So is there any proof that being non-binary is a legitimate thing? Brain scans, hormone level studies, etc.? As opposed to just people saying "this is how I feel, here are some other people who feel that way too, therefore our feelings are FACT and our IDENTITY must be respected"? Honest to god, I have like four real-life friends who are completely sold on this shit and have changed their pronouns and everything. None of it makes any sense to me and only one of them speaks, acts, or (aside from short hair) even looks any different from "regular" girls that just don't strongly adhere to gendered social norms like wearing make-up.
MtF and FtM I get, but how can one be XtoNeither when there is no such thing as a neither-male-nor-female human except in rare cases of true intersexualism?
No, there isn't.
It's literally just a fashion trend and a way for pirveleged cis girls to feel like special snowflakes who are omg so oppressed and it's a way for crossdressers to validate taking their fetish public.
I've been trying to understand this shit too.
What the fuck is with all these new identities and labels people keep making up? I can barely understand trans, so what's the deal? How do we stop this train?
>>6197385
Friend anon, I'm trying to make sense of your post but really can't.
>>6197286
>So is there any proof that being non-binary is a legitimate thing?
Yes non binary is a political movement. It doesn't need brain scans because it is a political movement from a social theory.
>>6197385
Then how come other societies have stricter adherence to gender binary than the west? Because you just made shit up is how.
>>6197286
http://www.avitale.com/etiologicalreview.htm
>researchers studying the brains of male and female rats have found evidence that prior to being masculinized, the genetic male brain must first be defeminized,(4-7) a process by which males lose the ability to display female-type behavior.
What if the brain was never defeminized, then was masculinized?
>This leads one to consider the possibility that male hormonal surges must occur not only in sufficient amounts in the developing fetus, but must be timed to take advantage of the short time the brain is open to being defeminized/masculinized, forming a predominantly male gendermap. If there is insufficient androgen, or the surge comes too late, the gendermap may be only partially imprinted as male. These disruptions of hormonal surges may come from a variety of sources, including a disorder in the mother's endocrine system such as a hormone-secreting tumor, common maternal stress, medications or some other toxic substance or adverse event yet to be identified.
>Gender identity, far from being absolute, appears to occur on a continuum, with most people gathered at either end, the rest being somewhere in between. Feelings of discomfort or complete inappropriateness about one's assigned sex do not mean the individual is wrong or ill. It simply means that the assignment made at birth almost universally on the shape of one's genitals can, on occasion, differ from the unseen brain imprint.
>>6197717
These societies came up with third genders as a spot for gender-nonconforming people, trannies, homosexuals and so on - basically an option to escape strict gender roles. There are multiple well-documented examples of this.
>>6197748
No they didn't. Don't even count on primitive cultures that have 5 genders. That bullshit is literally the same thing as spirit animals.
>>6197286
I don't think a non-binary person has to necessarily want to be non-binary. Some examples would be certain intersex people, some intentional/accidental/medically necessitated eunuchs, and people who were retarded and wound up taking some element of HRT despite not being trans, i.e. some femboys and AGP fetishists and such. Sometimes people from these groups and others wind up over time being in a weird situation where their body is physically androgynous or feminized, having traits of both genders but not fully being like either. So in these cases, these people can sometimes begin to identify as something similar to "non-binary" over time, or even call themselves non-binary. I myself fall into this group of people who identified as male but then physically have become androgynous/feminine for reasons, and while I wouldn't call myself non-binary, my physical body basically is, and I could see why people in my situation might want to call themselves non-binary; and many do.
>>6197729
OP here; this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Thanks for posting.
Non binary is a political movement that was originally called post-transsexualism. It's a feminist political movement that promotes not passing and smashing gender roles.
>>6197286
Lel it's just gay people acting gay and trying to be extra super special. It's a term used by attention whores.
