Honestly the narrative that Omar Mateen was a self-hating homosexual is homophobic as fuck.
It is an attempt to blame the LGBTQ community itself for the violence done against queer bodies. It is a projection of what liberal homosexuals think the gay experience is like and is thus easy for them to believe.
The idea that a person conflicted about their sexuality would then go and shoot 100-120 people is dehumanizing to all those that have in fact struggled with being gay.
This attack was an act of evil and hatred motivated by Islam and nothing else.
The liberal types can't see that because they are religiously attached to ther "tolerance," narrative that in this case comes before the actual lived experiences of LGBT people they claim to be their allies then you are objectively homophobic.
Pic related is a map of countrys the UN declares are pro, anti, or neutral LGBT rights.
If it weren't Islam, it would be something else.
His 'Islam', how I'm seeing it, is the same as 'Christian' homophobes.
We still have a real problem with average Americans disliking gays, whether 'UGH FUCK PC CULTURE!!!!' retards think so or not.
>>6401289
This isn't about that
It's about how people are insinuating that every homosexual man is a potential mass shooter.
>>6401289
agreed, the issue is homophobia not the particular religion used to justify it.
and even if the shooter was in the closet, that speaks more to our (american not gay) culture breeding self-hatred than it does gays being violently insane
The thing is though, we've all known someone who was viciously anti-gay and later turned out to be gay, or at least we've seen it on the news in some of the more high profile cases. See http://www.advocate.com/politics/politicians/2015/05/29/16-antigay-leaders-exposed-gay-or-bi
That being said, even if he was a self-hating gay, I don't think that's the important thing here, regardless of whether self loathing was part of his motivation. If it was, then that self loathing was caused by his conservative Muslim background. If it wasn't, then he was just acting on violent anti-gay Muslim rhetoric.
>>6401289
Plus islam is pretty high on the oppression totem pole. GO LEFT!! ^_^
>>6401349
Are you ironic, right?
The speed at which the left threw us under the bus is shocking.
>>6401420
The left already knows we vote democrat. They don't care about us beyond that.
>>6401420
>shocking
And this came as a surprise to you
>>6401420
We have no loyalty from anyone except each other.
The left have done nothing but give us lip service for years, and sometimes not even that. And now, they've abandoned all pretense of being on our side in favor of Muslims. They think we're such a sure thing that we'll vote for them regardless of how little they do for us.
That being said, I don't think the right is a good alternative. Their supposed interest in our wellbeing is a transparent grab for allies against the left, and given that they've been demonizing us for years to get the conservative religious vote, I have no doubt that they'd screw us the second they got the chance.
The narrative of him being a self-hating homosexual doesn't necessarily place blame on the lgbt community.
Rather, I see it as further evidence that something needs to be done about Islam in this country. From the evidence we know, we can make a pretty good guess that Omar was gay. But do you think he would have been self-hating if he hadn't followed a religion that condemns gays to death? If he wasn't a muslim, he wouldn't have felt compelled to kill other homosexuals in order to make up for his own homosexuality.
>>6401461
I think we could carve out a niche on the right but honestly we would just end up becoming tools just like the left has done to us.
Just imagine if he refused to bake a gay wedding cake.
>>6401420
It's about votes. There's no more hype or activism for gay "rights", so the Left is moving on to greener pastures. I'm not shocked at all, and frankly I'm quite satisfied. Karma.
>>6401273
oh wow, now you sound like the "conservative" "conspiracy theorist".
left wingers were never on your side. liberals are never on your side. they use "opressed" minorities to prop themselves up. you were litterally just a stepping stone.
>>6401273
>is homophobic af
Yes, and?
>>6401420
Not really. Muslims are a far larger potential voting base than lgbt, as they make up over one fifth of the world population. As the Left's ultimate goal is to act much as Europe has done and bring in millions of Muslims, it only makes sense that they would court that community at the expense of our own. The fact that the majority of Muslims are extremely socially conservative and anti-lgbt is irrelevant, as they will vote for the party that offers them the most benefits even if on the surface they profess values that run counter to their religious beliefs.
