So which is the best antiandrogen for self medding?
From what I hear….
Spirinolactone (Spiro) has more negative side effects, however the risk can be reduced when seeing a doctor for regular blood test, particularly monitoring potassium and liver health.
Cyproterone (Cypro) is much stronger, requiring smaller dosages, however is still significantly more expensive. The major side effect being possibility of making depression worse.
I wonder is the depressive side effect in cypro maybe just evidence of how effective it is at reducing testosterone levels? Also Cypro is illeagle in the US yet prescribed in Europe? What’s with that?
https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-1313-procur-50mg-cyproterone.aspx
https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-1140-spiractin-100-spironolactone.aspx
>>6454018
>Also Cypro is illeagle in the US yet prescribed in Europe?
because americans aren't as smart as europeans
on a serious note, the FDA doesn't think cypro is any good so they don't want to make it available, probably has to do with the liver toxicity that comes with cypro
i guess in europe they just think you can monitor that and act accordingly
personally i think cypro is a better drug than spiro for the purpose of being an anti-androgen
Cypro is also progesterone based. So you get a bit of the good stuff as well. Which contributes to having better chest and other results.
So is cost the only reason people choose Spiro?
>>6454182
Depression and liver toxicity are no fun.
>>6454195
Is Cyrpo realy much more of a risk for the liver than Spiro? i mean with Spyro you would take like 3 times the dosage of Cypro...
>>6454018
>wonder is the depressive side effect in cypro maybe just evidence of how effective it is at reducing testosterone levels?
It's a pretty robust aid to depression. In all of its major actions, as anti-androgen, as progestin, and as glucocorticoid, cypro increases risk of depression.
I'd say it's unambiguously superior for patients without pre-existing risks of liver damage or susceptibility to depression outside gender dysphoria. If those conditions are present, though, spiro is probably the right drug. Although sometimes I feel like watching potassium intake would induce depression all on its own.
>>6454195
>Depression and liver toxicity are no fun
Sounds like Cypro makes you an alchoholic
Anyone used estradot patches? They seem like a fucking hassle compared to pills.
>>6454879
I used them for a while, they are nice if you don't have to show off your butt to anyone because they are ugly as shit and leaves disgusting marks. Currently on patches because an anon posted switching methods of administration briefly would boost boob growth.
>>6454018
cypro has the chance of growing a tumor or something like that with doses of 25mg+ over time.
citation:google about it
>>6454909
>doses of 25mg+
so even before a useful dosage...
>>6454909
this doesn't sound plausible and is not listed on the potential side effects list of cyproterone acetate
google gave me nothing, post a citation please
>>6454925
I'm not that anon, but I found one thing. https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/high-dose-cyproterone-acetate-potential-risk-of-multiple-meningiomas
>>6454938
yeah, but that is only for those with already existing menigiomas or a history of them, there's no indication that they would grow on an otherwise healthy individual
>>6454915
25mg is enough to nuke your T to female levels, or even under them...
>>6455030
This anon is right. My doctor prescribed me to 1 pill a day of cypro.
Also it doesn't make depression worse then Spiro.. Pretty much any HRT as MtF has the possibility of making your depression worse, cause of female hormones messing with mood swings like cis girls on their period.
i've been on spiro for half a year, or so
are there any reasons why i should switch to crypo?
>>6455143
So you don't get a potassium induced brain tumor.
And if your not already taking progesterone it should enhance feminization to a limited degree
I'm on 200mg spiro and 5mg finasteride daily right now. Should I consider cutting back my spiro or switching / alternating between other antiandrogens to cut back on side effects?
>>6455578
Oh I was lying, I thought it was 25mg but just checked the box. I took the 50mg pills, once every day. Used to be twice a day, until the doc cut me down and pretty much told me new research shown you don't need that much to achieve the desired result.
Currenlty Im of the Cypro though as Im post op. Still have like 5 boxes left, and two prescriptions to last for another 12 months.
>>6455590
>switching from a pill that gives you a potassium induced brain tumor to a pill that gives you a pituitary tumor
Just cut your balls of, pham
>>6455662
Probably a good idea to switch to Cypro instead of Spiro, but the thing is spiro is known to sometimes cause drasticaly increased testosterone levels when patients miss a dose, since it binds to receptors but doesn't attack testosterone production in the same way a dedicated anti-antagen like cypro does.
It would be a good idea to get your testosterone levels checked before changing drug just to be safe, but the consensus seems to be that a low Cypro dose of 25mg is safest, and might be enough to kill your test completely, but 50mg is still also an option.
>>6455772
>ismug face while gnoring both the concepts of probability and risk
>not just taking bicalutamide or superior injectables
>>6455847
There are no risks of having your balls cut off, anon
>>6455848
but doesn't bicalutamide just make your bulls painfully fall off? that seems a bit barbarick
>>6455864
I'm not sure your mentally ill or just a desperate tranny
Does Cypro do anything for DHT or do you need Finasteride as well?
