Why does there seem to be more transexuals now than in the past? I'de like to hear from the mtfs on this board. Is it from bpa and chemical warfare like /pol/ claims? Is it a mental illness? Is it a "grass is greener" scenario? Is it related to childhood drama? I would love to hear some individuals thoughts on this.
they used to be bunched together with gays and the media payed no attention, Stonewall had a good number of transexuals and there historical examples through history that suggest that it always was a thing but it never got mainstream attention.
1. I think there are less than what it seems due to a complete fixation of media and politics on the issue right now.
2. More accepted. In the 70s-00s people literally feared for their life to be transgender. People still do, but at least in some areas its accepted and tolerated. Of course as the cultural climate becomes more tolerant you will see more transgender people because they are not forced to live in a closet.
3. Porn. I think a subset of the transgender population are porn conditioned fetishists. Disgusting.
>>6153419
There arn't that many more. The Stonewall riots that lead to the LGBT movement prominently involved 3 or 4 trannies as leader figures? They're all dead now sure but they were still there. The access to health care has gotten better and finally after 50 odd years of struggle by activists they started to get more rights.
There are those that bandwagon but they're not the kind that authentically and socially transition.
>>6153459
I can see porn being a major reason. When i was a kid watching porn wasn't that widespread. But now I don't know a single person that doesn't watch hardcore gangbang or shit like that.
>>6153459
>>6153419
Has it occurred to you that:
>the internet has allowed the spread of massive amounts of information and communication, even in rural areas, allowing trans people who don't know they are to talk to people who've been in their shoes?
>society has become less religious and more accepting, or at least violent, so now more feel safe enough to come out?
>you have never looked up historical trans people?
>societies influenced by Christianity have covered up their existence or even merely forgotten about them?
>some people actually pass, so there's a sense of hope for those who were previously unsure?
>there's greater ease in acquiring medical treatment than before?
>>6153486
>>6153459
What causes people to want to be women over men though? Were there experience that you've had during your youth that might have influenced this decision? Is it possible that it is a form of egocentricism, and that people wish to be admired like women are? I was hoping for some personal thoughts on this that might be deeper than the "I've always felt like a woman" response.
>>6153419
Its because porn has warped the minds of young people. The woman is always the focus of desire, and men will do anything to please her. The challenges for men have become higher while those for women have become less.
Soon the young males start feeling more at ease as women, being desired as women, looking like beautiful women. Also contamination gives water pseudoestrogens that make men more effeminate.
This info is of course is someone's fantasy and not based on science.
Ok?
>>6153540
No. It's just the truth. There was nothing that stands out in my childhood. I started having dreams from the perspective of a girls body when I was young. I've just always felt this way. I can't control it, it's who I am. I don't want to control it anymore. I am so much better off in every single way since I've been transitioning.
Even something as simple as seeing my silhouette now just fills me with a sense of warmth and comfort. It just feels right.
>>6153540
it varies from case to case, there are tendencies but also contradictions.
there are a lot of born females turned males, but I'm assuming you have a tacit idea that wanting to be a man is logical and not the other way around.
>>6153546
you need to explain why it hits only 0.2% of the population and not everyone since everyon watches porn
>>6153521
Not really. I was trying to understand the psychology behind it. I imagine for someone to become a transgender, first they must for an idea in there head of what a male is, and what a female is. Somewhere along the line of creating an identity for oneself, they decide that they either are not a male, or dont want to be a male for various personal choices mostly concerned with style and sexual desires. So would a homosexual 'bottom' male be any different that a transgender female? I believe i heard in the roman empire, older men held the position of dominants, while the women and young boys would become sexually submissive to them. Is this form of programming innate in the human mind?
>>6153540
>What causes people to want to be women over men though?
Genetics
>Were there experience that you've had during your youth that might have influenced this decision?
I don't know but I have had what is known as agp since I was 3-4 years old so what the other >>6153459 anon said about porn being a reason is wrong
>Is it possible that it is a form of egocentricism, and that people wish to be admired like women are?
not really because a man can be admired too and the way that men and women are admired is quite different so you'll need an individual that already identifies with archetypes that are traditionally associated with the opposite sex.
>>6153562
What bothers me about your response is how much this one aspect about yourself seems to impact your life. What kind of hobbies do you have? Do you read at all? If so, what kind of books? What media do you consume? What kind of job do you work and what kind of things do you think of and daydream about throughout the day?
>>6153574
>first they must for an idea in there head of what a male is, and what a female is.
it is done when we are babies, this is a very studied topic
>So would a homosexual 'bottom' male be any different that a transgender female?
yes, it's a difference in their identities and not in their particular actions.
