You have 10 seconds to prove LGBT-hate isn't sexism against Men.
>>6565787
It probably stemmed from ancient societies needing more reproduction, gay male sex spreading dangerous STDs, and straight men not wanting men to be gay because then they would have a perceived sexual predator to deal with.
And then all that was written into religious books.
>>6565787
You have 10 seconds to prove that 2+2 does not equal 5.
Didnt you just make a similar thread a few hours/days ago?
>>6565854
>>6565834
*And yes, Homophobia/Transphobia is oppression against Men.
>>6565856
Yes with a new twist.
I'm sick of:
The Right - Telling me to Man up / follow my gender roles.
The Left - Telling me i'm privileged while portraying men as evil.
Men are being squeezed from both sides.
I just want androgyny.
>>6565865
>And yes, Homophobia/Transphobia is oppression against Men.
No it isn't. Homophobia is oppression against homosexuals and transphobia is oppression against transgenders.
>>6565879
No it's not.
People ONLY hate homosexuals/transgenders because they are breaking their gender roles.
If you rid sexism against men,
you rid homophobia and transphobia.
It's not sexism itself, but it's caused by the same root.
Gender roles.
Anything that deviates from them is instantly condemned, be it women being actual people, men having emotions and not being terrible people on purpose, people attempting to change their gender, or people expressing sexual interests that clash with the ones assigned to them by their gender role.
Sexism, homophobia and transphobia are all the same shit. It's just people clinging to fucking gender roles because they get brainwashed with this shit when they're young and then it gets embedded so deep i their psyche that they don't even realize it's there. Most people would have no idea what you're talking about if you asked them what a gender role was, but they'd very easily be able to tell you what a person conforming to gender roles should be like.
The entire system needs to be abolished. It serves absolutely no purpose, and it just breeds hatred and misery. The most positive thing to come out of it is fetishization of gender roles, which honestly really isn't that positive.
If just stopped teaching this shit in schools it wouldn't be such a huge problem. If we just banned shit like this
>This is a man, you can tell because he has a blue shirt on!
>This is a woman, you can tell because she has a pink a dress!
The world would be a better place in just a single generation.
>>6565909
I like the way you think, anon!
Keep at it.
>>6565895
>People ONLY hate homosexuals/transgenders because they are breaking their gender roles.
First of all that's bullshit.
Secondly, even if it were the case it still doesn't make it the same thing, because then sexism against men would be because they are men, while homophobia/transphobia would be because they're breaking the gender roles.
>>6565934
If a straight man gets shit for wearing a pink shirt, he is experiencing Misandry, not homophobia.
>>6565934
>First of all that's bullshit.
Name ONE REASON that people hate LGBT people that doesn't boil down to either gender roles(men shouldn't be allowed to have sex with men, it's disgusting! you can't change your gender, it's disgusting!), ignorance and misinformation(gays are literally vampires that bite people and infect them with homosexual chemtrails in order to spread HIV and AIDS to further Satan's goals), or prudishness and general salt(people shouldn't be allowed to have casual sex, its disgusting!)
Every reason anyone has ever had to hate gay/trans people has been rooted in gender roles, whether they realized it or not.
>>6565934
Here's the thing.
Sexism:
-Not ONLY hatred of a gender
-Also is when you've given them roles based on their gender
Example:
1. "Women are such weaklings"
>That's Sexism
2. "It's a Woman's job to stay home with the kids"
>That's sexism too
And that same logic applies to Misandry
>>6565990
Right on the money
>>6565950
>>6565990
>>6565994
Here's the evolutionary branch of humanity.
Now, place "discrimination" at the very left and work from there to the right by filling in different forms of discrimination.
You'll soon find out why my views are the way they are.
>>6565787
lesbians
On the topic of misandry, it's a very paradoxical thing and I think that's part of why it's never recognized as valid.
Dominance, strength, stoicism, power, influence, wealth, superiority. These are all seen as masculine traits. Society expects men to be in positions of privilege because that's what the male role dictates.
This is tricky because it means men who can conform to their assigned role will succeed and excel beyond what they otherwise would have. They benefit greatly from the system, and will usually go on to perpetuate it, hence the moniker "patriarchy".
On the flipside, men who cannot conform to their assigned role are mistreated and oppressed for it. They are criticized as not being "real men" and are erased from society, or marginalized and distanced from the successful men. This is misandry, but it doesn't get called that because the victims aren't being victimized for being men, they're being victimized for being "failed" men. It usually ends up being classified as homophobia, because any man who doesn't fit their gender role is instantly branded as gay. Even if they're not, people will just assume that they're making up bullshit to try and stay in the closet.
