Why is Literature considered separate from the rest of the Arts?
Painters, sculptors, muralists, weavers, photographers, musicians, actors, they all seem to have some sense of "Artistic Brotherhood" that they push writers away from and that writers seem to be more than willing to stay away from.
They might accept poets, but the simply novelist is simply unwelcomed at the Arts' lunch table.
Why is that?
>>7380502
Most people in those fields are actually pretty stupid, even the most successful ones. Andy Warhol had a sub-90 IQ, for example. They're mostly fraudsters, wasted of space incapable of anything valuable. The best writers have a knack for language, precision and emotional impact that brings their art closer to earth, which scares the hell out of charlatans. At least many bad writers recognize and want to emulate the good ones, but someone who paints smeary nudes for senile old playboys in Florida can't help but feel insecure around that kind of honesty and mental sharpness.
>>7380685
this desu senpai
>>7380502
I've never heard of or experienced this prejudice towards writers.
>>7380700
I wrote >>7380685
It does seem like a lot of visual and performing artists I know don't appreciate literature very well, while the bookish folks I know are into everything. On the other hand, my friends who work in design and architecture seem to like literature and admire the craftsmanship in good fiction. I think writers and people in more "applied" creative fields get each other because today craftsmanship isn't as important to the fine visual arts.
>>7380502
>Painters, sculptors, muralists, weavers, photographers, musicians, actors, they all seem to have some sense of "Artistic Brotherhood" that they push writers away from and that writers seem to be more than willing to stay away from.
words are too strange. writers and other artists don't work in the same realms.
Painters and Photographers do not get along.
As one painter friend once said, "We MAKE Art, Photographers TAKE Art."
>>7380685
emphatically wrong
>>7380943
Butthurt "graphic designer" detected
What a load of rubbish.
>>7380685
LMAO
Have you ever dealt with them? Only classically trained musicians are bearable, the rest are awful. Not to say most writers aren't awful. Most actors are pretentious little children. Visual artists are the same except they're also massive hacks. Photographers are rarely ever artists.
>>7381554
Oh. And my point was that there is more literature dealing with the pretense of the arts, and for that reason it is separate.
>>7380502
'Sometimes people write novels and they just be so wordy and so self-absorbed. I am not a fan of books. I would never want a book's autograph. I am a proud non-reader of books.'
kanye west worth millions of dollars says it all
>>7381554
What about conceptual or performance artists? srs question.
>>7381565
Worst of the worst. Real visual artists hate those faggots.
>>7381558
If you keep up with Kanye at all it is painfully evident he's read Marx and Rawls (at least).
>>7381554
Anoyone to do with theater is a special kind of shit these days. They think they have a greater understanding of the text because they act, even though they just talk about a single characters feelings or spout what an undergraduate lit professor told them in their 3 gen ed lit courses.
I tend to think composers are hit and miss on being turboplebs. Some of them are really widely knowledgeable, others try to act like they are.
Weavers are craftspeople for the most part.
On the other hand, a lot of writers are shitty people to know. Also the fields require totally different things. Writers of longer works need to be capable of long hours of isolation, actors need to be in hours of rehearsal for their work, same with many musicians. Painters, sculptors, and composers seem to have more in common with novelists.
>>7381614
what
>>7381594
This. Very few of them do anything of value. Some are amazing and have amazing foresight, but otherwise we think they're hacks who don't have actual artistic talent and are taking the easy way out.
>>7381630
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kanye+interview+2015&page=&utm_source=opensearch
>>7381640
I'm not watching hours of kanye interviews. I actually have books to read unlike that faggot. Give me some quotes anon.
>>7381652
What is "commodity fetish," can you tell me that, anon?
Stop using that word. It's 2015.
>>7381658
It's when I can't stop fucking your mom
>>7381658
>>7381703
Anyone know of some good books about a group of artists that are varied and diverse?
The only one's I can think of are "La Vie de Bohème" and Zola's "The Masterpiece"
What is it about France that makes them more interested in Artist circles?
>>7380502
that literally doesn't happen?
artists(writers included) segregate by quality of expression, not by what they are per se. sure you have painters that only hang out with painters etc etc but those people are generally boring and do the bare minimum to qualify themselves as such.
as someone who plays music, my favorite people to talk to have been writers. i can't stand most 'musicians' desu.
>>7381953
>desu
I can see why most people can't stand you...
>>7381960
word filter you daft cunt
>>7380502
Literature is less emotional than other art forms.
