How to write like in Dark Souls?
>>7360132
Cormac McCarthy
Learn some of another language.
Try to read books in that language.
When you don't understand parts of it just make it up in your head.
Congratulations, you made it!
Are you asking how to write like you're in an abandoned, dying world that was clearly once greater than you could imagine?
>>7360176
Yes. A world built over the remains of the older one. Where the foundations are eternal trees, and the few humans remaining, are dreaming while they are awake. Dreaming of the past. Dreaming of eternity.
>>7360185
Go to bed vaati
>>7360176
Britain!
>>7360185
Neuromancer.
>>7361416
I leld
I want to write an essay about the Nietzschean themes of Dark Souls. A serious one at that. I mean, think about it. Everything in the game points to it.
>>7362897
please explain
is there one guy who's really obsessed with this game who keeps making this thread, or is it something about it that makes everyone want to write a book like it?
>>7360132 I don't know the book. How does he write? There's reference to another language?
>>7362924
it nails a tone that hasnt been explored much in modern fantasy. elements of it are dealt with thoroughly in epics (but without the ambivalence and obscurity) and gothic horror (but without the action and fantasy), Book of the New Sun gets the closest to it but falls just short. most fantasy, in any medium, is at best somewhat similar to it. so people search for a literary equivalent.
>>7360137
well pretty much this, especially in Blood Meridian and the road
>>7362915
Just an example, the eternal return is an in-game mechanic (so an "ontological condition"): you die and come back andive and die again and come back, in a vicious cycle that can and will sap you of your humanity unless you have a purpose, something to live for - but an external, imposed purpose will carry you nowhere. Think about it, who battles Gwin at last? The Chosen Undead (whose motivation is the player, a kind of subconscious) and Solaire, who is literally questing for his own Sun, his meaning. It's quite overt, I think.
>>7363086
Hey anon, what do you think of the first flame and the ending choice? I had an idea that the age of dark could be seen representing a left wing ideal and the continued age of fire a right winged ideal
>>7363189
>left wing vs right wing
please drown in poop
>>7363199
>Age of fire is structured and orderly, with humanity beneath the gods/lords, great art and architecture are created and the great achieve great things. But requires painful sacrifices to sustain and is permanently crumbling and fading as time passes by
>The age of dark is the age of humanity where all are on equal footing and their is peace, but their is no order, and all greatness has deteriorated into nothingness.
>The choice doesn't matter, because the flame will always fade, and the choice will be made again.
>>7363189
I'm the anon you replied to. Still have to give it much thought, but I kind of feel the end choice is political in the same sense the ending of Plato's cave allegory is political. To me it's more a choice about whether to sacrifice oneself to a higher authority, to acknowledge that the quest for one's meaning has been resolved (almost "lifted", as if it was a burden) by an external intervention to which the chosen undead pledges itself (dying in the process) OR to continue questing, not yet satisfied in having effectively killed God - whicg is but the first step for Man, thus marking the beginning of the Age of Dark, the age of undead freedom. Needless to say, I personally prefer the Dark ending.
>>7360148
This is actually how Miyazaki did it.
What did you guys think of Bloodborne? It gave me hope for what videogames could be, the man really could make another SoC if he has the right vision. Really, I'd be interested in seeing video games get actual credence among writers, there desperately needs to be an intellectual element to the medium; it has so much promise and it's just raped by big corporations and talentless sanfran hipsters.
>>7363274
Can't play it since I lack the console, but I've seen a thorough let's play (enb's) and I loved it. The seamless transition from a gothic dark tale to a Lovecraftian theme/narration was incredible. The art direction is something I was enraptured by - at least, when it comes to the scenary. The enemies, I could do without... except for the beasts. One of the best renditions of werewolves I have ever seen. The writing I still have to formulate a coherent opinion about.
>>7363268
I found that the presence of Ash Lake as the closest thing to Plato's cave. Lordran being the cave and the unaffected outside world being Ash Lake, after traveling to which your view of world is changed forever.
>>7360132
Write a Choose Your Own Adventure book without any good endings.
