Hey guys, do you believe gender is a spectrum?
I've never felt fully like a boy but asking people to call me anything else is too much of a hassle compared to the relatively little feeling of discomfort I get when people call me "he."
>>6098368
yeah. surprisingly there are more than two ways for a brain to be configured
but 4chan will tell you NO THERE R TWO GENDERS ADN NON BINARY IS TUMBRL MEME NOT REAL KILL THE SJWS SPECIAL SNOWLFAKE BLAH BLAH
>>6098368
No you're thinking of autism.
everything is autism
Why are you so hung up on it? Who gives a fuck what others call you. If it's a hassle wear a name tag.
>>6098368
Wow your fucking picture kills me. Fuck you man. Fuck you. Fuck you
Fuck you
FUck
you
dick
asshole
Also, protipp: maybe you just want to be a qt femboi
>>6098419
I'm not hung up on it, did you even read what I wrote?
I wanted to ask some potentially like-minded individuals what they thought, that's all
>>6098437
One question for clarification. Do you have XY or XX chromosomes?
>>6098462
I assume XY
>>6098368
Yes, but I believe that you shouldn't come up with a new name for every division of the spectrum, much less announce that you're disgusted with your body by sharing those titles with the public.
Humans are not unicorns. You might actually be a magical pony, but if you intend to be treated like a human, don't call yourself a unicorn.
>>6098717
Wat
>>6098717
Of course, labels are fucking stupid
>>6098368
No. There's no such thing as gender in reality.
It's possible for men to have personality traits, likes and desires that women tend to have more often then men, but that doesn't make them women.
Everyone is free to live their lives as they want to, but if someone is convinced that they ARE a woman or were MEANT to be a woman, they have a psychological problem.
Not liking being a male doesn't make you not a male. It's a matter of coming to terms with your body image. A lot of people go down the path of altering their body only to be disappointed with the result, not fully understanding what can realistically be expected.
What really matters in the end is who you are, not what you are.
>>6098368
No.
Gender is determined by biological sex.
Gender roles are bullshit and should not be enforced. If I decide to throw on a dress and spend my day doing needlework and talking about feelings while always having a close shave with bobbed hair, that should not make me any less of a man.
Gender is not a social construct, gender roles are.
Transgender is a mental disorder. Body Dismorphia Disorder causes extreme distress to the individual, and in cases where it makes them feel as if they are the opposite gender the only real cure is transition. I support transition 100% and I believe that if treating someone as the opposite gender (even if they're not) is the only moral option to help relieve the suffering they experience every day.
There are only two genders, as with sexes.
Those with the misfortune to be born with fucked up junk can pick one or the other, whichever lets them be happy.
Saying you are non-binary/genderfluid or any of that other made up shit is blatant attention-whoring and should not be encouraged.
Anyone who says gender is determined by the way you act is full of shit and took too many of these new-age sociology classes. There is no empirical data to be found, it's just a bunch of jerk-offs who got out of their doctoral programs and decided they wanted to stir shit by making claims based entirely out of thin air that they've managed to get the ultra-left to hop onto.
>>6099217
I should clarify that by "there's no such thing as gender in reality" I am NOT claiming that there is no such thing as sex.
Gender is trying to apply sex to things that don't have it. Sex only exists in the context of organisms that reproduce sexually with two different types of sex within the species.
>>6099242 here
>>6099217 & >>6099256 gets it.
This idea that "gender roles = your gender" is total crap. This comes from the same people who will tell you that doing X, Y, or Z male thing doesn't you make you any less of a woman. But oh wait gender roles define your gender not the other way around.
What the fuck.
>>6098368
That graph is bullshit. By eating healthy and exercising you can live 20 + more years than that. And that's not taking into account advances in medicine that will inevitably happen.
>>6099268
What?
From your post, it seems like we are saying essentially the same thing. I don't understand what the problem is.
>>6099242
Well guys , case closed. This guy says gender is determined by biological sex so I guess it must be true hurr durr . I could just as easily say the exact opposite and it would be equally as true. Because what you said is opinion, not fact. Dumb faggot.