>>7382192
How counterfactual, you mad, mustachio, purple-hued malt-worm.
>>7382296
You're a fool if you think lit isn't the most pretentious board on 4chan.
>>7380932
This is overly reductionist. I am a painter who writes, and I get along with photographers for the most part. Helps if they're into analog process and especially experimenting with hand developing their negatives, or light painting onto the negative as a canvas, no camera body required. Then it's easy as pie to relate and get along.
>>7380502
I dislike "artists" in other fields vastly preferring to fraternize with people at least relating to my own field. I find especially performance artists and visual artists unbearably moronic.
>>7380502
Theater people just strike me as sluts.
They take enjoyment in infidelity and being sexually deviants on a public stage.
>>7380502
Theatre can be split up
>Musical theatre singers : retarded, special snowflake, sluts
>Opera Singers: Actually know what they're doing. Put effort in their work.
I think some might regard literature as more of an intellectual labour than an artistic one.
>>7380502
If you think what you wrote is actually true then you need to kill yourself.
You must be trolling, because if you actually knew what the fuck you were talking about, you would never honestly make that statement.
>>7384393
Touched a soft spot, did he lad?
>>7384393
Maybe you're overreacting.
>>7381554
As edgy as true
>>7382787
>Theater people just strike me as sluts.
this
theater is dead
>>7384393
Wew lad
>>7382787
It's nothing more than cheap directors looking for cheap shock value in the audience. I hate them all and I will always be in the frontline when it comes to calling them pseudo intellectuals but we must distinguish between what's a lack of profundity and sinple, well, acts
>>7380711
This
Words are in a whole other level of artistry than shapes and sounds. Shapes (painters, sculptors, etc.) are universal and appreciated by anyone with eyes, same with sounds. Whereas words deal with the mind.
Same with mathematics and abstract sciences vs. physical sciences.
The ability to turn expression into words is a mechanical and analytical activity.
Painters, sculptors, muralists, weavers, photographers, musicians all use their senses and skills that are physical in nature. Writing is mental masturbation. There is no physicality to it. Your ability to string symbols together is easy. That is why there are so many writers and that's why writers get so much shit for calling themselves writers.
>>7382507
/lit/ is very pretentious, but it is not nearly as pretentious as /mu/. The patrician/pleb dichtomy has become an actual thing to the people who browse it.
>>7384622
That's what someone who would listen to meme rap would say.
>>7384429
Oh they are sluts. I have a friend who is a set builder and manager. The actors were all high and fucking each other and having drama over it all the time.
Theater isn't dead. It's harder to find people able to appreciate the beauty of live performance though.
>>7384625
>Implying rap isn't by definition mediocre bullshit.
You can even have the most insightful and linguistically talented rapper in the world. It's still just some dude speaking lines over a digital beat
>>7384610
This is terribly oversimplified. As literature is language, as language is thought, and as thought is a key part of our conscious, literature is the most organic art. Though there are striking differences between literature and painting, which has its impulses in the physical realm, disqualifying literature, the only wholly unobjective art, from being art is a very hasty and unwise decision. Further analysis and understanding is required before we define literature or art as a whole.
>>7384625
I don't care for rape music.
>>7384639
Literature the most organic art? Dance, painting, sculpting all came first and therefore are more organic to human nature
>>7384610
>implying most artists in most media aren't just masturbating and posing
Everyone who doesn't make a good living on their craft gets made fun of for calling themselves any kind of artist. It's just about social expectations, not judgement about the medium.
>>7384644
>human nature
>>7384644
>>7384644
Agreed. If anything literature is one of the least "organic" arts. It requires the most refining.
>>7384654
>Did not understand
No, you're just full of shit.
and you actually think rappers don't by definition restrict themselves to be mediocre.
>>7384655
Even artists can edit and revise their work shit head.
Literature is a very well thought out and meticulous art. It is very emotional, but it is emotion captured and translated. visual/ audible art is more catharsis, and instinctual. More so an emotional release as opposed to an emotional capture. Thats not to say that there aren't crossings between the realms of musical catharsis and written genius.
Kanye is a good example. Any listener of Kanye will realize his music is actually amazing, and his artistic vision is constantly realized through his music. Now his lyrics on the other hand, are typically bad. He has some lines that aren't bad, and at times it is evident he had a good idea but could not realize it properly through words. That side of expression does not come as good to him as it does to Kendrick
>>7384665
lol going all out, arent we
>>7384661
No, you didn't understand it. I say this because you think that the time an art is made relative to another decides its relevance to the human conscious. I would like you to come up with less retarded validation for your claim. If you can, I'll gladly recant.
