What anime are on the level of real literature?
>>6374613
No Game No Life
Yuru Yuri
Boku no Pico
Monster
>>6374613
Monogatari. I mean it's a moot question since most animes do begin as light novels- by default "literature".
But Monogatari, even in the anime, focuses on literary elements such as dialogue, characterization and symbolism. Most importantly- it experiments with language itself, focusing on the written word. Now if that's not literary then I've been reading the wrong literary theories (and I haven't.) There's also booty and rape which is nice. (pic related)
Oh, and OP's pic related is not literature. It's beyond literature. It's more beautiful and meaningful than literature will ever be- it's politics <3
>>6374628
Why'd I have to wake up to this embarrassment of a post?
>>6374637
>Haibane Renmei
>Texhnolyze
>Lain
My nigga.
>>6374637
>Hanekawa best girl
Tru I guess
>>6374638
>Why'd I have to wake up to this embarrassment of a post?
Because you clicked on an anime thread on /lit/ you faggot
>>6374628
Shameful.
What a stupid post.
LotGH is fucking literature.
>>6374643
Haibaine Renmei is probably my favourite out of Abe's work but at least something good came out of Murakmai's novels I guess. Feels like an improved version of Hard Boiled Wonderland.
I also forgot Dennou Coil and some episodes of Mushishi from my list. MAYBE Big O too but that's kind of a stretch.
Absolutely none. Anime is for children.
None whatsoever, fuck off degenerate.
>>6374663
Here's the fourth book that I own.
Anime is a much cheesier and pulpier medium than anything that could be considered high literature.
Then again that's why I fucking love it
Cowboy Bebop
Samurai Champloo
Trigun
Berserk
Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo is a pretty decent science fiction anime that gets creative with its source material and tunes up the characters' melodrama and angst by 11, while respecting its literary origins.
>>6374684
Anime is moving images on a screen whereas literature is narration either written down or not. Therefore anime cannot by definition be considered literature, high or low brow.
But we can discuss about anime that has literary properties. The problem is a lot of people here have an odd view on literature. I'd call it elitist but it's not. It's just a misinterpretation of the definition.
For me, if it has good narration and characterization, if it seems to communicate with the literary epochs (contemporary or past), if it skilfully uses literary tropes (allegory or symbolism, for example) then yes we can call it "like literature."
Only someone with no literary sense whatsoever will focus on style and the medium it reflects (fan service or comic relief for example) and use it to refute all but his own preferences when answering this simple and quite theoretical question.
(pic is highly probably not related.)
>>6374670
Utena had some impressive symbolism
>>6374679
Here's artwork from inside the cover flap.
>>6374686
I'd say none of those have literary merit. Berserk possibly.
>>6374693
Gankutsuou was pretty creative for visuals and settings.
I'd say stuff from the World Masterpiece Theater collection would be considered literary since pretty much most of them are based upon classic literature.
>>6374699
Anime is very casual. The dialogue in both English and Japanese is based on slang, the humor often relies on slapstick out of character moments for the protagonists, and there are typically too many unexplained anachronisms and fantastical elements in anime settings for the genre to ever be taken seriously as having "literary" properties.
Anime is the majority of the time made to be watched with a beer and a pizza or laughed at with your buddies on the weekends, not be discussed as deep and meaningful art or literature.
>>6374706
>Berserk possibly has literary merit
It's a sometimes emotionally moving but undeniably shallow saga of gratuitous bloodshed and rape meant to titillate people who on some level enjoy depictions of violence. You can't pretend that series is anything but.
>>6374713
Idk, dude, sounds to me like you've got a specific taste in anime. I'm sure this thread will prove you're wrong. pick up some of the recommendations you see here. Sure you can watch them over a beer and pizza, but I really don't think it's possible that there's nothing artistic or literary about it and that you've come to this conclusion with certainty.
Is Evangelion the Ulysses of anime? They're both immensely influential on their respective artforms, having reshaped their medium as a whole. But at the same time, they're very unconvential works, and despite being so influential there are very little works that are like it.
