Why aren't LGBT more libertarian? I don't understand it.
>you can't tell me who I can and cannot love!
>you can't disallow gays to be married
>cannot disallow gays in military!
>use whatever bathroom you want!
>>6130850
Speaking as a gay man, because libertarianism is an untenable political philosophy if implemented as the basis of society.
I am a left libertarian.
I often feel more in common with right libertarians than leftists. To me freedom is the most important. This is also why I can't fucking stand authoritarians and nationalists who want to control transpeoples bodies/womans bodies/etc in the name of subjective moral superiority. I.E. "muh degeneracy"
>>6130850
Being economically disadvantaged means they see value in social services?
>>6130881
the abortion debate isn't about "controlling womens' bodies" you mong
>>6130850
Most of the ones I know who self-describe as "libertarian" are either hardcore religious conservative authoritarians who just like smoking weed sometimes or urban atheist VICE hipsters trying to edge in on the newest ironic opinions and rub shoulders with the "real men" proles who "earned their beards."
To me it's a childish, ill-thought-out philosophy that makes dumb people think they sound smart when they go on the same anti-establishment conspiracy rants over and over and over.
>>6130862
fucking /thread
>>6130850
I don't understand it either. Too pussy for it, I guess.
>>6130892
How so? A fetus does not sustain itself. It is a parasite growing inside my body if I do not want it. It is an amorphous mass of cells without consciousness or self awareness.
It is my right to choose as a woman, what I do with my body, that includes the cells that grow on and inside of me. The most fundamental point of freedom is body autonomy. Without the freedom to control your body, there is no freedom at all.
You'd get outraged over aborting a fetus but have no trouble with the hundreds of millions of factory farmed animals that get butchered every single year, all while they actually experience pain. Tell me again how much you care for life?
>>6130926
Most people grow out of it, but 4chan is pretty stunted.
>>6130850
Right libertarian fag reporting in. Live and let live
>>6130931
i'm not going to argue over abortion. i frankly don't care about it much. the problem is that you fundamentally misunderstand why people oppose it, which is the idea that the conceived entity is not fully a part of the mother's body
you are seriously delusional if you think people against it are against it because "muh rethugglikkans just hate women so much and don't want to allow them control over their OWN bodies"
>>6130850
If you are talking about US politics its because they like being the democrat's house niggers. They have the welfare queen mentality. They live their lives with little thought towards and preparation for the future and want an authoritarian government to take care of them when they are old and used up with few options left.
>>6130953
>i'm not going to argue over abortion.
>i frankly don't care about it much.
>the problem is
And you fucked up. If you "don't care" about something, don't care about it. Don't pretend to not care about shit you do because that's just fucking disingenuous and cowardly as shit.
The entire point is that conception is massively subjective, which is why religious people feel entitled to force women to reproduce against their will. Both sides typically understand one another entirely, it's just that one cites God, metaphysics and mysticism as evidence for their righteousness and the other cites observable science, empathy and lived human experiences.
Not even that anon btw but holy fuck if you want to pick a side pick a side. Don't be a little scumshit like this next time, it's disgusting.
>>6130953
> the problem is that you fundamentally misunderstand why people oppose it, which is the idea that the conceived entity is not fully a part of the mother's body
It doesn't matter what idea they use as a cover-up. The effect is the same.
>>6130881
Same here, concerning the "muh degeneracy" shit. I'm around the same spot on the graph as you too.
>>6131010
>The effect is the same.
This true. It's committing murder no matter how you slice it.
I care that people care because they shouldn't have any control of what anyone does to anyone's own body.
>>6131060
and yeah it does, not just black criminals either.
>>6131070
>I care that people care because they shouldn't have any control of what anyone does to anyone's own body.
again, you are making an assumption that others don't hold
your argument is basically
>a fetus/whatever is completely a part of the mother's body
>a person has the right to bodily autonomy
>therefore a woman has the right to abort a fetus/whatever
the argument is valid, but it's only sound if the two premises are true. people generally accept the second. not everybody accepts the first.
>>6130850
Because libertarianism is literal autism
>>6131093
that's because the religious right: life starts at conception!!
it's just a fucking booger inside of you that has no thoughts no feelings no nothing. It is not autonomous. How do you feel about killing bugs?
>>6131103
they're not half as bad as those Bernie Sanders cucks.
>>6130850
Because there is a pretty big difference in the political aesthetics of 'I have the right to do this' compared to 'you can't tell me I can't do this'
>>6131104
No one wants to listen about how much you don't give a shit about how much you don't give a shit about things because no one gives a shit about you to give a shit what you don't give a shit about because no one gives a shit about you to give a shit what you don't give a shit about.