P.S It is painfully obvious that you don't listen to rap. Pls stop arguing about it.
>>7384665
>kendrick
Meme rap. Stopped Reading there.
>>7381614
The amount of effort people will put into pretending Kanye isn't retarded is kind of irritating. You know it's possible to like somebody's art and still acknowledge they're an idiot, right?
>>7384681
You're argument is completely based on the fact that you have no applicable skill set outside of writing.
>>7384698
My argument is explicitly based on the fact that language is an integral part of the conscious. Therefore, it is more relevant to it than sculpting, dance, whatever. I don't know how to make it more clear. If you can't understand this, then you shouldn't be here.
>>7384692
I wouldn't say that he's an idiot. He's just incredibly awkward and is surrounded by yes men who will placate him. I think he's actually slightly on the spectrum. It'd explain his savant-like qualities as a producer.
You could say that he has huge ego issues, but he isn't an idiot.
>>7384719
Expression is a deeper part of consciousness, language is just a byproduct.
>>7384746
People in popular music do this all the time.
Not just rappers.
>>7384757
I once dated a "painter"
She gave great head
I'm talking the best goddamn head I've ever had
She also would be dead if not for her father paying for her way in life
>>7380685
Nice mêmes.
>>7384764
>tru
Then why are you specifically going after rappers like they're the only offenders here?
>>7384769
I'm not trying to, if that is how it sounds. I would apply my statement to the vast majority of popular figures.
>>7384764
I was using your exact argument structure. If what I said was fluff then your post I was replying to was fluff as well and I'm still right.
>>7384777
I think you need to get over yourself and learn how to have fun again. I see you linked 'The Recognitions' as a favourite read in another thread - You don't need to be Anselm but don't try so hard to live like Stanley.. Lighten up, buddy.
>>7384759
All "artistic" women are insane. Don't trust them.
>music is a visceral, instinctual art form and does not require any mental ability
wew
>>7380502
OP, i recommend to you The Art Spirit from Robert Henri.
“Through art mysterious bonds of understanding and of knowledge are established among men. They are the bonds of a great Brotherhood. Those who are of the Brotherhood know each other, and time and space cannot separate them. The Brotherhood is powerful. It has many members. They are of all places and of all times. The members do not die. One is member to the degree that he can be member, no more, no less. And that part of him that is of the Brotherhood does not die. The work of the Brotherhood does not deal with surface events. Institutions on the world surface can rise and become powerful and they can destroy each other. Statesmen can put patch upon patch to make things continue to stand still. No matter what may happen on the surface the Brotherhood goes steadily on. It is the evolution of man. Let the surface destroy itself, the Brotherhood will start it again. For in all cases, no matter how strong the surface institutions become, no matter what laws may be laid down, what patches may be made, all change that is real is due to the Brotherhood.”
― Robert Henri, The Art Spirit
“I have heard it very often said that an artist does not need intelligence, that his is the province of the soul”
― Robert Henri, The Art Spirit
>>7384610
This shit is half the reason I can into poetry but not other writing forms. It's easier to relax and let the words just bubble out to express whatever the fuck is going on. With long form writing, it's much more analytic, directed and frankly disgusting. That's why I paint, nerfs thought.
>>7384639
>literature
>only unobjective art
Pull your head out of your ass man.
Because painters and what not are more likely to be like pic-related.
I feel most writers are more self-controlled than this.
>>7380685
You're not going to find geniuses in the field of Modern Art that's for sure, but actual fine artist that practice in ateliers and such are actually quite smart.
>>7384654
I think he was going more in the direction of the rapper limiting himself. Rap is, most of the time at least, a 3-5 minute song with a minute of it being chorus. If he is good with language and has something to say, why does he limit himself so much? Wouldn't some other literary form suit him better?
Of course you could argue that you will make more money if you do rap, but if he cares about money so much is the content of his text so important? I think Pop-music is showing that simple contents and melodies sell the best.
>>7386029
>You're not going to find geniuses in the field of Modern Art that's for sure
Modern Art is basically Chinese factory tier. They shit out shit on demand for some rich idiot or his idiot wife to buy for a couple hundred thousand or million dollars so they can circle jerk around it for ten minutes the next time they host a little get-together.
>>7385934
I know many writers who would think that comic was made about them.
