Reminder that liberals view muslims as being higher on the oppression scale, so they're abandoning their LGBT "allies".
>>6454522
You're a bit late to the party bud
>>6454522
Liberals just know that muzzies are the fastest growing religion, and thus the fastest growing voter base.
The only purpose of The Party is to keep The Party in power.
>>6454565
Who's agenda is at work here?
Isslime is the most conservative, barbaric religion out there, and holds views that are the complete opposite of what liberals claim to stand for.
Yet they'll accuse gays of being "too privileged, t b h" and jump to the defense of the raghead.
Is it simply that mudslimes are 99.9% brown people?
>>6454522
we already know this and changed our party affiliation.
>>6454584
Partially, but more that they know they'll get votes if they pander to them, which is all that matters to them in the short term.
I have no idea what they plan for the long term when the barbarians make up the majority.
>>6454522
>b-but even though there is know hard evidence that he's gay through sheer speculation I can confirm that the attack was based on internalized homophobia, nothing to do with religion at all
>>6454617
*no
>>6454617
anyone who continues to say this should be sent to a gas chamber
>>6454617
>calls police and pledges his allegiance to isis, was investigated by the FBI for terrorist connections, his father was an extremist
>HIS MOTIVATION WAS CLEARLY INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA CAUSED BY WHITE PEOPLE
>>6454637
Hardly the narritive that has been pushed and many Americans now believe is that he was gay (once again no evidence just speculation) conveniently taking the attention away from Islam
>>6454653
Everything I've seen on that line says it was an additive effect not entirely internalized homophobia
But you can't greentext about that as easily
>>6454662
But can tou provide any real evidence of him being gay? You can't have internalized homophobia unless you are gay, there is no porn on his computers, gay dating apps don't have him in their data base and his "lovers" that have come foward are obviously attention whores exploiting the situation, so stop pushing this bullshit narritive until you have hard irrefutable evidence
>>6454691
I'm not pushing the narrative
>>6454522
>tfw liberals love muslims so much they focus on that the shooter was gay and had muh feels and not that he was driven to mental illness by oppressive muslim beliefs
I apologize to all Muslims for offending their religious beliefs with my homosexual actions that are considered haram.
>>6454704
Him being gay is pure speculation, his religion is perfectly clear, it's funny how a lady refusing to bake a cake is demonized, but a man indoctrinated at a young age to hate homosexuality can target lgbts and still have the liberal defense squad back him this hard
>>6454723
the lady was white
omar was a shitskin
race > everything
>>6454704
FBI has confirmed he wasn't gay.
>>6454762
But libcucks and the news media have to find SOMETHING to blame it on that isn't Islamic terrorism, because that would be wacist!
>tfw Hillary plans to import ten million ragheads during the first year of her rein
>gay people cheer this
Tbh, liberal gays will deserve the treatment that they'll get from Muslims if leftism is triumphant.
>>6454739
yep.
This is it.
The end.
We can all go home now.
>>6454789
*reign
*would
![NewLogCabinRepublicansLogo[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/svS1SJW.jpg "NewLogCabinRepublicansLogo[1].jpg")
>>6454522
The Democrats aren't our allies anymore since we've gotten what we wanted.
Time to vote Trump!
Who would you trust more?
Straight lefties who push a dangerous media view while they themselves stay out of danger?
Or perhaps a well known gay politician who was murdered by a straight leftie because of his views on islam and leftie ideals?
>>6454850
>literally identity single issue voting
>>6454854
>because Pim wasn't right on all issues he talked about
Of course he wouldn't have been shot if he were wrong.
>>6454850
Pim was the hero we needed
>>6454889
>persecution complex too
Damn you guys are using the Frankfurt school handbook perfectly
>>6454904
>argument so ad hominem instead
>>6454904
>Frankfurt school handbook
What does some random /pol/ conspiracy tinfoil hat school have to do with a shot politician who was shot by a butthurt leftie because disagreeing should be illegal?
