What if there was a cure to dysphoria, or a cure to being gay or bi or whatever? A pill or an injection that made you straight and/or cis. No fuss, no asterix, your sexual and gender identity could be changed to match those patterns and you'd never have your feelings of sexual or gender leaning toward homosexuality or dysphoria again. There's no hidden cost, no social confusion, the human brain is an organ like any other and is now suddenly able to be mapped and altered as needed.
Would you take it? Why or why not?
i wouldn't say so, i'd be kinda boring
>>5953995
Gay male here.
I would never take it. A same sex relationship and lifestyle is superior and makes so much sense. I will never fully understand the female mind and she the same to my mind. There is no point in spending time getting to learn eachother when me and another man both know each other's mindsets and what we want from a relationship.
Plus the sex is great
>>5953995
yes
fuck being trans
The standard tranny reply is that they'd lose their whole self/identity/whatever. They are so myopic they can't even think outside their dysphoric little shell.
>>5953995
Trans here.
So we're clear, in your scenario, the brain can be altered perfectly, but the rest of the body cannot? Otherwise, why would I choose the former over the latter?
But in that scenario, given we're able to flawlessly alter the brain in any and every way but not the rest of the body, yeah. Let's shitcan the dysphoria.
>>5953995
I'd still be a loser, so it wouldn't matter. My sexuality doesn't factor into my life in any meaningful way.
>>5953995
Probably not. I use my AGP fantasies as fuel for my art.
>>5954047
No, no. They can magically fix anything wrong with your brain. They could fix your lack of confidence. They could fix your lack of motivation. They could fix your lack of Christianity, or socialism, or handedness, or fondness for Nickelback, or superfluous interest in Maine biology.
You could be perfect.
>>5954025
its funny because they want to take drugs to turn them into someone they are not through hormone therapy, but they wouldn't take a hypothetical drug that cured them from dysphoria and be ok with who they currently are.
>>5954123
It's strange to you that people with a persistent, strong discomfort/pain with their own sexed attributes and the experience of their assigned gender, and powerful urge to possess different sexed attributes and the experience of a gender they were not assigned would often rather be as they wish, than wish what they don't?
>>5953995
Some would, some wouldn't but it's a moot point since there's no indication of any pathway of research to create such a cure and it's concerning because it would involve such a great degree of neurological restructuring that such technology could likely also be used to change other thing including predisposition to certain political views.
>>5954115
Then I guess I'd be straight and make my folks happy with grandkids and shit.
>>5954153
The argument is that a hypothetical pill will turn them into something they are not and they will lose their identity.
When, they take an actual pill, that turn them into something they are not and changes their identity.
Yes, that is quite strange to me.
>>5954025
>The standard tranny reply
Yeah because I'm sure it's totally the statistical majority of responses according to rigorous standards of research and not just whatever dumb tumblr strawman serves your feels that trannies are "le delusional degenerates XD".
I've talked to plenty of trannies who wish they could just be normal.
>>5954123
So you value the body over the brain?
>>5954273
the body is the brain, there is no separation.
you don't have a body, you are a body.
>>5954263
Except that's not how it works. Your body isn't your identity. The emergent characteristics of your mind are your identity. Using a magical pill that would change those characteristics would create an entirely different person. Using actual medicine to decrease stressors on that mind isn't creating an entirely different person. They're not equivalent at all, not even in your completely idiotic attempt at word games. Or are you going to try to argue that when someone gains and loses weight they are now "something they are not"?
>>5954263
It's not really strange considering that many people value integrity of identity/mind/self over body. The idea of transition is that the body is adjusted to match their internal identity.
Is getting a tattoo or plastic surgery or working out to change your physique or dying your hair also some foolish attempt to turn into something you're not?
>>5954263
Hormones usually move their body closer into alignment with how they perceive their "proper" body. Once they've gotten over repression and (much) internalized hate, it
For someone who can't understand what it's like to have a mental state they've never had, you're expressing an awfully confusing inability to understand that people can't understand what it's like to have a mental state they've never had.
>>5954289
>>5954299
Don't assign me your view, it is your view that the hypothetical pill will make you into something you are not, and a real pill will make you into something you are. Both changes your identity.
A fat person that becomes thin is no longer what they were that is true, very true. But again don't assign the meaning that I think people shouldn't do it just because it changes them. Go ahead, its just some weird mental gymnastics to say that almost the exactly same thing happening.
