It's like this;
Testosterone is poisoning my life. It is leading me to make bad choices and making me hate myself. It has ruined everything for me and I want out of the game. So I am going to fry my endocrine system as it exists and replace it with something that will lead me on a lesser path of destruction. It has nothing to do with sex, nothing to do with gender, nothing to do with any of this bullshit. I don't want to be a women and I don't want to date men. I just don't want to be ruled by what has been nothing short of a vicious king. I am done with toxic masculinity. Done.
>>6297155
It's pretty nice being a eunuch. You don't need to go popping estrogen though. There are alternatives, even diet and exercise can help prevent osteoporosis.
T. over 2.5 years with almost no testosterone or estrogen
>>6297173
Living without hormones sounds scary so I will take my chance with estro.
>>6297225
OK suit yourself bro but be ready to get dysphoric about your tits, it happens to a lot of people who aren't trannies but take hormones. As long as you're ready for that then go ahead I guess.
Also: consider SERMs. I might even start taking them. They won't make you grow tits but they'll mimic estrogen other than that, including with fixing the issues that eunuchs have due to no sex hormones.
A side note - eunuchs have been around for thousands of years. They didn't train such servants just to have then drop dead from nothing.
>>6297155
>anime
>tranny
Every time
You've exhausted alternative routes like meditation? I didn't realise until recently that a lot of people think meditation is essentially a thing of religious woo. But it's not.
>>6297289
Anime creates trannies family. Well known fact.
>>6297155
How do you plan on doing this?
What are your sexual preferences?
>>6297323
Casodex and Proscar.
Basically block my Testosterone out with the Casodex,
Use Proscar to block formation of DHT from serum testosterone and convert to estradiol.
ok
>>6297155
Toxic masculinity doesn't exist. You are letting other people tell you that the natural state of being male is bad.
I feel bad for you but I don't know a way to help. Self acceptance has to come from within.
>>6297932
This.
>>6297932
While other's opinions are a factor there are objectively negative aspects of masculinity.
For one I am just exhausted trying to keep up with satisfying my body's sex drive, unhealthy aggression quota for the day, and need to apparently sabotage any meaningful relationship.
Yes it is my choice to be destructive but even if I choose not to I still have this nagging telling me to ruin everything around me and I cannot handle it anymore.
>>6297289
>that
>anime
You have insulted me, sir.
>>6299239
>
For one I am just exhausted trying to keep up with satisfying my body's sex drive,
A lot of that is youth. You're in the prime of life when your body is most geared towards breeding. That you find it overwhelming isn't a problem inherent to masculinity, it's a problem with how society views sexuality. The heavy influence of Abrahamic religions on most of western society has a far reaching grasp and is very sex negative.
>unhealthy aggression quota for the day,
Aggression is good and needed. Aggression doesn't automatically mean violence or cruelty. It's raw energy people use to perform difficult tasks. Your problem isn't too much aggression, it's not knowing how to handle and channel it.
>and need to apparently sabotage any meaningful relationship.
This is just plain pure 100% sexism. Women are every bit as capable as men of sabotaging relationships. Your issue isn't with being a man, it's with dealing with other people and probably trust. That's something everyone who wants to be in a relationship has to learn to deal with.
I'm a man and in a very stable relationship with a woman. I have no desire at all to sabotage it. Relationships are work, sometimes very hard work but they're also worthwhile.
> I still have this nagging telling me to ruin everything around me
That's because everything around you isn't good. But again, your problem is in how you're handling the feelings not that they're there. Take the desire to ruin everything and flip it so it's a desire to improve everything. Now you can take all that built up energy and throw it into something worthwhile.
One final note... This is all coming from a cis man who much as I will try will never know what it feels like to be trans or have gender dismorphia. It could be that there's something about the way you are that you have a lot of male energy but not other ways to handle it well. I can't say because I'm not you. But none of those things was objectively negative.
>>6299471
I just have bigger fish to fry than getting my dick wet 24/7
>>6297289
>4chan newcomer
>complete retard that can't navigate within its culture
Every [spoiler]summer[/spoiler]
>>6299548
Of course. So channel that energy elsewhere. But understand that it's not inherently or objectively negative. It's just part of a biological process.
>>6299471
Quit shaming someone for wanting to be a eunuch of sorts.
You're the androphobic one here, saying men can't do away with their masculinity if they really want to.
Lots of people make themselves eunuchs for similar reasons, and I feel they are justified. If someone doesn't want their masculinity and their sex drive is making them suffer, along with their other testosterone-induced feelings, they should have the right to do away with it and become like this.
>>6299594
Quit shaming masculinity.