>>6197748
Except same sex loving populations weren't necessarily recognized as other genders and to this day there are people who state they are not women they are ___
>>6197717
...you made that shipbuilding because that's not true and there is not a shred of evidence where gender variant peoples were seen utterly and completely as the opposite sex because there was no need for that.
>>6197879
You're reaching because you don't even have thin threads to grasp on this one. Universally all cultures divided into male and female. Except for primitive cults that don't count because they also believe you have a badger or elephant soul.
>>6197748
They only do that because they see the 'third gender' as freaks.
>>6197926
All societies have male and female, most of SEA, Polynesia, subsaharan Africa and North America had atleast one additional gender unlike the West.
>>6197972
>SEA, Polynesia, subsaharan Africa and North America
But those are not the cultures that colonized the rest of the world and led technical development, now, are they? :^)
>>6198030
being better at killing and exploiting others is just a single trait unrelated to being right.
unless you think that homosexuals should just get testosterone injections to fix it.
>>6198035
>being right
It has nothing to do with morality, it's about being more suited to survive as a civilization.
>testosterone injections
We're talking about nonbinary, this is completely unrelated.
>>6198151
Nope, it's actually related. There's a reason why only small and less developed societies break out of the gender binary, unless you think this is some kind of huge coincidence. Two biological sexes are required for human reproduction, that's why they exist. Gender expression merely simplifies the process of finding a mate to create an offspring with. The gender binary makes society more organized and manageable.
>>6198169
You need to learn the difference between correlation and causation.
>>6197286
Not from what I've seen. Burden of proof and all that has come up short.
>>6197774
U femboy?
Does it really fucking matter? I was assigned male at birth, and I go back and forth on which I feel/dress/act like, and fuck your shit if you need more justification than that. If someone demands you explain your shit the best answer is a middle fucking finger. Such whiny bitches on this board. You can dig through studies and find justification for any thing you want to believe in this arena, but what the fuck does it really matter. And who cares if some hipster chick wants to wear a fake mustache and be called Bob? I love me some science, but the current academic research structure favors quick pilot studies over replication and verification, so that's not actually a good place to turn in the first place.
>>6198893
Not even /pol/ tbhh just literally no one respects non-binary people except other non-binary
>>6198783
Yeah lol.
For the record my tits just feel grotesque and they disgust me, even though objectively they look good. I have come to feel like this weird boygirl monster thing over time, but at the same time I do enjoy being cute and smol and stuff. I'd rather be like this than be too masculine.
Why are binary people so invested in making non-binary people feel shitty?
>>6198913
You basically turned yourself intersex
>>6197757
... are you sure?
In Zapotec cultures of Oaxaca (southern Mexico), a muxe is an assigned male at birth individual who dresses and behaves in ways otherwise associated with the female gender; they may be seen as a third gender. Some marry women and have children while others choose men as sexual or romantic partners. According to anthropologist Lynn Stephen, muxe "may do certain kinds of women’s work such as embroidery or decorating home altars, but others do the male work of making jewelry."
Femminielli or femmenielli is a term used to refer to a population of homosexual males with markedly feminine gender expression in traditional Neapolitan culture. It may be hard to define this term within modern Western notions of "gay men" versus "trans women" since both these categories overlap to a degree in the case of femminielli. It has been noted that this term is not derogatory and does not carry stigma, instead femminielli are traditionally believed to bring luck.
In Pakistan and Bangladesh, the hijras are officially recognized as third gender by the government,being neither completely male nor female. In India also, transgender people have been given the status of Third gender and are protected as per the law despite the social ostracism.
Mahu is the Hawaiian term for people who embody both male and female spirit.
Khanith or Khaneeth is a vernacular Arabic term used in Oman and the Arabian Peninsula and denotes the gender role ascribed to males who function sexually, and in some ways socially, as women. The word is closely related to the Arabic word Mukhannath (literally "effeminate") referring to individuals with an effeminate nature.
An Enaree or Enarei was a Scythian shaman; described as effeminate or androgynous. Scythian shamanism involved religious ecstasy through the use of entheogens; they had no temples and worshipped the forces of nature.