>>6454946
I'm saying the current alt-right narrative uses all the stuff the decry from leftists perfectly, like identity politics (eg nationalism) and framing yourself as oppressed
>>6454973
>the current alt-right narrative uses all the stuff the decry from leftists perfectly
That man was from killed in 2002.
That was merely a year after gay marriage became legal for the first time.
That man started his mission 20 years ago.
That was in 1996. One year after homosexuality was removed from the DSM.
That man was born in 1948.
What were you saying about "framing yourself as oppressed" again?
>>6455048
I said that the alt-right portrays itself as oppressed, I don't know wtf youre on about
>>6455048
Lol presenting facts to a brainwashed "progressive" liberal is a waste of time, this is coming from someone who is incredibly liberal, it's hard to believe good neo liberals are at alienating everyone
>>6455075
*how
>>6455070
>I said that the alt-right portrays itself as oppressed, I don't know wtf youre on about
Then why the fuck are you talking about the alt right in the first place?
>>6455101
Because it's what was being discussed in other posts? Maybe not nominally but definitely it was invoked
>>6455108
Then why reply to a post about a man from before the alt right became a thing, talking about framing oppression as if he pretended he was oppressed?
A man who actually lived in times where oppression in the west actually was a thing.
>>6455120
Because the poster was using his death to propel the idea of oppression of the alt right 14 years later
Did you not follow the convo or something
>>6455125
Obviously you didn't, the original post framed him as a victim that killed for a different opinion, which he was, you just got triggered because someone pointed out a victim of extreme leftist ideals.
My only ally is my bf
>>6455182
>for having a different opinion
Which is alt-right style wording
>triggered
At least you openly admit you're trash
>>6455223
Once gain no argument so you resort to ad hominem attacks, you made a great job at arguing your point anon :^) I'm a liberal btw
>>6455264
>implying you had any argument
Using the :^) face is an admission of loss
>>6455279
The irony
>>6455296
I'll take your word for it senpai
>>6454642
>CAUSED BY WHITE PEOPLE
White people are the most tolerant of gays. Why do people think white hate gays but everyone else is killing gays.
>>6455125
>the poster was using his death to propel the idea of oppression of the alt right 14 years later
>things that didn't happen
Just because I use the decade old ideas of a man who was murdered for his opinion in a comparison with the opinions of (also decade old at least in Europe) views of liberal people, doesn't mean I'm somehow pretending alt-right are oppressed, when the worst they have is a bunch of smelly jobless AFA fucks.
The whole "you're using his death to propel the idea of oppression of the alt right 14 years later" is literally in your head.
>>6454565
>Import more Mudslimes to get votes
>Increase Mudslime population more and more over years
>A few generations down the line your children are enjoying Sharia law
gg liberals no re
>>6454584
Liberals are anti-west, Muslims are anti-west, they're perfect for each other.
>>6454522
Yep. And the cunts will breed like rabbits and all the whites who are left will be living under sharia so the queers will be falling off buildings.
>>6454584
Liberalism is about destroying the white man. The gay rights movement was convenient for a while because it pissed off republicans, but now Muslims are better at tearing apart countries so we're straight in the bin.
In politics... race > everything. Always has, always will.
>>6454522
I'm a straight Muslim male. Ask me anything.
>>6454617
Why would he use gay dating apps and go to gay bars for months if he's not gay?
>>6454642
He also pledged allegiance to other terrorist groups that completely hate each other. He seems to have basically been some kind of fanboy/wannabe rather than a real Islamic terrorist.
>>6454704
If someone isn't mentally ill to begin with, they're not going to be made mentally ill just by oppressive religious beliefs.
>>6454889
>Of course he wouldn't have been shot if he were wrong.
This is basically the Galileo fallacy - thinking that being opposed proves that you are right.
>>6455264
"Triggered" is itself essentially an ad hominem though. It basically says "you're a blue-haired sheltered SJW that can't deal with the real world, therefore your opinion is irrelevant."