The Tatami Galaxy
Solanin
Monogatari
Kara no Kyoukai
Aku no Hana
Katanagatari
Samurai Flamenco
>>6374724
I've watched close to everything mentioned in this thread (Trigun, Berserk, Cowboy Bebop, Utena, Monster, surprisingly I don't think Evangelion was mentioned yet...) and I hold to my statement.
>>6374726
>Is Evangelion the Ulysses of anime?
Yea. Nah, for real- yea
>>6374726
If anything Evangelion is the Neuromancer of anime
Does you guys Princess Tutu? If I recall it's pretty /lit/.
>>6374730
K, man it's not like I think your opinion has no credibility or basis in truth. Honestly, nobody can expect anyone to consider anything but "literature" to be "literary"- it's almost an ontological problem.
Say...can you give me an example of something you WOULD call "like literature" that's not literature? A movie or whatever. I just wanna gauge your standards I guess.
>>6374613
What would you say the scent was of Mylène Farmer's music?
>>6374613
Ghost in the Shell and Haibane Renmei. Texchnolyze. Tatami Galaxy. That's bout itq.
>>6374739
>something you WOULD call "like literature" that's not literature?
There are a few classic films that come to mind, but the examples I can think of (Marathon Man, 2001, The Maltese Falcon) were directly based on literary sources.
More recently exist other film auteurs such as Wes Anderson and Jim Jarmusch who base their films on the themes of particular authors (Anderson's settings and themes are often a dead ringer for Salinger's) or literary movements.
>LoGH
Really? I love LoGH and all, but it's characters are just undeveloped tropes, and the series political insight is very basic.
I've never seen any anime on the level of 'real literature'. Can still be enjoyed for what it is though.
It's regrettable but I find lots of people here aren't able to appreciate other mediums for their own qualities, they end up looking for "literature" in something that should be its own thing.
>>6374761
>the series political insight is very basic.
Have to agree here. Rewatched this series after taking a handful of Political Science classes and cringed at the main characters' (protagonists, antagonists, and various obstructive officials') very simplistic understanding. Was also watching it with a friend who was recently commissioned as a reserve officer in the military who kept commenting "nobody in the military acts that way!" at several points.
>>6374763
At least /lit/ understands to pick out the few gems and enjoy them for what they are worth.
Rather than, for the most part, shitposting about the medium in general being something you should never consider exploring.
Like:
>>>/tv/55101721
>>6374637
Kino no Tabi is Camus for babbies. Not as if it's something bad.
Welcome to the NHK
>>6374772
Well those guys are just idiots.
IMO anime has so much better shit than american tv shows, it's not even comparable
>>6374785
The book was an entertaining read but full of in-jokes and references you probably wouldn't get unless you're deeply invested in "otaku" culture.
>>6374760
>directly based on literary sources
So you do, ontologically, only attribute literariness to literature, at least by proxy.
I mean that's cool. I guess I just have a more...humanist? sense of literature. Like, 3 thousand years ago people used to tell stories over a campfire and that was (unless my education got it wrong)- literature. So I guess I don't see why animators telling stories using computers could not, in today's world, be at least considered "literary". I mean, literature isn't "the great American novel." Literature includes the epic, the generic, the pop, the folklore...That doesn't mean there are no standards. It doesn't mean a 13 year old can make up a story and scholars should be forced to define it as "literature". There are standards- that's literary theory. I just think this theory can be applied to a much broader field- and I think this can give us more insight rather than limit it.
But I guess our differences then are in notion and not in taste, value or style. Which is good because, as >>6374763 said: we should learn to appreciate mediums for what they are. Judging by your beer and pizza- you CAN do that. So really...no point arguing over definitions.
>>6374761
>it's characters are just undeveloped tropes
Tru. Well the MCs do get some minor characterization but nothing beyond that.
>the series political insight is very basic.
True, but I believe "basic" political insight is a very complex thing. And to most people it would be far from basic.