>>6401273
>Honestly the narrative that Omar Mateen was a self-hating homosexual is homophobic as fuck.
Lol
I love you faggots who think you can shame away this atrocity. "B-but this couldn't have happened! That wasn't very liberal of him at all!"
>>6401273
>It is an attempt to blame the LGBTQ community itself for the violence done against queer bodies
Saying that Omar being gay means he must represent the ENTIRE LGBTQ community is far more homophobic than the "narrative" you spea of.
>motivated by Islam and nothing else.
I don't think that's the case. He's described as never having been particularly religious, and while he had connections with Islamic terrorism, he pledged allegiance to groups completely at odds with each other, which implies he didn't really have commitment to any specific ideology. I think ultimately, he had some severe mental issues, and even if he wasn't gay, he would have eventually cracked due to some conflict, unless he received proper treatment in time. There doesn't seem to be any evidence he was acting on orders from ISIS; more likely, he was severely messed up psychologically to begin with, and Islamic terrorism was something he attached to to try to give his life meaning, without having a really good understanding of it on a deep level.
>>6401304
>It's about how people are insinuating that every homosexual man is a potential mass shooter.
Who's insinuating that? People say that about Muslims (and your thread might be regarded as an example of that), but not gays.
>>6401339
His conservative Muslim background may have been a contributing factor, but I'm reluctant to label it as a cause. There are plenty of people, Muslim or not, who are gay but grow up in a homophobic community. Most don't become mass murderers. He seems to have had some pretty severe issues, and if he wasn't gay, or if his family was accepting, something else probably would have set him off eventually.
>>6401420
How did they "throw you under the bus"? No one on the left is saying it's a good thing this happened, or that we deserved it. Condemning all Muslims as evil homophobes wouldn't have prevented this shooting either. Even Trump's policies wouldn't prevent it: not only had the guy lived in America for decades, he was born here. So unless Trump is willing to call for unprecedented mass deportations of American citizens, his policies would have made no difference to this incident.
>>6401465
Christianity also condemns gays to death. I don't think the problem is specifically what the religion says in its holy texts, it's really more how specific followers of the religion interpret it, and what aspects they emphasize. Really it seems to mainly be a combination of mental illness + unaccepting parents. If he wasn't Muslim, he probably wouldn't have pleged allegiance to ISIS, but if he had unaccepting Christian or atheist parents he probably would have snapped just the same.
>>6401273
But this "narrative" as you call it is proving to have quite a bit of merit to it.
Are you denying he was a conflicted homosexual? Why did he frequent gay bars and have profiles on gay dating sites? It's painfully obvious that there was a level of self-hatred which in part motivated his attacks.
Did Islam have nothing to do with it? Of course not. Homophobia brought on by his Islamic beliefs and upbringing most certainly played a major role in his attack as well.
I'm wiling to bet that had neither of these factors been present, the attacks would not have happened. All that being said, the "self-loathing" would not have been present had it not been for his Islamic beliefs - but the mitigating factor there was a product of the current political atmosphere, with the whole "Islam vs. the West" mentality permeating throughout the world. Had circumstances been different, and he were a militant Christian minority in a hypothetical secular Muslim state, he probably would have done the same thing, using Christian-based homophobia as his motivator.
To say "it's all because of Islam" is shortsighted - it completely ignores the complexity of the human condition and what drives people to do insane things.
For what it's worth, I think Islam is a ridiculous belief system at best, and a disgusting, dangerous one at worst. I think the same thing about all Abrahamic religions, honestly - although I will contend that in today's climate, Islam poses the greatest danger. However, denying that Omar Mateen was a self-hating homosexual seems to be objectively against what the evidence is showing thus far.
Don't align yourself completely with liberals or conservatives on this issue - see it for what it is based on the facts. Life isn't black or white.
>>6401289
>OH SHIT OH SHIT SOMEBODY'S INSULTING THE RELIGION OF PEACE UH UH THOSE FUCKING CHRISTIANS AMIRITE?
Good to see the left still eating itself.
>>6401273
triggered by reality
>>6403457
>>6403471
I love when conservatards are forced to ignore christian terrorism. Almost like they're cowards...