>>6466699
>why would he use gay apps
Except he didn't
>why would he go to the gay bar he shot up
Because no one ever scouts out the location they're gonna shoot up
>he pledged allegiance to groups that hate each other
Because Islamic terrorist groups have never had common goals and enemies
Why do you apologize and make so many excuses for the guy anon?
>>6466765
>Because no one ever scouts out the location they're gonna shoot up
Why would it take YEARS to do the scouting?
>Because Islamic terrorist groups have never had common goals and enemies
That's like saying you could pledge allegiance to both Nazi Germany and England during WWII on account of them both having the "common goal" of not wanting the human race to go extinct.
>Why do you apologize and make so many excuses for the guy anon?
Because he doesn't seem to have a really good understanding of Islamist politics. He seems to be a wannabe who did commit an actual terrorist attack, but without really understanding any of the groups he pledged allegiance to.
>>6466790
>first it's months, now it's years
Ok
>being dedicated to the spread of radical islam and destruction of infidels is hardly a common goal
Ok
>you have to perfect understanding of the groups you pledge allegiance to, to be a pawn
Ok
>>6466820
>Ok
After making the original post I remembered the statement I heard was actually three years.
>being dedicated to the spread of radical islam and destruction of infidels is hardly a common goal
It isn't a common goal if you disagree on what "radical islam" actually means and who the "infidels" are
>you have to perfect understanding of the groups you pledge allegiance to, to be a pawn
Not a perfect understanding, but pledging allegiance to two groups that want each other dead really doesn't make much sense.
>>6466790
Straight people who have tried to beat me up or rob from me for being gay first stalked me for years on many, many occasions. It takes that trash years to work up the courage to do their evil deeds, usually.
>>6466863
The mental gymnastics you go through to make excuses for the guy is outstanding...
>>6466916
You could perhaps try addressing some of those points rather than just dismissing it as "mental gymnastics" (which is really just shorthand for "I'm really not open to considering possibilities that go against my opinions")
>>6466916
I think there's some sort of genetically inspired mental compulsion in most gay people to protect straight people at all costs. Which would explain most gay peoples' willingness to go so far as to tell judges not to give straight people who try to kill them any prison time at all most of the time. Add to that the fact that the person you're responding to is a straight Christian conservative trying to promote gay murder, and there you go.
Human reaction, from mental instincts to actually putting their body into motion, takes about 1/10 of a second. That is, if something comes naturally and you don't need to think about it, it still takes 1/10 of a second to do it, after you've realized you need to do it. Every gay should be ready to spend live in prison, get murdered, or get crippled in order to put a straight attacker in the morgue less than 1/10 of a second after they realize how straight the straight person is. I've pulled out my knife and attacked straight attackers in about 1/10 of a second before, because it's my duty.
>>6466926
I did but you come up with any excuse to protect the guy, including speculation, don't know what else to say cause it'll never get through to you
>>6454522
What is the deal with that anyway? How does anyone not see that this gigantic religion where even the most moderate of believers are as bad as fucking westboro baptist might be a problem?
>>6467000
Because both straight people and gay people have a genetically inspired mental compulsion to protect straight people no matter what they really deserve. Unless there's something "wrong" with them.
Daily reminder that Omar Mateen didn't even practice Islam and was a self-hating gay, Conservatives are fear-mongering in order to pit LGBT against Muslims because both groups vote liberal, and Trump will never ever be president.
>>6467014
I'll bite, there is literally no evidence outside of speculation that suggests he's gay, and apologist liberals have done a far better job at pitting people against eacher than the right ever could (look at brexit) the only reason trump has a chance at winning (literally everything he says is nonsense) is because far left liberals happen to be the most vocal and have done a superb job at alienating people, including people that they claim to be allies to
>>6467013
...wat?
>>6467014
If anything, Omar being also gay makes it worse. Imagine if you had respected leaders of your religion and friends and family all telling you (unwittingly) that it would be kinder if you killed yourself and everyone like you. I can't even comprehend what it must be like to grow up in an Islamic country, I would be too terrified to even try to reach out to other people for support for fear of getting them and me thrown off a roof.