Rats are far better indicators of what is going on. They just have behaviour and not all of our bullshit mental constructs to cloud shit up.
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Further tests revealed a strange asymmetry. Whereas newborn male rats deprived of testosterone will, as Harris found, experience female-like ovulation, newborn female rats deprived of estrogen will continue to develop as females. In adulthood they will not seem somehow male. Although the rats' ovaries have been removed, their brains will still produce the stimulus to ovulate. Scientists realized that without testosterone the genetic blueprint for masculinity was essentially worthless. Indeed, they learned, for a male rat's brain to become truly organized as male, the rat must be exposed to testosterone within the first five days of life. After the fifth day the masculinizing window of opportunity is closed, and the genetic male will grow up with a "female" brain. In contrast, the brain of a female needs no estrogen for organization; left alone, it will become female."
From: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/06/homosexuality-and-biology/304683/
>>6098368
No.
You're male or female, if you're mtf you're a male transition to female, and ftm vice versa.
There's no "agender", there's no "genderfluid"
just boy and girl.
>>6099288
No, because what he said is actually grounded in reality.
Human beings have two sexes. There is no 'in between'.
Though typical males tend to have psychological traits in common that women tend to not have in common with them, that doesn't mean not conforming to that trend means you're a woman in a man's body or some other absurd nonsense.
Sex is purely physiological.
>>6099288
Sex = male (penor) or female (Jaina Solo)
Male = men (his, he, him)
Female = women (hers, she, her)
It's been this way forever. Turning around suddenly and saying "actually no it's not here's literally no evidence" puts the burden of disproving what I said on them.
Please, tell me more how gender roles aren't socially constructed and determine gender. Sounds kind of shitty to say that some things are inherently feminine and some are inherently male, doesn't it? Does that mean it's really NOT okay for men to cry and express emotions, because if they do it makes them a woman?
Try again.
>>6099305
With sex, yes. Gender isn't necessarily concurrent with sex. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's a mix of the two.
I never said that someone who identifies as a woman is a woman, so don't put words in my mouth. They were born with a dick. As far as biological sex goes, they are a man. (and vice a versa)
But Gender isn't sex. That's my point. They aren't the same thing.
>>6099242
I think it's less about their junk than it is about how they identify sexually. How can you say that you're either female or male gender when there are literally millions upon millions of people who identify as some mixture of the two?
I agree that it's annoying, these people who want to shove it in everyone's face that they don't conform or whatever. But that isn't representative of everyone. Some people really just don't identify as one way or the other, not because they want attention, but because that's the way they feel inside. The brain can vary immensely. I just find it kind of ridiculous for you to say that everyone literally has to identify as one or the other and if they don't they are making shit up and being an attention whore.
>>6099290
But not all people who say they are 'transgender' are not low testosterone.
And there is a reason the word "female" has quotations around it where it says ""female" brain"
Easy to digest language in an article is not a substitute for actually understanding the biology.
>>6099351
Gender is a linguistic construct. It doesn't exist in reality.
You don't have a gender, words describing things have gender.
>>6099313
You just contradicted your entire argument.
If gender roles are socially constructed and determine gender, that means that gender is a social construct.
Here you say that gender is not a social construct>>6099242
You just want to argue because you are a cunt, for whatever reason.
And by the way, I never said that it was one way or the other.
Try again dumb faggot.
>>6099373
Saying that the idea that "females have to clean dishes, do laundry and bring up children" isn't a social construct isn't the same as saying that being a female is a social construct.
>>6099365
That's like saying the economy or the stock market doesn't exist because it's just a bunch of numbers and statistics on paper. Those statistics still have basis in reality in much the same way that a person's gender affects the decisions they make.
Yes, it's a construct. We constructed it. That means it exists.
>>6099387
Languages weren't carefully designed to be perfectly representative of reality. They change and evolve organically. They are imperfect.
Economies are built upon quantifiable resources.
>>6099290
Yes there are two states the body can go to, boy or girl, it's locked in from conception.
If we strip a developing fetus of all sex hormones from early on it will appear female and develop along those lines. Despite XY. So female is kinda the base state if you will. That strip between your balls and ass is remants of that weird femalish proto-genitalia.