Man sometimes I wish I wasn't such an autistic little shit so I could actually sleep at night instead of staying up until 4 AM pondering the impact gender roles have on modern society.
>>6566059
Sorry those instructions aren't getting through to me.
Do you mind filling them out for me?
Or at least starting 2 of them?
I genuinely don't understand what you mean.
>>6566070
Well, that's a case of Misogyny
Some societies allow Lesbians and Transmales, because homosexuality and "trying to be as good as men" (as some call it) are filed under female gender norms.
>>6566086
[It's because of the narrative, I wrote this for you:]
Men have been forced into the disposable sex roles since the Neanderthal period.
Since only Females can give birth, Men and Women had their gender roles divided based on "Women being reproduction centers" and "Men being disposable defenders".
Women got shitty sheltered jobs. Men got shitty dangerous jobs.
And since Leadership meant risk (Lions, enemy tribes), leading was too much of a risk to the female womb.
The only reason Men have been leaders in history, is because the job has a high rate of death.
So don't tell me that Men aren't oppressed.
The only reason gay/trans people are hated, is because they are not blindly following their oppressive gender roles.
>>6566092
>I genuinely don't understand what you mean.
Homophobia is discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity.
Thus transphobia and for example biphobia are both subcategories of homophobia (aka they're related because their parent is homophobia), yet they're not the same (they're a different branch).
Now assuming that homosexuality is discrimination based on perceived gender roles like sexism, it'd be a different branch than misandry and misogyny for the same reason (they're related, but a different branch).
I wish avataring was allowed
>>6566285
I guess i can see homophobia in the sense of "this won't make us reproduce!".
So i guess there is homophobia not directly deviated from gender norms.
But I'd say most is. All the "gross" or "uncomfortable" aspects are sexism.
>>6565895
You do realize that there are gay women and trans people of both genders, right?
>>6566409
Well the statement in the OP was that lgbt hate (homophobia) = sexism against men (misandry).
Which is not the case since misandry must involve males, while homophobia does not.
That and it's not a 2 way street.
Homophobia is sexism, but sexism isn't homophobia (assuming there is a relation).
>>6565800
First one is good, but two other reasons are garbage. STDs, for one, were not really a problem back then.
But far more likely it's just that the monogamous heterosexual life-long couples that are just so good for society to flourish are not something that people actually want to do all that much. So this ideal sexual communism only works if it's the only game in town, but it won't be the only game in town if you also have gay people, so they had to go.
Of course, now marriage is broken beyond repair, so we really ought to stop hating gay people already.
>>6566409
>I guess i can see homophobia in the sense of "this won't make us reproduce!".
This is not a genuine fear that anyone has.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, in their right mind is genuinely afraid that a lack of reproduction is some kind of threat to themselves or society.
Only braindead /pol/tards and other tinfoil clad anti-semites think that maximized reproduction is still imperative for our survival.
Anyone who claims that they're against gay people because only straight couples can reproduce is probably full of shit. If they're not actively having and raising children and sharing their discrimination and hatred with nonfertile heterosexuals and people who are willingly choosing to not have children, then they are definitely full of shit and probably just don't want to admit to themselves or others that they hate gay people for no justifiable reason.
>>6566455
>>6566416
You both have fair points.
But my main point: all homophobia/transphobia is stems from gender roles. It is BOTH misandry and misogyny.
I am so focused on building the MRA reputation, that I seem androcentric sometimes. Thanks for pointing that out.
>>6566463
Marriage is broken now. But it still can be repaired.
But marraige was always a dumb concept.
Dating slavery?
Then again, I'm not afraid of being unwantable.
>>6566555
I'm 90% certain gay/trans people are hated because of gender norms.
>>6566463
Humans are pair bonders, so monogamy is something that they desire eventually -or at least about 95% of them do. How long that pair bond lasts may be up for debate but children always do better with two biological parents, when all other things are equal so it's probable that the pair bond was meant to last longer than the 7yr itch.
Marriage has only become broken in the modern western societies that have gone through the 2nd wave feminism movement and the related post-feminist LGBT-rights movement. So maybe the homophobes & transphobes and the 19070s anti-feminists were correct all along.
>>6565909
Gender roles are for social order and cohesion. There is nothing wrong with this. Those who deviate from these norms should be treated no different, but recognized as deviations from the norm, not the norm itself.