>>6297932
/thread
>>6299573
Cancer is a biological process but we intervene don't we? For me masculinity is like emotional cancer.
>>6299764
Have you ever not been masculine? If not, how do you know what to attribute to it?
>>6297279
The SERM shilling continues.
for what it's worth, I brought up SERMs with femboys for the reason that well, femboys want to be femme.
If OP wanted to just continue being male without the effects of T on the brain, there are SARMs. Some cross the blood-brain barrier so I couldn't recommend RAD-140, but MK-2866 (Ostarine) could really help OP.
>>6299788
Don't be so dense. It's well known what things having testosterone levels in male range causes, and among those things are the issues OP is having.
>>6299764
Don't listen to these idiots.
I suggest you give chemical castration a shot and see how you like it before committing to a more permanent solution.
Do a 3-6 month run on your favorite antiandrogen, although I'd avoid androcur unless you want to make it permanent. See how you like living without the annoying effects of testosterone. If you don't like it, quit and you'll return back to normal. If you do like it, keep on going and add estrogen or a SERM if you want.
>>6299863
Oh... of course, my bad. SERMs can be used with most anti-androgens whereas SARMs can't, simply because a lot of AAs block androgen receptors. it's the sole mechanism of action of bicalutamide after all.
if you wanted to chemically castrate and replace with a SARM you'd need to use a GnRH analogue.
>>6299868
>Don't be so dense. It's well known what things having testosterone levels in male range causes, and among those things are the issues OP is having.
Only in extreme cases, most often coupled with other issues. A large majority of men do not have these problems.
>>6300082
Also, that only goes for aggression and sex drive. Having trouble with relationships and "destroying everything around you" are not male problems.
>>6300082
It's not that they don't get the effects, it's that for most men it doesn't bother them. If it's bothering him he obviously isn't like most men, and should consider giving the test-free life a whirl and seeing how he feels.
>>6300090
They can be tied to the aggression and general thinking patterns induced by testosterone. Perhaps he's not able to handle it so well. I'm not saying all guys get it like that, but if he's getting issues from it, why care if he wants to remove those issues?
>>6300092
>It's not that they don't get the effects, it's that for most men it doesn't bother them.
It is that they don't get the effects. If all that happened was that they didn't mind, men would be fighting and raping a lot more than they actually are.
>>6300100
>They can be tied to the aggression and general thinking patterns induced by testosterone.
There's plenty of destructive women, are a huge majority of constructive men. You're stereotyping.
>why care if he wants to remove those issues?
I don't care, but femininity comes with its own problems, unless OP fixes their other issues, they most likely won't be able to deal with those either.. I do care about the bullshit toxic masculinity meme being perpetuated.
>>6300164
You're going way past what I was meaning to say. I suppose I should have clarified further.
I wasn't saying that aggressiveness = bad, or masculinity = bad, or anything along those lines. I was saying that it simply is raised by test. This is an objective fact.
In fact I think women are much more troublesome as a whole.
I am simply saying that OP is affected more by these things than normal men, and he doesn't like it. He should have the option to change that. Normal men don't have a sex drive so powerful that they mind it. Most men don't have aggression so powerful that it hurts their lives and causes them to mind it. etc. you get the point (I hope)
To say he couldn't deal with femininity is entirely uncertain. Perhaps he's less susceptible to the negative mental effects of feminizing HRT than he is to testosterone. He doesn't even need to do feminizing HRT.
>I do care about the bullshit toxic masculinity meme being perpetuated.
OP should have just used different words to describe his situation. Instead he used a buzzword and it's set you and some others off.
>>6297155
yeah, not every guy is cut out to be a guy with lot's of T. I'm a tranny, but I lived as a guy on spiro only for a while, and it was pretty nice; I had formerly had 600+ ng/dL of T, so it really was a relief from the tension. it makes you feel like a little boy though, which wasn't so bad.
OP here
Don't get me wrong femininity is toxic as fuck too, I realize this. In fact toxic femininity perhaps inspired toxic masculinity in the first place.
>have value by default as a female as fun sex toy
>take advantage of this by playing potential mates against eachother (indirectly or otherwise)
>to the victor (woman) go the spoils
I realize all of this, maybe toxic masculinity is overplayed but it still exists as an objective net negative to someones happiness. Regardless of if they decide to play the game or not it still can be emotionally crippling to hate yourself for existing in a state of privilege based around violence and dominance (EG a man will always be able to speak over a woman as he is seen as dominant, will always be able to go through a door/hall first because he is dominant, etc)
Things like that are hardly necessary since we started going to the store and not bonking mammoths over the head with clubs for sustenance.
