Would anyone be down to read one of the dialogues together? Republic and Laws would probably be hard to do without losing a lot of steam quickly, but maybe one of the shorter ones, like Meno?
i would be up for the Phaedrus
Plato, Socrates, and the Dialogues
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Ideas that can change lives and reveal the world in new ways to the true student
About Your Professor
Michael Sugrue, Ph.D.
Dr. Michael Sugrue is Professor of History at Ave Maria University. A graduate of the Great Books Program, he earned his B.A. in History from the University of Chicago and his M.A., M.Phil., and Ph.D. in History from Columbia University. Prior to taking his position at Ave Maria University, Professor Sugrue taught at Princeton University, the City College of New York, Columbia University, Manhattan College, New York
I started reading Cratylus a month ago but I haven't gotten round to reading it. I want to read it, but I've got stressy shite gon' on and I haven't found the time for old P.
That ramble aside, I'd be glad to make inane speculations and shit post in the Plato discussion threads. Start with Euthyphro, that ones nice.
>>7387431
Plato, Socrates, and the Dialogues
Michael Sugrue, Ph.D.
What Socratic Dialogue is Not
https://youtu.be/mx5qg3dijnU
An excerpt from a superb lecture series conceived and delivered by Dr. Michael Sugrue
>>7387431
Humanities and Liberal Studies
https://youtu.be/qG4lWa5CDeQ
Dr. Michael Sugrue discusses the Humanities and Liberal Studies major
>>7387160
>>7387160
Professor Michael Sugrue's lecture on Phaedrus is lovely
Plato's Parmenides
https://youtu.be/VtOaALjauP0
Dr. Michael Sugrue - boldly leading the listener through the mind-boggling realm of ontological and epistemological instability generated by the devastating attack on the theory of forms by Parmenides, Zeno and the Eleatic school
>>7387514
Ehh, I don't think that's actually all that great a take on Parmenides, truth be told. Lots of stuff he misses and stuff he takes for granted that has to be argued for.
i'd be in
I have only read The Republic, and it's been a while, so I would be interested in reading more.
>>7387160
>>7387452
>>7389041
>>7389070
So we've got suggestions for Phaedrus and Euthyphro. The advantage of Euthyphro is that it's short and concise, and we could get it done in a day. The Phaedrus is much longer (in comparison anyway), but offers many more opportunities for questioning and digging into weird details that we'd otherwise have trouble with if we read it alone (it might be the one we get more out of).
So what say you guys? I'd be willing to do either, or even both if there's enough interest.
>>7390296
phaedrus-anon here. i'm up for the euthyphro. give a date.
are we doing this over skype or something?
>>7390303
I could start as early as tonight, but if that's too soon, maybe Friday, after Thanksgiving shit is over with?
>>7390304
I was figuring we could still do it here, but if there's a preference for Skype or something similar, we could do that instead; I have no strong preference about how we go about.
How might we want to do this? Should we read it first, and then discuss, or read it together and stop and discuss things as they come up? I assume the latter's much easier over Skype.
>>7390342
sure, friday works for me.
skype isn't a bad idea.
>>7390351
Awesome; I'm on the East Coast, and I can make myself available at any time.
>>7390342
>read it first, and then discuss
That's the way to go, the alternative is far too slow and would waste time on stuff that doesn't merit discussion.
Quick off topic question:
Is "starting with the greeks" just a meme or does it actually make sense to go through literature chronologically?
>>7390746
I've been doing it chronologically (though skipping a lot) and I think it helps show connections you might not otherwise see. Currently reading Boethius.
Do you want to know the order I've gone up til now?
>>7390746
It's good for a start. Chronological order is only really recommended for philosophy. Literature you can jump around.
>>7390760
sure!
>>7390776
Fragments - Parmenides
Alcibiades - Plato
Categories - Aristotle
Consolation of Philosophy - Boethius
>>7390746
As >>7390774 notes, it's more helpful for a study of intellectual history than of literature per se, though there are some connections between works of literature that you might otherwise miss, e.g., Virgil's relation to Homer, Dante's relation to Virgil, etc. But largely it's fine to do that with literary works.
Would it seem like a good idea to write down or come up with some questions that we can ask when we get started, just as a way of orienting our discussion?
For anyone who might be interested, here's some tangential info on Euthyphro the character; I'm not sure it's really *necessary*, but it might be interesting nonetheless.
