I'm not shitposting. I'm not trying to make people hate themselves.
I just truly believe that we should be trying to find genetic treatments to permanently remove gender disphoria from trans peoples' brains instead of convincing them to cut their genitalia off or give them cancer inducing hormones
>>6060617
>the "i am not shitposting" shitposting episode
yes you are, bud
Being trans might not be genetic, though. Current scientific literature thinks it's due to a flood of estrogen to the brain in the womb, feminising it, while the body gets hit with testosterone, turning it into a biological man. Genetic treatments may not be viable if that's accurate as they think. If being trans is just a feminised brain, trying to 'cure' it implies that having a female brain is something that needs to be cured, which science will never agree with. If having a female brain is a disease, why not cut into every woman's brain to cure their 'problem'?
If the brain is the centre of personhood (everything that makes you, 'you'), then trans people are more legitimately the gender they say they are than their biological sex, and I don't think anyone will ever get on board with the idea their brains need to be 'cured'.
What treatment would you propose otherwise?
That's nice anon. You go ahead and do that, tell me how it works out. I'll be over here continuing to use the most effective treatment in currently in existence.
we are closer to giving them fully functional sex changes than we are to changing gender dysphoria. I understand the argument that we should try to get them the best help possible but atm thats not getting rid of dysphoria, and its not coming any time soon most likely based on the complications of the brain and how hard it is to change things even in cis people
I'm waiting for the day when
1) trans people with dysphoria can have their DNA engineered and cloned fully functional biological bodies that match their gender identity with the right plumbing
2) have such trans people's mind transferred into such cloned bodies
3) viola, cis, without dysphoria
Too bad that will probably not happen in my lifetime.
>>6060723
Yep, for now we'll just have to settle for these sub par barbaric techniques of surgically altering our bodies and taking hormone supplements. Sigh if only we were born a couple centuries later
Go ahead and fund the research. Being trans fucking sucks. Just don't stop the current effective treatment unless you find something ethically sound that works just as well, or better than the current system.
>>6060723
Cybernetic augmentation makes a lot more sense.
I am autistic and I troubles shoot my brain like a computer.
ERROR.
Type: Mood
root.brain.seratonin_40% low.
Symptom: Synaptic misfire in vagina. DRIVERS NOT FOUND. This device may be installed improperly. Estrogen.edocrine.failure. socket hangup. . . timed out.
falling into crippling life long depression...
I've been coding my errors out like this for the last few months trying to figure out my brain (i've had some success but mostly people just assume I'm schizophrenic). I am awaiting the day when a microchip can externalize my crash dump files for me so I can compile them easier and actually reprogram instead of just pretending I'm a cyborg to escape this existence.
>>6060723
>wont happen in my lifetime
Or ever
>>6060617
Why genetic treatments?
>>6061524
Of course they think you're schizophrenic if your body isn't coded in assembly.
>>6060617
Many including doctors and even trannies would welcome a "magic pill" treatment but the technology that it would hypothetically take to achieve is so far off that it's barely worth discussing and would likely create ethical and philosophical issues completely separate from tranny issues since it would require such a large degree of neurological manipulation that it could potentially change other things too from sexual orientation to political and religious leanings.
Transition and working against discrimination is the most effective available option for the foreseeable future.
Also all the medications that trannies take see other uses with cis men and women.
>>6060637
>Being trans might not be genetic, though
Yeah the current evidence points to it being epigenetic. Better healthcare for pregnant women could MAYBE help a bit.
>>6060617
>Fixing something that does not want to be fixed or even acknowledges something is wrong and will shoot down any attempt to show them something is wrong.
Have fun with that.
But anyway there's a more simpler solution out there than can be pursued.
You can just convince them to accept who they are currently on the outside and the inside.
As far as I can tell the main motivation for their actions is that they're uncomfortable with what they are in reality vs what they perceive themselves to be.
We must go from.
>I was born a woman in a mans body and it makes me uncomfortable enough to cause me to change myself and tell people to call me a woman's name and get pissy at them if they call me by my birth name or a guy/male because I can't accept reality to the point I might attempt to end myself one day.
to
>I was born a woman in a mans body but that's okay because I'm alright with who I am and feel no need to change myself or force what I think I am on other people. I have found my inner peace.
As much as i want a qt ftm bf, i also want to create treatment that would prevent embryos from becoming trans
>>6060637
The trying to change anything and everything from the way the thing is is a very straight behavior in and of itself. Trying to "cure" such a thing poses ethical concerns in and of itself. Someone must understand what I mean.
>>6062635
>>I was born a woman in a mans body but that's okay because I'm alright with who I am and feel no need to change myself or force what I think I am on other people. I have found my inner peace.
That requires a lot of self delusion. I tried doing that and I wound up attempting suicide twice before I gave up and transitioned.
>>6060617
>I just truly believe that we should be trying to find genetic treatments to permanently remove gender disphoria from trans peoples' brains
Alright senpai, let us know when you figure that shit out.
>>6060617
I think we should be fixing ugly people. No seriously, I'm not trying to get people to hate me.
We should be working on removing them from the gene pool as opposed to letting them convince themselves they're pretty or can get surgery.
>>6062695
It most likely won't work for everyone of course.