>>6374790
I feel like the same thing could be said about IJ, just substituting "otaku" with "consumerism" or "drug" culture.
>>6374785
>want to read NHK novel as epub/mobi
>libgen has PDF only, shit scan
>everything else has nothing
>amazon.com sells only paperback, $26
wat
>>6374794
Except that consumerism is something that involves literally everybody who has or spends money, and most people have at least a passing familiarity with drug culture from its frequent references in mainstream entertainment media
"Otaku" are a very specific subset and subculture of consumers. If you're marketing something toward otakus, you're going to have a very small base of buyers from the start. Not to mention that gearing a work of fiction to that community means not only will that work of fiction sell poorly, but also that it won't have any great degree of universality.
>>6374613
Ashamed of you /lit/. This should have been easy to answer.
>>6374801
>otakus
>s
>>6374807
>i complain when people use loanwords and don't use the grammar from that language too
suck a dick. you probably even think the plural of "virus" should be "virii" or some fuckup like that
>>6374811
>you probably even think the plural of "virus" should be "virii" or some fuckup like that
Nah. It depends on the spoken pr written language and what derivation the people normally use- since everyone says "viruses" there's no point in prescribing "virii" or shit like that. But don't tell me "phenomenons" is legit cause Imma cap a bitch.
"Otaku" or "Otakus" isn't really common in discourse. I don't think there are any rules. We can just argue what sounds better. Which the anon does and so do you.
>>6374628
Absolute garbage. If you can enjoy that shit then you're the scum of the earth
>>6374728
Your death would do the world a favor.
>>6374827
Your a shit tho
Half of this thread is OP samefagging
>>6374628
Literally a glorified picture drama.
>>6374838
Possible.
Half of shit comments is you samefagging tho
>>6374841
Nope. I just showed up a few posts ago.
>>6374842
>I just showed up a few posts ago.
My point exactly
>>6374843
All of the posts in this thread are shit.
>>6374845
You clicked on an anime thread on /lit/, faggot. The hell did you expect? Do you also go on chubby /s/ threads to inform people chubby girls suck?
>>6374847
OP mad that someone's calling his shti thread shit
>>6374713
are you implying literature is defined by the absence of slang in dialogue and slapstick in humor?
Psycho Pass
Ergo Proxy
Parasyte
>>6374853
Ppl who watch anime are illiterate retards
>>6374855
No.
Why has this thread I reported not been deleted yet?
Wings of Honneimaise
Only Yesterday
Patlabor movies
Ideon
trying to avoid the obvious ones
>>6374801
You've missed the point of the post - the parallel is between the common forms of existence between the two novels, not the nature of the substance and its particularities to the extent that it detracts in relevance of description for the frame of its use in relating the reader to the character.
Also, the particularities of Otaku consumption are cloaked under the generalities of consumerism - but just because society is robed in this cloak does not make everyone an Otaku per se; your post implies an absolute separation by recognition of the unique distinction by recognizing it as a subculture - caused by an ill-defined use of the term 'consumerism'.
>>6374871
Lol check this nerd.
>>6374855
Mediocre taste.
Bet you have figurines and plushies.
>>6374871
good choices
patlabor's second movie a shit though and early days is best
>>6374871
damn, I forgot Ashita no Joe (1971), something I wasn't expecting to be so laden in subtext
Post anime list
>>6374900
why would anyone watch that shit
>>6374904
it's fun
>>6374904
He has about 5 good titles. Everything else, meh.
>>6374912
>only good things in this pic are Superflat Monogram and There She Is
Oh, you.
>>6374913
I missed Nausicaa which is also fine
>>6374900
(seriously, being "judged" by lit is like being jokingly hit on by a gay dude. Fucken painless.)
>>6374917
I'm currently going through Studio Ghibli films chronologically. I've watched the first 4 or something, they're all been fucking amazing
>>6374917
Nausicaa's manga is an actual masterpiece.
