Is there scientific evidence supporting the legitimacy of genderfluidity, bigenderism, non-binaryism, etc? You know, the newfangled trans* stuff that doesn't lead to any surgery, just changes in pronouns and fashion.
>science
*tips fedora*
>>6292431
There is scientific evidence of male brains in female bodies, as well as female brains in male bodies. I've read the reports. Well, actually, just the summaries. The reports themselves are too sophisticated for me.
I'm not going to buy into the other stuff without evidence, though.
>>6292461
>evidence
*strokes neckbeard*
>>6292487
I didn't expect to hear that from /lgbt/.
>>6292489
The non-trans, non-SJW posters care about reality
>>6292410
If anything there's scientific evidence for non-binary genders and little for brainsex. According to many prominent scientists transsexuals are just members of their original sex who adopted the characteristics of another gender as well as some of their biology via hormones. Note that this is NOT a value judgment. The same scientists who wrote this support the rights of transsexuals to transition because ultimately it helps some of them feel better about themselves.
Gender is recognized as being a social construct which has originally emerged out of biological causes. This means that some may choose to adopt it out of psychological causes without a biological explanation in the same ways one might be a conservative or a liberal. As society shifts the traditional gender structures are fractured and new ones are created, just as new social positions are created. There is little basis for the "really a woman inside" narrative.
>>6292461
There is no scientific evidence to suggest that. Stop spreading misinformation.
Im pretty sure there's evidence of bigenderism, I don't know about the rest, and I honestly don't think it matters anyway.
If people feel compelled to identify themselves as a different gender without necessarily feeling the exact same dysphoria a Real Trans person feels, there's still a reason for that. A hypothetical world where people can make that indetification of themselves without feeling weird or ostracized in the eyes of cisfolk or the Real Trans community seems like a fine world to me.
>>6292501
>bigenderism
Literally what
>>6292501
Fucking this. If everyone were just acceptive of everyone else we wouldn't feel pressured to tick one box or another. I can bet that many MTFs would be fine with identifying as men who choose to look and act like women. Nothing's wrong with that.
>>6292506
This was something listed in the OP, I'm not the first to mention it here. I just vaguely remember reading about it well over a year ago, but it wasn't what I was focused on with that post. Literally Google it yourself.
>>6292514
>not a single piece of research on the topic
dropped
>>6292519
Okay.
>>6292519
>research
*sips mountain dew*
>>6292410
No not the fuck at all it's a mental illness I'll call snowflake syndrome
>>6292501
Oh fucking christ how about people just identify as people instead of being like Oooooo I'm a pan-genderfluid-unicorn-fur-sexual like really what's the fucking point? It's mundane and asinine creating nothing but white noise
>>6292582
Yeah, sure. Let's say it does nothing to improve anybody's happiness, including the person making whatever identification. It's also not causing anybody harm, inherently.
So why get angry at these people and make them feel like something they apparently care very much about is weird or inauthentic? By treating them this way you create the problem you want to avoid, which is people being special snowflakes or whatever, while also making a lot of people unhappy for no benefit.
Had to rapidly finish this post so idk if I'm making a complete point
>>6292501
>If people feel compelled to identify themselves as a different gender without necessarily feeling the exact same dysphoria a Real Trans person feels, there's still a reason for that.
And the reason is..?
>A hypothetical world where people can make that indetification of themselves without feeling weird or ostracized in the eyes of cisfolk or the Real Trans community seems like a fine world to me.
Of course I'll feel weird about it if you're doing it for seemingly no reason.
>>6293052
Read up about Ray Blanchard's dichotomy, J. Michael Bailey's work and the citations invoked thereof. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm telling you the truth and you can either take it or leave it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Blanchard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Michael_Bailey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology#Autogynephilia_and_autoandrophilia
Ray's been on the DSM committee as recently as a few years ago.
>>6292410
>hey I'm trans you guys!
>lol totally okay with my body
snowflake bullshit isn't trans. idk why people just let people call themselves trans just because they're andro.
>>6292892
People do things for reasons. Those aren't always good reasons, and the consequences aren't always good, but that's not the case here.
In this situation we can clearly see that something unpleasant is compelling people to identify as whatever. The consequence of that is a more comfortable fit into ones self identity as well as more time spent introspecting and figuring out ones own identity, which is good.
Literally the only thing I'm saying you should do is just be nice even if you don't understand people. You're a person too.
>>6292461
Yeah, im going to need some FUCKING SOURCES on that
>>6292410
no there isnt
its the same as people being otherkin
its just internet autism meme
but note that these individuals are either children who will eventually grow up or just ugly people who crave attention
none of which are our concern.
>>6292487
Gay men and bull-dyke lesbians also share one common trait.
High testosterone levels.
This also controls the lenght of the ring finger.
>>6292497
>Gender is recognized as being a social construct
In gender studies classes where they use the pedophile John Moneys studies
>>6293272
I can't think of any prominent psychologist who disagrees on GENDER being a social construct. The disagreement is primarily about how much of GENDER necessarily stems from SEX. In other words how much of the gender structure in a given society is biological and how much is constructed. Is there anyone who denies that, say, a given article of clothing is only considered feminine due to societal factors and thus accepting a role in which one is "supposed to" wear such clothes is societal?
>>6293072
>blanchard
opionion discarded.
>>6293086
>implying they're okay with their body
I know a lot of nonbinary types with dysphoria.
>>6293072
>unironically quoting Bailey
>a man who threw a fit when gay reparative therapy was banned in California
Blanchard's typology was rejected wholesale during the last DSM revision. The changes followed, almost entirely, what WPATH and Cohen-Kettenis wanted.
>>6293304
I guess you discard the entire DSM too? All of psychology? Blanchard's work is imperfect in the sense that he has failed to account for the experience of individuals who fall outside of his categorization but it is still descriptive of a large population of transsexuals and is the most rigorous explanation available. On the contrary there is very little support for brain sex.
>>6293316
>implying Blanchard's input on the DSMV committee on gender disorders wasn't discarded almost entirely
I read almost every paper published during the process. The current diagnosis integrates none of it and two of the researchers on the committee flat out stated that Blanchard's results were impossible to reproduce.
>>6293309
>re: DSM
Interesting. I'm by no means an expert. Just someone who did some reading. If you could please refer me to some sources I could use to educate myself I'd greatly appreciate it.
The reason I bought into Blanchard's work so far is primarily because I found it most descriptive of my own experience. I'm both aroused by thinking of becoming a woman AND I feel a certain sense of dysphoria. The standard trans narrative kind of tells me I couldn't possibly exist.
>>6293323
Okay. Then I apologize for spreading misinformation. I guess that if you hang out in certain corners of the web it is easy to get things wrong for a long time and not even know it.
>>6293340
http://www.cpath.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/COHEN-KETTENIS.DSM_.pdf
This is one of the big ones and imo the paper that's probably the most relevant since it was one of the main ones arguing for a diagnosis that doesn't imply a trans person is still ill when transition happens.
>>6292727
>identify as a person
>By treating treating them this was you create the problem you want to avoid
I'm in the wrong?
Are people forgetting the real bullshit at hand. It's not the trans thing it's this bullshit
>>6292531
I love you
>>6293404
DIE CIS SCUM DIE
why do you care about other people's problem ? that's none of your business if people like identifying as transgender
>>6293309
>I know a lot of nonbinary types with dysphoria.
yeah? then what is it that they don't like? what is it they want to change? any example please besides some 15yo girl saying "hey i got dysphoria too"