>I believe i heard in the roman empire, older men held the position of dominants, while the women and young boys would become sexually submissive to them.
you either heard wrong or heard something pretty idiotic
>>6153606
you shouldn't post personal information on 4chan.
>>6153574
That is a very different question from whether there are more trans people now than before.
>>6153563
>but I'm assuming you have a tacit idea that wanting to be a man is logical and not the other way around
No. I believe that wanting to appear feminine or masculine is a stylistic choice shaped by experience that one's had in life (and in a small part genetics). I remember going though a bit of an emo phase myself because i thought appearing fem was more attractive. Im sorry if that way i word my thoughts is hard to understand or offensive.
>>6153540
You should ask that on the mtfg thread. They have gay men there that transitioned and went into shemale porn and became sex workers. They all praise that line of work very highly as a status symbol.
>>6153540
okay, so im gonna bite the bullet and assume this is genuine ignorance and not trolling.
it is not something we are choosing to do. it is a literal neurological condition. i am wired differently than you are. there was no point in my life where i felt like a boy, only ignorance of what gender even was. at 13, i actually learned the differences between men and women, and that's when i found out something was wrong. after many years of severe anxiety, depression, and repression, i realized it wasn't going away, and took steps to fix it.
i knew from a very young age that i wasnt like other boys, always got along with girls better, and didnt understand at all why bathrooms and gendered groups were split up the way they were.
there seems to be more of us, because we have more exposure, the media needs a new monster to demonize, and there is more access to/information about treatment.
>>6153621
>it is done when we are babies, this is a very studied topic
Then what do you identify as a female and a male? Is the only difference the bodies? Or do they have different mental blueprints deciding on how they think? Could the differences in men and women be determined by social conditioning?
>>6153712
i mean, can you explain to me then, what i was feeling when i was very, very young and had no concept of gender at all? was i just another fetishistic pervert, at like 6 years old?
>>6153419
Or maybe the answer is the simplest, OP, you autistic mess.
Society is becoming more tolerant and more people are just now coming out. The number of transsexuals would have been the same. Only the number of those in the open has increased.
If you ever left your cramped dingy apartment you rent then you would experience more of the real world.
>>6153707
you define woman as your mother and man as your dad, although it changes through time for what society shows you and you can identify your tendencies as an adult if you dedicate enough time to it.
So it's modeled mainly by your childhood, constantly through society and eventually by you.
>>6153683
Not trolling buddy. You believe this to be a neurological condition. Im no Neurologist, but I understand the basics. I understand that the relativistic structure of the brain is determined early on by your genetic makeup. There were even experiments done that have shown that men around the age of 20 and older act more like their fathers regardless of whether or not they have had ever met them. So i can assume that the genetic structure continues to influence the mind beyond just the stages in which it is formed during the early years of ones life. But it would be stupid to ignore the ways that consuming different foods and forms of stimulation impact your mind.
>>6153712
>Sticking your head in the sand
>bringing up the results of multiple different studies
>Not sticking your head in the sand
>bringing stuff from your butt
great thread, kiddo.
>>6153736
No I can't because I can't read mind and I have no way of telling whether you're lying or not. I don't make unfounded conclusions like other people do. I admit the brain science is all good, until you actually sit down and get to know a few other transgirls around here. You spend some time listening to the things they talk about every day and the excuses they make. Then you're faced with a choice of intellectual dishonesty or becoming ostracized for speaking about it.
>>6153745
Wow, straight to the insults. Im sorry. For the record, I don't live in an Apartment, and see plenty of the outside. I just bought a couple of acres of land for 10,000 (cash) and about to build a house on it. I came hear to learn more about how people think, because that is what i enjoy the most. I believe the first mistake everyone makes when entering a social situation is assuming that their ideas are right and everyone else is wrong. I hope to come across some information or a new perspective that will change my mind. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. Im not here to change your mind, your here to change mind.
>>6153752
>You believe this to be a neurological condition
kek, that's not how it works. there is evidence of it being a neurological condition, then you believe chemicals could cause it just because it could.
>>6153771
What do they talk about
>>6153758
Im op. Not that guy. You shouldn't expect the worst in people. That kind of thinking breeds ignorance.
>>6153783
Go to their thread and watch it for a week.
>>6153771
Most of them aren't actually diagnosed properly so /mtfg/ doesn't count as an example of real transgender.
>>6153771
>oh no im being ostracized from a bunch of mentally ill trannies
your armchair doctoring is bad, stop
>>6153752
>i'm no scientist, but this global warming thing sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me! i mean it SNOWED yesterday...
lol. so my dad is trans now? idgi. are you sure you know what you're talking about? because it feels like you don't.
