I'm a mtf and I want a cis lesbian to like me so that I feel validated as a real girl.
There I said it.
>>6296017
Then why isn't a straight guy just as good?
>>6296022
because they remind me of how masculine i really am
>>6296022
she's not taken enough skittles yet
>>6296022
Because cis lesbians are (generally) much more selective.
A guy might want to be with me because he has a fetish or is desperate for love. There's a higher chance that a cis lesbian would only want me if they actually liked me and genuinely saw me as a girl.
>>6296017
Thats completely normal for a transgirl to want. Dont let that shithole cismale hideout parading around calling itself "cislesgen" tell you otherwise. Most lesbians arent as fucking histrionic as them, and if you keep looking you can find a cisles to date someday. Im a perfect example; Im dating a wonderful transgirl right now!
>>6296017
I'm a mtf and I want cocks shoved in my face all the time
There I said it.
I'm a mtf and the only reason I transitioned is to wear qt clothes and become my own 2d waifu
>>6296043
Lol what delusional loser dropped trip to post this hug boxing bs
You are such a crybaby not all men view trans women as fetishes but good luck finding a straight lesbian into trannies probably won't happen I've never met a cis lesbian that's into trans women maybe trans men
>>6296107
>lesbian
>into men
Pick one and only one.
>>6296105
>thinking thats more delusional than half of the shit on "cismale gen"
please, anon. youre fucking crazy if you think all lesbos hate trannies
>>6296081
LONDON
I don't hate trans people, and I'm a cis lesbian. I think you guys are nice people.
>>6296190
Found the tranny
>>6296200
W-will you touch my feminine girltinkler?
>>6296201
Found the retard
>>6296206
NO.
and if your agp then your agp, not trans
>>6296234
Don't bully femboys.
>>6296024
>Comparing a cis woman's feminine face; wide hips; voice; natural, full breasts; and childhood to yourself makes you feel more masculine than comparing yourself to a tall; stubbled; short-haired; strong-jawed; wonderfully hairy; V-shaped; manbeast
Stop lying to yourself, senpai. Just admit you're only into women if that's what it is.
>>6296028
The only explanation that makes sense, or at least more than the one above.
>>6296033
So just fear.
If he wants you for a relationship and not just a booty call, is not a lonely neckbeard, and introduces you to his family or plans to, I see no reason to doubt he sees you as a woman. The amount of guys willing to date trans girls is still larger than the amount of cis lesbians willing to date a trans girl.
>>6296043
I wonder this about cis women in relationships with trans women:
Do you make her behave more masculine/dominant in bed? Do you make her use her penis for vaginal or oral penetration? If you have any cis female friends that have dated trans girls, have they done that?
>>6296171
You must not see all of the FtM posts about the only women (perhaps even people) interested in them being cis lesbians.
>>6296234
Do you believe there's such a thing as a non-AGP transbian?
>>6296257
I thought there was, .....
please explain said phenomenon to me
How is it possible to be trans (as in transitioning) and not suffer from dysmorphia?
I'm a butch lesbian with a cock , and I knew Steve Jobs, what now haterz?
>>6296257
>You must not see all of the FtM posts about the only women (perhaps even people) interested in them being cis lesbians.
If you're attracted to men, you're not a lesbian.
>>6296275
People can suffer from dysmorphia to the point of anorexia and self harm, but not be bothered by genitals. You don't really see the parts of your body that are permanently covered so it's no surprise.
Femgen is pretty much an example of that tbqh, even if they are guys.
>>6296346
hmm. You have enlightened me anon. you are correct on said account. Yet if you don't want to be the opposite sex then you still fall in the agp department, and if you are looking to just transition to the opposite sex, then what should that be called?
You are not a real girl though. You are a man who has messed with their endocrine system in order to appear more like a female.
T. realistic tranny
>>6296506
Y-yeah but if you are cute and would be my girlfriend (or tranfriend if you prefer) it's fine
>>6296257
>Do you make her behave more masculine/dominant in bed?
I've never liked that people use the word "masculine" for someone that is dominant. Being dominant, amd calling it masculine, is really only a social stereotype. I'm a lesbian, and have never had a relationship with anyone I would consider "Masculine". Also, its rare that we ever fall into one person being only one role. It totally depends on our moods and who feels like being dom/top. Lots of switching.
>Do you make her use her penis for vaginal or oral penetration?
What?? No. I would never "make" her do anything unless I had a feeling she wanted me to take control and do so. She has genital dysphoria anyway, so we rarely ever touch that area. Sometimes she feels up to it, but usually only oral, VERY rarely she wants to put it in me, but I dont really like it cause I have to spend an hour calming her down as she freaks out about how penetration makes her "less of a woman"...
>If you have any cis female friends that have dated trans girls, have they done that?
I know a few, but I dont really talk to them about their sex lives. Its not really my place to ask.