>Dark Souls being insufferable as usual
Woah so deep
>>7363300
Never thought about that. Cool idea, and somewhat truthful: I would just argue that, even if the "underworld", the "rootworld" (interestingly enough, it seems like Dark Souls' world becomes more truthful the deeper you venture; a chtonian metaphysics?) is the Truth, how does it matter? Dark Souls' reality is a narrative one, as in "the reality in which we live is that in which we choose to believe": truth is important only as far as people can be made to believe that it is the truth. Look at the Crestfallen Warrior, for instance; he doesn't come back to life in the player's world, for instance, but I suspect he isn't really dead but alive, sitting at another bonfire, trapped in a self-inflicted cycle of boredom and inaction perpetuated by his own belief that his actions can't change anything. He literally can't change his condition.
Also sry for any error, English is not my native language and I'm typing this a bit hurriedly.
>>7363274
I loved Bloodborne, I think the Upper Cathedral Ward could have been betterlike have the lovecraft cthulu men instead of the blue ayy lmaosbut apart from that I thought it was great, definitely one of my favourite designs for a game. Music was 10/10 as well.
>>7363327
I saw the crestfallen warrior as a minor joke of a character honestly. His goal preventing him from going hollow was his determination to do nothing and go hollow, then he decides to do something with his life and goes hollow.
>>7362951
Dark Souls is a videogame, mate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkmsJfMoM58
Personally, i think that DS narration is between "weird" stories, and some Lovecraft.
>>7363294
There's a PC version too. Also, not sure if you realized, but Dark Souls takes a lot of real life inspirations.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/13/the-real-dark-souls-starts-here-12-real-life-inspirations-for-lordran
Pic related, Duomo di Milano, or Milan Cathedral. This inspired Anor Londo.
test
What are some /lit/ tier games?
>>7363639
Dwarf fortress if you are into fantasy. Maybe some old strategy games as well. The rest is garbage though.
>>7363639
Planescape: Torment
Dear Esther
>>7363639
The list starts and stops at dark souls
>>7363675
I'd add the background story of Half-Life 2, The Witcher saga (this one doesn't count, it's based on some Polish books), any Metal Gear...
>>7363639
Alan Wake. Not a god tier book, but enough to compete with Stephen King in a strange day.
>>7363675
This. I never thought I'd play a game as good and original as Dark Souls.
>>7363639
I always think the Stanley Parable is what would happen if Italo Calvino decided to make a videogame
>>7360132
Don't write, instead go around to readers houses and stomp on their foot until they convince themselves that they enjoy it.
Then when they least expect it, whisper a sentence of Lovecraft's "The Outsider" into their ear.
>>7363639
Maybe "Limbo" and "Machinarium".
>>7363726
True. I was talking more about patrician games, not /lit/ games.
>>7363639
Legacy of Kain without a shadow of a doubtstarcraftcampaign has a wonderfully written campaign imo
let's pretend that 2's campaign doesn't exist though
>>7363639
You've received some fine recommendations for the single player category, but the true /lit/ tier game must be multiplayer and available to you for everlasting intellectual provocation and stimulation. For such a game, one need only turn to Dota 2 and therein reside among the patricians to be found solely in the Ability Draft mode.
>>7363639
Pathologic
The Void
Planescape: Torment
>>7363674
>>7363678
>>7362924
it's because it's the only game that is vaguely intellectual and is clearly informed by mythology and philosophy beyond a superficial level
it's the only real convincing argument for games being art (and the fact that it is never discussed this way among critics is exactly why games won't be art for a long time)
>>7363639
Undertale, desu senpai
>>7363726
> Not crafting your own /lit/-tier narrative out of the events that happen in your fort and the struggles of the dwarfen people
Sounds like elf-talk, boy.
>>7363731
no lol
>>7363969
>it's the only real convincing argument for games being art
Dark Souls is fantastic, but you're a fool.