>>6153780
>straight for the insults
you got a dozen very good responses and chose to ignore all of them and reply with the same inane crap we hear all the time. learn or go away.
>>6153782
Im going to ask you to clarify, because I assume your a new person and the not the person i was responding to. The person I was responding to said that they believe it to be a neurological condition. Im guessing you don't?
>>6153758
There are always hons like you hovering around threads to attack anything that paints a different story. It proves they're right about you.
>>6153804
Your entire post is inane crap.
>>6153819
no ur faec is inane crap!!!1
>>6153807
There is neurological evidence, it's weak but it's an existing theory waiting to be proven or disproven. The scientific process is applied to analyze solid evidence.
Saying that something could affect it is pretty much the same as saying god could. It's a belief supported on unrelated evidence tied through a logical link that can't be proven or disproven.
>>6153804
>you got a dozen very good responses and chose to ignore all of them and reply with the same inane crap we hear all the time. learn or go away.
Nigga what???
Im pretty sure ive responded to every comment in this thread beside this guys >>6153771 (I'de use a trip code, but it is to much work). So far i've head a couple of theories about neurological differences and what not. Please point me to what you believe. Im not mad at you or anything.
>>6153804
>because it feels like you don't
>feels
wut
>>6153804
Your entire argument rests on one thing. Can you prove right now that every single transgender person has sex exclusive brain structures of the opposite sex? This is a very simple yes or no question.
>>6153827
So your saying that the best forms of evidence we have shows that it is most likely tied to our neurological makeup? I guess that makes sense. Thanks.
>It's a belief supported on unrelated evidence tied through a logical link that can't be proven or disproven.
I assume this statement is referring to me asking whether or not experiences can influence your mind on your gender?
If i sound stupid for asking you to clarify, then its only because im trying not to misinterpret any information. I believe it is important to know exactly what someone is talking about, or else you could just reshape the concept in your own head to support your own pre-existing theories.
>>6153850
Not that person, but to believe that sex exclusive brain structures are even a thing sounds pretty stupid to me. By trying to tie that anon into a yes and no question, your controlling the argument and restricting your acceptable form of responses. In your mind, if they answer in any way in which is outside of the rules in which you placed, then their answer is invalidated. This is a form of close-mindedness and social "form" control in psychology. You should try and thing a little deeper on this subject.
>>6153850
i've seen this posted here a bunch of times. also >>6153916
>>6153834
you speak of having an open mind, but you're not really listening at all, and it shows. we've answered all of your questions, but it seems like every follow up from you is trying to bait us into giving the 'wrong' answer. maybe im misreading the situation, but it happens a lot here (and irl), so you'll have to forgive me.
also,
>feels
don't you fucking semantic me, what the hell. you know exactly what is meant by that statement.
>>6153606
Yes. My life is filled with passion. I am a professional musician. I have traveled the world. I have a very rich life with many interests.
I just also happen to be transgender. It's a very small part of my life despite what you implied. It's a powerful feeling but it's not a dominant aspect of my life.
Its funny how /pol/ hates jews because acording to them they're so shady and play dirty but they end up using those same tactics "hey guys :) I'm so friendly please explain this to me I swear I come here only with the best intentions :)))))))"
>>6154007
JIDF GET OUT REE
>>6153883
>I assume this statement is referring to me asking whether or not experiences can influence your mind on your gender?
I was a bit more irked about the external chemicals approach. I also want to make clear that maybe in 20, 50 or 100 years the theories will change, butwhatever new vision they have will come from formal experimentation more than throwing ideas to a wall. A lot of things could be, a lot of treatments have come from very bizarre theories with little to no evidence like increasing the testosterone in the body to make the subject more of a man. It's a mistake thinking that you can have a solid aproach from a very limited perspective, even more when you don't have serious information gathered.
>>6153916
you took a lot of time to answer to some that sounded like a shitty troll.
>>6154037
>limited perspective
elaborate
>>6153972
Maybe im just not satisfied.
for the record, >>6153916 >>6153834 , these are both me, op.
I said
>feels
because i thought it was funny. It made me smile. I think it is important to laugh sometimes.
>don't you fucking semantic me
lol
But thanks to responding one last time. Im sorry if i sounded like i was trying to shoot down these explanations. I just need to thoroughly probe them for any potential holes and weaknesses. The point of a true argument is come to a conclusion in which is the most logical and make the most sense. But i can tell that certain subjects cant really be thought of in logical ways and that this is one in which feeling matter more that trying to quantify. From the info ya'll provided i can conclude that It comes down to a difference in desires and Neurological makeup. For the record i myself find feminine things much for fun, and would even consider being a girl over a guy simply because i hate masculine features. But I don't think the technology is there yet, and I realize that it would hold me back in life. If your still not satisfied with the conclusion i've come to, please tell me where i am wrong.