Becoming a man takes alot more hormonal trickery. Even if your plumbing developed fine your brain may not have. If it missed it's window you will be left with a fembrain no matter how many years afterwards you marinate that brain in testosterone. Congratulations you are now a freak on the inside whilst appearing fine on the outside and only a brain scan or an autopsy can prove that you really are a bitch and not a real man.
>>6099404
So under that logic, economies don't change and evolve organically and are perfect?
That's retarded.
Also, economies aren't necessarily completely built on quantifiable resources. Much of the stock market is based on confidence, which isn't really a quantifiable resource.
>>6099384
What exactly are you even arguing? You say gender is not a social construct, then in the next comment you say that it is.
And yes it is. If your idea of a female is doing dishes, laundry and raising children and that is a social construct.... That means that being a female is a social construct.
I'm not arguing one way or the other. I'm just saying that you are retarded and full of shit.
If gender was completely socially constructed there would be absolutely 0 need for transsexuals to exist.
>>6099359
>But not all people who say they are 'transgender' are not low testosterone.
That can be one cause. Shitty receptors on various tissues can be another. Low levels of enzymes to convert the hormones. etc etc. The point is masculinisation of the brain is a complex process that can fuck up at any point along the way.
>And there is a reason the word "female" has quotations around it where it says ""female" brain"
Yes, it is not a if/or state, It's just a process of neuronal pruning and restructuring that fucked up along the way. Leaving you as some sort of mental hafling freak.
>Easy to digest language in an article is not a substitute for actually understanding the biology.
The deeper you look the more complex it gets. There are no clear definitive answers, but there are hints as to the possible mechanisms at play.
>>6098368
The concept of "gender" only came about because it was more polite than asking "DO YOU HAVE A VAGINA OR A PENIS??"
And I can prove it.
Now that everyone is fucking around with definitions, we're reduced to asking "DO YOU HAVE A VAGINA OR A PENIS???"
Literally anytime someone is ambiguous and refuses to disclose whether they are a boy or girl this question is the last resort.
You can't just shit in language and invent your own bullshit, only EXTREMELY charismatic and influential people can do this to any sort of effect. And even then it takes years.
Language is democratic, and pronounfags are an extreme minority. Git gud or get over it.
>>6099444
>If gender was completely socially constructed there would be absolutely 0 need for transsexuals to exist.
Yeah. It overlaps with biology. There are very real anatomical differences between female brains and male brains. But with so many varying degrees between the two states.
Plus if you go with biology it basicly says gay men are less of a man. Failed men in a way. Someone will make that link since its a masculinisation process that did not go all the way. And that will shurely piss some people off.
Imagine if you had a test that could give you the answer that your brain has f.inst a 70% degree of masculinisation. Then some alpha asshole posts his 97% score on Facebook gloating. That could make quite a few guys feel threatened. Just either male or female no matter the brain, that is much more comfortable.
I just hope the future will make us all into androgynous aliens who reproduce entirely by artificial means. Then there would be alot less discussions like this happening.
>>6099563
Sometimes I feel like I can understand what people are basically thinking, mostly due to their body language. I feel like this may be the initial steps towards telepathy.
>>6099474
It takes 2 seconds though to add "or something else?" to "do u hav a penis or vagina" and you then find out they have retarded pronouns and you can stop the conversation quicker, or actually get over yourself and not care about whether penis or vagine.
If men and women are supposed to be treated equal then there shouldn't be such a strong distinction between genders in the English language, mostly socially but also inherenly
>>6098395
there are 2 genders
non binary is a tumblr meme
and you are cancer
pls kys
>>6098462
thats so triggering
who says the chromosomes I have represent who I am?
why does it matter what chromosomes I have if I feel they dont suit me?
what If I feel represented with different chromosomes or more chromosomes?
from now on I want to be adressed as my true chromosomes
XYMCA 47 chromosomes total
>>6100044
I'm not even disagreeing with you, but please stop using the word *trigger*. It makes you sound like a total douche. The reality is that nobody has to respect your "safe space". I can say whatever the fuck I want to you, regardless of whether you are 'triggered' by it.