>>6455895
2 sides of the same coin
>>6455578
The pills come scored down the middle so you can cut them in halves if you want. That's what I do.
>>6456123
oh cool, daily dosages are easiyer to work into routine
>>6455915
You want fina/duta, too, for best results. I'm thrilled with hair regrowth on such, and my endocrinologist who never prescribes them with cypro swears up and down that regrowth is impossible.
>>6455895
I'm not sure you're* a retard who can't spell for shit or a retard willing to kill his liver with ticking bomb anti-androgens.
Probably both.
>>6456349
so you take both cypro and a DHT blocker? which one?
>>6456374
>>6455864
>>6455772
Unless you're not trans and just a femboy who'd feel sad about cutting off a part of your body.
>>6455867
It should leave them un damaged famalam just not sure if effective
>>6456438
you know you need them for srs right?
>>6456490
No, you just need your scrotum to not be scarred by the incisions to remove them because the scar tissue won't stretch as much and you'll lose vaginal depth.
>>6456382
I've recently switched to duta from fina. It seems like the duta has really moved things into overdrive. To be fair, though, I'm taking a much stronger comparative dose of duta, and Minoxidil too.
>>6456438
Who the fuck would feel sad about cutting off their ballsack? Just cut it off to cut the T production, fampai.
>>6456541
I've always had them, I'd be sad to suddenly lose them. Doesn't that cause impotence btw?
And sterility, I know it shouldn't matter cause I'm pretty much just into men but I'd also be sad about the sterility.
>>6456584
>Doesn't that cause impotence btw?
Nope! You just have to make sure you get erections at least a couple times in a week though.
>sterility
Tough shit. At the end of the day you have to decide whether health of your liver and kidneys is more important to you or having a fem phenotype. I wish there was some middle of the road solution but there is none, sadly.
I am also dealing with this currently, having second doubts about orchi but I know I will have to undergo that because my AA is seriously rekting my liver.
>>6454384
> 3 times the dosage of Cypro...
thats not how drugs work you cant compare mg to mg of different drugs.
>>6456688
Thai's why the mole was invented
>>6456654
>my AA is seriously rekting my liver
Which AA have you been on? and for how long?
>>6459248
Even with same mole they still have different potencies and toxic doses. You can't conpare via number
Cypro for 2 years no liver issues testosterone at 0.5 mmol spiro was 200mg only got me to 2.9 mmol
>>6454018
>tfw your endo puts you on 100mg of cypro because she wants to kill you
>>6459359
Take 50mg or 25mg and never tell her. Or tell her after you get the blood results and show her you don't need 100mg based off your blood test.
>>6454018
Sorry if im off-topic here a little bit but didnt see another hormone thread up
Im taking 50mg cypro and 6mg estro, should i add finasteride and progesterone into my HRT? Will this give me better results, and if so, in what way? Also, what dosages should finasteride and progesterone be taken at?
>>6459425
I've heard 150 mg or 200 mg of oral micronized progesterone per day. I don't know if there's a point taking progesterone if you're on cyproterone, I'd like to know as well.
Id like to comment as i made a thread about 3 weeks ago in regards to switching from 150mg spiro to 25mg cypro. All i have to say is that for me, cypro has been amazing. My skin literally changed. Looks much more feminine, breast growth, any body hair i have left literally feels like some spots stopped growing, etc.. i havent experienced any worsening of depression either. So far, its been amazing and im only in my 3rd week. I stopped taking finasteride, so im interested as well if i should be back on it along with the cypro. I wasnt sure if it was bad to take both, so im interested if anyone is taking both cypro and finasteride.
>>6459437
You shouldn't need progesterone to take if your on Cypro, because Cypro does progesterone's job aswell. This is an advantage that Cypro has over Spyro.
>>6459489
You also shouldnt need to take cypro because its not the best medicine to treat your mental ilness.
Time for /lgbt/ to get a hrtgen
>>6459497
I don't know about that, but enhancing boob growth sounds nice.
>>6459497
Then why do femboys make a full recovery while on it hm?
>>6459478
There seems to be a large amount of literature showing that hirsutism (male pattern hair growth in females) can be treated successfully by either Finasteride, or a combo of estrogen and Cypro. So it would apear that Cypro can do Finasterides job for reducing male body hair growth, however it isn't clear whether it has the same effects on DHT levels and male pattern baldness as Finasteride.
>>6459638
>motherfucking trans help gen
great for mtfs, not quite as good for other pill poppers.
How about something everyone mtf, Ftm and femboy can use.
I'd really want to try Bicalutamide so it doesn't break my nads but I've never gotten an answe about effectiveness
>>6459638
Tranny halp is too scatter brained. A specific gen for trading information on self medding / hormone dosage would be usefull.