Fa'afafine are a third-gender people of Samoa and the Samoan diaspora.
>>6199027
Most of your examples don't include any variance of binary in gender roles that hasn't always been present. Currently most MtF do pink collar jobs that doesn't mean they are non binary or a third gender. Most of the examples are assuming the opposite gender and the black and white of the photos is telling.
Different genders with spiritual symbolism is the same fucking thing as animal spirits.
>>6199027
All primitive cultures.
>>6198904
>>6198893
Sorry I'm not /pol/ but apparently I know more about the history of your movement than you do. Maybe you should educate yourself on the history of the non-binary movement and the feminist academic influences on it. If you do not know these things then you are just shooting in the dark and part of a political agenda you don't know about.
>>6197385
did you ever consider that those traditional nonbinary were actually trans and society just made up this third category so they'd fit in? hrt didn't exist so actually transitioning was a lot harder, best you could was castration
>>6198935
That's pretty much how it feels. It's a bit weird to be honest, and it's put me in some awkward and strange social situations and such. I don't really identify with guys or girls anymore, if that makes sense, and neither group tends to include me among its members. Like if they're going around asking for guys to help with lifting heavy shit, they won't even consider me or look at me when they're saying it.
>>6197729
>42 subjects
>scientifically acurate m'kay
It's as dumb as the study that boiled down to white matter determining the gender of your brain using 99 subjects. For fuck's sake, who actually considers this solid proof of gender being burned into your brain?
>>6197286
I honestly don't give a shit what people identify themselves as, so long as they keep their non-binary hands off of the already stringent legal standards of my transition and my medical treatment/coverage.
If some feminist non-binary person busts into my business crying about how I shouldn't have an "f" on my I.D. or how hormones and surgery are patriarchal and evil, they can fuck right the fuck off to tumblrville and take their rainbow socks with them.
>>6199301
Dude, they're fucking rats ....
>>6197286
No, they just want to feel special and different.
>>6198925
Why are non-binary people so invested in making binary people rearrange language and culture to suit their snowflake feelings?
>>6199069
> primitive culture
> manages mars mission on first try
Pick one. India is one of the few countries that sent an aircraft into the Mars orbit. They're also the first country that managed the first time they tried, and they managed on a fraction of the budget that everyone else had.
>>6199048
You can manage to squeeze them into the binary because your concept of gender IS binary, and your brain will interpret anything using that binary template. But again, that way of looking at gender is cultural and depending on where you grew up your concept of gender may differ.
>>6197286
>Brain scans, hormone level studies, etc.?
Not really, there are barely any such studies on binary gender dysphoria yet alone the nonbinary kind. There are some studies including nonbinary people specifically, but they're always focused on symptoms and the like
To study their brains you need money and nobody cares enough to pay
The main thing that matters in clinical practice is seeing if we should let them transition the same way we do with binary trans or if they actually have higher rates of regret (when allowed to do what they want rather than forced into binary transition of course), brain scans don't really help at this point
>MtF and FtM I get, but how can one be XtoNeither when there is no such thing as a neither-male-nor-female human except in rare cases of true intersexualism?
You're assuming if non-binary transsexualism exists it must have the exact same etiology as MtF and FTM versions which is not necessarily true
You're also assuming the causes of regular transsexualism literally boil down to "brain of the opposite sex" which also isn't necessarily true (it's a very simplified version of what studies suggest)
>>6197688
They're talking about hijras and the like
What I think they's essentially saying, that for a gender dysphoric person in the past, most cultures had some inbetween category and they usually identified as rather than the opposite sex, while claiming to be and trying to convince people you are the opposite sex is more of a western/modern narrative (for example the same person that today claims they are actually female and just have a male body in a different culture and time would probably just call themselves a hijra rather than try to convince other people they are a regular woman like we do in western societies)
Of course that's just a social category and a way to label your feelings, in their own head they could see themselves as anything for all we know
