Borges
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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
How do people feel about Borges? In my opinion, he's probably one of the greatest short story writers of all time, if not the best.
What's everyone's favorite story of his?
>i read
>>7467017
The Circular Ruins
gimmicky one trick pony, great if you like that, bad if you don't.
>>7467017
My favourite story is The Garden of Forking Paths. The ending (where the death of Albert manages to tip off the German Command) fits in so well with the theme of parallels and some things just happening. (That all things happen and don't. Only some make sense).
>>7467031
>one trick pony
Non reader detected.
>>7467124
bad reader detected.
>>7467134
And which is worse?
>>7467139
being a bad reader because that's obviously the case here whereas what you said is you being stupid.
he's a meme author around these parts
Can this recent interest in Borges be explained by the popularity of Narco's?
>>7467163
the illusion of depth through recursion/infinity a la Nolan. and throw in some gaucho knives to try and spice up his boring stories.
I really like The Library of Babel, but Borges is one of this authors that you MUST read in spanish, I find a lot of pleasure in the way he plays with the words and how he builds his sentences, truly unique.
You can be dissapointed on him if you read translations like this pleb:
>>7467031
>>7467017
I find his work amazing. He makes me think like few writers have. The universe seems to fall into place when reading him, like listening to Bach.
My favorite story of his is 'The Library of Babel.' It's hard to refrain from giving the rest of my shortlist, but it's a very long 'short'list.
>>7467187
>muh translation
meming for a meme author. well memed.
>>7467203
I'm not memeing, Borges is one of those authors, face it, pleb, you have never really read him.
>>7467187spanish here, true
>>7467182
>singling out limited concepts
>implying that recursion and infinity are exhaustible 'tricks'
>>7467203
A little example, the first sentences from "Man in a Pink Corner"
Spanish:
A mí, tan luego, hablarme del finado Francisco Real. Yo lo conocí, y eso que éstos no
eran sus barrios porque él sabía tallar más bien por el Norte, por esos laos de la laguna
de Guadalupe y la Batería. Arriba de tres veces no lo traté, y ésas en una misma noche,
pero es noche que no se me olvidará, como que en ella vino la Lujanera porque sí, a
dormir en mi rancho y Rosendo Juárez dejó, para no volver, el Arroyo.
Translation:
Imagine you bringing up Francisco Real that
way, out of the clear blue sky, him dead and
gone and all.
Because I met the man, even if this wa'n't
exactly his stomping ground—his was more up
in the north, up around Guadalupe Lake and
Batería. Truth is, I doubt if I crossed paths with
the man more than three times, and all three
were on a single night—though it's not one I'll
be likely ever to forget. It was the night La
Lujanera came home to sleep at my place—just
like that, just up and came—and the same night
Rosendo Juárez left Maldonado never to
return.
Truly pathetic.
>>7467292
butthurt pleb calling others plebs because he can`t grasp Borges' writing style.
Don't worry, maybe one day tou will learn some spanish and understand what I'm saying.
>>7467281
>A mí, tan luego, hablarme del finado Francisco Real.
>Imagine you bringing up Francisco Real thatway, out of the clear blue sky, him dead andgone and all.
wow, just wow, is that the best english translation? I just can't believe how awful it is.
I enjoyed him in English, but obviously I don't know what I'm missing out on.
>>7467334
Is this better:
"To me, as then, talk of the late Francisco Real. I knew him, and that they do not neighborhoods were cut because he knew rather by the North, for those laos lagoon Guadalupe and battery. Top three times not tried, and those in one night, but it is night I will not forget, as she came in the Lujanera because yes, sleep on my ranch and Rosendo Juarez left, never to return, the Arroyo."
>>7467334
Try the French translation. Pierre Mernard sticks closely to the original.
>>7467334
>A mí, tan luego, hablarme del finado Francisco Real. Yo lo conocí, y eso que éstos no
>eran sus barrios porque él sabía tallar más bien por el Norte, por esos laos de la laguna
>de Guadalupe y la Batería. Arriba de tres veces no lo traté, y ésas en una misma noche,
>pero es noche que no se me olvidará, como que en ella vino la Lujanera porque sí, a
>dormir en mi rancho y Rosendo Juárez dejó, para no volver, el Arroyo.
or is this better:
"To me, so then, tell me about the late Francisco Real. I met him, and that these do not
they were their neighborhoods because he knew to carve but rather to the North, by those laos of the lagoon Guadalupe and battery. Above three times not tried it, and those on the same night, but it is a night that will not forget me, as that it came the Lujanera because Yes, to sleep on my Ranch and Rosendo Juárez left, never to return, Brook."