>>6296275
Hope this isn't too long. Well, this is how Blanchard lays it out:
Homosexual transsexuals (is and always has been androphilic; not AGP)
>Feminine since childhood and plays with girls toys
>Has only (or mostly, I'm not sure) female friends in early childhood
>Transitions before age 25 usually (likely to not be a distinguishing feature in the future because of the internet and greater social acceptability)
>Does not crossdress as an erotic activity
>Gets jobs women are more likely to take
Nonhomosexual transsexuals (biseuxuals, gynephiles, asexuals; AGP)
>Appear to be normal boys and spend time doing boys or gender neutral things
>Few, if any friends in early childhood
>Transition after marriage and kids (again, likely to not see this as much as time goes on because of the internet and more public understanding)
>Crossdresses as an erotic activity
>Has fantasies about having a sexy female body and focuses on those female body parts (Imagines themselves with voluptuous curves, focuses heavily on how feminine they look/feel/are and their vagina)
>Have an average IQ of 121 if you believe one Dutch study (SD was calculated to be 17 points)
>Gets jobs men are more likely to take
He sees AGP as an "erotic target location error" and that it is a sexual orientation that competes with male heterosexuality. He hypothesizes there is some brain defect which causes a man to see in himself a romantic target instead of seeing a woman from the outside world as a valid target and so crafts a woman from himself to love. He then goes to any length to give this internal woman anything to make her happy/bring them together. They then transition. Literally becoming their own gf, in summation.
>>6296234
friendly reminder you can be both B)
>>6296275
>>6296684
I have my issues with his theory, but that's how Blanchard views it.
He also divides autogynephilia into four categories behavioral (doing activities that are considered what females do), anatomic (having a female body), physiological (body functions of a female body like pregnancy or mestruation), and transvestic (dressing in women's clothes). He included the idea of having sex as a woman with men under behavioral. However, Bailey or Lawrence hypothesized there is a fifth, interpersonal. Interpersonal autogynephilia is being appreciated by others as an attractive woman. This is where they reassign the idea of having sex as a woman with men because those with the behavioral type don't always score high on interpersonal fantasies and those that score high on interpersonal don't always score high on behavioral. Apparently, bisexuals dominate the interpersonal division of AGP. Also, the proportion of homosexual vs. non-homosexual transsexuals in a country seems to relate to the country's Hofstede individualism index, where less collectivist cultures have more HSTS and individualist nations like the US have more nonhomosexuals. Gynephiles tend to report having AGP at about an 85% rate while about 65% of bisexual and asexuals report having it. It's not known why that is.
My explanation for why nonhomosexuals transition on average after the ages homosexual transsexuals do is because HSTS are often already wrapped up in LGBT culture for being gay men in their teenage years and feel very little need to perform to expectations placed upon males because they have never conformed, while nonhomosexuals often believe themselves to be straight guys before their realization and may have a fear of stepping outside the box of expectations they have already conformed to so far.
>>6296275
>>6296684
>>6296697
They might have an exaggerated fear of how people will react to finding out they wish to be/see themselves as women when everyone else knew them as reasonably masculine, so they feel they have to go to their graves with their secret to remain consistent. They may also hope it will go away and they'll be normal guys with time, so they go into a male-dominated field (military, STEM, labor, etc.), get a girlfriend, marry her, and have children. Each of these successive steps is supposed to make them feel comfortable being men, but they all fail. The same Dutch study that mentioned nonhomosexual IQ also stated that homomosexual transsexuals score higher on extroversion than nonhomosexuals. It would be interesting to answer the question of whether nonhomosexuals are more introverted because they try to bury their secret, or they bury their secret because they're introverted.
>>6296289
Oh, so it was a joke.
>>6296684
Hm. Does Blanchard think it possible to be a weird mix of the two? Like, I would say that I seemed like a pretty normal boy up until like freshman year of HS, when I started having fantasies about being a girl. That seems to be consistent with being AGP, but I absolutely have NO sexual thoughts about myself being a woman... often the opposite when I look in the mirror, I can rarely ever stomach seeing myself, because I just see a disgusting man. I am only really romantically attracted to girls which is consistent again with AGP, but I am VERY physically attracted to men which I compromised perfectly with dating a non-op transgirl. Also transitioned at 23, so right in the very late edge of normal... Idk what to think now...
>>6296748
Damn, I was hoping you'd be down for getting fucked by me in front of your GF
>>6296257
>non agp transbian
Literally does not exist. Never met a transbian that wasn't aroused by their own reflection or aroused by thoughts of themself as female.
at least some of us have the balls to admit it though. I transitioned because I thought it'd be better for my sex life (and it has been). Now when I have sex there's two times the number of bewbs to squeeze
>>6296782
uh... what....? sorry, but im taken anon...
>>6296797
It sounds to me like your projecting pretty hard there... I doubt anything I say would ever change your mind, and Im not saying Im -not- agp, but I didnt lie in my post. I -do not- get aroused at the thought of being a girl. I just dont.
>>6296748
I am pretty sure Blanchard would place you in the AGP category and say that you are lying about not having AGP. He often claims that patients have lied about not having AGP because of a desire to seem legitimate to themselves or to not seem like a freak (social desirability) because he tried to give no reasons for someone to lie about being or not being AGP (supported transition for both groups).
>>6296823
Cause NOBODY lies in an attempt to get something they want
>>6296275
Ah, I forgot the part that most directly answered your question.
Adding on to
>>6296684
>>6296697
>>6296701
The dysphoria that AGPs experience is thus not too significant or noticeable for them at first, but as time goes on where they age and embed themselves more deeply in masculine behaviors, the more uncomfortable they feel with themselves. This is what precipitates transition.