>>6459690
bicalutamide is defintely more effective than Spiro and isn't a diuretic so won't make you piss yourself. I have heard some people can get put on bicalutamide if their depression is too bad to risk Cypro. bicalutamide also inhibits celss from using DHT, but does not reduce it. The way it works makes it a bit harder to monitor through blood tests, but it is expected to increase the body estrogen production by preventing the transcription of tes. Still it looks like there are also risks of heart failure and hepatotoxicity at 150mg dosages
>>6459780
Would it work if I'm self medding? What's equivilant to 200mg spiro in efficacy?
Also it's expensive, where can I find it cheap?
If I can't figure out a way to make it work, I might just have to take cyp, even if it wrecks my nads.
>>6459780
Also Bicalutamide doesn't decrese tes levels it only blocks its use by certain cells and so shouldn't effect sex drive or spontaneous erections. Bicalutamide dosages should be lower even lower than Cypro to reduce liver risk.
>>6459690
>>6459719
Seems to me a general would not be the best format for that. It would be the same questions over and over again. (and the same answers)
Some kind of editable google doc (or wiki) with dosages, faq, comparison of drugs, and list of possible regimen for each kind of pill popper would be more efficient. Then just sticky it in the relevant threads.
>>6459817
That's kinda scary then. I have no way of knowing if it's got efficacy or not. It causing less damage is nice, but If I can't tell what dose is enough for decent blocking, then it's not really worth paying for such an expensive drug.
>>6459799
Looks like 50mg is the common dosage http://medlibrary.org/lib/rx/meds/casodex-2/
The seem much more expensive than Cypro though
https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-98-calutide-50mg-tablets-bicalutamide.aspx
>>6459825
I think a general would be good for people to list their individual dosages and changes, and side effects etc.
I am greedy and what everyone's data
>>6459877
>*want data
>>6459877
That would be a subjective account of a specific person's reaction to X drug/dosage. Not that useful.
Also there's no real individual dosage, it a choice between about 20 (?) possible combinations of drugs and dosage. Which is why a comprehensive ressource make sense.
It would be interesting to collect the self-reports to get an idea of the frequency of effects/side-effects. Something numerical like "23 of the 126 femboys that used bicalutamide 50mg developed breasts after 10 months" might actually help taking informed decisions...
>>6459964
well if you think about how not everyone takes daily, or maybe every two days, or twice a day etc there would be a lot more than 20 possibilities, though some would more common than others
>>6459964
>specific person's reaction to X drug
That's why the more data the better
>>6459964
>about 20
I can think of a lot more than 20.
Anti-andros I know of:
Spiro
Cypro
Bica
Lupron
Flutamide
Forms of estrogen:
Injections
Patches
Pills
Not gonna bother listing premarin or others cuz only tards use it
5AR inhibitors:
Finasteride
Dutasteride
You can have any combination of these and all at possibly different doses.
>>6460035
We could lump groups together, say <25 mg daily 25 - 50 mg daily etc. We need some kind of data base that can grow
>>6460059
Grouping is OK, but not when collecting data.
Collect as much details as possible with a Google form. Then data analysis with relevant subgroups.
>>6460058
Maybe we could make some kind of online survey where you select drug/dosage/.method, that inputs your results into a database, and then summarizes everyones data for us all to see
>>6460070
Oh god, imagining how messy that form will become....
Is there some way to control the data input, so it all ends up the same format?
>>6460070
To elaborate, there will likely not be enough statistical power if we look at the factors individually (drug,dosage,dosing scheme, could add ethnic group, breast size of nearest cis female relative,...) as there will be less people doing the less standard regimen.
>>6460098
I don't think the input should be too constrained. It's better to be easy to fill, and have to be worked on afterward to get a unified format. (cause people are lazy)
The form could look like :
- General demographics
- Family history
- Drug 1
-- Free-form text for name
-- Number for total dosage per day
-- multiple choice dropdown for dosing scheme
-- Free form text for remarks (ie snowflake dosing scheme)
- Drug 2: same
- Drug 3
...
- Your results
-- Duration of treatment
-- Multiple selectable checkbox for what you experienced
-- A few free form text fields for rare effects
- Ask to enter a unique ID (to make it possible to resubmit later without duplicating Data)
>>6460152
>Free-form text for name
why not just have a multiple choice list of the most common, and then a text box for "other"
>>6460076
>>6460152
>>6460264
Ok anons i just finished making this:
https://1drv.ms/xs/s!AudRJceTA5C9c2G5lCV2Avq0kQ0
Lets get some data and science the shit out of this
>>6461309
Data Goes here
>https://1drv.ms/x/s!AudRJceTA5C9cyIWo6_X14AvHyM
Arguably mine is better, it's also less estrogen-centric :^)
goo dot gl
slash forms/BvwkUtrRiMabPpzm2
>>6461398
you made me realise its easiyer for everyone if i do this
tinyurl dot com slash
>hrtsurvey
>hrtdata
>>6461398
I just don't like yours for some reason, like it has too much reading and typing, and clicking for the next page and not being able to skip questions is annoying
But i see somethings that could be useful maybe i will try and make a version 2 of mine (this might become an arms race)
>>6461509