>>7467319
borges prose style (erudite, learned, prosaic, unliterary) isn't something that impressive. maybe there's sound and wordplay missing, but that isn't much of a loss to me.
borges is a shit writer tbqh, why would i waste my time learning a crap language that has maybe two writers worth reading? if i were autistic and fell for the translation meme, i'd learn french mon ami.
>>7467369
I speak spanish, german, english and french, you are a fucking pleb who doesn't know shit about Borges style. You can also read Don quixote and hundreds of brilliant shit in that "crap" language. Just keep that in mind, mon petit chouchou
>>7467397
>I am a trained linguist. I have over 300 confirmed translations. The moment you mocked my translation technique you unleashed some tough shite. I bet you would take back your "witty comment" if you could.
>>7467364
is this from google translator?
>>7467369
>borges prose style (erudite, learned, prosaic, unliterary) isn't something that impressive
unable to speak, read or write spanish confirmed
>>7467462
>asks for quality posts
>says Borges and Cervantes are hacks and spanish is a crap language
>>7467202
>Bach
Pulling out all the memes today are we
>>7467462
>hey guise, I understand this author even if I've never actually read anything written by him.
keke, pls stahp with your "I'm pretending to be a presumptuous retarded pleb" meme, tks
>>7467202
>bach & borges
wat?
>library of babel
based
>>7467355
please link that shit so we can compare translations, Borges writing is so weird that makes reading translations a funny experience, it's not easy to adapt to any other language
>>7467462
>Cervantes
>Hack
The father of the modern novel is a hack now boys. Time to pack our books and go.
>>7467524
Oh. I was joking. Read the Pierre Mernard story and it'll make sense. On a serious note, I've read the Anthony Kerrigan English translation of Ficciones and very much enjoyed it.
>>7467369
American twat detected
>>7467610
not me, faggot
i'd like some examples of non-hack writers, since borges and cervantes are worthless, apparently.
>>7467462
>why you enjoy borges or why he's good
Not him, but why would anyone bother? You're entrenched in your positions regarding Borges and the Spanish language, but here you go - I enjoy the game of literary abstraction he plays, and I read him in Spanish, which is my second language and have a different relationship to the words than you do.
As far as Spanish language writers, there are several I enjoy more.
>>7467645
not him but, what spanish authors do you like? What is your first language?
>>7467610
unable to identify samefaggots, newfag detected
>some people say I'm wrong, they must be the same person!
>>7467182
>one trick
>infinite
>gaucho knives
my favorite:
A THEOLOGIAN IN DEATH
I have been told by angels that when
Melancthon died, a house was prepared for him
like that in which he had lived in the world. This
also is done with most of the newcomers, owing
to which they do not know that they are not still
in the natural world.... The things in his room,
also, were all like those he had before, a similar
table, a similar desk with compartments, and
also a similar library; so that as soon as he
awakened from sleep, he seated himself at the
table and continued his writing, as if he were
not a dead body, and this on the subject of
justification by faith alone, and so on for several
days, and writing nothing whatever concerning
charity. As the angels perceived this, he was
asked through messengers why he did not write
about charity also. He replied that there was
nothing of the church in charity, for if that were
to be received as in any way an essential
attribute of the church, man would also ascribe
to himself the merit of justification and
consequently of salvation, and so also he would
rob faith of its spiritual essence. He said these
things arrogantly, but he did not know that he
was dead and that the place to which he had
been sent was not heaven. When the angels
perceived this, they withdrew....
A few weeks after this, the things which he
used in his room began to be obscured, and at
length to disappear, until at last there was
nothing left there but the chair, the table, the
paper and the inkstand; and, moreover, the
walls of his room seemed to be plastered with
lime, and the floor to be covered with a yellow,
brick-like material, and he himself seemed to be
more coarsely clad. Still, he went on writing,
and since he persisted in his denial of charity...
he suddenly seemed to himself to be under
ground in a sort of workhouse, where there
were other theologians like him. And when he
wished to go out he was detained....
>>7467719
cont.
At this, he
began to question his ideas, and he was taken
out, and sent back to his former chamber....