>>6374922
This one is somehow even worse
>tfw too ashamed to add Bible Black or Boku no Pico
>tfw came buckets to both
>>6374933
I have the correct opinions. You're probably the one with the wrong opinions.
The main thing that pisses me off about anime is the fact that it's almost never subtle.
>No GitS
>No Casshern
Both are more literary (whatever that means for an anime) than literally anything posted in this thread with the exception of maybe Eva, LoGH and HR.
Now go away, anime is shit.
>Eva
>literary
Anno literally said the symbolism had no meaning. It's insanely pretentious.
>>6374946
>what is a joke
>>6374726
Evangelion is the Fear and Trembling of anime.
>>6374946
the christian symbolism had no meaning. there was more to the show than christian symbolism
logh is just a nerdy space melodrama
>>6374946
>implying that's what he said
>sat is death of the author
I can't believe no one has said Jin-Roh yet. It's the Japanese George Smiley, a lot of good symbolism and nuance with some very well written characters.
AKIRA
Tatami Galaxy (b/c it's literally a light novel)
LOGH, yes. It's also a book adaptation, so that feels natural...
I completely disagree with the anon up there that said the characters were underdeveloped tropes. Everyone that's outside of Reinhard and Yang's most inner circles are more underdeveloped -- especially people like Poplan, but the main ways they're characterized comes from subtleties and how they deal with the events that happen to them.
Some examples are Yang's war guilt and his desire to return to a civilian life, Reinhard's reactionary mindset shifts after episode 26, etc.
It's a tad unfair to criticize it for lack of character development. I do think they spend way too much time introducing characters that don't really matter in the long run, but due to the nature of the military battles that seems almost necessary.
>>6374952
what the fuck man
>>6374946
If you think all the Kaballah and Christian themes were random you're so fucking retarded it's astounding
There was CLEARLY someone on the team who was into this shit, Anno is lying or being a shit
The real reason Eva sucks is that giant robots are stupid (EVEN IF THEY AREN"T ACTUALLYR OBOTS OMG!!!!) and don't deserve more than a second of anyone's attention
Maybe Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Aoi Bungaku, Mononoke?
>>63749737
Pleb detected
Mecha is the best anime genre. You're missing out on so many great shows
>>6374973
>i'm so superficial that I judge a work of art on the basic plot rather than what the writer actually does with that plot
>>6374978
Zetsubou Sensei isn't funny. It's stupid edgelord humor that pretends pointing things out in a dry tone is clever
>>6374959
There's no way the anime Akira is literary, the manga maybe but the film was nothing but a nicely detailed action film.
>>6374987
There are some ideas with which it is not possible to do anything interesting, and which only debase the works that make use of them.
>entire thread is entry level bullshit
Asking for highbrow anime here is like asking /a/ for highbrow literature. If OP really wants an answer to their question, they'd be better off just asking the diehard elitists on /a/
>>6374999
There are no highbrow anime. There are some pretty good Japanese animations, tho, but they're all independently produced shorts
Does anyone here seriously like Clannad?
>>6374946
>caring about what the author said
>>6375006
I hope not, but I wouldn't put it past some of the dipshits ITT
>>6374951
The whole show was just an extended metaphor of the hedgehogs dilemma. That's really all there is too it.
>>6374999
>entry level cannot be high brow
Full retard. Also, explain to me what high brow is exactly.
>>6374637
Kino's Journey is a failure of a show in every respect. The biggest problems with it lie in its very foundation: each and every one of its conflicts are entirely too brief to say anything substantial, and the few things it does say are completely one-sided. These issues are compounded by weak characters, even weaker production values, and the entire gosh-darned structure of the show being ridiculously flawed. Kino's Journey builds each of its episodes out of the same age-old "what if..." questions we know quite well from sci-fi. The problem is that Kino does not give enough attention to ANY of these questions. The potentially interesting subject of what labor really means, for example, is entirely glossed over simply because the show's format does not allow it to go any further than that. Kino's Journey has a tendency to bite off more than it can chew. Attempting to examine the essence of an extremely broad subject like communication in a mere 20 minutes is almost insulting. These subject require time to breath, to examine different perspectives, to witness them in a more well-rounded and unhurried capacity. Kino's Journey instead opts to be nothing more than a hastily cobbled together and cripplingly insubstantial Cliff's Notes on various schools of thoughts.