The only reason I would take estro is because living without hormones sounds scary as fuck, not to mention it is dangerous. I dont want to get comfy somewhere I cannot stay and live a long happy life.
>>6299868
Androcur.. Permanent?!?1
>>6300202
I agree with everything you said, but the idea that if you can't deal with your masculinity you can just trade it in for femininity and somehow fare better is silly, because you don't know if it's the masculinity you can't deal with, or have some other condition that causes you to deal poorly with hormones or emotions.
>the idea that if you can't deal with your masculinity you can just trade it in for femininity and somehow fare better is silly
Not really man. Femininity or neutrality are both very different, I would know as a eunuch. Many eunuchs go eunuch for the exact reasons he is listing, and wind up having vastly improved lives as a result. It's worth a shot for him.
>>6301315
After a while the sterility is permanent, and there is potential for damage to your androgen receptors, making it difficult or impossible for you to fully recover from it, basically forcing you to go without testosterone or to take estrogen.
I know someone who was on androcur for years. They stopped, and after an initial surge of testosterone, their levels crashed back down to castration levels and never came back. Maybe it's more dependent on the individual, but still, androcur loves the shit out of your androgen receptors. It really fucks up your balls too, it'd be best not to do it unless you're okay with permanent effects.
IIRC many trans girls over time wind up taking less and less androcur, this is perhaps due to these effects.
>>6301753
>Femininity or neutrality are both very different
I didn't say they weren't, but they're still emotional. At least, femininity is, which is what's being discussed here.
>Regardless of if they decide to play the game or not it still can be emotionally crippling to hate yourself for existing in a state of privilege based around violence and dominance (EG a man will always be able to speak over a woman as he is seen as dominant, will always be able to go through a door/hall first because he is dominant, etc)
Except now you're just naming one male trait and pointing out women lack that trait, while basing privilege on that. There's plenty of places where women rule and abuse their power, they're just less in your face obvious.
>>6301753
How effective would bicalutamide alone be at reducing the effects of t and dht?
Is there a non steroidal alternative to finasteride which can help me with my body hair?
If anyone has advise, Pls let me know senpai.
>>6301910
>but they're still emotional. At least, femininity is, which is what's being discussed here.
Emotional in an entirely different way, in every way shape and form. There is no comparing it with masculinity. If he has problems with masculinity that are due to testosterone, odds are those problems will be totally gone with neutrality or femininity.
I frequent eunuch areas and I've never seen someone hate their masculinity, get rid of it, and then have a bunch of problems with neutrality/femininity. That's just not how it works man.
The best course of action for him is to give it a trial run. If he doesn't like it he can stop and try something else to fix his problems.
>>6302039
Very effective. It pulls the androgen receptor complex into the cell, blocking T and preventing DHT from even reaching the receptors.
You won't need fin with bica. Bicalutamide is notorious for eliminating body hair exceedingly well.
>>6299594
I'm not shaming him. I'm doing the opposite. I'm telling him the shame he's already feeling is misplaced.
I'm not saying at all that men can't or shouldn't do away with their masculinity if they want to. There are plenty of trans people who do that and if someone has some asexuality or simply finds sexuality too bothersome then that's a perfectly fine reason as well.
In my opinion, whatever someone wants to do to make themselves happy is good so long as it doesn't directly shit on someone else. Which this absolutely does not.
However that said, I think OP is misguided in his characterization of masculine traits being bad which is why I addressed them each.
>>6299764
Cancer is a disease of unnatural cell growth. That's a pretty terrible and quite frankly deeply sexist analogy.
>>6303566
OP here
I do have a demonized view of masculinity, which plays heavily into this desire, not gonna lie.
Basically I have never fit in with other males, always given shit about being girly, sensitive, a fag, etc. when I am just being myself. I am hoping at least if I am less masc looking people will not expect this from me. I'm not super masc right now anyways but apparently enough where having a vocabulary that includes more than the words 'beer' 'sports' and 'pussy' surprises most people. I am just really tired of trying to live up to a standard I never agreed to.
I feel like an Asian that can't do math/ black man with good credit/ Indian that uses a toilet. Just defying stupid stereotypes and people refuse to acknowledge that I can be any different than their strict seemingly logic proof mold of what someone with a penis can ever be.
>>6304677
The guy you're responding to here. We're actually quite similar in some ways. I've always been girly. I've worn my hair long since I was 15 and these days keep it in a braid. If I were younger and less swarthy I might even have considered transitioning.
Similarly I've never had any interest in sports (wish I could say the same for beer) and most other typically manly pursuits. I couldn't even tell you the difference between a sedan and a coup. That shit's all greek to me and I could care less.