>>6467063
He used radical Islam as a cover because he would rather go down in history as a terrorist rather than a self-hating homophobe. I'm not saying religious conservatism didn't have a hand in it, but national homophobia started it. He didn't grow up in an Islamic country. He grew up in the United States
>>6467088
No hard evidence that he's gay how many times do I have to repeat myself
>lul he did cause internalized homophobia
God dammit
>>6467110
He knows he's lying. You can't make a liar stop lying by sharing the truth with them. Your best bet is to point out to everyone that this person is a worthless liar and nobody should believe a word they ever say about anything.
>>6467088
I know he didn't, I was just thinking about it is all. And the national homophobia we have today isn't nearly as bad as Islamic homophobia. In deep bible belt territory maybe its not so great but still not like it is in countries where Islam is law.
>>6467134
>>6467110
Do you just like ignore facts or something? He was a regular at the bar for three years. He had profiles on multiple dating sites. These are facts. What do you want, a video of him kissing another man?
You can ignore this shit but all the signs are there and screaming "liar liar" doesn't make me any less right.
>>6467138
The dude grew up with American Islam, which is influenced more by American culture than actual Islam. All religions inevitably adapt to the culture they're practiced in
>>6467162
I already said I know that. And I don't see what difference that makes other than confirming that American Islam is as awful as any Islam.
>>6467162
Ok no I'm done, you scream about ignoring facts but rely on faulty witness acounts, fake dating profiles (no trace of him on several prominent gay apps) and pure speculation, and somehow even though islam states in it's literal scriptures that homosexuality is wrong and should be punished and that this something that is likely to be taught to most Muslims yes even American ones, you loop it back to
>lel it's Americans that made him homophobic
Are you implying that he wouldn't be homophobic if he grew up somewhere else? Are you infatuated with the gut or something because you are passionate about pulling anytjing out of your ass to defend him, other anon is right your nothing but a deluded liar
>>6467183
The difference is that it makes American practicers of Islam more similar to American practicers of Christianity than third world practicers of Islam
>>6467189
And that excuses it somehow? If anything American Christianity (even though it sucks) is far less extreme than 3rd world islam, man imagine how bad the attack would have been if it was committed by a 3rd world Muslim, literally what is wrong with you?
>>6467186
It's also in literal scriptures for Christians that being gay is wrong and punishable by death, so the scripture shit doesn't help your case. If you want to call multiple witnesses corroborating that he was a regular at the bar and on dating profiles and had messaged people, by all means stick your head in the sand. All you want to do is condemn 3.2 million Americans for the actions of 0.03 percent of them, when I have seen firsthand that Muslims can be just as loving and supportive of the LGBT community as Christians are.
>>6467189
I don't much care for Christianity either but at least most Christians go for that "love the sinner hate the sin" bullshit instead of publicly telling their congregations things like its kinder to gays if all gays were killed and that death is the sentence, its not something to be ashamed of. There are levels to awfulness and Islam is about as bad as its possible for a religion to get. Literally creepy cult-tier only it happens to be enormous.
>>6467211
>>6467162
>Muslims can be just as loving and supportive of the LGBT community as Christians are.
Good examples of stubbornness getting in the way of understanding situation.
As an exercise, you should work on not commenting on any forums/social sites for a month, working on understanding, and staying away from discussions unless completely disconnected from emotional fuel.
Learn, understand, and then discuss. Not the opposite.
>>6467198
Look at third world Christianity with Ugandan Kill the Gays laws. I'm by no means defending homophobic beliefs in Islam, Christianity, or any other religion. I'm just saying defining this attack as uniquely a Muslim problem is unhelpful, misleading, and pointless because your eventual solution is to throw away the First Amendment, which is an insanely stupid and dangerous idea
>>6467229
>please stop posting I can't think of a response right away
Oh poor you
>>6467237
I would never suggest throwing away the first amendment, but not intentionally importing hundreds of thousands of people from countries where being gay IS illegal and who firmly believe that its deserving of a death penalty is not that much to ask. Nor is letting people know when an extreme religion caused (be it directly or indirectly) a shitload of deaths instead of trying to hide and ignore that just because the majority of believers happen to be brown and you don't want to look like a racist.