>>7363905
thats very amusing
>>7364771
no I'm right
there really is no better example
1. Read Hesiod and other creation stories
2. Imitate
>>7364837
DonDonPachi, Rez, Katamari Damacy, Super Mario Galaxy, Touhou, CAVE shooters, etc etc
Dark Souls is excellent, but suffers the same inherent problem most video games do when it comes to becoming 'art'---freedom, specifically the freedom to play in 'ugly' way. The only way to have a proper rhythm in gameplay is through limitation, restricting options until the player is essentially forced to experience the designed segment as close to how it was intended as possible, and only then can the designer really exercise his artistry and craft. Shmup bulletpatterns and enemy-hitboxes can make you move and shoot in a certain way, for example, but when you can defeat a wonderfully created boss/enemy in an actionRPG through cheese or bruteforce or basically in a dumb way, you can't ensure the fight has any sense of craft.
But hey, that's only what I think is the natural and inexorable conclusion of gameplay being the most important element of the medium, just as is whatever the equivalent 'formal aspect' is in music, poetry, novels, cinema, etc. I think aesthetics and criticism in video games focusing on plot and atmosphere is misguided and even pedestrian (like reading novels solely for plot), but I don't even play video games anymore, so if that's your view then :^)
Kentucky Route Zero. Seriously the most beautiful and poetic game ever made.
>>7363639
Mother 3
http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=422
DS has vague lore and the dialogue is pretty standard formal
>>7365041
Thou will understand one day. In thy twilight, old thoughts will return in great waves of nostalgia.
Vereor nox
>>7365143
b-bump
>>7365143
aye siwmae
>>7363639
Morrowind
>>7366756
Oh, definitely yes. It has an impressive metaphysics and hints at all kinds of deeper storylines and mysteries. It was able to do a lot of more interesting things with the writing than Oblivion or Skyrim because dialog was all just written instead of voice-acted. I'm not saying that the full voice-acting wasn't a nice cinematic touch, but it was far more restrictive on the depth of the writing because of time and budget restraints on recording.
I just love how the truly good games that will live through history are games made out of passion and love
No game that was made with a commercial sucess mind as the first and foremost priority will ever top these. You can notice in little details here and there when the people that made the game where having the times of their lifes doing their job, and that's why I think games have a lot of potential as an artistic medium (and if not, as a way to 'gift' other people fun), or at least they had it until around 2007.
Nowadays the industry looks so shallow and lifeless, I don't play nearly as much as I need 3 years ago, but looking through some of the new games you can feel like they were made in an 'industry' and not in a studio full of passionate people.
I want to compare it to the change that the steam machine did on the lifes and products that people used, before the industrialization products where manufactured and the effort put into them was part of the appeal, sure there where low-quality products, but the good ones where worth the money. But now you have these big industries that chip out games every month, they can give you some entertainment, but they feel void and shallow.
I grew up with games (currently 19), so maybe the attachment I have is bigger than some of the older posters here, but it's quite surprising how big the nostalgia for older games. Some other generations had a bigger attachment to TV shows or books.
Anyways, my list for good games are:
MGS/MGS2
Silent Hill 1/2
Starcraft and Broodwar
Mother 3
Roller Coaster Tycoon (and some other Tycoon games)
Age of Empires 2 and Age of Mythology
VVVVVV
E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy
GTA San Andreas
WoW until WotLK (only if you like exploring and questing)
That's what I can think of at the moment, but they are all worth the time imo
>inb4
>lmao look at this guy liking videogames and not reading all the classics during childhood
>>7361394
This. I don't like him.
>>7360132
You can't because it's one of the only games that actually uses it's medium, rather than trying to be something else (i.e. a movie).
>>7360132can anyone id that weapon?video games belong on /v/ and dark souls has mediocre "writing" at best, they managed to mask said mediocrity rather well by not having a story at all and hiding half their world building so people feel like there is much more to it than there actually is
>>7363374
The Upper Cathedral Ward absolutely fucking nailed the horror aspect. Aside from the fucking squidmen in narrow hallways, it's by far my favourite area from any of these games.
>>7363861
>and therein reside among the patricians to be found solely in the Ability Draft mode.
>>7367351
I agree with this point of view. But I'd also like to add that sometimes we remember some games better than they were. It's what nostalgia does.