>>6131139
>delicious hidf bux
>>6131093
You got BTFO. Your opinion is shit because it is subjective moral superiority. It IS controlling someones body because the state uses a definition of morality derived from "Life at Conception". Life doesn't begin at conception, objectively. Only your faggy little religion does and if I don't believe in it but am forced to abide by it, you are controlling my body.
btw, jesus was a power bottom.
>>6131234
>>6131234
>>6131277
my favorite was the graphic flag that said "Mine your feet, darling." Always gave me a chuckle.
Fuck you, fascist scum.
Because I would be instantly killed in libertarian society and they wouldn't get any consequences
I'd rather not live in Somalia
Also I am nationalist and real libertarians would be anti-borders
Libertarians are like anarchists, they don't realize that most people are too stupid and self-absorbed to live in world like that. Yes I do think it's stupid that EU has too many regulations that completely ditch all the common sense but I don't care I need to pay taxes and follow rules in order to have working society. I like rules and order, and it makes it easier to trust other people as well. I work at retirement house and when I see people not bothering even take care of their parents/grandparents and just expecting us to do everything with minimal pay, I don't see them being able to take care of the rest of the society either. I'm all for fascism, it's the only way to take care of people(meaning your own people, I don't give a shit what happens in third world and they don't need to come here).
>muh free trade muh NAP
>>6130850
Because libertarians are really secret conservative austists who are rich, come from wealth who don't want to share.
>>6130850
Libertarian position is that a store may choose whether or not to sell a cake to a gay couple or not. They think government should not have a say in this type of private contract between citizens.
And while they are not against gay marriage, many of them think churches should not be forced to have wedding ceremonies for gay couples. Freedom of religion reigns.
Put it simply, the left offers them more.
I think the libertarian position is still superior and more stable long term. If the government has a say in these issues, one day the view might go from pro-lgbt to anti-lgbt. LGBT group being the minority will never have enough votes alone, they can never win the numbers game without some ally. This is why the neutral view which is to leave the government completely out of it, is the best option.
I've always been a Libertarian, I find that it goes very well with being LGBT.
Do whatever you want(long as you don't infringe on other people's freedom), say whatever you want, have sex with whomever you want(so long as there's consent), own as much guns as you want, smoke/inject whatever you want into your body and drink your soda beverage at any size of your choosing and nobody should be able to stop you.
>>6130892
>mfw the abortion debate is just a time-wasting farce implemented to distract republican voters from real issues
because libertarians are not usually socially liberal beyond just not giving a shit. the freedoms they care about is deregulating shit and getting rid of taxes
>>6130850
I am a social libertarian economic conservative.
>>6130931
>A fetus does not sustain itself. It is a parasite growing inside my body
You're a psychopath if you believe that a fetus is less than a living being.
>without consciousness or self awareness
So you magically know more about consciousnesses than scientists who have been studying this for over a century. Very nice.
>hundreds of millions of factory farmed animals that get butchered every single year
Not humans
I'm just glad in less than 100 years we'll have artificial uterus and reproduction will not be dependable of mongrels like you anymore.
The only reason why I'm in favor of abortion is because the women who need to abort would never be capable of raising a child, so it's better for that kid to be dead than to deal with such a shitty woman. Plus most of the abortions are nignogs.
>>6131234
>Life doesn't begin at conception, objectively
I want to see studies that show that, stop using the argument if you are not going to back it up.
>>6130931
What if the father wants to keep the child, even if you're not involved? Why is it only right when the woman wants to keep the child but not the man and then the woman and her family sue the father and his family for all their money?
Libertarian is a based political ideology, if only it wasn't hijacked by conservaturds who made it all about muh constitushun and GOV'IES GET OUT REEE which are all fancy positions to care about but they often tip toe around everyday issues like abortion.
Libertarians are the psudo intellectuals of poltics
The best ones are just applying "objective" ideas of how things work into a subjective field like politics, and culture. which never fucking works because people dont work how you want them to
Its the poltical idology of people who want to seem smart and like they know what they are talking about not knowing that everything they say doesnt apply when you add people
>>6130931
I don't agree with your polemical description of the situation but it doesn't matter.
What matters is that a woman has to have 100% control over her body and that no government or religious institution cannot ever impose restrictions on her and tell her what she CAN or CANNOT do. In Judaism life of a mother trumps life of a baby so if the situation demands it the fetus must go.
>>6135256
Because fathers do not sustain, carry, and nourish a baby for 9 months. Fathers do not have their physical body destroyed by pushing a baby out their vagina. Fathers do not live for 9 months experiencing the emotional and physical pains of carrying.
I do think men should have a say in whether the fetus is aborted/not, but I also think their opinion should not contain more weight than the woman carrying.