>>5954282
Well yes the brain is part of the body and a brain couldn't survive without the rest of the body(or some complex synthetic support system that would be as hypothetical as the op) to house and support it but your foot is not as essential to your being, especially as a sentient human in society, as your brain is.
>>5954318
>Once they've gotten over repression and (much) internalized hate, it
...feels like the only sensible course of action (which current medical statistics suggest is the case).
Silly phone.
>>5954326
That said, this hypothetical magic-tech makes mind, identity, and brain entirely negotiable. Any old homeless person can be in any neurological sense Donald Trump, Stephen Hawking, Lady Gaga, or Chez Gueverre on demand, or that any characteristic could be altered without any impact on any other characteristic.
It's why these hypotheticals exist. Magic.
>>5953995
No, I am what I am.
>>5953995
No, I just love being bi
>>5954325
>Don't assign me your view
I was responding to the view espoused in >>5954263 that somehow medical transition and this hypothetical magical pill would be equivalent because they both turn themselves into something that they're not and changes their identity.
I was just pointing out that transition is considered to change the body to match an internal identity rather than changing the identity and the mind/identity has value over the body to some extent especially in human society.
>don't assign the meaning that I think people shouldn't do it just because it changes them
So the only point of talking about "turning into something you're not" was to set up your argument that transition and the hypothetical magic pill are equivalent?
Though the larger point is obviously to get the answer you want to paint trans people as unreasonable and unwilling to try other treatments.
>>5953995
I'd be straight and forever alone in a heartbeat. Fuck being gay. Fuck relationships. Fuck people in general. I just wanna be with my true love, science.
>>5954401
it's not unreasonable to want to change oneself, many people do, in fact most people do.
its strange, as I said, to deny taking a pill, hypothetically, because it would change you, when you are taking a pill, actually, that changes you.
Nope.
>>5954548
Why? The world is just going to get more anti gbt until they're rounded and murdered worldwide.
does it undo your transition progress? if not then fuck no. if so then i'd think about it.
>>5953995
Then we'd all be confirmed with having a mental illness and be treated more like shit and the lgbt community wouldn't 've a thing nor would there be any rights for the lgbt community, and nah it sounds really fuckin lame
MTF trans and no, I'd never want it. Yes, it sucks being trans, very much sometimes, but I'd still take that over being a guy.
>>5954501
Adeptus mecanicus?
>>5953995
Mabye. As long as I get to pick whatever gender and shit I want.
>>5953995
Tranny opinion here
There is really two hypotheticals concerning trannies. First is a OP describes. It makes you cis. We someone figure out what causes gender identify in the brain and alter it. Honestly, most would take it. Transitioning sucks, but we do it because it works and makes life not suck. Being cis is a better alternative. Some might fear having there gender identity change and still transition (especially if puberty blocking is an option) , but it would likely be the minority. This cure will never exist. Never ever.
The second scenario would be a hypothetical cure that could eliminate dysphoria but wouldn't change mental gender identity. This type of treatment is much more feasible to ever exist. You don't have to alter brain structures, just block dysphoric feelings (that are not at all understood currently). If it existed, I think everyone would use the cure to eliminate the horrible mental effects but many would still transition. Those that can't pass could live a functional life (but they would likely be numb, kinda like being on heavy antipsychotics) while others could still seek living like their mental gender.
Let's be clear. These cures DON'T exist and there is no indication from any avenue of research that they will EVER exist.
What about a pill that made you gay? What if you could choose not to deal with women?
>>5954530
Yes and you keep insisting it's completely equivalent however I and others keep trying to point out that changing your internal identity can be more significant than external changes like plastic surgery.
I think most people would agree that radically changing your mind with a pill is more extreme than changing your exterior and valuing the body over the human mind seems strange to me.
To go with the theme of hypothetical scenarios would you rather get your arm chopped off or have to take a pill that would completely change how you think and who you are according to the desires of whoever is forcing you to make the choice? Change your religion, your politics, or change your exterior?
Eh, I'd make myself cis, but not straight. Just enough oppression points to satisfy my special snowflake needs, but a lot less embarrassing and painful than experiencing gender dysphoria.
>>5955007
Also damn, is that the most pornstar-sounding name or what?
As a trans person yeah I would.
>>5954992
I'd take the pill.