>>6296832
Blanchard's point was they were going to get their titty skittles and surgery approval letters no matter which camp they fell into, so they had no reason to lie because they would be denied of treatment. From that, he came up with the two explanations for lying I stated before: in order to not seem like they're fetishists to themselves (so they feel they're doing it for the right reasons and feel they're actually women on the inside) or trying to not seem like a fetishist to him so he doesn't judge them.
>>6296823
So the answer would just be that Im a liar, no matter how true it is that I feel no attraction to myself as a woman? I havent ever felt any kind of need to legitimize my transition... until now... but how could I possibly prove how I feel? I havent felt this conflicted in a long time...
>>6296684
I used to greatly value Blanchard up until recently but I saw a lot of interesting points raised against his hypothesis. The biggest of which is that his theory does not allow for autoandrophilia - the FTM equivalent - because autogynephilia is a paraphilia and only men can have those in any significant number. As recently as 2013 he has publicly stated that he doesn't believe autoandros exist. This goes against a lot of people describing themselves that way.
If, then, sexually fantasizing about yourself as being of the other gender is not a paraphilia then Blanchard's dichotomy begins to look arbitrary. Why would people fall into these two exclusive groups if FTMs experience similar feelings without being classified along similar lines? Why would homosexual biomen be less susceptible - no, immune! - to developing such feelings while both *aesexuals* and *bisexuals* could develop them?
The second argument against AGP goes like this:
1) AGP is a fetish
2) Female hormones diminish sex drive in biological men
3) Transitioning ought *diminish* the enjoyment of AGP, a fetish so central to one's life that many are willing to risk everything - job, friends, future, life - in order to engage in it.
4) MTFs who have transitioned and previously reported AGP widely report feeling better after transitioning. This makes little sense since actually transitioning should have reduced their want to be as they are!
5) It makes little sense to think of AGP as a simple fetish.
In the end I think it is because Blanchard tried to cast the entire phenomena through the lens of what a proper cis woman should be socially, and proper cis women only like men. This is not to devalue the work of Blanchard, who was the first to speak of transsexuals who reported this sort of self arousal, but to say that perhaps his work is outdated and is only so frequently quoted now because of various political factions favoring it. The recent DSM has largely dismissed his input on the subject.
>>6296883
Now, a full disclosure post: I'm a highly confused AGP sufferer. I've had obsessive thoughts about boys becoming girls since I was 5 or 4. I have not and could never enter a relationship as a man. I do not despise my body completely beyond it being ugly but I would greatly prefer to have a woman's body. I cannot get aroused about a fantasy involving me without imagining myself as a woman. I feel a strong, burning need to become a woman.
Sounds like that classical trans tale, right? But at the same time the mere thought of a man becoming a woman turns me on and though I'm really ashamed of admitting it I've been masturbating to such thoughts for over a decade at this point. I don't have to be the focal point of such fantasies. They can be and frequently are about other people. So just a genderbending fetish, right? but what kind of a transsexual gets aroused by just imagining their happy non-sexual daily life post transitioning? What kind of a woman is aroused by the thought of herself engaging in stereotypically feminine activities?
tl;dr I have no fucking clue what I am or how I function. Send help.
>>6296923
Clearly you're just a big ole' liar, and you actually DO feel sexually attracted to yourself as a girl!
Im joking, but Im starting to wonder if its possible that someone can learn to lie so incedibly well that even they never realise they are lying to themselves.
>>6296937
About being trans or not being trans? Probably some on both sides desu.
>>6296017
>mfw my cis girl lesbian friend said I was the only person born with a penis that she would date and considered me female
>>6296943
Im this anon >>6296858
I meant more lying about being attracted to the thought if being a woman... I -honestly- dont ever remember being attracted to the idea of being a woman... and I definitely dont now... but Im wondering if its possible that an agp person could lie to themselves so deeply about that feeling that they never even realized they felt it...
>>6296957
Im slowly coming to realization that that's me. Had desphoria for about 5 years, and just this year i finally started to think that i may just be agp.
>mfw im just a big fucking perv
>>6296957
Fucked up confused person here. Don't let some outdated dichotomy tell you that you *must* have had such an experience. I did, you didn't. It is fully possible that you didn't and I did. People are different. The scientific community at large no longer accepts this strict dichotomy. Crossgender arousal is treated as a distinct thing.
For the record it is less being attracted to myself and more being aroused by the thought of a man becoming a woman. At times I fantasize about myself as having already transitioned without being turned on which I guess means there's something about the process.
>>6296858
Well, he conducted one study where he pulled four AGP groups together. One group claimed to always be aroused during crossdressing, another sometimes, the third rarely, and the final never. He played them all four audio tapes. One was a narrative of doing something non-sexual and ordinary. There was also a crossdressing tape. Finally, there were two sex act tapes: one of sex with a woman as a man and the other was sex with a man as a woman. While they listened to the tapes, he recorded how much blood entered their penis using plethysmography (there are other studies casting doubt on the effectiveness of plethysmography to measure arousal, but he went with it anyway).