>>6135307
"government get out" is the most "everyday" position possible
>>6135256
if the "father" (sperm donor is more precise) wants to keep the child but she doesn't he has to find someone else who will consent to having it
no one will bear your baby against their will, dude
>>6135352
But minarchism is as unattainable as the utopian society in communism tbqh.
>>6130850
because libertarianism "everyone who isn't a rich cishet white male should be executed in the street" is incompatible with LGBT?
>>6135420
That's not what Libertarianism is, read a fucking book.
>>6134456
Not at all. Preventing abortions for the poor is one of the critical components in ensuring the stability of present power/wealth imbalances, and perpetuating stereotypes about minorities and their oppression of the majority.
>>6134456
This, if it actually mattered they would have over turned row v wade when they had control of supreme court
>>6135746
Nonetheless, if someone wants an abortion, they'll succeed in getting one. The entire discussion is a joke.
>>6135420
I came here to laugh at you.
Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgment.
>>6135420
How does it make you feel that the libertarian party has been campaigning for gay rights for decades while the democrats in 2008 election still opposed gay marriage. Democrats only adopted the opinion once it became cool.
>>6135420
quality b8
>>6135883
Libertarians also won the support of nambla at the time
>>6130850
Because I hate immigrants and muslims and want to keep them out of this country.
>Libercucktarians
Pretty much all the trannies and fags I know who aren't part of the "gay community" are hard-right and even vaguely fascist. No lesbians though, they're pretty universally leftist.
Because libertarians are almost universally against gay marriage.
>>6136390
What libertarians have you been talking to? They're usually either in favour of marriage equality, or the complete abolition of government marriage.
>>6136398
>They're usually either in favour of marriage equality, or the complete abolition of government marriage.
Lies. Regarding the first lie, they're sometimes in favor of states deciding for themselves, which is the same trick conservatives try to use. I'm not interested in my state full of straight people deciding I can't marry. Regarding the second lie, that'll never happen, not one million years from now, not one trillion years from now. That's just a libertarian dodge for why they think it's ok to take away gay rights.
>>6130850
I am a libertarian, a left libertarian, not a stupid fucking ancap.
>>6136516
TROTSKY REEEEEE
>>6136424
>they're sometimes in favor of states deciding for themselves, which is the same trick conservatives try to use
I haven't seen ONE libertarian and that goes directly against the libertarian mentality of "don't step on my rights".
>Regarding the second lie, that'll never happen, not one million years from now, not one trillion years from now
So because what they envision is unrealistic it's a lie? You're either retarded or baiting hard.
>That's just a libertarian dodge for why they think it's ok to take away gay rights.
>"what do you think about marriage equality?"
>"I think the government should step out of this subject altogether"
>"OMG WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TAKE AWAY GAY PEOPLE'S RIGHTS?"
Seriously either stop b8 or stop posting.
>>6130850
>>you can't tell me who I can and cannot love!
true
>>you can't disallow gays to be married
that is more about getting the state out of a racket more than than anything else
>>cannot disallow gays in military!
true, but there would be much smaller military in a libertarian government
>>use whatever bathroom you want!
dependent own the whims of the owner of said restrooms
Because when you let people do whatever they want they tend to start hating gays because religion is not libertarian.
>>6137845
What harm does an individual's hate do to you?
>>6131002
>it's just that one cites God, metaphysics and mysticism as evidence for their righteousness and the other cites observable science, empathy and lived human experiences.
Wew lad. There is nothing scientific about "my body my choice".
Any rationalist approach will lead you to conclude that the fetus is a separate metabolic entity from the mother. And as a separate metabolic human entity, it has a right to life. The human right to life is an essential axiom our society is built on.
The ONLY question that anyone can legitimately ask if they're being rational and scientific is "does the fetus' right to life trump the mother's right to bodily integrity?" And since we have all sorts of precedent for forcing people to care for others when they create the situation where others need to be cared for, the answer is obviously the right to life wins in this case. Just like how my right to life would trample your right to private property if you cut my legs and someone confiscated your shit to pay for my operation.
>>6137885
I have the right to control what happens with my own body, end of story. Go the fuck back to pol retard
>>6130850
Some libertarians would disagree with the fourth point, as it would be infringing on the freedom of businesses and individuals to choose who uses their bathrooms. Indeed, libertarian beliefs are often used to justify discriminating against LGBT people.
>>6135509
In practice it is though. The problem is that the NAP does not acknowledge the concept of "sin by omission". As long as you aren't actively harming someone, you're not in violation, no notion of an obligation to help those in need exists. So, killing someone for being gay is a violation of NAP, but refusing to treat a severely injured gay person is not. And in fact laws REQUIRING doctors to treat anyone who is injured are considered a violation of the NAP.
>>6137865
Hate usually entails more than just thought.