>>5953995
Yes well maybe
Fuck I don't like very many women but I want kids really badly
So yes I'd do it
>>5954734
It's literally a choice at that point
Honestly the only people who lose are gays
Any transperson who has actual gender issues and body dysphoria would take it
The people who wouldn't i severely doubt are actually trans
It's quite the literally the choice between having major body issues, anxiety, depression, etc and not having those things
>>5953995
Trans and yes
>>5955129
And unfortunately in the case of homosexuality, the anxiety depression, etc would not be due to being gay but due to societal pressures. In other words, by taking the pill, gay people would be saying if you can't beat them, join them. And the rest of the world would view it as a cure, which implies an illness. Pretty crappy.
>>5953995
I wouldn't. I like being bisexual and falling in love with all kinds of people, makes my life more interesting.
No, I wouldn't.
I just can't find women emotionally attractive. Even if I could find them physically attractive. Personality wise, I have never ever though, "This woman might be alright if she had a dick"
So for sexuality, it's mostly no, for the dysphoric it's more a yes?
>>5955239
The hypothetical situation is that the pill does exactly that. You take it and now you do find them attractive, appearance and personality wise.
>>5955052
So you have no integrity or value in your identity, you'd rather give up everything you believe in than lose an arm.
>>5955976
Five years ago I was not the same person, on more than one level. Five years before that I was a different person as well. Those are flimsy things. I'd rather have both arms, than something that is bound to change again given enough experiences and world experience, but my body I'd like to keep whole. Again, I don't think I have a body, I think I am a body.
I seriously don't get all the condescension towards the trans and gays that wouldn't want to take the pill. It's literal brainwashing. Besides, the fucking thing doesn't even exist.
>>5956093
It's not brainwashing, it's curing a mental illness. You wouldn't call anti-depressants brainwashing, would you?
>>5956112
LOL. Typical. Thank you for proving my point.
But no. Antidepressants and this bullshit magic pill aren't we're talking about aren't at all comparable. One simply enables you to be more capable of coping with your depression, it doesn't cure it. The other replaces your own fundamental sense of identity, personal preferences, desires and possibly even memories for fake ones that society has deemed appropriate. The latter sounds a lot to me like brain washing and if such a pill existed, I'd guarantee you that there would be a plethora of ethical concerns.
And being gay isn't a mental illness. Dysphoria obviously is, but dysphoria =//= gender identity. The DSMV doesn't consider transgender identity in itself to be a mental illness. The more plausible scenario would be a pill that cures the dysphoria but leaves the person's identity intact. Personally, I think it'd be hilarious to see society peddling this pill to transsexuals thinking it'll make them cis when it only cures their dysphoria. The end result being a swath of non op, non hrt trannies happily parading around into women's restrooms and proudly declaring their womynhood.
>>5955989
As you point out, you are your body, and that includes your brain and mind which are probably the most significant parts of significance in human society.
You talk about the entirety of your mental being and identity as a "flimsy thing bound to change" but for humans it is you in the realest sense. Without your mind you're just a pile of meat.
You would rather your brain be wiped blank and be a mindless slave than lose a limb? That's certainly an opinion to have but it's extremely sad and shows no respect for yourself or humanity.
>>5956112
what if i said i didn't want to just take a pill to "cure" my mental illness either? if it was so deeply entangled with my personality and sense of self that without it i'd be an entirely different person, virtually an empty husk?
>>5956310
Funny, I see it the completely opposite. Wanting to lose a limb over identity shows how little respect you have for the human body and humans in general.
Mostly you are a sensory system covered in meat and skin.
How you cover yourself up reveals which parts of your body you are most ashamed of.
The smell of your breath reveals the least meal you ate.
The white in your eyes reveals your objects of desires or fears.
By all intents and purposes you are a walking mannequin with survival instincts evolved over millions of years.
Every five years each atom in your body has been replaced by new atoms, you are never truly you.
Nope. Never. I like being bi. Being hetero just seems so boring to me.
I'm all ready dead inside.
It wouldn't change shit.
>>5953995
Wait a pill that makes me female?
You do realize that this is beat case senerio for would you take x pill to do y
I would take the pill right away
>>5954825
They said the pill makes you what you identify as
So you would be female
>>5953995
I'm ok with my sexuality. I needed way too many years to stop denying it and finally acept it as a part of myself, though. Years ago I would have, because I really wanted to be straight and hated myself for 'not being normal'. But today? nope, I wouldn't take a 'cure'.