Sorted from most to least arousing, this is how the groups found each tape (my memory is probably not 100% right on this, but this was the broad idea):
>Always
Crossdressing, sex with woman as man, sex with man as woman, nonsexual
>Sometimes
Sex with man as woman, crossdressing, sex with woman as man , nonsexual
>Rarely
Sex with man as woman, sex with woman as man, crossdressing, nonsexual
>Never
Same as rarely
No one found the nonsexual tapes arousing, but everyone found the crossdressing tapes arousing to some degree. So that's part of why he feels justified in believing everyone who fits more into the AGP model is lying if they say they don't have AGP.
>>6296883
Playing devil's advocate: your second argument has been answered before. The problem is some AGPs in the time leading up to transition are deeply distressed by their fantasies, so some remain on the meds anyway like castration for a pedophile that doesn't want to harm kids. Some also do stop taking the meds thinking they don't need them anymore (just like antidepressants). Of course there are others that have neither reaction because they do appreciate the feminization.
>>6296957
I didn't want to have to ask this, but before you said you have an attraction to guys. Are the men in your fantasies faceless or full-featured?
>>6296974
They arent just fantasies. I've had sex with 6 AMAB guys or whatever, 4 of which were cisguys. I just find phallic things very sexually attractive. I just dont ever feel romantically attracted to guys, and feel more comfortable falling asleep non-sexually next to a woman. Not sure if that matters, but to answer your question, if I fantasize about sex I used picture a guy I had a crush on in HS, but now just picture my mtf wife.
>everyone found the crossdressing tapes arousing to some degree.
Thats interesting.... I wish I could have explored that back before transition... just to be sure... the closest thing I can think of is that my wife was really into "sissification" stuff before she transitioned, and jokingly made me listen to it when we were digging through her old closet. I didnt get turned on or really find it attractive... but its not really the same thing...
>>6296974
>Playing devil's advocate: your second argument has been answered before. The problem is some AGPs in the time leading up to transition are deeply distressed by their fantasies, so some remain on the meds anyway like castration for a pedophile that doesn't want to harm kids. Some also do stop taking the meds thinking they don't need them anymore (just like antidepressants). Of course there are others that have neither reaction because they do appreciate the feminization.
I feel this is a valid point but not a rebuttal in the sense that it seems unlikely for all of these situations to account for every AGP-transitioner, of which there are as many as their dichotomic counterpart.
>I didn't want to have to ask this, but before you said you have an attraction to guys. Are the men in your fantasies faceless or full-featured?
Not that person but I think you might find my response interesting. People in my fantasies are generally faceless and if not formless then highly abstracted. Situations and emotions matter more than body parts. Clothes, though, are sometimes prominent.
>>6297014
>>6297012 here
I find it interesting that you see faceless forms during fantasies.... What do you mean by "situations" matter more. Like, do you fantasize about the foreplay leading up to the sex more than the sex itself? Or do you fantasize about situations during sex... like bdsm roleplay and stuff? Just genuinely curious.
>>6297012
Did you look the guys in the eyes/face, or did you try to avoid looking at them?
>>6297105
I try to look my lovers in the face out of respect... but if I had the choice, I'd probably leave the lights off due to being self conscious.
>>6296684
>feminine since childhood
>only had female friends in early childhood
>transitioned at 16
>don't crossdress as an erotic activity
>never had sexual fantasies about my body
BUT I'M BI SO I'M AGP
>>6297034
All of the above, but I usually don't have a concrete picture of the actors. More of an abstract sense of them. Plus I'm, embarrassingly enough, aroused by the thought of a man becoming a woman and engaging in a non-sexual but stereotypically feminine activity such as taking care of the house or shopping for clothes. Weird as hell.
So if you do have sexual attraction to being a woman, with minor thoughts towards other more social aspects of transitioning, is it wrong to transition? do you think ultimately you will end up unhappy?
>>6296107
>not all men view trans women as fetishes
SO delusional. straight men would rather die loser lonely virgins than fuck a man or a tranny
>>6297780
Shit's complicated. I suggest that you read about all of the various approaches to AGP and go see a therapist. Note that even the most radical suggest transitioning might help some but not all.
>>6297802
Straight man here can confrm.
Real girls are already a bag full of crazy.
Trannies are enough crazy for a dozen real girls.
>>6296257
>tall; stubbled; short-haired; strong-jawed; wonderfully hairy; V-shaped; manbeast
i almost vomited in my mouth reading this
>>6297121
>what is lying to yourself
You need to be honest with yourself anon.
>>6297814
You shouldn't troll emotionally vulnerable people m8. They might actually listen.
>ITT Transbians trying to rationalize and find an excuse to what kind of person they are attracted to without reducing the validity of their GID.
Feels good to be bi.
>>6296883
This I supposedly have "AGP" yet HRT nuked my sex drive and I still want to be a girl. The whole theory is /pol/ tier
>>6297872
Could you please tell me about yourself? As someone who is struggling with understanding themself and who experienced crossgender arousal I'd really appreciate it.
Im mtf, im pansexual and poly... but im basically into dicks. Lol. Anyways... i agree. Guys are often tgirl chasers. And that nakes me feel like shit desu. My first relationship was a guy who was a chaser. Not fun. So getting a lesbians approval would be so amazing.