>>6467211
>doesn't understand why witness based evidence isn't reliable compared to hard evidence like him being in the data base, which he isn't
>doesn't realize that there are literal laws that prevent the bible scriptures from becoming laws and that old testament the only part of the bible that mentions gays is considered be outdated while sharias law is common in muslim countries
>doesn't understand that I made it a point that talk radical muslims specifically (even though most moderate Muslims silently support some radical ideas) and still resorts to the "you want to punish all muslims for the actions of a few meme"
>"I've seen first hand that muslims can loving and supporting of the lgbt community like Christians
And you've gone full circle relying on anecdotal evidence this time, where are these legions of loving muslims speaking out against homophobia? Hate gays if you want but don't go out of your way to harm them and don't defend those who do, especially if they were indoctrinated at a young age to hate homosexuality
>>6467269
Dude liberals are not afraid to point out that Islam harbors homophobic beliefs, just as we're not afraid to point out Christianity harbors homophobic beliefs. But religions can and do change, and it only changes because of the culture that it's practiced. Christianity was once used to justify slavery, but since slavery is seen as abhorrent today, Christians largely ignore the parts of the Bible that talk about it. The same thing will happen with Christians and Muslims but only if you attack the root of it, which is homophobia itself.
>>6467285
>where are these legions of loving Muslims condemning homophobia
http://time.com/4367554/muslim-leader-on-orlando-shooting/
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/06/13/3787881/lgbt-muslims-orlando/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/first-openly-gay-imam-orlando-massacre
>>6467134
>You can't make a liar stop lying by sharing the truth with them.
To an extent you can, though. Just shouting "YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG" obviously won't do it, because that's exactly what liars themselves are known to do when cornered, so it makes you no better than them. Instead what you should do is point out the inconsistencies in their argument and ask them to explain. Then their only option will be to either shut up or admit they're wrong.
>>6467134
I don't think the shooter ever lived in a country where Islam is law. And any country that institutes a strict interpretation of Christianity or Judaism as law would be pretty much the same as Sharia law. So really the question comes down to whether his parents subscribed to a strict interpretation of the Muslim religion.
>>6467186
>fake dating profiles (no trace of him on several prominent gay apps)
Whether he's on "several prominent gay apps" is really irrelevant, you wouldn't say someone isn't "really" gay just because they're only on one of six prominent gay dating apps. The media said he had an account on a specific gay dating site (don't remember which one it was though), has that one been debunked/shown to be fake?
>>6467216
There ARE passages in the Christian bible that say gays should be put to death (though that's in the OT and disregarded by most Western Christians). Of course, the Quran is no better, and there ARE a significant number of Muslims who do take those sorts of passages literally. However, something interesting I've heard is that while the father of the shooter was a religious homophobe, he was not the sort to condone violence against gays, instead saying that god would ensure they are suitably punished in the afterlife. Basically, what I'm saying is that while there definitely are many violently homophobic Muslims, the family of the shooter really didn't seem any worse than your run-of-the-mill Christian homophobe.
>>6467371
God give it up you have been thoroughly been called out most of you're points and are completely discredited, it's nice to a few speaking and I hope more do, but until then we need be critical of many things like gun control, the fbi failing to do it's job, homophobia and yes islam, but you choose to defend something so hard by blinding yourself to such, yes religion changes over time, but how do expect change to occure when you and your defense squad pops up and denies any criticism and only reassures people with backwards beliefs that they are infallibleable victims?
>>6467229
So your response to someone disagreeing with you is to tell them to shut up? Are you THAT afraid of being proved wrong?
>>6467269
The issue is that blocking Muslims entry into the country does go against the SPIRIT of the first amendment (it's not actually a 1A violation since immigrants aren't citizens yet). There is historical precedent for blocking immigrants from certain countries or ethnicities, and I think instituting such a policy would be less controversial than a Muslim ban, while largely accomplishing the same goal. Still, to the best of my knowledge such a policy hasn't been instituted in the US for decades, and many likely regard it as the sort of thing that should remain in the past.