I sweetly remember two sagas:
Half-Life
Zone of the Enders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDFQ7SaRcK4
>every time that I hear "Do you request control instructions?"
>tfw you'll never be able to defeat Anubis.
>tfw adrenaline pumps your body.
>>7360132
baka really family
>>7363639
Here you go. Thank me later.
>>7368478
Remove Portal and bioshock, but what's Live a Evil and Space Funeral about?
>>7368480
Live a Live is about 7 different time periods, and I won't go further than that.
Space Funeral is like Drakengard if drakengard was made in RPG maker and wasn't about how murder is evil, but instead how you can come to appreciate negativity and awfulness as you'll likely miss it when it's gone.
>>7368478
Bastion needs to be on there somewhere.
>>7368478
Abe's odd world maaaaan. shit was fuckin' crazy back in the day.
>>7368478
planetscape torment is shit though, it's like a pratchett novel.
>>7368485
Are there crazy as fuck rhythm games to kill me own mum?
If so I'm interested.
>>7368478
>undertale
>bioshock
>portal
>no S.T.A.L.K.E.R
Bad list
>>7368572
>rhythm games
Are you talking of musical games? If so, check DJMAX Trilogy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lbbdSNTHp8
>>7367351
My issue with games as an artistic medium is two things
>cost and size, you need large teams to make games, and money to make "impressive" ones (this can be substituted with good artistic vision, but there still requires a large capital investment that an author would never need [and while films have the same issue, there's a stronger intellectual side to the industry where people are less corporate and happy to produce "art" films, while "art" video games are made by {even more} pretentious hipsters])
>lack of player guidance, everyone wants open world games, but in a way, that almost subtracts from the tightly crafted design of other mediums that linear media like movies and books have
>it's very hard to translate gameplay into themes, really, the only game I've played that's done this sucessfully is SoC,seriously, making the whole game about holding on desperately to your love and desires (literally translated in you grappling huge monsters), and the finale being entirely about how you should have simply "let go" this entire time, is fucking genius
Really, games need some kind of intellectual movement that's not transvestite san-fran retards to deal with these concerns. My first priority would be developing an free open-source engine that would allow a small team to easily compete with AAA production values, or at least, imitate them pretty well. Things like unity are total shit.
>>7367351
I'm twenty-four, and what you feel is threefold for me. Did you know there's an I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream point-and-click adventure? That's not something vetted through marketing and assigned to a team, that's something the design team told their management they were going to do.
FROM and Platinum still seem to operate this way.
>>7368332
It's a zweihander. It was a real weapon used in Germany which reportedly was able to break pikeheads, though no one has managed to repeat this feat.
>>7368682
Why is that Jap devs make the best games? Is it because they still value artistic vision?
I can't think of a single major Western AAA publisher who have released anything of merit this past five years, maybe longer. Witcher 3 had fairly good writing (for a videogame but still), but that was about it.
>>7368679
Dwarf Fortress is made by this one guy and it's one of the largest and most involved games ever made.
You can get a lot done if you decide "fuck graphics, get money."
Money being in-game as ToadyOne is poor af iirc.
>>7368690
It's because companies aren't quite as all-consumingly greedy as the are over here.
Over there it's like "your team consistently turns a profit, good work" or "your team is shitty, we're dissolving it" or "we make pachinko machines now."
Over here it's like "we need X and Y in this next game to match marketing studies."
>>7368690
>Witcher 3 had fairly good writing
The videogame saga is based on a saga of books of Andrzej Sapkowski. Fortunately they didn't fucked the story, and just amplified it.
>>7360132
One thing I think vidya can seriously claim is the creation of tone. If a game has a consistent, original (or even just rare) tone, it's usually good. If it doesn't, it's usually shit.
>>7368478
>Silent Hill 2
great atmosphere, story isn't anything great.
>Pathologic
interesting
>MGS2
are you fucking serious? I love these games but they are pure autism when it comes to writing
>Deux Ex
Just no. Good game though
>Bioshock
a shallow attempt
>Legend of Zelda
I find these games over rated as hell. But eh.
>>7368701
Atmosphere! Tone and atmosphere.