>>6297905
0-10 didn't think about my gender
10 - 14 saw some naked women wondered why I didn't have a vagina
14 - 18 exclusively fapped to the thought of sex as a woman, had crushes on girls otherwise
18 - 20 get annoyed that my skin isn't smooth like other girls, wish I had cute hair, start wearing makeup and wigs in private
20 - 24 Have sex with hookers, find it boring, Get depressed over no friends, go on anti-depressants, what little sexual interest I had in women is now completely gone, dysphoria blows up, don't feel male at all.
24 find out about transition think about it a lot, come to the conclusion that I've always preferred to look and act female but ignored it as a curiosity or fetish but now I've turned out as an awkward misfit of a man I have no reason to bury this anymore. My mum understands but psychologist thinks I'm just a beta looking for an easier life. I think to myself "if I gained the perfect male life, rich, lots of women, lots of friends would I be happy?" The answer is no because I've never had any strong interest in using my penis and my delayed puberty is really starting to horrify me. I wanted to look like a girl way before I was a social fuck up.
So yes I believe I'm genuinely trans, not in it for the fetish because I have no sex drive now and still want to be a girl and not some chris-chan tier plan to improve my social life because I've been interested in being female from long before I got socially awkward. I had a best friend all through school, I was still stealing my mum's shoes.
Also the HRT has pretty much cured my social awkwardness, I feel great now and I get along great with people. Fuck that psychologist.
>>6298010
Thank you very much.
It is interesting how a lot of people who "had AGP" and transitioned really just fantasized about sex as a woman i.e. their proper gender. Women have also been shown to fantasize about themselves in a sexual situation so it makes sense. What gives me pause about my own situation is the whole TG fetish applying to other people and non-sexual behavior. I think you can be comfortable in the knowledge that you are "genuine", whatever that means, because your fantasies just match those of women.
>>6298232
Your welcome. Good luck in your transition.
As cis lesbian, I would date a trans woman. But in a romantic way. I will have to think about having ser with her u know
"Autogynephilia" is a stupid and nonsensical concept.
What cis woman doesn't like to imagine herself as an attractive woman?
>>6297014
>People in my fantasies are generally faceless and if not formless then highly abstracted. Situations and emotions matter more than body parts
Oh my gosh, me too.
When I'm fantasizing, I don't really think about what my partner looks like, but more in terms of character archetypes. Like, whether he's a suave noble type, or a rugged highwayman or w/e
>>6296017
A lesbian likes me for being femmine, now I am pre-hrt, feels nice.
>>6300106
There is a meaningful difference between fantasizing about being a hot woman having sex and fantasizing about being a woman period and being turned on by that, especially if the latter involves performing a traditionally feminine non-sexual activity. I think cis woman certainly experience the former and certainly don't experience the latter.
>>6300329
This.
AGP's don't just eroticize female sexuality, they eroticize femininity itself.
AGP is like... sissy fetishists who get turned on while doing household chores.
>>6300106
im a transgirl with auto-androphilia
its really hard for me not to be attracted to my male features
pls send help
Is autoandrophilia a thing?
>>6300549
I think that's just being a narcissist.
I feel you though. Every time I look down, all I can think is "I want this thing in my mouth right the fuck now."
>>6300518
Well, not exactly. As seen in this thread some had the cis female style AGP exclusively while others had the other kind. Both would qualify as AGP by Blanchard.
>>6300565
>>6300607
Blanchard is a fucking quack, why do we keep citing this guy?
>>6300628
Because AGP was invented by him and only possibly makes any sense in the context of his work. Otherwise why discuss the term he made up?
>>6296097
cringe
I'm bi and I wouldn't fuck you. No offense, but I'd be worried about my safety. You have all sorts of mental issues, STDs and such stats show. Not to mention I don't want someone catching too many feelings.
How you lool is one thing and may be overcome, I've seen some attractive trans girls. Actually being with what is essentially a tall, strong man in a dress in a room all alone is a whole other thing.
>>6300628
because idiots feel the need to quote every definition of "AGP" back to him even though AGP is very real in the fact of dudes wanting to get off to themselves looking like women with no intention of transitioning.
>>6300645
>>6300645
>tfw no tall, strong man in a dress
>>6300628
AGP exists. Blanchard's standards for AGP diagnosis might have been an oppressive attempt at policing trans women's sexuality, but that doesn't mean AGP isn't a thing.
I think a good rule of thumb is that if you only want to be a woman when you're horny, if you stop wanting to be a woman after you cum, you're not trans.
>>6300799
Isnt that sort of boiling down his theories a bit too much though? I mean just look at the conversations above. According to Blanchard, literally anyone that didnt play with dolls as a child is AGP, and -every one- of those people has sexual fantasies about dressing as a woman. Lots of people that otherwise perfectly fit his typology but later transition and are happy living as a woman even with absolutely no sex drive would still be considered AGP to him.
>>6296017
You are an AGP fetishist who wants to stick their penis inside a cis girl stemming from your manly urges.
There I said it.
>>6300106
I know! What cis woman doesn't fap furiously looking at herself in the mirror?
>>6300106
Unlike you they're not getting off to their own femininity.
>>6300799
Have you read this thread? There are some people myself included) that both feel aroused by the thought of being a woman and still want to be women later.