>>6403513
>BUT CHRISTIANSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Remember to lick Ahmed's asshole good and clean now lefty
>>6401289
There is a difference between dislike and hatred. Most homophobes do not hate you guys they just dislike you and try to ruin your mood by shaming you.
Those people do not care enough about you to go ape shit guns blazing and ruin their lives.
Muslim extremists however do
>>6403513
Christian terrorism? Where? o,o? Source?
>>6403513
Identical by hillbot yet again.
>>6403513
Rlly mke u thank??
I swear I've seen this same exact post here yesterday.
It seems like shills have zero argument.
>>6401461
>the left had betrayed out trust time and time again!
>but we can't go to the right, they think we're the actual boogeyman
At least the right is honest about not caring about you
You'll keep suckling at the tit of progressives with that knife in your ribs until you bleed out, instead of trying to actively change the minds of conservatives
>>6401289
If it were something else, I would be against something else.
The muslims need to be treated no differently than the christians.
Other than the fact the christians are killing fewer of us as of late, maybe they should get some props for that.
>CHRISTIANS ARE EVIL GAY-HATING ASSHOLES WHO WE NEED TO DESTROY
>but islam is a religion of peace, we need to forgive this guy, he dindu nuffin wrong :^)
>>6401461
>>6401768
Keep in mind right and left are changing and will change more as time goes on. The left is going full SJW, while the right is being influenced by the alt-right.
Being tolerant of or even embracing LGBT is actually more rightwing when you think about. It means accepting our friends, family and neighbors for who they really are. LGBT people share racial and cultural similitaries with cishet people.
Putting Islam over LGBT means importing millions of alien muslims and not demanding assimilation. This means putting the rights of a barbaric alien group of peole, over the rights of our LGBT friends, family and neighbors.
>>6403968
>Being tolerant of or even embracing LGBT is actually more rightwing when you think about.
this has always been what I could not understand about the Republicans! Their principal is small government, they should have been leading this charge all this time, but they got coopted by America's religious crazies. fortunately it looks like those crazies are losing power, now it's time to shift our vision to the other religious crazies in the world who want us dead.
>>6402836
>Reread the bible with the understanding that eunuch means a man who can't perform with women. The meanings of words change over time.
How does a passage about men laying with men refer to eunuchs?
>>6403560
>Those people do not care enough about you to go ape shit guns blazing and ruin their lives.
Neither do the vast majority of Islamic homophobes. Even the shooter's father wasn't that type - he thought being gay was a sin, but accepted that God would take care of it.
>>6403873
How would treating Muslims "no differently than the Christians" prevent attacks like this?
>>6403942
There's no reason to forgive this guy, but blaming it on the entire Muslim population doesn't make much sense.
>>6403968
Not really, conservative beliefs are associated with dislike of those who are different, whether they're different in race, culture, gender, sexuality, religion, whatever. The right may be trying to market itself to LGBT people now, seeing they have an opportunity since the left is accepting of Muslims and they see an opportunity to make LGBT switch sides, but acceptance of LGBT is still a liberal concept. Conservative beliefs are all about traditional values, that there's a certain way people "should" be, whether that means racially homogenous communities or heteronormative standards of behavior. Of course in reality politics isn't always a simple uniform matter like that.
>>6401273
>It is an attempt to blame the LGBTQ community itself for the violence done against queer bodies.
You're going way too far into this.
They just don't want to blame islam.
It was a tragedy. It's sad everyone has to spin it around their own politics, like this were just another opportunity.
>>6405854
>There's no reason to forgive this guy, but blaming it on the entire Muslim population doesn't make much sense.
So let's blame it on the entire American population instead. Those Muzzies dindu nuffin!
>>6403843
This is what I've never understood. If gays want to be accepted by conservatives, someone has to reach out. It's a two way street. There has to be some sort of agreement in values or policies. But for the longest time, LGBT were just like the blacks or Hispanics. Plantation voters that voted for the same party time after time and toed the party line regardless of their own social views or economic preferences.