OP here
Men's Rights Activist Skype:
https://join.skype.com/qIInpvQlJOSM
op?
>>6568769
yes?
>>6565800
I agree with #1. Took a Biblical Archeology class in undergrad and our professor explained that was the reason homosexuality was viewed so badly in the old testament. Israel (along with other tribes) were small and by not reproducing you were harming society by not contributing back to the population. The other reason was children were seen as a gift from God since people didn't have retirement the kids were expected to take care of people in their old age. By being gay you were forsaking God's gift of a prosperous old age.
#2 is wrong. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis
As for #3 I dunno
>>6565787
>firefox
>>6570850
why do you want me to use firefox?
>>6565787
people hate men that act likewomen.
people hate women that dont stay in their place and act like women.
>>6572705
implying people don't hate men who act like men?
you mean like war? men killing men because they act like male stereotypes?
or you mean women who hate men and their "toxic masculinity"?
You seem to say "people" hate women.
But you are only taking in the opinions of what you think is white males?
you yourself are missing out on a demographic's opinions, which means you see them as less valuable.
>>6572829
Agreed.
But I have to promote the Men's Rights Movement.
I don't like it when Women face sexism either.
But people laugh at you when you suggest Men face sexism, I must change that.
>>6572716
war is glorified. Sure more men are soldiers.
So a statisticly insignificant portion of women call something "toxic masculinity" and it changes thousands of years of men being mostly the ones running things and all that
>>6572867
Women have always glorified the male stereotype.
And Men have always glorified the female stereotype.
>>6572865
To be quite honest it's not a rights movement. Is there any legal right that differentiates men and women?
>>6572887
Yes.
Would you like a small list of three?
Half of them, dropped, since Women are being drafted. Women being drafted was HUGE. Because Men couldn't get social security unless they signed up for the draft.
The first one, is in this pic. But there are MANY others.
>>6572887
I promise, it is not a Male Supremacy group.
It's more like Feminism for Men, if anything.
>>6572904
I didn't want to go there, but that would be very much accurate.
>>6572941
Well too bad.
Being MRA will be popular in the future.
>>6572716
>implying people don't hate men who act like men?
For the most part, that's something that only extreme radical feminists and AGPs with internalized misogyny do. Men do have it worse in some areas (expected to be okay with danger and violence, and shamed for showing emotions or weakness), but overall, feminine men have it worse than masculine men. It's not like being a feminine guy is a way to get "female privilege", outside of the LGBT community being a feminine guy just means you're a failed man.
>you mean like war? men killing men because they act like male stereotypes?
Men kill each other in war because they're the enemy, because those other men will invade your country if not stopped. It has nothing to do with acting traditionally masculine or anything like that. Even if our military was made up entirely of women or femboys for whatever reason we'd still be fighting wars for the same political reasons.
>or you mean women who hate men and their "toxic masculinity"?
As mentioned above, this is only a subset of radical feminism, and while you encounter them frequently in feminist communities online, they don't really have the power to change social norms irl. And "toxic masculinity" doesn't mean all masculinity is bad, it's about certain "harmful" aspects of traditional masculinity, like the fact that some men feel they need to be aggressive and violent to be accepted as men.
>You seem to say "people" hate women.
They didn't say women in general, but specifically women who violate gender roles and don't "stay in their place". And no, this isn't something just white men do. If anything, it's more common in more traditional cultures. But the idea that a woman is obligated to be feminine and beautiful and be willing to have sex with her husband and all that is common throughout most cultures to some extent, since the vast majority of human societies are patriarchal.
>>6572887
It depends on what you mean by "legal right". Some would argue that reproductive rights are unequal, though for practical purposes you can't give both sexes equal rights, since the female actually bears the child. Even if we allowed the male to opt out of child support (which is easier said than done, there would have to be some criteria or ALL men could opt out of making any contribution to raising the child), it would still be an issue if the woman didn't want a child but the male did. In that case either the woman would be forced to be unable to work for several months due to pregnancy, and go through the pain of childbirth, all for a child she doesn't want - or the guy would have to settle for not having a child. The only real way to make a situation like that "equal" would be to have the male financially compensate the woman for bearing the child.
And there is some sexist bias in the legal system with regards to certain crimes, though the laws as written aren't really gender-specific.
>>6572897
>Because Men couldn't get social security unless they signed up for the draft.
Is social security really the main issue though? I mean, I thought not signing up for selective service was outright illegal, and lack of social security would basically be the LEAST of your problems.