It isn't even a matter of it presenting questions for the audience to mull over after the episode is through. No, it answers its own questions, and it does so in the most fallacious, disingenuous way possible. While Kino is a neutral to a fault "character", the show itself clearly has a stake in one side of each conflict. Having a marked perspective in a work is hardly an inherent flaw, but the show stoops to being blatantly reductionistic to the other side of the conflict to make its point. Take the first episode, ostensibly a commentary on the ins and outs of communication: what it actually amounts to is a paltry piece of propaganda. Largely inoffensive propaganda, but propaganda nonetheless. What we're shows is technology being some sort of catalyst for everyone effectively being able to hear each other's id. This leads to everyone voluntarily becoming isolated. This is a crass overgeneralization at best. I mean, this entire club is dedicated to ideas that conflict those in this episode. Technology does not turn us into animals, operating entirely on instinct. But Kino's Journey stealthily ignores any ideas that don't jive with its own, and the end result feels intellectually dishonest at every turn. It wants you to believe in its ideals, its philosophies, and it will stoop as low as necessary to ensure this.
>>6375015
Also problematic is the entire structure of the show! Dissecting societal issues in the way it does ignores the way that different facets of society coalesce. Communication can not be examined in a bubble. Everything around it shapes it, as does the converse. These ideas would be better served integrated more naturally into a better-realized setting (a la GitS SAC). Of course, removing these ideas from their shallow parable-istic (totes not a word) formula would reveal their unflattering bits falling apart at the seams. And we can't have that now, can we?
Nearly everyone Kino meets along her journey is a laughably one-dimensional caricature of whatever idea they represent. The only exception I can think of to this is the girl who is trying to build a plane, but this is only bright point when looked at aside the show's plethora of dead bulbs. Even she is an underdeveloped and idealized character, but at least there's some life to her, something almost human that makes her tick. As for the main characters, Hermes is a dimwitted motorcycle with the perpetual intonation of a child begging his mother to take him to the bathroom. His sole purpose is to give Kino a jumping-off point for her pseudo-philisophical musings, if you could even call them hers; Kino is an empty-slated author mouthpiece of the worst kind. Hiding under the thin veneer of vague nothings that dribble out of her mouth is, well, nothing. It could be argued that she is simply a medium, a means of conveying the journey, which is a fair enough point and one that I can agree with. However, when the journey is as bad as it is, the end result is only recursive shit.
Production values are fatally stilted and obscured by dreadful scan lines. The animation is incredibly stiff in ways that inhibits one's ability to become properly immersed in what little atmosphere the show might have to offer. Pivotal dramatic scenes are rendered hilarious at the hands of this lusterless production, such as the scene where the adult traveler in episode 4 just kind of lumbers himself into a motionless knife. This problem poisons the well and just about every moment in Kino's Journey is worse off for it. Character interactions, the feeble backbone of how the show extolls its half-assed morals/"philosophies", are always inhumanly stiff and difficult to take seriously, completing the perfect picture of a really, really bad show.
>>6374993
The anime was groundbreaking for multiple reasons, but yes only the manga was literary.
>>6374999
LOGH, Tatami, Jin-Roh, Patlabor, Wings of Honneimaise, Texchnolyze, Katanagatari, and Aku no Hana are all confirmed as entry level now. This guy is clearly the only person who knows anime.
>>6374613
There's a lot of great science-fiction in anime if you're into that stuff. Right up there with some of the best books. This anon>>6374871 has excellent taste. Wings of Honneamise is probably one of the best original science-fiction movies ever made. Ideon's great too but Tomino's thing is more heavy homage to the big 3 with his own twist on their stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
>>6374924
Porco Rosso is objectively the best one.