> Nor is letting people know when an extreme religion caused (be it directly or indirectly) a shitload of deaths instead of trying to hide and ignore that just because the majority of believers happen to be brown and you don't want to look like a racist.
I think the issue is whether it's really correct to say that "Islam caused" the attack. It certainly could be a factor, but where exactly do you draw the line? I'd say it would be better to just say something like "the mass killing was committed by a Muslim who pledged allegiance to ISIS during the attack." That way you're really just reporting the facts, without labeling Islam as a whole as an "extreme religion" or saying it is responsible for the attacks. Otherwise we're honestly just jumping to conclusions. It is of course wrong to try to hide evidence of the shooter being Muslim.
>>6467371
Unfortunately for Islam, the Quran also contains passages saying that any interpretation other than literal is heretical. Also deserving of death of course, like most things in it. At least the jebusfags have the new testament full of jebus being a hippie with the turn the other cheek and love and kindness and all that. If someday Islam manages to modernize, that would be great, but that just isn't the reality of today.
>>6467453
>but that just isn't the reality of today
It is though, and just because it's difficult doesn't justify giving up entirely. Exiling and demonizing these people just leaves them alone to stew in their own hatred and resent us for our values, and an unwatched enemy is more dangerous than one we can eventually win over
>>6467285
>>doesn't realize that there are literal laws that prevent the bible scriptures from becoming laws and that old testament the only part of the bible that mentions gays is considered be outdated while sharias law is common in muslim countries
I get the Old Testament argument, but what "literal laws" do you speak of that forbid a Christian theocracy but not an Islamic theocracy? Separation of church and state applies to Islam as well as Christianity.
>>even though most moderate Muslims silently support some radical ideas
How exactly do they "silently support" those radical ideas? Do they covertly fund ISIS or something? Or are you saying they just support them by not openly speaking out against them? Because by that logic, any gay men who don't speak out against gay pedophiles and bug chasers are "silently supporting" them.
>>6467442
They literally said Islam includes homophobic beliefs, yet you keep strawmanning and saying they call Muslims "infallible victims". Also, they provided articles on Muslims condemning homophobia, JUST AS YOU ASKED, and you're just dismissing it all without even addressing it. If you ask for evidence, and then dismiss it as "completely discredited" (without even making the slightest attempt to explain why), you lose the argument. It's the equivalent of being checkmated in chess and flipping the board over and saying "I refuse to play by your rules".
>>6467470
So that's the way to defeat radical Islam through hugs n kisses till they become good, to be clear I'm against a complete ban, I do think we need stricter regulations and enforce proper assimilation, you can't look the other way and pretend nothing is wrong, but you can't look at islam as something that can't change and adapt to western ideals
>>6467500
Dude where do you keep getting the idea that I believe there's nothing wrong with Islam? There's plenty wrong with it, but I'm saying change comes from within, and the number one cure for homophobia is knowing a gay person. A complete ban contradicts everything the United States stands for
>>6467500
What specific regulations do you suggest? Like background checks to make sure they have no history of violent crime or terrorist connections? And how would we "enforce proper assimilation"? Do you mean some kind of cultural police where they deport you if you don't have views in line with what is expected of a "patriotic American"? Or are you thinking more along the lines of specialized education programs to instill Western values?
>>6467487
My first point I was talking about American and how other muslim majority countries don't usually have separation of church
Second of all their is statistics that back up the statement that moderate muslims support radical beliefs and that comparison is unfair Muslims vastly outnumber gay men
I acknowledged his evidence and clearly said it wasn't enough more than half of Muslims in the us think homosexuality is wrong and the number is even higher in Britain
You can't ignore part of my posts and intentionally twist my words and then say I lost the argument
>>6467413
>To an extent you can, though.
Nope.
>Just shouting "YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG" obviously won't do it, because that's exactly what liars themselves are known to do when cornered, so it makes you no better than them.