Oh .. I'm sorry. Did I just commit a micro-aggression towards you?
>>6099992
>shouldn't be such a strong distinction between genders
Why?
Literally why?
Being different isn't bad, it's what makes life interesting.
>"You shouldn't call people retarded!"
Why? They are retarded. You're refusing to call them that, because in your mind being retarded is a very bad thing. So they're 'special' or some bullshit. But not retarded! Being retarded is bad!
This is why liberalism fails, because in order for everyone to be equal, it insists that everyone is the same.
>>6098368
I do t fucking care. But if anyone came up to me irl and said they were "nom-binary" I will blow us all up right there, senpai.
>>6100106
OH MY GOD IM HAVING A PTSD
IM LIKE SO PTSD RIGHT NOW
IM LEETRALLY CRYING
U R A MONSTER U WHITE
the words sex and gender are synonyms, just like the words buy and purchase
i've seen some people say stuff like "there are 2 sexes but there are multiple genders". but that doesn't make sense because they mean the same thing
it's really just a problem of the english language
>>6100462
the problem is that people think words are imperical things and absolute truths
words mean whatever people want them to mean
and these people want to change words to make their fantasies more acceptable
they are delusional and we should start from there
we should let them call themselves however they want but their skewed perception shouldnt poison the rest of the world just to make them feel better
>>6100362
>Being different isn't bad, it's what makes life interesting.
>This is why liberalism fails, because in order for everyone to be equal, it insists that everyone is the same.
What you fail to understand is that a distinction between genders actually PREVENTS people from expressing their individuality, since their primary identity is as a boy or girl rather than something unique. We cannot acknowledge our differences until we see each other as human, nothing more and nothing less.
>>6100044
-sigh- you fucking retard
I asked because I'm trying to figure out whether you were born as a boy or born as a girl you dipshit. As in, I was trying to figure out if youre mtf/ftm or whatever.
I'm glad you get triggered so much at quite literally nothing, you pathetic sack of shit. I am immensely glad that you are a tranny because that is one of the worst things to be, and your life is pretty much guaranteed to be shit when you combine that fact with the fact that you get buttblasted from someone just curious exactly in which way you are trans.
Now I don't even care. Please go fuck yourself, and die. I was being nice and wasn't even trying to attack you, I just wanted to know ;.; Fuck you.
>>6101022
im crying right now )^:
why r u so mean?
nice dubs tho
>>6101141
Yeah I was a little too harsh, I'm sorry. It made me sad too and I tend to lash out breddy hard. It was just a misunderstanding, I know how often people go "lol XY chromosomes you're a boy lol"
>>6100998
They can call themselves whatever they want. But they don't have to self-righteously tear down the concept of gender because "it's not real, it's a social construct". I got news, the concept of a social construct is a social construct. 4chan is just a series of electrical signals. Humans are just animals with a stick up their ass. Consciousness is just a chemical reaction like putting mentos in soda. I could go on.
Maybe you can tell, but I'm not some /pol/ faggot. I don't hate trans or gay people, but y'all gotta get on top of your PR or you're gonna get fucked by a very fickle and unkind public.
I think that your basic problem is twofold:
1) Jenner fucked the trans community, because she made it an attention whore thing instead of an inspiring thing. And it didn't help that she was a shit person to begin with.
2) You gotta make it sexy. That might sound weird, but the whole gay thing caught on because it was simple. There are straight people, there are gay people, and if you wanna get really fancy there are bi people. That's as far as most people think and that's about as complicated as it needs to be. Y'all needa set the precedent that there are boys, there are girls, and there are people in the middle. But if you insist on naming every number between 0 and 1 you WILL LOSE. Ask a mathematician why.
>>6098368
Oh fuck I am an adult
>>6098368
I believe everyone are just bisexuals of some sort. Everything else is bullshit.
We are sexual creatures nothing is ABSOLUTELY forcing us to enjoy JUST ONE TYPE of sexual intercourse.
Get over with it already.
Yes.
Forward!