I've had many people try to give me shit or tease because I don't conform to the traditional male roles. But none of that ever really bothered me, and you don't have to let it bother you either. Start with a healthy dose of not giving a flying fuck what people you don't care about think. Then follow it up with finding some good friends who don't mind or don't care what you're like.
Depending on your age it may be harder because pretty well everyone under 25 is still kind of retarded. But it will get better. I don't experience any hardship from being a girly dude at all.
>>6303566
>not saying at all that men can't or shouldn't do away with their masculinity if they want to. There are plenty of trans people who do that and if someone has some asexuality or simply finds sexuality too bothersome then that's a perfectly fine reason as well.
Sounds like you just described OP. He doesn't like his sex drive. He wants it to go away or at least be reduced.
>>6304677
>I am hoping at least if I am less masc looking people will not expect this from me.
As a femboy I must say the expectations upon me from other people have totally changed since I started hormones. People treat me less like a man and more like I'm this weak cute fag. People never ask me to lift shit, people dont expect me to want or do anything masculine, etc. Girls totally treat me differently.
>>6299863
>If OP wanted to just continue being male without the effects of T on the brain, there are SARMs.
She doesn't though, she's obviously a repressed tranny. I mean look at this shit:
>>6297225
>Living without hormones sounds scary so I will take my chance with estro.
To whom the fuck does living without hormones sound scarier than turning into a girl? Typical trans feels manifesting as internalised misandry. Just don't be afraid to try the dick when the E does its work on you, hon.
>>6305042
Getting triggered again baneface? lol
>>6304677
>I feel like an Asian that can't do math/ black man with good credit/ Indian that uses a toilet
>Indian that uses a toilet
>>6305048
Who dat?
Anyway, you have to go back.
>>6304854
>>6304854
>>6304854
>>6304854
>>6305067
That's nice. Too bad no one cares what edgetards with terrible taste think.
>>6305073
That's nice. Too bad no one cares you're a mentally ill freak who will never, ever be a real girl. How does it feel knowing that you have missed out on having a cis girls life from birth? How does it feel knowing that no matter how far you come, at the end of the day you'll still be nothing but a man who has tinkered with his endocrine system and possibly gotten surgeries to appear more like a female, and no matter how far you come and no matter how much time passes, you will always have this following you? How does it feel having a man's skeleton inside you when you wish for nothing but to be a real girl? How does it feel knowing you can never inhabit your perfect body?
This alone shows why OP isn't one of you. It's unfortunate that nature struck you with this, but it clearly is not the case for OP. He isn't complaining about how he doesn't have a girls body. He is complaining about being too manly. He wants to be less many, he doesn't have this deep desire in him to be a girl that has haunted him his entire life.
He's not a tranny bro, sorry. You can call him a non-binary if you like - an entirely different type of trans person. But don't go calling him an MtF, because it's clear he is not one.
>>6305093
>who will never, ever be a real girl.
That's good, I'm happy being a man.
> How does it feel knowing that you have missed out on having a cis girls life from birth?
Not so bad. Women have some stuff good, but men have more stuff good.
"How does it feel knowing that no matter how far you come, at the end of the day you'll still be nothing but a man who has tinkered with his endocrine system
No clue on that part.
>How does it feel having a man's skeleton inside you
Awesome.
> when you wish for nothing but to be a real girl?
Sorry you lost me again. You're the one who's got gender dismorphia. I just like mocking your lol worthy role models.
>>6305118
>I'm happy being a man, that's why I've taken tons of steps to bring my body closer to the appearance of a female
Righto.
Either you're deluding yourself or you're not even a tranny. Congrats.
My whole point , which you apparently missed entirely due to your butthurt, was this: OP isn't a tranny.
Quit assuming that the only things that exist are cis men/women and mtf/ftm. There are more things than just that.
Enjoying no testosterone or wanting no testosterone =/= tranny. Even if someone wants to add estrogen that can be purely for health reasons, as it sounds to be for OP. Not everyone wants to tinker with SERMs and SARMs and such. If you don't want testosterone you've got only one other alternative if you want a natural human sex hormone. I'm sure he'd pick something else if there were something else as proven and reliable and as safe.
t. natural eunuch with no testosterone and no estrogen
>>6305149
AFAIK he doesn't think there's anything inherently wrong with being a male.
I think he doesn't like his own masculinity on himself. In no way shape or form does that make him a tranny. I'm sorry for assuming you're a tranny, but typically those are the only people so ridiculously uninformed on the issue and holding such stupid opinions in regards to it.
You like your own masculinity. Cool bro. Good for you. OP doesn't. Protip: not everyone is you.