>>6153606
cont: >>6154001
And yeah, I read a tremendous amount. I am a scholar of music history and theory. I've written two books. I don't consume a lot of commercial media. Occasional TV series but mostly music. No vidya.
I am self employed and I compose music/teach for a living. I don't really day dream much.
I'm also not a depressed suicidal nut case like most of the trannies on here. I see each life as a lone candle in a vast sea of darkness. Our flames are constantly burning out. You bet I am going to make this only life of mine be the absolute best. For me, that meant transitioning.
>>6154007
Im not from pol and i probably have jewish (or black) ancestors. Im sorry you feel this way.
>>6153916
Their thesis is already restricted to structures that cause transgenderism in everyone. They have restricted it themselves and the onus is on them to prove that this is always the case without alternative explanations. Of course they can't prove that because they're not telepathic neurologists.
This is the logic that governs science and it isn't about close-mindedness and social control in psychology.
>>6153972
That's not even your own brain. You don't even know who's brain that is. You can't extrapolate it to the entire population of everyone that takes hormones. It was a yes or no question so I assume you default that logically you cannot prove it. You therefore have to concede there could also be environmental social factors that lead people to transition. The way that you and your friends are trying to argue is that you have unequivocal proof of a universal explanation. The point is that's not the case.
>>6154071
think about your opinions on trans people. now just take the word trans, and substitute in any human feeling or emotion or experience instead. then ask me again to try to explain it to you.
>>6154037
you took a lot of time to answer to some that sounded like a shitty troll.
I've been trying to assume the best of people.
>It's a mistake thinking that you can have a solid aproach from a very limited perspective, even more when you don't have serious information gathered
Your probably right. I came here to ask this because im tired and don't feel like trying to search google for answers, because thats pretty much the only source of info i have at my disposal. I think that transgender people would be able to lend me more insight than any one else. Plus, your right about the limited perspective. I haven't done any traveling and am still rather young, male. But the internet allows me to meet people like you who have more experience and insight (I assume).
>>6154064
Your response is exactly what i was hoping for. I know i kinda baited you, but I am glad i did. I am assuming your two books are based on music history? I would like to read them. I've been reading alot of economic literature (by recommendation) and should probably expand my focus.
>>6154083
I am trans but you are still wrong. You are objectively and scientifically wrong promoting an old fallacy very aggressively. I would not want to associate with that movement which promotes scientific ignorance over better research and broader inquiry.
>>6154083
Not that anon, but If i did substitute, lets say anger, in place of trans - his theory would be reinforced.
For example, angry people have had distasteful experiences that have led to their anger. Their are cases in which certain people are more prone to anger, or are always angry, but every person has the potential to be angry, or sad, or happy.
>>6153419
Why do you assume that it's just one of those factors?
I think it's everything contributing to it together
>Increased acceptance and visibility
>More resources and treatment
>Online communities where people connect
>Gender roles being skewed by feminism
>More variety, fetish targeted porn
Whatever other ones, I don't know why you'd assume it's just one thing
>>6154163
Your right. I've learned alot about how differnt trans peps think in this thread.
>>6154131
My books are on music cognition and music theory.
But yes, being transgender is a state of being. It's not something I spend my time constantly thinking about. I'm pretty happy with my body and who I am. I can't really complain about anything. I finally look how I have always wanted and I am living my dream of music.
I think the biggest thing that makes trannies have such a negative appearance/stereotype is the fact 70% of us don't have a support network at all.
I'm fortunate that my father is incredibly supportive of me. My whole family and community too. Honestly if you look at self harm statistics and mental health rates of transgender people with support networks its at the same level of the normal population, if not lower. Transpeople often do so terrible because society fucking hates us.
Ask any therapist or psychologist. Transgender patients with support networks are completely a separate thing than those who don't.
>>6154184
I've spoken to alot of people at my job and asked about what they think of things like transgender people, and they usually always think about o' CJ, and talk about how disgusting it is. But what ive learned about how these people act socially, its that they are still very mentally immature. They go through life by maintaining an appearance. They will tell you what they want you to hear about themselves, no what they actually think. I know atleast one of these guys are gay, but they still make the gay jokes and tranny jokes. Its not because they hate you, its becouse your just a topic of discussion to them. Another way of socially interacting while creating a masculine image of themselves (no guy would ever admit he likes sex with guys at his workplace). It's all about maintaining an image. The only people ive found that actually hate trans are women. The guys pretend to, but the girls actually hate them. These girls also think no guy should ever have long hair ect.