Every time in the past any sort of right wing party anywhere in Western society has reached out to these communities, they cry about pandering despite the fact that their support for left wing politics is purely identity based. But the demographics of the West are changing. Gays are no longer the protected class that they were, and they're not worth as much to leftist parties as Islam - the newest plantation class that can be imported by the hundreds of thousands.
At some moment, the question will undergo a metamorphosis and it will sound very differently. It will no longer be DO YOU WANT TO LIVE WITH US but DO YOU WANT TO LIVE? Do you, the LGBT community, want to survive? Because the devotees of Islam don’t want to live in peace. We've seen this in Europe as decades of Muslim immigration is taking its toll. And if the Democrats get their way, that situation will eventually be repeated over here.
Donald Trump, just like right wing politicians are a new breed of conservatism. A different kind of right wing that is more concerned with protecting Western values and defeating globalism. They're reaching out to you. Are you going to reach back?
>>6405854
>Not really, conservative beliefs are associated >with dislike of those who are different, whether >they're different in race, culture, gender, >sexuality, religion, whatever. The right may be >trying to market itself to LGBT people now, >seeing they have an opportunity since the left is >accepting of Muslims and they see an >opportunity to make LGBT switch sides, but >acceptance of LGBT is still a liberal concept. >Conservative beliefs are all about traditional >values, that there's a certain way people >"should" be, whether that means racially >homogenous communities or heteronormative >standards of behavior. Of course in reality >politics isn't always a simple uniform matter like >that.
This is also true. Being pro-LGBT and anti-muslim is actually a nationalistic idea, which strongly overlaps with conservatism.
The problem with conservatism is that it changes overtime. Ever heard the idea that todays conservative is yesterdays liberal? A good example of this is the Conservative Party of Canada, which as of this year is no longer against gay marriage.
>>6405900
>So let's blame it on the entire American population instead.
No, that's equally nonsensical.
>>6406071
You're right. Let's just blame Christian America instead. Surely it was the fault of those evil NRA gun lovers that Omar transformed from the peaceful lamb he was into a killing machine.
Never forget that radical Islam only exists because it's a puppet of those evil Christians who have confused these peaceful Muslims into killing gay people. The only reason Islam has been invading and murdering the rest of the world for 1300 years is because they were misunderstood by those damn KKKhristians.
>>6405975
>The problem with conservatism is that it changes overtime
Eh, not necessarily. Conservatism never really changes. Neither does anarchy for instance.
What does change is the 'frontiers' in which political parties debate upon, which is what you're referencing in the last sentence. So many conservatives accepting gay marriage isn't due to ideologies changing, but rather parties moving on from that issue because it's not popular enough or not favorable to argue against anymore.
Political parties just don't operate in their "pure" form, causing this giant mess of ideals and a bunch of conservatives acting like liberals and liberals acting like conservatives and what have you.
>>6403513
>Christian terrorism
>Yeah muslims are murdering people by the thousands right at this moment but have you forgotten some Christian bombed an abortion clinic 30 years ago?
Go away goatfucker apologist
>people excusing A because B does it too and vice versa
>people accusing other people of excusing A while excusing B
Now I may be blind, but I can see how retarded that is.
Does any gay person actually feel THREATENED by Christians? I genuinely want to know since I sure as fuck don't. I don't live in Russia or something, so at the absoutely worst they're just gonna be annoying. I get uneasy when I'm around muslims though.
>>6406209
I only ever feel threatened around dark blacks, stereotypically idiotic xtians, and muslims tbqh, who all seem to share deep 'religious' values
everyone else I've never had any problems with and therefore don't care about
>>6401273
>Honestly the narrative that Omar Mateen was a self-hating homosexual is homophobic as fuck.
why? i dont see it...it is a very likely scenario, or do you think he was "infiltrating" with all the gay and "community" stuff?
Although its obvious that him being a muslim played into it...a lot, him being a gay, self hating muslim sounds pretty legit to me.
>It is an attempt to blame the LGBTQ community itself for the violence done against queer bodies.
Oh fuck off, as if there is no violence inside the "community"...get real...