In these respects, best games I've played are Dark Souls/Demon's Souls, Metroid Prime, and Shadow of the Colossus.
>>7368332
Just like the Bible then
>>7369525
Earth and human civilisation doesnt have a story line, only worldbuilding.
>>7368478
Legend of Zelda is a cooky cutter plot meshed together with trite action scenes and stupid minigames
>>7360185
Read a newspaper.
>>7368679
I hate to keep acting like a shill, but Supergiant Games is actually really good at this. If you look at Bastion it has a great deal to say about the process of loss in much the same way as you described SoC. Plus it does some absolutely genius bits of gameplay and story integration, particularlythe bit at the end with Zulf where you carry him through a barrage of enemy attacks.
They've got a fairly small team (a core 7 members) and their games blow aaa titles out of the water in regards to aesthetic and visual design, not to mention the god-tier music.
I think the issue is that you don't get games which are trying to be both game and story very often. The tumblrtards are making "games" where you do nothing but walk around mentally jerking yourself off, and aaa devs are just trying to keep up with the market.
I don't necessarily think it's the gap in production values, although they do help, but the fact that most devs aren't actually using their gameplay to tell a story, instead tacking on a justification for the gameplay.
>>7367351
Good taste, two of my three all time favorite games are there
>>7363699
It's a good game and definitely /lit/ related, but Alan Wake is a horrid writer.
>>7368478
Lisa has better writing than most of these games
Also Wreden's The Beginner's Guide is as /lit/ as a game can be
>>7368332
really don't know why people say Dark Souls doesn't have a story
it's essentially Heart of Darkness retold as nihilistic fantasy
I'm surprised how decent the discussion is, I thought that we would turn this into a shitshow
I thought most of people would go full
>only plebs like videogames, we patricians only read complex books all day every day
>>7370737
I played Lisa for a few hours. It's nice, but I had to stop, I stuck somewhere in the story. Maybe it's just that I'm not accustomed to this kind of games.
>>7369592
except Majora's Mask is an existentialist masterpiece you cunt!
>>7371828
this, I normally don't like LOZ games, but Majora's Mask is fantastic
>>7371047
cringe
>>7368706
Whenever people say games with good "atmosphere" they almost always mean games with isolationist ruin or horror themes that stand out through minimalist environment and sound design. If the game doesn't run with those themes then its just the "theme" and doesn't have any particular atmosphere. Not that I dislike that kind of atmosphere, but the way video game atmosphere is defined is rather arbitrary at times.
Responding to the post you responded to, it seems like there are a lot games with a certain tone, they just don't achieve it usually in a constrained, minimalist way which is appealing to cultural gatekeepers. Would anyone say a game like MGS3 doesn't have a consistent tone because of its bombastic presentation? But then, I would argue video games are by nature of the medium not subtle more often than not. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though.
>>7371893
TW3 does good atmosphere without relying on isolation/horror
>>7371910
This. Also, TW videogames have a pretty deep lore behind, based on central-Europe folklore (as well as the books).
What makes The Witcher special, is the narrative heritage. Sapkowski designed a cruel and honest world, ruled by arbitrary events, and ocasionally by incomprehensible forces. But after all, the important thing is the "broken" humanity of every character. They're just humans, in its more animalistic form. Violent, greedy, coward.
Geralt is a skeptical guy. He lost faith in civilisation (that's nothing else but a hierarchized society of animals), and human life. Also, those who follow ideals must be strong enough to not die in any ditch.
He realizes he's not better than any other. Just check his relationship with Yennefer of Vengerberg.
>mfw stalking
BLYAD :DDD
I think Miyazaki is a genius. He is very vell spoken/read and knows a lot of shit.
>>7362877
>western Africa.
WEE WUZ KEENGZ AND SHIEET
>>7368478
>undertale
bamp
>>7372309
yeah too bad shit like Bioshock and fucking Spec Ops are promoted as the 'thing man's games'
Does anyone like Desktop Dungeons? It actually has some amazing comedic writing, as well as being a sweet game.
>>7367245
Voice acting is the devil.