>>6154215
>(no guy would ever admit he likes sex with guys at his workplace)
lol. there are tons of masc openly gay guys here. that seems like your own experience, and not an objective thing.
>The only people ive found that actually hate trans are women. The guys pretend to, but the girls actually hate them. These girls also think no guy should ever have long hair ect.
this is just blatantly, outright wrong.
>>6154230
Im just talking from experience. This girl literally started talking shit about bon jovi because his hair was long and said no man should ever have long hair. She was British. I live in central florida so i don't know if this is normal elsewhere. I've still yet to meet any guys my age that have said they were gay, but i guess they keep to themselves. Plus im not really looking.
>>6154188
Nobody transitions because they had neurological evidence about their own brain. That evidence doesn't exist. If you're rigorously diagnosed then at best they can give you a good guess and make sure you're not just insane. There are many trans people out there with alternative narratives and contradictory behavior to a point they're easily observed societal trends.
Transgender is a mental illness. XY is a male. XX is a female. Chopping the dick off a male and jerry-rigging a hole doesn't make a male into a female; and plugging up a vagina and strapping a makeshift flesh tube right above it doesn't make a female a male.
Yes, the boost in transexual representation is liberal media social engineering; and it's the same shit we saw with homosexuality in the same way back in the late 90s/early 2000s. If you were to judge which percentage of the population was homosexual based on media representation, you'd assume that 50%-60% of the population was homosexual. Expect to see the same horseshit with transgenders now; and don't be surprised when pedophilia or beastiality crops up a bit further down the pipeline.
This is the progressive dream of "tolerance and inclusion". The hypocrisy being, of course, that if you call a spade a spade, you're ostracized until your views turn you into a pariah.
This is how the west dies, by turning the perverse and deviant decisions made by the mentally ill into "bravery" instead of calling it insanity.
>>6154281
Oh look. It's this meme again.
:^)
good one
>>6154281
Op here, and i gather your a little wrong. XY and XX exist. But not all cultures have just two genders. I think the answer is that gender is a social construct. Think about it, alot of the things that girls do today were considered masculane a long time ago. Even alot of styles such as makeup and high heels were thought to be for men at one point. I don't think there is enough evidence to conclude anything. I think i heard a quote once that "If the human brain was easy enough to understand, it wouldn't be smart enough to understand itself". I think that thinking like yours stagnates our society.
>>6154281
>XY is a male. XX is a female.
This is incorrect. In biology the sex is determined by the size of the gametes not the chromosomes.
>>6154287
It's not a meme. Trans is a mental illnesss; and the liberal media is manipulating the populous view on trans just as they did with homosexuals.
>>6154321
I used to care enough to debate people like you but I just don't give a fuck anymore.
Here's the short of it..
1. Trannies have opposite sexually dimorphic brain structures.
2. Trannies brains appear exactly how we would expect them to in lieu of their claims.
3. Trannies, empirically, do better after they start transitioning (I know what your memes say).
4. Trannies or gender variant people have existed as long as humanity has.
So basically, you're a dumb nigger that doesn't understand how to read empirical evidence. Instead, you just cry about your morals and traditions, which are subjective non-empirically rooted feels.
>>6154312
>gender is a social construct
Now THAT is bullshit. All behaviors fall on a spectrum between the masculine and feminine; with masculine behaviors being those induced by more testosterone and feminine behaviors being those induced by more estrogen. Both are objectively measurable.
There are only two genders which consists of the two sexes: male and female. Sexuality is variable, but not sex or gender.
You're conflating things like fashion and hobby choices with inherent emotional response. The habitual behaviors observable between the genders is not socially constructed.
>>6154317
Nice meme. XY grows a dick a balls. XX grows a vagina and ovaries.
>>6154343
None of what you said disproves that trans is a mental illness. I agree that most people with a mental illness do better after specialized treatment; you silly faggot.
>>6154352
I think being transgender is a physical mutation that manifests itself as mental discomfort.
Sort of like baldness is a physical condition but those who suffer from it often face mental issues. There are many men that when they experience baldness go through massive emotional havoc and sink into depression. If you could treat baldness their mental issues would go away.
>>6154346
>Nice meme. XY grows a dick a balls. XX grows a vagina and ovaries.
The information the cells contain is irrelevant for classification and is a subject of genetics. Biological sex is always decided by the size of the gametes and nothing else.
>>6154366
Hey, fucking retard, males produce smaller gametes and females produce larger gametes. That's what the sperm and the egg are.