When sent back, he appeared clad in a hairy
skin, but he tried to imagine that what had gone
before had been a mere hallucination, and he
went on praising faith and denying charity. One
evening at dusk, he felt a chill. That led him to
walk through the house, and he realized that
the other rooms were no longer those of the
dwelling in which he had lived on earth. One
room was filled with unknown instruments,
another had shrunk so much that he could not
enter it; another one had not itself changed, but
its windows and doors opened onto great sand
dunes. There was a room at the rear of the
house in which there were three tables, at which
sat men like himself, who also cast charity into
exile, and he said that he conversed with them,
and was confirmed by them day by day, and
told that no other theologian was as wise as he.
He was smitten by that adoration, but since
some of the persons had no face, and others
were like dead men, he soon came to abominate
and mistrust them. Then he began to write
something about charity; but what he wrote on
the paper one day, he did not see the next; for
this happens to every one there when he
commits any thing to paper from the external
man only, and not at the same time from the
internal, thus from compulsion and not from
freedom; it is obliterated of itself....
When any novitiates from the world entered
his room to speak with him and to see him, he
was ashamed that they should find him in such
a sordid place, and so he would summon one of
the magical spirits, who by phantasy could
produce various becoming shapes, and who
then adorned his room with ornaments and
with flowered tapestry.... But as soon as the
visitors were gone, these shapes vanished, and
the former lime-plastering and emptiness
returned, and sometimes before.
The last word we have of Melancthon is that
the wizard and one of the men without a face
carried him out to the sand dunes, where he is
now a servant to demons.
(From Emanuel Swedenborg, Arcana
Cœlestia)
>>7467409
Yeah, that's why I was asking.
>>7467501
calling something a meme is hardly a strong refutation...
still no word on who the non-hack writers are?
>>7467879
Or is it the strongest refutation?
>>7467896
I don't know about Spanish writers but George R.R. Martin is pretty good.
>>7467896
I doubt the troll will return.
>>7467904
Nope. Definitely superficial. Kind of like pointing out that a book is a collection of words.
>>7467896
All writers are hacks. Except meme
>>7467645
are you scared of discussing something with someone with a different viewpoint than you. thanks for the post but it wasn't helpful in appreciating borges. his 'abstraction' i.e. summarizing versus actually enacting his ideas in plot, what i called unliterary, isn't that impressive since it always revolves around the same idea over and over. it's a creative deficit in my view. i am glad that he does it in the form of short stories, less to suffer through.
what is it tabout his words that have such a special relationship to you.
>>7467678
>>7467631
if you're not interested in discussing literature, why are you bothering posting your useless shitposts senpaitachi
>>7467912
Is a book not a collection of words mon ami?
>>7467915
>what i called unliterary
Borges disputes aside, you seem to have a clear idea of what constitutes 'the literary' or 'unliterary writing'. I've never thought to consider the distinction. Would you kindly unpack the term 'literary' or direct me to some relevant works/sources?
>>7467017
I just finished the Library of Babel on the recommendation of everyone in the thread and that was seriously the most exciting short story I've read I'm a long time.
>>7468221
"The Book of Sand" is a nice companion piece to it.
And "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote" is one of the funniest short stories I've read.
If you want to read some more Borges.
Just grab the Collected Fictions, it's 12 dollars on Amazon or something and it's all the fiction he's written. Well worth it.
>>7468221
I'm glad you liked it, meit
>>7467281
what the fuck
>>7467202
That's pretty much the best description I could give.
Borges is the platonic ideal for a writer like how Bach is the platonic ideal for a composer.
Almost everyone likes Borges, man. Don't mention him so much, if he gets popular /lit/ will get on the "I hate everything" edgy contrarian pony show I don't want that shit
>>7469172
I'm better than him tbqh fahm
>translation
Come on, Spanish isn't even that difficult to learn if you live in the US.
>>7467281
And plebs say that translations are acceptable.
Feels good not being a monoglot pleb.
>>7469394
speak three languages minimum or gtfo should be our slogan
>>7467017
He's pretty balling, but I agree with his own assessment of himself that he was a better reader/critic than he was a writer.
My favourite story is probably The South.
>>7467017
One of my favorite authors. The short stories I enjoyed most are probably the Garden of forking paths, the immortal, the shape of the sword and the one of which I forgot the name (lent my book) about the soldier and his play. The Hidden miracle? is that the one? Something miracle.