>>6300549
>MtF, Intense gender dysphoria, had to transition
>Exclusively attracted to women
>But only able to be aroused if I think of myself as a man during sex, always want to be dominant and aggressive, only fap to porn with a man to self insert as fucking women
My mind is an enigma.
>>6296017
There's a good chance that it will never happen in your life. Best to learn to live with it.
![[visible confusion].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Z27hmNS.jpg "[visible confusion].jpg")
>>6296017
>NB
>only want to date bisluts to feel validated
>which is retarded because they would still see me as a girl and be attracted when they're bi
>>6300561
Seems pretty common in fujoshi and the like
>>6302832
>>But only able to be aroused if I think of myself as a man during sex
>self insert as fucking women
You mean you see yourself differently during sex and masturbation? Or what?
>mtf trans
>wanted to be a girl since I was 3, always had dysphoria
>romantically attracted to girls
>don't like using my penis at all, don't even like looking at it
>don't fap because I don't like touching my junk
>usually get off using magic wand over underwear or from butt/nipples
>don't want srs because surgery is scary to me
>just want someone to hold me and tell me it'll be ok
>tfw no one to dress up in matching outfits/cosplay with
>tfw unlovable weirdo
>>6296033
>A guy might want to be with me because he has a fetish or is desperate for love. There's a higher chance that a cis lesbian would only want me if they actually liked me and genuinely saw me as a girl.
You'd be surprised. Male chasers are far more prevalent and thus so are tales of their sleaziness, but most of the real psycho chaser stories come from cis girls.
>>6296022
a lot of Men don't really know what women look like.
>>6300628
You know i thought this to, but it seems like a lot of people believe in him. Is this to say his theorys hold serious weight? I mean do people just do because they are told to and don't actually research?
>>6304992
>bitches be cray
Men murder their trans girlfriends, but sure, whatever you say.
>>6305189
maybe if you're black, mexican or you live with a bunch of meth heads
>>6305330
No way. Men often hurt the women they are with. This is doubly true for transwomen.
>>6311566
>not seeing the 50% of lesbians report being abused by a female partner statistic
>>6311597
>tfw mtfs don't know the truth about men
rip tbqh
>>6296403
You don't actually have any idea what you're talking about, do you?
>>6311631
>implying you can't know the truth about men when they let their guard down around you pre-transition and say how they really feel about women to each other
>>6296017
that's how most transbians are
also the reason why many mtf, mistakenly, seek female company, go to female therapists, etc.
it never end well tho
>>6296257
Trans girl in a relationship with a cis girl here: she's usually the one who's dominant in bed. We do PIV sometimes but not particularly often, and I don't usually want to receive oral. I'm much more into getting on my knees and going down on her while she pulls my hair and calls me a slut and that kind of thing. I'll go down on her strap on sometimes too but anal usually hurts too much for it to be a regular thing for us.
>>6305079
People just use his theories to justify their previously held beliefs and it has become a popular meme around here.
It's pretty obvious because they usually misstate the research and seem to have no idea or care about what he actually said.
He considered both groups were equally legitimate in their need to transition and sorted all trannies into one group or the other rather than agp being some separate non-tru-trans exception like shitposters suggest.
If you didn't fit into the homosexual transsexual category then you were made to fit into the agp category regardless of if you were bi or even exclusively attracted to men or else the data was excluded(selective bias is one of the big complaints against his research, irreproducibility aside).
His primary focus was on homosexual transsexuals with agp being the catch-all for whoever didn't fit his expectations and many believe that his work on trannies was actually an attempt at a backdoor to pathologizing homosexuality again which he and his allies and supporters in the medical community advocate for.
He pathologized normal sexuality in both groups but other researchers took the idea of agp and ran with it but with little solid science behind it. The diagnostic measures that are supposed to identify agp show a huge incidence of positive results when given to cis women, suggesting either that it pathologizes normal sexuality or that "agp" is something that is actually a lot more widespread and may be just another facet of human sexuality.
>>6316750
Yeah it couldn't possibly be that they seek out female doctors to be more comfortable like cis women sometimes do.
>>6317827
>It has become a popular meme
I might have contributed to this. Did a lot of research lately. Read of many different approaches. While his approach is rooted in contempt for us and things have moved past his theories his theory is still the only one which accounts for my experience without erasing it as uncomfortable. See:
>>6317427
I feel like the wider community is fully ready to throw me under the bus because I make them look bad. Either that or they try to deny my experience. Hell, I embarrass myself, but at least gay-hating-Ray believes I'm A Thing.
>>6317884
OP of that thread here (also >>6316903). My biggest issue is the idea that wanting to take on a feminine role during sex is somehow deviant for a transfeminine person. I love it when my girlfriend treats me like a woman in bed and why wouldn't I? Why would it be weird for me to want to be sexy for her? It doesn't seem fetishistic to me in the slightest to want to enjoy my sexuality as it is, and not to erase your experiences whatsoever (and please continue to identify as AGP if that's what makes you feel comfortable, your comfort in your identification comes first), but it seems like folks who do self-identify with AGP as a pathology seem to have a lot of deep-seated shame in their sexuality, and I don't think it's right or fair that they should have to feel that way in the first place.