>>6406318
>Oh fuck off, as if there is no violence inside the "community"...get real...
No you fuck off idiot, assuming any of the 'violence' inside the gay community is comparable to 50 dead people. Fucking inbred.
>>6406345
yeah not fifty dead people at once ill give you that...
>>6406095
Your
"HURR DURR RELIJUHN OF PEASH DINDOO NUFFAN" shitposting does not constitute an argument. Have you considered the possibility that maybe, perhaps, it DOESN'T make sense to blame the shooting on ANY demographic group of millions or billions of people?
>>6410230
It makes perfect sense to blame the shooting on the demographic group. Islam is not a race. It's not a sex or a sexuality or a condition. It's an ideology that's freely chosen, and it's an ideology that promotes the kind of violence that led to the Orlando shooting. Especially given that Muslims worldwide and Muslims within Western nations always poll all approving of this violence. Muslims in the West believe ISIS is justified. They believe terrorism is justified. They have positive views of those that commit these acts. They want to have Sharia Law implemented in the West and in the whole world. They despise homosexuality, and believe it is an illness and should be criminalized.
This is the so-called "moderate" Islam, proven time and again by acts, rhetoric, and polls. Only in America is this trend of violent Islam broken, because your doors have been relatively closed to Islam and most of your Muslims are converted African Americans and the descendants of secular refugees that fled the Middle East when Islamism took over. And even then, 10% of American muslims believe that terrorist attacks of jihad are justified.
The Orlando shooting is not the fault of white Christian America. The LGBT community is not at fault. There is no mystical "pervasive homophobia" driving conflicted young gays to try and kill other gays. The root cause of this violence is Islam. But since you're determined to deny basic reality, are you really surprised you get nothing but shitposts?
I think the word "homophobic" should be discouraged as well because it implies that the people who hate homos are actually afraid of them. They aren't and this makes them out to be seen as victims to an extent because of their "naive" and "ignorant" thinking. If these people were truly ignorant they would view LGBT as a curiosity rather than an enemy. They know all about what gay people do and it makes them angry. They should be defended against not converted because they are the enemy.
>>6406209
>Does any gay person actually feel THREATENED by Christians?
Me.
But I feel uncomfortable around a seemingly ok guy because his name sounds slightly eastern European.
>>6402280
Have you even followed the news? How about that fucking vigil in Mizzou that was turned into a shaming session? How about everyone going on about Islamaphobia more than fucking homophobia?
>>6410292
>Muslims in the West believe ISIS is justified.
Can I see a citation for this? Specifically with percentages?
>>6410575
Again, how would changing any of that have prevented this shooting?
>>6410891
Did you quote the wrong post or something? How does me calling out situations of the left being vultures relate to the shooting being prevented?
If you want an actual way the shooting could have been prevented, maybe this fuck should have lost his right to by guns after beating the shit out of his wife. The FBI completely failed.
>>6401289
Christian homophobes: Have mean signs that hurt my feelings :'^(
Muslim homophobes: Will literally mow you down with an AR-15.
>>6401273
>Honestly the narrative that Omar Mateen was a self-hating homosexual is homophobic as fuck.
No it's not. The phenomenon of self-loathing homosexuals lashing out against other LGBT people is not at all uncommon. Look at idiots like Ted Haggard. The guy spent his entire life virulently condemning homosexuality, and was having affairs with gay prostitutes at the same time.
Gosh, I can't even recall all the conservative, anti-gay politicians who have been caught soliciting gay sex in airport lavatories and other public spots.
It stands to reason that repressive social values would come back to bite us in the ass eventually.
>>6410888
>Can I see a citation for this?
http://www.motivaction.nl/downloads/FORUM_-_Verkenning_Nederlandse_moslimjongeren_en_de_Arabische_Herfst_05-12-2014.pdf
Dutch research institute Motivaction found around 80% of turkish people aged 16-35 in the Netherlands had a positive view of ISIS.
>>6401420
Happened so fast too and shows it was only about votes.
The day Gays/bi's are getting in less votes than people who would kill them if they were in charge....the left swaps horses.
There's a lack of integrity, then there is this....