>>6374952
There's nothing wrong with that.
>>6374956
I think that the live-action ones are more interesting, Oshii's writing is much cooler when combined with his direction and Kenji Kawaii's scores. Jin-Roh's still good for being WAY more accessible though, it's also incredibly pretty and incredibly solid overall.
>>6375054
A couple of these arne't only entry level, but they're also bad
The only Japanese animations that aren't entry-level are things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwoJLoQQ5Ig
Ghost in the Shell for sure. Like, if you haven't watched GiTS, stop whatever you're doing and go watch it. Masterpiece.
Also End of Evangelion. I didn't really like NGE, but it's worth watching for the sublime film that is EoE.
>>6375107
>>6375062
Oh really, which of these are bad. Each one had something that made it stand out amongst the rabble, I bet you just love SAO.
>>6375107
But NGE is better than EoE.
>>6375116
The last two
>>6374713
>its not literature because it contains slang
>Good literature must have unnatural dialogue
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>6374628
I'm spitting on the floor as I read this abomination of a post.
>>6374996
'no'
Nausicaa (manga)
Blame! (manga) and Sidonia no Kishi (either)
Princess Tutu
Kino no Tabi
Mushishi
Death Parade (maybe)
Utena
LoGH
NGE obligatory
Haibane Renmai
Spice and Wolf because economics
Baccano
Samurai Flamenco
Lain
Monster
Monogatari
Death Note, maybe
>>6374855
>Psycho Pass
Shitty tribute to muh dystopian novels.I still like it.
>>6374900
Not going to post 300 entries, MALfriend.
>>6375036
stop being so anti intellectual, you cunt. the guy makes good points, even though I like the show.
>>6375125
Awww is rotoscoping too much for you? Is a conclusive ending to a short series something you don't like? Do you enjoy being spoon fed? And entry level, I have yet to meet anyone who only watches mainstream anime that knows about Aku no Hana and Katanagatari.
>>6375154
>Awww is rotoscoping too much for you?
Actually the show was a talented director's pitifully failed attempt to turn an awful manga into something interesting
>>6375152
OP said anime, alsoMonster is overrated shit
Bakamonogatari ruined anime
>>6375159
It's a Stephen King-tier thriller, but it's not nearly as overrated as some of the stuff on that list
>>6375152
Ah, seems like a patrician just showed up at the forum.
>>6375156
Maybe in your opinion, myself and everyone I watched the show with thoroughly enjoyed it, it had a great atmosphere that was genuinely unnerving and the visuals were refreshing in their own way, and the classroom destruction scene was unreal.
>>6375165
>Bakamonogatari ruined anime
Justin Biber ruined rock and roll m8
It's been several hours since I reported this thread and it's still here, pls do your job mods
>>6375169
It's a joke from /a/. I don't mind Monster, but I've never seen the show, only read the manga. The Stephen King comparison sounds about right though.
What about Bartender? That's pretty literary, some of the episodes are about Hemmingway's and I think Fitzgerald's favourite drinks.
For manga I'd recommend Yoshihiro Tatsumi.
>>6375159
Master Keaton is better but Yawawa is Urasawa's best work tied with 20th Century Boys.
>>6375185
Actually it was the Beatles
>>6375186
>It's been several hours since I reported this thread and it's still here, pls do your job mods
>>6375191
He's called a bartender because he makes the bar tender.
>>6375186
Please remember that 4chan has a "hide thread" function. This is important.
>>6375186
>It's been several hours since I reported this thread and it's still here, pls do your job mods
Sad that threads about anime and video games are always the most active ones on the literature board
>>6375186
>It's been several hours since I reported this thread and it's still here, pls do your job mods
>>6375223
Even sadder that video games are becoming a respected art form even sporting events in real life whereas enjoying literature aside from young adult shit is growing more popular.
>>6375156
The manga is a masterpiece though.