Wrong again. I'm infinitely better than them because I'm not a liar, which is also something any non-liar should point out at every opportunity when a liar says telling the truth is just as bad.
tl;dr
>>6467543
Nice way of using slippery slope fallacies, dude, where did I mention deportation? Where dis I mention any of yje crazy conclusions you jump to?
>>6454522
oppression scales are a made up concept by bigots to justify how one-dimensional charicatures of their enemies can have nuanced feelings about the treatment of multiple groups that are victims to systematic oppression
>>6467597
*the
>>6467562
>My first point I was talking about American and how other muslim majority countries don't usually have separation of church
Of course, but third world countries generally don't have seperation of church and state, like those African Christian countries that ban homosexuality mentioned earlier. The difference of course is that the "heart" of the Christian world is Westernized and secular, while the equivalent "heart" of the Muslim world is still theocratic.
>moderate muslims support radical beliefs
If we know they support these radical beliefs, how can they be doing so "silently"?
>that comparison is unfair Muslims vastly outnumber gay men
I don't see how it is relevant which group is larger. I could see it making a difference if say 1% of Muslims were terrorists but only 0.0005% of gays were pedophiles or bug chasers. I'm saying it's unreasonable to demand a demographic group to apologize for wrongdoing by one of their members.
>You can't ignore part of my posts and intentionally twist my words and then say I lost the argument
You asked, "where are the Muslims condemning this", and when someone showed you those Muslims, you were all like "nuh-uh, that doesn't count!" If that wasn't the kind of evidence you were looking for (say, what you really wanted was evidence that say 60% or more of Muslims opposed the attacks), that's what you should have asked for in the first place.
>>6467599
Seems pretty ironic for a leftist to be complaining about people making one-dimensional caricatures.
>this thread
It's like a Fawlty Towers - Don't mention the war parody.
>>6467583
There are two people, Alice and Bob. One is a liar, and can never tell the truth; the other is honest, and incapable of telling a lie. Both say, "I am not a liar". Tell me, then, which one of them is the liar?
>>6467597
Didn't mean to imply that you did mention deportation. Deportation is just one possible interpretation of "enforce assimilation", and it has been suggested by others in unrelated conversations, that those unable to integrate should be sent back.
>>6467599
This desu
>>6467632
Why exactly? Sure, many leftists themselves make one-dimensional caricatures of their enemies, but it's not like right-wingers don't do the same. I mean, have you seen alt-right propaganda? Just look at those Ben Garrison comics /pol/ loves so much, and try to tell me they aren't full of "one-dimensional caricatures".
>>6467632
everybody gets accused of treating the people they disagree with as one-dimensional caricatures. Nothing ironic about that.
>>6467621
Your entire derailment relys on mis wording, what I ment by silently supporting is that while they don't do it themselves they don't condem those who do and survey evidence proves that most do support radical ideas
And it isn't unreasonable to expect groups to encourage assimilation within their own communities and for them to speak ou against unwestern ideals, because it isn't just one of their members that hold these beliefs
>>6454522
Daily reminder social democrats and other leftist scum aren't liberals
t. real liberal
>>6467668
On the caricatures does someone being immature justify you acting just as immature?
>>6467668
There are two people, Alice and Bob. One is a liar, and can never tell the truth, and it's liar friends support it every time in it's lies; the other is honest, and incapable of telling a lie, but is told to not speak anything but liar-approved messages or else that's not cool, and it obeys, because it was secretly just another lying coward all along. Now tell me, what is a meme?
>>6467694
>what I ment by silently supporting is that while they don't do it themselves they don't condem those who do and survey evidence proves that most do support radical ideas
Okay, then maybe you should have been more specific. "Silently supporting" is rather vague.
>And it isn't unreasonable to expect groups to encourage assimilation within their own communities and for them to speak ou against unwestern ideals, because it isn't just one of their members that hold these beliefs
That makes sense. If the shooter's parents, or his Muslim neighbors (if he lived in a Muslim majority community), rejected assimilation, they could be in a sense responsible for the attack. But it wouldn't make sense to expect assimilated Muslims in say New York or Chicago to take responsibility for the attack.