>>6317925
I don't exactly identify as AGP out of choice haha. Just trying to be honest with myself. Yes, I am ashamed, primarily because I feel that it is absurd to both want to be a woman and sometimes get an actual boner at the mere thought. With that said I think that Blanchard's theory is very problematic in the sense that it conflates all different kinds of fantasies where one might imagine themselves as a woman.
As I've written elsewhere I think the kinds of fantasies you describe - wherein you just imagine yourself as embodying a woman in a sexy situations - is perfectly natural for anyone with a feminine gender identity and dubbing it AGP is bullshit. Actual women do the same. On the other hand getting off to "wew I was a guy but now I'm a girl" seems pretty AGP.
tl;dr go forth and be happy you get the official trutrans stamp of approval.
>>6296883
The rebuttal to this is AGP is an orientation, it has a sexual and a romantic component. So although a man is not aroused in a male way by his personal feminity anymore, he is still attached to it and deeply in love with it.
This AGP as an orientation theory also misses the idea that estrogen rewires the brain to some degree and can create a whole new sexdrive. So if they're aroused by their femininity, it will be in a more female way.
I have a sneaking suspicion that some ciswomen have strong AGP. I'm not just talking about Moser's controversial supposedly flawed study either. Pay close attention to females and female culture. Notice how some women really exagerrate their femininity? A gendercritical feminist would say they've been brainwashed or desperatly seeking approval, typical projection from repressed FtMs. I say some women get extreme enjoyment out of it like a male AGP would. If anything, possibly more than a male AGP, since they experience full blown femininity without their maleness getting in the way.
>>6318230
I should also mention ciswomen won't have a clue about any of this and rationalise it away as "cuz i'm a girl lol".
I made cis girlfriends who accept me and it still isn't enough. FFS won't be enough. To realize all your goals at thirty feels painful, not victorious.
>>6318313
I'm sorry, senpai.
>>6318313
Thats why I'll probably just be genderqueer/fluid and see what happens upon death.
>>6313716
It it enlightening, the change in how they act around you post-transition.
>>6313716
I mean, I'm sure girls are just as bad when guys aren't around. But, yeah, it kinda fucks you up having to listen to all of that.
>>6317884
Not to invalidate your experiences and feelings but I'd say that the lack of clear reproducible research and diagnostic methodology makes the current concept of agp largely worthless.
It's so ill-defined and quantified that a huge range of different and even contradictory experiences can seem to fit it. As can be seen quite often on this board and in this very thread people take it to mean whatever they want it to regardless of the actual research and much of what is available is based on false premises that don't hold up to repeated testing.
You can't really separate the concept of agp from the original research and its part in the two-group classification without entirely new research from the ground-up.
Personally, I believe many people who identify with the agp label are trans people who for whatever reason thought they couldn't be trans and latched onto agp as a simple explanation.
You said that you fantasised about the idea of becoming a women long before there was any sexual element and that later you began to want to be a woman in non-sexual contexts. Sexuality is a huge part of people's personalities and I don't think it's terribly unusual that sexuality can become muddled and mixed with dysphoria or othe rissues during repression/prior to realisation/acceptance.
>While I do not outright hate my body I find it disgusting
Maybe there's more to the idea that you attach to those words without saying so but from an outside view those don't seem terribly different and trans people describe their feelings towards their bodies in varying ways.
Aside from the aforementioned sexual confusion that can come from a lack of acceptance, people trans or cis can have transformation fetishes.
Assholes will always try to throw eachother under the bus with any excuse for the promise of acceptance, look at the "drop the T" or "I'm one of the good gays, not like those faggot degenerates!" shitposters.
Cute thread.
I want to meet a cis girl, and there be a connection. A real one that shows me love. She would laugh at my stupidity and she wouldn't mind my lip sticked lips and broad shoulders or my long straight blonde hair. She would be intimidated by my skinny jeans and combat boots and my pointy tits. Just saying.
>>6317827
>selective bias is one of the big complaints against his research, irreproducibility aside).
more comments on this?
>>6319924
Keep fighting, Anon. There is a woman out there that will love you for exactly who you are. Take it from someone who is living the dream, it really is possible. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
>inb4 b-but muh anti-hugboxx
>>6319890
>...
>You can't really separate the concept of agp from the original research and its part in the two-group classification without entirely new research from the ground-up.
That's fair and probably true. I suppose I latched to it because everyone else were going "btw you don't exist :^)"
>Personally, I believe many people who identify with the agp label are trans people who for whatever reason thought they couldn't be trans and latched onto agp as a simple explanation.
Could be, but if you look at the other thread there are some who at this point just want to be trans, myself included. The fear is being a fraud.
>You said that you fantasised about the idea of becoming a women long before there was any sexual element and that later you began to want to be a woman in non-sexual contexts. Sexuality is a huge part of people's personalities and I don't think it's terribly unusual that sexuality can become muddled and mixed with dysphoria or othe rissues during repression/prior to realisation/acceptance.
I would like this to be true but it just seems too convenient an explanation, no? Like the opposite case it seems to be based on very little but wanting a certain result and trying to justify it. I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of transsexuals are legitimate and everything but it is absolutely bizarre to dream of and long for a better future then feel yourself get slightly stiff. If crossdressing is a behavior intended to alleviate dysphoria than why does it turn on people like me every time, come the first article of clothing? I don't even bother anymore because I feel like I'm mocking myself.