Has no one yet suggested that its because medical transition has become easier?
Hrt used to be just estrogen and mtfs had to avoid getting erections because the rush of testosterone would screw everything up. Srs vaginas used to be barely functional holes.
>>6154390
Didn't I say that sex is determined by the size of the gametes? Thank you for educating yourself.
>>6154428
You have it backwards, you stupid fuck. Sex determines the size of the gametes. Males produce smaller gametes called sperm and females produce a larger gamete called an egg.
>>6153606
>trannies are only trannies because they have no interests
this is such a stupid meme
here's my reading list from when i was 13 to 17
>>6154438
No, trust me that you have it backwards because you just learned about this five minutes ago. The size of the gametes determines the sex of the animal. A female produces the larger and the male the smaller. The animal can reproduce without x and y chromosomes obviously so the only thing that determines their sex is the size of their gametes. An animal that can produce both is considered hermaphroditic, they are both sexes. An animal that reproduces without fusion or gametes is asexual. You're welcome lets hope you don't fail highschool.
>>6154470
You're a stupid fuck.
You're saying exactly what I'm saying: males produce the smaller gamete while females produce the larger. XY and XX determines which gametes are produced and therefore determines the sex of the individual.
If you're trying to insinuate that an XY male can produce larger female gametes, then you've gone way off the reservation.
>>6154433
>"You see people walking around they say oh I am here for the uh ... g l b t thing? You say no no no mother fucker T comes first."-Miss Major ( last surviving "drag queen" at Stonewall)
>>6154495
No you're wrong again. The classification is that females produce the larger gametes. The chromosomes are irrelevant. We're getting there slowly but surely and you might understand it soon enough.
>>6154512
And what determines male or female genetalia, the organ which will produce those gametes? The fucking chromosomes, you fucking retard.
>>6154520
>And what determines male or female genetalia, the organ which will produce those gametes?
Hormones do that job.
>>6154533
And what determines the dominating hormone release during development? The chromosomes do. You mental gymnastics are showing.
Short of finding a man whose dick trickles out eggs and a woman whose twat spurts out a jet of sperm, you cannot escape that chromosomes determines gamete production and not the other way around.
>>6154550
This is just baby science that everybody on the board should already know. There are no mental gymnastics here. Chromosomes aren't necessary in all gametes for sexual reproduction.
>Short of finding a man whose dick trickles out eggs and a woman whose twat spurts out a jet of sperm
Phallic sex organs are irrelevant in nature. A female with a phallic organ produces larger gametes. The size of the gametes is all that matters.
>>6154563
Are we still talking about humans? In humans, the chromosomes determine the hormone release which determines which gametes are produced during sexual maturation.
>>6154587
No we're talking about biology like we were from the start. Biologically the size of the gametes determines sex and the chromosomes as well as the apparent organ differences are irrelevant. There is never going to be an instance in biology where they do not know the classification of male and female based on unknown chromosomes. Do you know why that is? Because sex is determined by the size of the gametes.
>>6154598
You dumb motherfucker, I'm talking about humans. Human biology isn't a mystery. The chromosomes determine sex and sex organs which determines gametes. It all originates from the chromosomes. This is true of most animals, especially among mammals.
You're delving off into shit used to observe reproduction in plants and insects and other less complex species. The thread topic is about transexuals; so yeah, you're way off the fucking reservation.
It seems to me that you don't have a relevant argument, and so you created your own based on reproductive information that is irrelevant to humans as a species. Or are you suggesting that trans aren't human?
>>6154612
Humans follow the same rules as the rest of nature which is described and categorized by biology. Unlike religion science does not create a special category for humans. The methods and terminology are universal. In humans like all other animals the size of the gametes determine biological sex.
>>6154639
And in humans, male gametes always coincide with male chromosomes and male genitalia and female gametes always coincide with female gametes and female genitalia.
In humans, the chromosomes are determined first, followed by hormones during natal development, and then lastly by gamete production during sexual maturity.
Good job, you're a fucking retard.
The Internet has just made it easier to be open about these things. Take off the tinfoil hat.
BPA might have some to do since some niggers theorize Transsexualism comes from excess estrogen at pregnancy that influences fetal development of the brain.
>>6154672
The chromosomes in the gametes is entirely irrelevant for determining biological sex. The size of the gametes is all that matters. You can attempt to attach some extra meaning to the processes or to development but the biological sex is fixed to the size of the gametes. You have been influenced by the social meme just like everyone else that XX is female and XY is male when this is actually an arbitrary relationship between the two concepts. If you wish to discuss biological sex then you are incorrect in assuming chromosomes and not the size of gametes determine sex.