>>7467281
>A mí, tan luego, hablarme del finado Francisco Real.
>Imagine you bringing up Francisco Real that way, out of the clear blue sky, him dead and gone and all.
What the carajo? That should translate to something like:
"Coming to me, so long after, with word about poshy Francisco Real."
t. argie
>>7467355
Underrated
>>7468233
Thanks man!
>>7467355
>>7470498
haha nice
>>7470379
"finado" means "dead" you dip
>>7469380
This is quite possibly the most stupid post I've ever seen here.
>>7471539
newfag
>>7470379
>poshy
illiterate motherfucker...
Improved translation:
"Coming to me, so long after, with word about that decedent Francisco Real."
>>7471751
/lit/ spanish-talkingfags, we need to improve the existent Borges translations and publish that shit ˢᵐʰ ᵗᵇʰ ᶠᵃᵐ
Is Borges mexican?
>>7471766
He's from Liberland.
>>7471539
Spotted the monoglot retard.
I have fairly limited knowledge of truly good literature, but I agree his works are quite good.
>Favorite story
Probably the Library of Babel
>>7471766
You know that long silver of a country in South America? He's from next to that.
>>7467017
metafiction is for C O W A R D S
his influence on literature has been quite damaging
>>7472360
>I'm illiterate
>>7467173
was he mentioned? i read him based on a recommendation on /lit/
>>7469172
>Borges is the platonic ideal for a writer like how Bach is the platonic ideal for a composer.
That means pretty much nothing. This is the douchest sentence I've ever read on /lit/.
>>7472360
thats an interesting opinion. I have read some metafiction that seemed either cowardly or simply shallow, and that it's a good genre for hiding a lack of anything serious to say, but I like Borges and think he's very intelligent. Do you think it is him that is a coward, or simply his imitators?
So is Borges white or no? He was Argentinian, but all pictures I see of him have him appearing white-skinned
>>7469172
>Borges is the platonic ideal for a writer like how Bach is the platonic ideal for a composer.
what a stupid statement.
Here, this chair is the platonic ideal of a chair
>>7472531
it doesn't look very comfortable. surely heaven can do better than that.
>>7467017
Either "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote" or "The Zahir"
>>7472437
>This is the douchest sentence I've ever read on /lit/.
Found correct referent of 'this'. :^)
>>7467017
My favourite I've read is also the most normal- The Gospel According to... Luke? Mark? I like his tricksy games too, but there's something really effective about how simple that one is.
>>7467026
'The Circular Ruins'
http://users.clas.ufl.edu/burt/KafkaKierkegaardBible/BorgesTheCircularRuins.pdf
>>7467044
>>7469442
'The Garden of Forking Paths'
http://wsblog.iash.unibe.ch/wp-content/uploads/Borges_The-Garden-of-Forking-Paths.pdf
>>7467187
>>7467202
>>7472084
'The Library of Babel'
http://www.unil.ch/files/live//sites/angl/files/shared/pdf/Crossing_Americas/BORGES.GOSPEL.pdf
>>7468233
'The Book of Sand'
http://archives.evergreen.edu/webpages/curricular/2010-2011/natural-order/Readings/Week_09/The_Book_of_Sands.pdf
>>7468233
>>7472979
'Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote'
http://hispanlit.qwriting.qc.cuny.edu/files/2011/06/Borges-Pierre-Menard.pdf
>>7469409
'The South'
https://jessbarga.wikispaces.com/file/view/Borges,+The+South.pdf
>>7469442
>>7469488
'The Secret Miracle'
http://c2.scasd.schoolwires.net/cms/lib5/PA01000006/Centricity/Domain/1487/The%20Secret%20Miracle.pdf
>>7469442
'The Immortal'
https://novelstales.wikispaces.com/file/view/The+Immortal+-+Borges.pdf
>>7469442
'The Shape of the Sword'
http://www.coldbacon.com/writing/borges-sword.html
>>7472979
'The Zahir'
http://web.mit.edu/allanmc/www/borgeszahir.pdf
>>7474737
'The Gospel According to Mark'
http://www.unil.ch/files/live//sites/angl/files/shared/pdf/Crossing_Americas/BORGES.GOSPEL.pdf
>>7475523
'Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius'
http://art.yale.edu/file_columns/0000/0066/borges.pdf