So his name comes from the compounding of two Greek words, "euthy" (straight) and "phron" (thought or mind). Whether his name is used as a pun with respect to his character might be interesting to think about, let alone what "straight-mindedness" might be and if it's otherwise relevant in the dialogue.
Euthyphro doesn't seem to be attested historically, so know one's sure whether he's an historical personage or not; there *are* references in another dialogue, Cratylus, to a Euthyphro, and if it's the same one, the Cratylus might take place later on the same day that Euthyphro does. There are only a few such references, so here's a compilation of those passages, and if they seem to reveal anything interesting, all the better:
1)
Hermogenes: In fact, Socrates, you seem to me practically to be like someone who's suddenly been inspired to chant prophecy.
Socrates: Yes, Hermogenes, and I blame it on Euthyphro, the one from the Prospaltian district, that it's come over me, because I was with him early this morning and lent him my ears for quite a bit. So it's likely that he, being inspired, not only filled my ears with supernatural wisdom, but also gained possession of my soul.
2)
H: And where, my good fellow, would I get it [the source of why humans are called humans]? Even if I were able to find out anything about it, I wouldn't make the effort, because I believe you'll find out more than I can myself.
S: You have faith in Euthyphro's inspiration it seems.
H: Obviously so.
3)
S: Hold still though, if you will, because I seem to be getting a glimmer of something that will be more convincing than that to Euthyphro's circle, since it seems to me they'd look down on that and regard it as unsophisticated; so consider whether the following pleases you. [In reference to an etymology of the word "soul" (psyche) linking it with "restoration" (anapsuchein); the "sophisticated" etymology he replaces that with is "nature-holder" (phuseche).]
4)
S: Let's get off the gods, for the gods' sake, since I'm nervous about discussing them; toss out any other subjects you want for me, though, "so you can see what kind of horses" Euthyphro's got. [A quote from Iliad V 221 and VIII 105.]
5)
S: I'm at a loss about fire. Euthyphro's muse is liable to have left me helpless, or else this is just a superhard word.
6)
Cratylus: You too Socrates seem to me to be making oracular pronouncements that are tolerably well after my own mind, whether you're getting them inspired by Euthyphro, or whether some other Muse has been dwelling in you unnoticed all along.
So much for those.
>>7391173
One more thing maybe interesting to note: the end of the Theaetetus connects itself with the Euthyphro by reference to the Socrates' need to go visit the Porch of the King; I'm not clear on it, but maybe there's a relationship between the inquiry into Piety and the inquiry into Knowledge beyond the obvious question as to whether we "know" what they are. Just a thought.
>>7390826
You should read Thucydides, he's very interesting, especially when combined with seoncdary literature.
>>7391900
>especially when combined with seoncdary literature.
What would you recommend?
>>7391917
I'm a filthy undergrad so I can't be much good, but De Ste Croix's article on the popularity of the athenian empire is a good one. I've read a couple of other things straying into Thucydides criticism but tbqfh you're probably as well off googling a few things. Probably find something on him as the founder of the discussion of realpolitic, commentaries on the debates, just anything which interrogates the text.
>>7391917
Different anon, but I've always like Strauss's chapter on Thucydides in City and Man.
>>7391900
I have Thucydides on there
>>7390826
Have you thought of reading any other Aristophanes plays, like the Clouds or the Birds?
Is Walter Kaufman's Philosophic Classics worth reading?
>>7395341
No, I really didn't like Frogs tвh so i just kinda gave up on him. Should I?
>>7395455
Fair! If you didn't like the Frogs, then perhaps not, with maybe the exception of the Clouds for its presentation of Socrates.
I've been reading a bit more of him recently, and beyond the distracting humor I've just found that he's doing a lot more that's politically interesting in his works than what I remember.
>>7387160
I'd be down, it would be nice to discuss Derrida's reading on it as well
>>7395691
So far it seems to be pretty set on the Euthyphro, but maybe if this goes well, we could do one on the Phaedrus, and look at Derrida's essay.
OP here.
So, for those of us still interested and able, what time might work for us today? Sometime this evening (maybe around 10 EST)?
Oh god I'm gonna show up and it's just going to be me and one other autist and it's going to be impossibly awkward.
>>7395455
The Clouds is really very funny and useful for a view to the sophists. You should also read Lysistrata because it will inform you to the Greek view of women and sex is funny.
>>7396916
I. Can't. Wait.
It'll be fun. Probably.
Alright, starting in about 10 minutes. Skype usernames?
I'm verucasalt035.
>>7398034
onecseven
https://join.skype.com/BA7NVBvuwiWl
How'd it go?