>>6319890
cont.
>Maybe there's more to the idea that you attach to those words without saying so but from an outside view those don't seem terribly different and trans people describe their feelings towards their bodies in varying ways.
Like everything else the feeling developed with time. I used to think this was just because I was ugly but a few years ago I honestly asked myself what kind of a an ideal male body I'd like and the answer was "none". Some days I'm fine, on others not so much.
>Aside from the aforementioned sexual confusion that can come from a lack of acceptance, people trans or cis can have transformation fetishes.
This is basically my one hope. The alternative just seems more likely given everything else.
I'm sorry for reducing the conversation to me whining about myself. It is awkward writing this but thank you for trying to help me.
>>6320047
Awww, thank you. I believe that what you say is the truth. I will meet the right girl eventually. I just need to be patient and show more compassion for myself (i.e. believe that I'm dateable and deserving of love). Our relationship would depend on her ability to accept (or not care) that I had a rough past, and that all scares me...
My fingers are crossed.
>>6320397
>I suppose I latched to it because everyone else were going "btw you don't exist :^)"
Take a look in the tranny threads sometime, there are those who will constantly try to invalidate eachother for any excuse, appearance, when you transitioned, hobbies, fashion, having fetishes even completely unrelated to transition. It's even gotten to the point that some of it is an in-joke/meme for the tranny generals.
There is also talk about how sexuality and feelings of dysphoria can become mixed and confused before you understand and accept yourself and some there have personal experience with it.
>The fear is being a fraud.
But that's just kinda tranny stuff too, we have society constantly attacking and questioning our validity and identity, /pol/ posting misinformation daily, every armchair psychologist with an internet connection think they know what's REALLY going on with "the degenerates", and self-hate over not being normal. There are even at least two or three regulars in the general who identify as "feminine boys" or something like that because they can't accept themselves as "reel womyn."
The top two fears I see from people considering transition are "what if I don't pass" and "what if I'm wrong and just a crazy pervert or something."
>I would like this to be true but it just seems too convenient an explanation, no?
It's convientient for you but simpley the reality of their personal experiences for others for many others. You could likewise consider agp a "convienient answer."
I'm no doctor and you should see a specialist but it's possible you just developed an attraction to clothing from your repression or even just have some unrelated clothing-fetish. It could also be another case of pathologizing sexuality in trans people that is considered normal in cis people.
>>6320410
>Like everything else the feeling developed with time
How long it takes to realise things varies from person to person with repression and just lack of exposure to good info. I constantly see trans peopel saying that they just didn't know transition was really an option when they were younger because all they'd seen was drag-queens and the like and that didn't match what they felt.
>I used to think this was just because I was ugly but a few years ago I honestly asked myself what kind of a an ideal male body I'd like and the answer was "none"
Back when I was in repression-mode I'd sometimes stare at myself in the mirror and try to convince my self "y-yeah, this is good, this is what I want, some people think I'm handsome and thats what I should aim for, I may not be happy with my looks and body but that's nothing and I should bury the feeling."
>The alternative just seems more likely given everything else.
Not really given the pathetic state of the research. Currently it doesn't really add anything of substance to our understand besides an excuse for people to patholigise others and themselves. Keep in mind that by the same system that agp is a part of "homosexual transexuals" aren't "reel womyn" either, just super effeminate gays too faggy to be accepted as men who lust for straight dick so they're more acceptable as women, I mean sex work was considered a diagnostic positive for fucks sake.
>>6322370
it's survey based m8
I really dont understand how every girl isnt a lesbian. Srsly aside from a few outliers guys are a mistake.
>inb4 buttmad gays
>>6300561
as much as AGP
>>You can't really separate the concept of agp from the original research and its part in the two-group classification without entirely new research from the ground-up.
>That's fair and probably true. I suppose I latched to it because everyone else were going "btw you don't exist :^)"
same reason here
>>6324496
>Srsly aside from a few outliers guys are a mistake.
thanks
>>6322370
> Currently it doesn't really add anything of substance to our understand (sic)
What's the counterpart to a non-lesbian tomboy?
Positing the existence of such a person:
-What are his chances of and resources for understanding himself?
-How is he going to fit in with his peers?
-What examples could he look up to?
-What combination of gender expectations would he end up fulfilling?
tip: AAP runs rampant in tomboys
>>6324496
Baginas r gross :--DDD
>>6324653
No they aren't :<
I feel this pain
>>6324496
>Srsly aside from a few outliers guys are a mistake.
tru. guys don't even like other guys.
they are ugly and mean. straight girls must only like them to get dicked
>>6325444
Money too.
I'm a cis lesbian and I'm fucking tired of people asking if I'm a trans man just because I'm butch. There, I said it.
>>6329149
That has to suck. The world's a dumb place. When I'm God I'll fix this shit. Until then be well.
>>6296017
>tfw you've turned down a cis lesbian
>>6329149
>be mtf
>get mistaken for ftm regularly
What a time to be alive.
>>6329174
>tfw you've broken up with crazy cisles chasers
>>6324628
>tip: AAP runs rampant in tomboys
No it doesn't.
>>6324496
Men ARE attractive. Do you ever leave your house?