Honestly? I just laugh in total shock.
>>6410992
>I just laugh in total shock.
I'm shocked that people didn't see this coming.
No, no, no.
Regardless of his sexuality, the point is it was the religion that drove him crazy.
The craziest homophobes are usually self-hating religious types. Because their religion teaches them homosexuality is the most vile thing in existence and they have homosexual urges, psychical tension and conflict is produced that emerges as violence and homophobic behavior.
>>6410929
I support everyone's right to believe whatever they want.
I don't support violence.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand?
>>6411018
I think many did, just not this fast.
This is 1984 tier.
Like "Islam was always more important than gays".
And it's said with total conviction, their memories are erased of any inconsistency in these things. Islam was always an ally, gays can be allies too, they just have to shut up if there's a contradiction (which of course there isn't)
>>6411038
>I think many did, just not this fast.
Why do so many people believe 2016 is some sort of magical year where acceptance will skyrocket when it truly has always been a flat line and the patient has been declared dead for over a century already.
Was Omar Mateen the gay Elliot Rodger? All his interactions with gay men involve him getting turned down.
>On one such evening, the classmate said, Mateen asked him whether he was gay, which he denied. “He said, ‘Well if you were gay, you would be my type.’ I said okay and just went on with the night,” said the classmate, who was not identified by the newspaper. “It was not anything too crazy, but I take that as a pickup line.”
>One Orlando man, Cord Cedeno, 23, told The Post that Mateen reached out to him on Grindr, another gay dating app. Cedeno said Mateen tried to flirt with him but he was not interested. “It was the picture of him wearing a tie,” Cedeno said. “I blocked him.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/troubled-quiet-macho-angry-the-volatile-life-of-omar-mateen/2016/06/17/15229250-34a6-11e6-8758-d58e76e11b12_story.html
>>6402280
Trumps policies would have saved 49 lives if we had it when his dad moved over here.
My heart goes out to every gay, woman, atheist, christian, jew, apostate and free thinker that lives in those shit holes in the middle east, I wish we had a machine that could determine if a migrant was any one of these and I would accept them with open arms, but other than that fuck islam. You can't find a better determining factor of rather or not you are safe in a country as a gay than the percentage of muslims in it.
>>6411034
By coddling muslims with there shitty death cult you support violence.
As much as you might say "well christians are homophobic to!" it is not comparable. We are not stoned to death by the government, we are not habitually honor killed by our families, and in the few cases where some gay is killed because of christian homophobia the media will demonize the attacker and blame it on the ideology.
Unless it's islam, which gets a pass even though it currently kills the most gays on a day to day basis.
>>6401420
How about the speed at which other gays threw gays under the bus.?
>>6401273
You're blatantly picking and choosing which interpretation of events you prefer for political purposes while accusing others of doing the same thing?
It's not like closeted gay people being homophobic is a new thing. I hope you feel appropriately ashamed for making this thread and being called out.
>>6410929
Why are Americans so retarded about nuance? You can support and protect Muslims while criticizing the bigoted parts of their culture. Also, violent crimes against homosexuals by homophobic christians is totally a thing. Homosexuality was illegal until pretty recently in most christian countries.
>>6410958
%99.8643 of Dutch people are also retards
>>6410958
Which page?
>>6416008
>Trumps policies would have saved 49 lives if we had it when his dad moved over here.
Yes, but was Trump even proposing banning Muslims back then?
>>6416786
Trump proposed banning muslims shortly after he began running.
What that poster said was if a muslim ban like what Trump is suggesting had been in place when Trump's grandfather immigrated over here, then those 49 gays would be alive.
If Omar Mateen was a self-hating homosexual the cause of the self-hate and what sublimated the self hate into an act of terrorism is Islam.
At best him feeling homosexual was just an aid to his islamic views on homosexuality and not the fundamental issue.
>>6416194
hi JIDF.
>>6401289
you are either wrong or successfully trolling us.
>>6416872
Yes, but the point is that back then the concern about Islamic terrorism didn't exist yet. It's like saying the Titanic wouldn't have sunk if it was built to today's safety standards.