>>6467668
>Just look at those Ben Garrison comics
>because political cartoons always have fledged out multidimensional characters
It's a political cartoon not an illustrated novel.
>>6467706
How are you defining liberal then? Are you using it to basically mean the same thing as libertarian?
>>6467715
To an extent it does. Do you expect either side to give up making political cartoons? In a serious discussion though I do tend to avoid making caricatures as they're basically just a strawman argument that doesn't prove anything.
>>6467716
A meme is an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation.
>>6467728
That's kind of the point. It's to be expected that political cartoons and propaganda make use of caricatures. That doesn't mean that you should use those caricatures to make an argument as if they perfectly represent reality.
>>6467725
Yeah that seems fair, also english isn't my first language so I'm very bad at it
>>6467755
A meme is an idea that spreads like a disease, though a disease that the carriers have to intentionally contract, and can only do so with effort, and that has no value inherent or otherwise, whereas diseases at least sometimes confer benefits.
>>6467755
>How are you defining liberal then? Are you using it to basically mean the same thing as libertarian?
No, libertarian is closer to anarchism than to liberalism
>>6467755
>That doesn't mean that you should use those caricatures to make an argument as if they perfectly represent reality.
But that's not the fucking point of these things.
They're to elicit an emotional response towards a certain issue with the goal to flare up the debate and slightly goad the viewer to agree with the artist.
That and simply to rock the fucking boat.
>>6467784
>though a disease that the carriers have to intentionally contract
You don't have to "intentionally contract" a meme. If you're exposed to an idea long enough, you tend to accept it, unless you have other ideas that encourage you to close your mind off to it.
> that has no value inherent or otherwise
Memes can definitely have value. The idea that murder is wrong, or that you shouldn't touch a hot stove - those are all memes.
>>6467868
And I suppose that if someone accepts an idea just because they're biologically inclined to do so, then it's not their fault? Who else's fault would it be, it's not somebody else's cells that are wired to believe and spread shitty lies, it's the carriers. Thus it's intentional, as it's a human cell's intention to contribute to an organism that memorizes and then helps spread shitty lies.
>>6467883
Economic and personal freedom, free market, low taxes, no welfare, no censorship cause censorhip breaks the freedom of speech, legal hate speech, legal prostitution, legal drugs the state is only used to punish criminals and prevent crimes
>>6467921
Haha holy shit I don't know what's going on in this thread but this post is literally the most retarded thing I've seen all day. Great job
>>6467958
It's like copy-paste of all of libertarian's retarded bullshit. Top-notch. Did you spout all that off the top of your head or did you read it from a page?
>>6467952
Memes ARE necessarily lies. One of the requirements for something to be a meme is that it has absolutely no value whatsoever under any circumstances. The truth can sometimes have value, under the right circumstances, no matter how inconvenient the truth. You wouldn't happen to be a terrible person would you?
>>6467984
So apparently anarcho-capitalism means ALL services are provided by the private sector, including things like power, infrastructure, law enforcement etc. I understand how that could be regarded as an extreme form of libertarianism, however most self-identified libertarians I've encountered accept some basic services provided by the government, but think the government should stay out of everything else.
>>6468029
>One of the requirements for something to be a meme is that it has absolutely no value whatsoever under any circumstances
That isn't included in any definition of "meme" I've encountered. Care to show me where in the dictionary it says that?
>>6468051
I'm not interested in any definition of meme that a memer would try and convince me of.
>>6468045
Then they're just rightist liberals, not libertarians
Also, libertarianism is far closer to real liberalism than social """liberalism""" is
>>6454522
Holy shit this thread devolved into discussions on what a meme truly is and libertarianism
>>6468058
If I'm a memer, and a memer memes memes, what meme would a memer like me meme?
When will Spics start beheading Muslims?
>>6468436
When the white race has been purged from the United States and there is no longer a buffer between the two groups.
Oh okay I guess i'll have to support literal nazis instead