People are different and what can work for a few might not work for others or perhaps even not be effective overall.
how are you born in a mans body but your a girl I have so much trouble accepting that I am ok with gays I am not gonna go around and discriminate but I don't understand how that exists it seems illogical and desu it seems stupid like I get it some people like the same gender but I don't understand how you can just be born in a mans body but a girl LIKE HOW
>>6060617
how about, if they want to work through their dysphoria without mone sand surgery, let em. most wont. cause its harder. but regardless its their life, not theirs, so lets not force any therapies.
>>6062822
We know that sex differentiation of the brain and body are not accomplished by the same process. We know that both processes tend to produce "typical" results for the chromosomal configuration of the fetus (be that XX, XY, XXY, etc...). Tendency is not certainty in the body, and it seems also to be untrue in the brain.
The major issue you're running into is the problem of the other. That is, you cannot perceive the other's mind. This makes you question its legitimacy over that which you can see (the body). That the body (what you believe has more worth and truth to it) is being made to conform to the mind (something you on a very real level doubt exists) upsets you.
>>6060657
>most effective treatment currently in existence
>increasing your likelihood of suicide by a factor of 10
seems real effective buddy.
>>6061524
Autist or not
I LOVE YOU
please keep working on that programming language neurology
<3
>>6062884
Untreated trannies have a very high suicide rate, modern post-transition trannies have a suicide rate in-line with the general population.
>>6062884
Poor, academically illiterate, repressed /pol/. Bring in your study and we'll destroy your conclusion, like every other time you've made this exact same thread using studies that support our current treatment as your weapons. It will never grow old watching you stab yourselves with them.
>>6060617
yeah, sounds cool. i mean, won't really help anyone alive today but we do science for the future anyway
>>6060617
"Genetic" treatments wouldn't work since GD isn't truly genetic in the first place. And I doubt changing the genes would really do any good once the damage is already done. The best hope for an actual cure is some kind of brain surgery, and we're nowhere near being able to do that safely.
>>6062884
>>increasing your likelihood of suicide by a factor of 10
[citation needed]
>>6060617
Well, similarly to homosexuality it all has to do with a very complicated interplay of genetics, EPIgenetics, maternal antibodies, maternal hormones, environmental factors, and birth order in the context of critical periods throughout brain development in the womb.
>>6063851
Point being that it doesn't seem feasible to "cure" it, and that distress might be more linked to social norm/standards ...
>>6063400
inb4 paul mchugh
>>6061524
>I am autistic and know absolutely nothing about neurology
IT'S NOT A GOOD ANALOGY EVEN FOR AUTISM
>>6060617
>we should brainwash paraplegics into thinking paraplegia is normal rather than trying to cure their legs!
>>6062884
Ohyea I'll pull a statistic out of my ass and pretend it's true, that'll show those degenerate tranny freaks! xD
>>6062773
I agree. Gene therapy should be used to fix ugly people's kids so that they are born pretty.
>>6060657
You know what people thought was the most effective treatment for mental illness was 50 or 60 years ago?
Lobotomies.
Would you consider them barbaric, anon?
>>6060617
>>6069025
>remove gender disphoria from trans peoples' brains instead of convincing them to cut their genitalia off or give them cancer inducing hormones.
Kek, first off a small fraction of the transpopulation EVER get surgery and I'll need a citation on cancer inducing hormones. Here are some real sources though.
Sexual dimorphism in the brain has been well understood since the 1990's. We then shifted and began looking at the brains of transgender people through the lens of sexual dimorphism. What we found is the sexually dimorphic areas of the transgender brain match their experienced gender rather than birth sex (or occupies an intermediate position).
This image contains about 15 years of sexual dimorphic keystone publications and the last 20 years of tranny brain research.
Conservashits like to talk about how we are biological creatures ruled by instinct. Well, how far fetched is it to assume that we have an instinctual sense of gender that drives natural behaviors?
>Structural Hemispheric and Lobar Connectivity
>Hypothalamus structure and activation
>Cortical Thickness
>White Matter
>Differences in Limbic nucleus
>diffusion tensor
>Callosal Shapes
>Androgen receptor repeat length
Individuals born with mismatched sexual dimorphism experience incongruency that makes them uncomfortable.
>>6069025
You show that strawman who's boss
>>6069035
Strawman, you say? How so?
He said that transgender surgery is the most effective treatment in modern times. I said that lobotomies were considered the best treatment 50 years ago.
Worry about your body and let others worry about there own.
>>6069088
Because there's no connection between SRS/HRT and lobotomies. The fact that lobotomies were once seen as effective says nothing about whether or not SRS/HRT are effective. Provide proof that SRS/HRT aren't effective, not comparisons to things that have nothing to do with them.
>>6069088
technically the brain modification youre suggesting is more comparable to a lobotomy
if someone prefers to look like a girl and can, theres nothing too shocking about that
the whole 'gender identity' politics are a blip in history and entirely delusional, it's just mimicry, sex traits were never meant to define us.
>>6069120
You strategically keep ignoring this
>>6069034
Technically everything is a blip in history though. Even the entire span of human existence. It literally means nothing in the grand scale of the cosmos. Where do you draw the threshold of what matters and what doesn't? A vocal group of trans-haters want to strip transpeople of body autonomy and even legitimize trans existence. Seems worth having politics over to me.
>>6069140
even de-legitimize*
>>6069140
I really want to smoke weed with you.
>>6069025
But the people arguing against transition actually are suggesting hypothetical lobotomies to remove the desire favoring the body over the brain and identity instead of transition which favors the brain and identity over the body and turns trans people into average functional member of society.
>>6061524
Delete system32.
>>6060617
>fix
Oh god it's that word again.
