation marks.
See that first quote. If he had used quotation marks, he wouldn't have needed to add "he said".
Quotation marks literally exist to indicate quotes.
If they trigger your autism, then that's too bad.
When a writer's good you can already tell which characters are speaking
>>7487903
wish I could downvote you
>>7487718
Just italicize the inner thought and call it day. It works fine.
>>7487998
So why not just italicize quotes too?
Who the fuck cares, just write your book how you want to, if it's good it's good and if it's not it's not, struggling with the minutiae of punctuation isn't going to magically give you the formula for good writing. Good and bad books have been written with very little punctuation and good and bad books have been written with loads of punctuation.
>>7488051
This.
As long as it's clear and you're reasonable and not constantly writing "he said/she said", this is probably the least important thing there is about writing.
It's mostly an editor thing too.
>>7488068
>this is probably the least important thing there is about writing.
you've yet to learn the importance of punctuation but you've definitely learned the importance of hyperbole
I like how Junot Diaz handles quotations, although I'd never prescribe the style for every story.
Go the Gaddis route and have your dialogue blend into the narration so well it's hard to tell who the fuck is talking or if you're even reading dialogue sometimes.
>>7487614
ah yes, the road. that was my favorite scene. the only scene.
>>7490786
I used to do this. Then writing workshop people told me it was bad so I stopped.
Writing workshops mostly suck.
>>7490820
>be undergrad
>do 4 semesters of short fiction workshop
>nobody understands my minimalism
>do senior thesis short story collection
>in their responses both my faculty readers told me to basically forgot everything I ever heard in workshop and do me to the fullest
>>7487600
I've never read anything by McCarthy but when writing short stories I've never used quotation marks. Sometimes I put 'he said/she said' bits in, but sometimes not. Feels more natural to me. Plus I have OCD and irrationally dislike quotation marks
>>7490831
wow, you're such a special snowflake
seriously tho, 4 semesters? why would you do that to yourself. do you just like the attention? it's probably best to stop at 2 and then do your own thing. find or found a damn literary mag
>>7493689
Where do you find a literary mag? How do you get started writing for them?
>>7487766
bless u
>>7493689
>easy As
>counts towards my major
>build rapport with future letters of reference writers
Why would I want to be a fag like you and found something irrelevant in the 21st century?