>>6154706
You dense fuck. You have it backwards.
This is how human biological development works for determining sex:
chromosomes > hormones > gametes
They develop in that order. You can't suddenly put gametes first when the gametes produced is dependent upon the hormones released during natal development, which is determined by the chromosomes. You pseudo-intellectual waste of space.
>>6154723
xe is just baiting you I'm pretty sure family
>>6154723
We're not discussing biological development. That is a different subject. We're discussing biological sex, which you brought up and assumed was determined by chromosomes, which it isn't. That means the definition of what a sex is in biology. This is determined by the size of the gametes you produce.
>>6154728
This is just simple biology facts for the uneducated.
>Transgender is a mental illness. XY is a male. XX is a female. Chopping the dick off a male and jerry-rigging a hole doesn't make a male into a female; and plugging up a vagina and strapping a makeshift flesh tube right above it doesn't make a female a male.
This is what is being argued about by the angry /pol/ anon and it's factually incorrect. He just doesn't want to admit it at all costs because he doesn't have a better troll copy pasta.
>>6154755
What part of XY is male and XX is female is incorrect as it pertains to humans?
>>6154765
You were already told 10 times.
>>6154765
Biological sex is determined by the size of the gametes.
>>6154781
which is determined by chromosome combination
>>6154788
No it isn't. I'm afraid to say you are mixing up different things.
>>6154792
what is the size of the gametes determined by then ?
>>6154802
That is irrelevant for biological sex but you are welcome to waste your time with chicken or the egg philosophizing.
>>6154812
nice job avoiding the question
>>6154819
But it is irrelevant obviously, it's an equivalency relationship between biological sex and size of gametes. Twisting and turning, pulling and tugging, the definition doesn't change. Looping through endless hypothetical speculative cycles wont change the definition either.
>>6154833
Are post SRS trannies Asexual then? Or what are they, since they don't even have gametes anymore. Or are they male since they used to have smaller gametes? What's the point of this discussion i don't get it.
>>6154828
well I'm also a tranny and I think it's pointless to pretend that we aren't biologically male, still that shouldn't be in the way of us being allowed to live in a way that makes us happy and deal with the dysphoria
>>6153419
Because people are realizing it's possible.
>>6154844
If you can't produce gametes then you are kind of sexless yes. There are animals that reproduce asexually, and proliferation of dna through lateral gene transfer also happens. You could make the interesting point that research into merging same sex parent dna into gametes is a method of alternative gene transfer. This might be a concern in determining the legal father and mother that rely on biological definitions. If your genes are in a male gamete then you are the father and if it is in a female gamete you are presumably the mother.
>>6154844
>What's the point of this discussion i don't get it.
Arguing about muh chromosomes is pointless.
>>6153419
Victimhood is idolized now, and a lot of people are still uncomfortable with transsexuals
>>6153458
>historical examples trough history
:3
>>6154846
Are you full-time? And how long?
>>6153540
Fuck it, feed the trolls!
I have not 'always felt like a woman'. For a start, when i was younger i'd say felt like a girl not a fully grown woman. Bad jokes aside, I 'd say it's more 'i didn't feel like i was a boy' than 'i did feel like i was a girl'. Mostly, i was confused that everyone thought i was a boy and wondered how girls were different to me. About the time puberty really properly kicked in (around 12) i just started feeling awful. No idea why at the time, everything about the way my body was developing just felt wrong. Around this time, looking back i guessed pretty good with being 12, was the 5th series of 'big brother', which was eventually won by Nadia Almada, a trans woman. Now, i didn't watch big brother, but plenty of people in my year did, so now i knew that 'sex changes' were a thing. All i could think of at night from that point was how i would one day fake my own death, go get a 'sex change' (as if this was something that could be done that quickly) and live as a woman. Because it was that shameful I would rather have my family think i was dead than transgender.
Essentially my point is i don't 'want' to be a woman 'over' being a man. For a start, less street harrassment as a dude. I just am.
Fortunately there was no need for death faking, they just pretend i'm dead anyway.
That's a lie. I'm lucky enough that my family, while still 5 years after telling them don't quite get it, did not kick me out on my ass.
>>6154874
>If you can't produce gametes then you are kind of sexless yes.
can you please refer me to the scientific literature that states that when a man or woman has been sterilized that they are no longer considered male or female?
>>6153419
>Is it a "grass is greener" scenario
the grass is not greener on the other side, if the other side means you are a tranny
>>6155035
Thanks. I just woke up and see that alot of arguing was happening about gametes or something happened in my sleep. It's interesting that you say you wondered what was different between you and girls were when you was young. I cant recollect I've ever had such thoughts, but i do remember being taught alot by my older brother and I took his word as truth. I remember loving girls and being around them when i was younger. I always thought that I was different than them because I was told so. Thank you for your information.