>>7363700
ever heard of a game called Demon's Souls?or King's Field?
>>7372510
Nice one.
>>7360132
Am I the only one who thought about The Myth of Sisyphus, playing Dark Souls (and Demon's)?
You know, the constant, pointless search of freedom from the curse, dying many times in every try, all of this for the little idea of saving a desolated land, that will be soon dead anyway.
>>7368480
>remove BioShock
You are a fucking retard
>>7368478
BioShock is truly a masterpiece, there's so much philosophy in that game.
>>7375097
I can't believe he doesn't know the difference between Bioshock Infinite and the original Bioshock. It hurts and enrages me that he's even allowed on our board of fine literature.
>>7375100
you are a fuckin kek
>>7375283
You have obviously never played the game or/and prefer listening to the hivemind.
>>7375100
any 14 year old can criticise objectivism
>>7375478
So what? Just because someone else already talked about it (and maybe it's feeling a false sense of superiority from that, like the edgelord you are) it means it can't be discussed anymore?
Also, Objectivism is used only like a point where to start from, the rest of the critique is focused on various other themes, like Determinism, Romanticism, and so on.
Your view is pointless.
>>7368679
What's SoC?
>>7375818
Shadow of the Colossus
>>7375895
And here I was feeling good thinkig Shadow of Chernobyl was being recognised as patrician
>>7371893
>>7368702
re: MGS series: The writing is definitely goofy and overwrought and honestly it's hard to tell if it's self-aware or serves the greater story/themes of the game(s) or is just, well, earnestly goofy. But I think it's still worth acknowledging and discussing when it comes to "games as more than entertainment" (I wouldn't even say "art games" here because "art games" almost always have compromised gameplay; sort of feel like games second after being "arty") because of how it uses and reimagines actual gameplay elements, rather than becoming "artsy" by trying to emulate film or literature etc. Minor things, like camera control during cutscenes (especially in MGS4), are interesting and novel, but the whole series always has moments where it seriously messes with player expectations and creates moments that genuinely enhance something about the game, whether it be immersion, storytelling, gameplay itself, etc. (e.g. Psycho Mantis, MGS1 flashback in MGS4, the final act of MGS2.) The whole series feels very meta and pastiche-y; Kojima, to me, feels a lot like a video game Tarantino.
>>7363639
To me a game to be good can't just be like a book, not even just like a film. It has to have a good fusion between the narrative, visual design and gameplay. For example Braid and MGS are regarded as games that have a good story and gameplay, but to me they were far too disjointed. In braid when there was story it felt like a book, and during gameply it seemed like something very loosely related to that story (though there was one brilliant scene which connected the two). MGS at times feels like an action/stealth game and then it's film. Both parts break the immersion of one another and feel like aspects that could pretty much work on their own.
Finally games that do merge these aspects well to me: Portal, Shadow of the Colossus and Ico, Souls games, Zelda games, Planescape: Torment, Pathologic to some extent Morrowind, black isle/obsidian Fallout games and Okami.
>>7376282
I think that's a pretty good game though.
>>7376282
S.T.A.L.K.E.R is recognized as one of the best shooters of all time. It's one of the great, among SotC
>>7376526
What about Half-Life saga?
>>7376643
Same obviously
>>7360132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIx7Ot5Mq2Q
>A Gesamtkunstwerk (IPA: [gəˈzämtˌku̇nstˌverk], translated as total work of art,[1] ideal work of art,[2] universal artwork,[3] synthesis of the arts, comprehensive artwork, all-embracing art form or total artwork) is a work of art that makes use of all or many art forms or strives to do so.
>>7360137
If OP means dialogue, then how can you be so uncouth as to lack such judgement. Dark Souls' dialogue is so flowery and overstated, it's the complete opposite of McCarthy.
>>7376526
>S.T.A.L.K.E.R is recognized as one of the best shooters of all time.
>>7363639
Recently?
Undertale
Bloodborne
Witcher 3
Beginners Guide
>>7376526
The game doesn't live up to the works that inspired it. Imo it was a mediocre shooter with an average story set in a beautiful, atmospheric world.
