What's a MTF who wants to fully transition but is not deluded to think they are a girl ?
>>6297093
An MtF. Now shut up. Do you really think we need a label just for that?
>>6297093
What do you mean? What does it mean to you to be a girl?
There are no mtf who believe they fulfill the biological role of female in reproduction.
Although, for all intents and purposes, they are a girl socially and sexually express themself as a female.
>>6297093
a slightly less mentally ill mtf
>>6297093
an intersex person
>>6297093
A guy who's into trisecting penis bodymod.
>>6297093
a living fetish
>>6297658
Assuming the premise of OP's statement is entirely accurate, wouldn't that designate all MtF as some degree of AGP?
>>6297723
Only lesbian and bisexual MTFs have AGP. A completely hetero MTF by default can't have AGP because they do not have a sexual arousal for females.
Me, I dont really think I was born to be a gril but I think I would feel happier if I did.
>>6297736
That's a really outdated look on AGP. It was Blanchard's original approach but the common view has evolved since. More spectrum, less two different categories.
>>6297658
there are multiple intersex conditions that are not identified at birth though.
Even though the word has gone out of fashion, I think using the word transsexual instead of transgender can be useful in this context to differentiate between body (-sexual) and mind (-gender). So if OP experiences dysphoria and wants to change their body BUT does not "feel like a girl" inside of their own head, you could say they're transsexual but not transgender because the problem is physical and not due to a mental psychic bond with an identity.
Hope this makes sense. OP, you do you. IIRC, there are some neat interviews online with old MtFs who transitioned decades ago who felt that transition is a coping mechanism/solution but is not related to actually "being" a woman. They thought of it like a treatment for severe chronic dysphoria. Maybe you would find things in common with this older school of thought.
self hating mtf
>>6297800
What are the characteristics of gender consider that we are not talking about transexuality. How does thinking I'm a male or a female change something that is defined biologically. A female born as man still has a biological brain of man even if everything else changes correct ? If gender refers to what gender you "think" you are, then how do you define your thoughts as male or female apart from the societal constructs ? Thoughts don't have a gender, they are neutral.
>>6297093
A realistic person that understands the limitations of science and nature.
Now go do whatever you were doing, good luck with your transition and try to be happy or whatever tranny friend.
>>6297841
Versus delusional mtf.
>>6297723
Given how they'd often fantasize about having relationships with males as a female... I guess yes, but they'll have none of it.
>>6297759
Yes, I'm aware of that - immunity to androgens, chromosome anomalies, that sort of thing; I just didn't want to drop an entire paragraph.
>>6297841
Where does the self hating come from? You pretty much introduced that out of nothing.
>>6297858
Neither biology nor society can eliminate the other's influence in humans. Barring instances where biological defects prevent a given human from experiencing society
>>6297736
Because there is no such thing as a female bisexual or female homosexual. Therefore it is impossible for a male-to-female transsexual to be bisexual or homosexual.
You're retarded.
>>6297736
>A completely hetero MTF by default can't have AGP because they do not have a sexual arousal for females
Untrue, the category was ill-defined and basically just used as a catch-all for those that didn't fit into the homosexual transsexual catagory. Even if they had exclusive attraction to men if they didn't fit in with the idea of homosexual transsexuals it was reasoned that they just wanted to be with men as the ultimate fulfillment of femininity.
The categorization of homosexual transsexuals was just as stereotypical, portraying them as super-gays too effeminate to be accepted as men and with an insatiable desire for sex with men and especially straight men making them more acceptable to society as women. Some of the measures they used was counting things like sex-work as a plus and evidence of homosexual transsexuality and many believe that blanchard's work on transsexuals was actually a backdoor attempt to get homosexuals declared mentally ill again by showing trannies as a severe kind of homosexuality revealing the harm it can cause.
>>6297758
Logically it would be a spectrum, you cannot tell me Zinnia Jones would be exactly the same as Caitlyn Jenner or Stefonknee. Fuck even Jazz Jennings(HSTS) identifies as pan and is reluctant to get srs.
True believer Blanchardites still believe its a binary. Is there any pro AGP researchers that are even willing to admit its a spectrum?
>>6299096
>Logically it would be a spectrum
If you've ever taken a class involving actual logic you understand that you can logically arrive at conclusions that are incorrect, thus why science and medicine rely on empirical research for some measure of objective truth.
It makes perfect logical sense if you consider that the categories were created to pathologize homosexuality and other variation in sexuality.
>Is there any pro AGP researchers that are even willing to admit its a spectrum?
Frankly any attempt to salvage something useful out of AGP would take an entire reworking from the ground-up. Currently, the diagnostic measures show a huge incidence of APG when cis women are tested suggesting that either the diagnostic measures are broken and pathologize normal sexuality or "AGP" is something that is actually a lot more widespread among people in general and again may just be pathologizing variation in sexuality.
>>6297093
someone who can't sink into what they are completely and wants to live by the standards of people who will never accept them no matter what they do.
pretending you're a guy after all that estrogen and surgery isn't going to make republicans want to throw you in an asylum any less
>>6299140
reminds me of a quote i read somewhere a few years back, roughly
>You know what women get to call it when they turn themselves on by wear lacy lingerie and looking at themselves in the mirror? "Feeling sexy".
>>6297112
>we
lmao
>>6299657
By "we" I meant humanity, not just trannies or LGBT. Seriously, DO WE NEED A NEW WORD FOR SOMETHING OF LITTLE SIGNIFICANCE?
>>6300035
gross
>>6297093
Realistic and mature.
>>6299140
getting turned on thinking about your boyfriend fucking you later isn't AGP
>>6299140
Cis women are generally seen as THE sexual object, so it isn't THAT weird.
A lot of women clothes are designed EXACTLY to turn other people on, and a lot of times women wear them for that exact same reason: To turn other peoples on. Which is a turn-on in itself: feeling sexy (and beyond).
There you go, arousal when wearing female clothes, by women. Duh.
And in any case, checking for AGP in cis women and AAP in cis men would only tell you how much autoeroticism do they experience.
For chrissakes, I enjoy AGP fantasies but I also sometimes turn myself on, I enjoy feeling sexy; I like putting on a show for an appreciative partner... I'd give an AAP score too.
>>6300035
>non-sexual feminine activity e.g. knitting. cis women certainly don't get turned on by that
I wouldn't bet money on that, if you can imagine it there are probably people out there who are into it.
Anyway, the current diagnostics still show a huge incidence of agp in cis women so they're either broken or measuring some things that aren't so abnormal.
>>6301193
Except that the measures usually don't account for things like that and are more confirmation bias of pathologising sexuality which is why it results in so many positive assessments when given to cis women.
I'm not saying it's an issue with the general idea but the diagnostics are clearly broken and it's only made obvious when applied to women since they're a less acceptable target for pathologisation.
>>6301594
>Cis women are generally seen as THE sexual object, so it isn't THAT weird
Some similar stuff goes on with trans women in that people only want them to exist as a sexual object/when they want to fuck them and otherwise just want them to disappear.
>A lot of women clothes are designed EXACTLY to turn other people on, and a lot of times women wear them for that exact same reason: To turn other peoples on. Which is a turn-on in itself: feeling sexy (and beyond).
>There you go, arousal when wearing female clothes, by women. Duh.
But the issue is how it is used as justification for pathologisation in trans people but is just some sort of mistake of data for cis people.
I realise that there can be legitimate double standards in science, medicine and biology for different factors but it seems that in the case of AGP there's no reason for it other than it helping the data fit the predetermined view.
>>6300157
Y-yeah, that's pretty gross, right? haha what losers.. ha..