>Essentially my point is i don't 'want' to be a woman 'over' being a man. For a start, less street harrassment as a dude. I just am.
and here you are saying that it isn't about what you want, because the obvious repercussions of seclusion and hatred towards you by society wouldn't make it worth it, but its something that you just can't help? I understand that.
There are not more Transsexuals but there is more visiablity, acceptace, and for some it is a fad which makes the number of real Trans people higher.
Also Jenner isnt trans. Just a Puppet made by the republican party to get the gay vote
>>6153419
There's not really any more or less, it's just that no one really talked about being transgender or gay or anything like that back then.
HRT was very hard to get and expensive.
Laser didnt became a thing until early 2000s.
both became cheaper and more avaliable in the last few years
pre-2010s f you were young and trans you had to repress and act like a flamboyant gay guy
>>6155426
lol you sound worse than /pol/
>>6155352
>but i do remember being taught alot by my older brother and I took his word as truth. [...] I always thought that I was different than them because I was told so.
(I'm not that anon)
When I was 10 I told my older brother that I wanted to be a girl. He tried to explain stuff, he wasn't that much older so I'm sure it must have been a tough situation to handle and he did great compared to what I read here that parents say. It didn't change my mind at all, it just made me feel uneasy about expressing those feelings.
Also, this >>6155426
Occam's razor says that it's more probable that society didn't make a spectacle out of it than some general random mutation in the population without any direct conection.
>>6153540
Statements like this always triggers me, there are an equal number of FtMs they are just a) less noticeable b) society doesn't make as much of a hoo ha of a woman in a suit compared to a man in a dress.
This whole thread is dumb, anyone who knows anything about medicine will be aware that more diagnoses =/= more cases. There were always the same percentage of trannies in the population now and 5,000 years ago, they just stayed in the closet back then
>>6153419
It "seems" that way in large part because they're just featured in the media more so you notice them more and think they're everywhere even though it's still an incredibly tiny minority. The same thing happens with sensationalist media about disasters like plane crashes leading people to think they're a much more common/big problem than they statistically are.
There has been an increase in access to treatment and bpa or other pollution or health issues could theoretically increase the chance of birth defects including hormonal ones like trannies and intsex disorders however neither of those factors has caused an actual statistical increase in trannies to match /pol/ conspiracy theories.
>Is it a mental illness?
Gender dysphoria is but the treatment is transition and "mentall illness" is not the same thing as made-up/illegitimate like some try to portray it as to serve some agenda. Actually most humans experience some kind of mental illness at some point.
>Is it a "grass is greener" scenario? Is it related to childhood drama?
Well neurological differences have been observed including in regions that are non-plastic past the womb so it's likely that at least some predisposition to being a tranny exists before social influences.
>>6153707
>Or do they have different mental blueprints deciding on how they think?
Well there are neurological differences between men and women that could potentially influence behavior but it's not stuff like "girl brain" = dresses and pink and ponies.
>Could the differences in men and women be determined by social conditioning?
A lot of the differences between the sexes are certainly conditioned cultural responses and can be seen to vary across cultures and that could influence neurology but there are neurological structures and regions a that are set at certain points in development too. You should do some research into brain plasticity if you're interested.
>>6153419
Tbqh, I just wanted to be on the side that is winning (women), and I wanted to be treated better. It worked, so, yay! Men are suckers.
>>6153916
>to believe that sex exclusive brain structures are even a thing sounds pretty stupid to me
Well they do exist, you're free to ignore reality that you don't like but that's more than just "pretty" stupid.
They are both ugly and wouldn't pass even if the beholder was deep in his cups.
>>6153459
>Of course as the cultural climate becomes more tolerant you will see more transgender people because they are not forced to live in a closet.
If anything as transpeople become more visible they'll be even more likely to become victims of violence. At least back in the '70s there was even less reason for people to assume the phenomenon would become an epidemic.
>>6158982
nice try /pol/
>>6153419
Probably just more knowledge and acceptance, leading to more people making the step.
There probably always were this many transpeople, they just didn't act on it.
>>6154281
Agreed. Now less than half of the latest generation in the US thinks it's straight, specifically because gays pushed their agenda so effectively. This is what will happen with trans, too, it won't be .02% forever.
>>6160970
I'm being completely honest. People are friendlier, they help me out, give me free stuff, and don't expect me to do guy shit. Testosterone life was hell.
