What does /lgbt/ think of Miranda Yardley?
http://genderapostates.com/transgender-ideology-needs-to-change-to-support-women/
http://mirandayardley.com/the-transgender-equality-report/
I think it will ultimately be folks like her who will save trans activism from eating itself.
>>5920256
He's a creepy middle aged man who boast about going into women's rest rooms.
Why would you care about what a second predator says.
>>5920256
End this thing. It isn't human any longer.
>>5920256
>look up his vids
> see him showing down kids and millennial trans with his booming man voice
>scare women by going into their rooms and boast about his social transition despite not passing
Seriously, he's another stephonknee type creep who thinks calling himself a feminist exempts him from moral conduct
>>5920256
Imagine all the poor women's responses when this bearded man goes into their locker rooms and restrooms but says in his man voice it's okay cause he's a feminist
Auntie Tom.
>>5920256
Seriously though, how hard could it be to shave
Poor women are getting traumatized by a crazy old entitled man flouncing in their bathrooms and scaring them. No amount of fighting with kids or saying "its okay I'm a Radfem " will make all the women and girls feel better about a masculine leering pervert
>>5920256
Poor women, having to suffer attacks and nudity from this man-thing
>literally every single reply in the thread is an ad hominem
K.
Her/his politics definitely seem more sober than those of both tumblr and /lgbt/ by a huge margin, I can say that much.
>>5924616
An entitled middle aged man who is very obviously a man with his beard shadow and everything thinking he's exempt from his rules and exposing himself in front of women and children.
That directly contradicts what you and he claim to stand for.
If you're actually interested in protecting women and not just fighting lgbt then you'll care.
TL;DR it's an entire article full of self-hating crap.
Especially the
>To respect feminism, and this includes the ‘second wave'
line, yeah, respect the wave of feminists who campaigned to take away transgender rights, the wave that joined forces with the religious social conservatives to ostracize trans people on a national scale and to take away their health care coverage, leading to the death of god knows how many transsexuals.
I'll sooner be dead and buried than to pay an iota of respect to second wave feminism.
>>5920256
>Transgender Ideology Does Not Support Women
I agree with all 12 points, and I am a passing MtF.
People can make fun of this person all they want on the basis of their appearance and voice, but this merely highlights one of the shallow tenants of the current trans movement.
As someone who studies neuroscience, psychology, and gender theory, it becomes harder and harder for me to continue supporting the popular trans narrative, be it during political discourse, academic exploration, or personal testament.
It does not matter how well I pass or how pretty I am - I am not female. I am a biological male who has mimicked female gender stereotypes to their fullest (aka a passing MtF transsexual). This doesn't necessarily make me a bad person, but pretending I am a woman the same as any woman born female is asinine.
Knowing what I know now, I honestly think our culture should work towards gender equality/neutrality, since gender is an oppressive force against women. A gender neutral society, I hypothesize, would likely see even fewer instances of transsexuality/transgenderism.
>>5926051
>I agree with all 12 points, and I am a passing MtF.\
> how pretty I am
Jesus christ OP, you're transparent as fuck.
Claiming you're suddenly a hon and rehashing the very same stuff from your last threads fools nobody.
>>5926051
>t on the basis of their appearance and voice
Uh, no. A guy looking like Flintstone will horrify women by barging in their spaces.
Claiming otherwise leads to stephoknee and that perv from planet fitness. Yardley just happens to be like them.
>>5926069
Not OP. I don't know what you're going on about, but the fact that you would screencap multiple 4chan posts, highlight them, draw lines connecting them, and put this all together into some larger file... yeah you might want to take a break from this place for a couple weeks. Go outside for a bit, read a book, explore someplace new. Just do something anon. You can't get too wrapped up in this place, it's not healthy.
>>5926087
If you bothered to actually read the posts in the OP then you would know that this Flintstone character does advocate for women to have their own spaces that exclude trans women.
Jesus you people are stupid...
>>5926099
>that exclude trans women.
And yet he goes in them and boasts about living as a woman and having socially transitioned. Exempts himself from his laws.
>>5926099
This is actually funny. Soon as he goes away we get a hon rehashing his usual lines and talking about being pretty. Shitty liar.
>>5926141
I can tell that you're trying to talk shit, but I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. If you want to make a legitimate counterpoint to those in the OP, then take a moment to collect your thoughts, and type them in a clear and concise manner.
If you are this buttflustered with OP or the person linked in the OP, then maybe ignoring them is best for you (or consider that vacation I suggested earlier). You also seem to be unaware that your shit posting only gives this shitty thread bumps.
This is the last (you) you get out of me.
>>5926051
>who has mimicked female gender stereotypes to their fullest
That's sick, that doesn't make you a woman, just some sick caricature that mocks one, and it's old hons who do that worst. At least the people here make it about altering their bodies and not insisting stereotypes make you true.
I despise stereotypes. Whole point of this is to be myself. That's why I don't want anything to do with you people.
Femgen has the right way to do this, take control of your body and change it without ever having to change or give up who you truly are.
>>5926188
Same at all?
He boasts about living as a woman and doing "woman stuff".
>>5924616
There's nothing to answer it with.
>THE EARTH IS FLAT
>IT*S ONLY RAPISTS THAT THINKS IT*S NOT FLAT
How do you intend to answer this? With scientific explanations?
It's quite apparent that anyone that follows this hon, or even thinks this is logical claims, really are not open for any intelligent discussion what so ever.
>>5926191
>same at all
Learn to speak English, and then come back, thank you.
>>5926051
Well said, hon.
You show those people who think they "pass" (*****PROBLEMATIC AND SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED WORD!!!******) better than you.
>>5926190
I can't stop, I mean seriously, it's people like >>5926051 why I avoid those lgbt counseling groups, especially ones full of old hons.
I don't want anything to do with a batch of people who think stereotypes are the only way and that to keep control over my body I've got to give up who I am.
I just want to ensure my body stays fem. I'm not ever going to call myself trans or do things >>5926051 wants
>>5926226
>>5926206
Both of you are total morons. If someone is small, with a soft face, and goes on hormones soon enough, they can pass. And they can still end up with the politics that they are not really female, because they don't have a uterus, or because of their chromosomes, or whatever. I'm not that person, but "gender stereotypes" can mean being as feminine or female as possible, not whatever the hell you idiots think. There's quite a few MTFs who think this way, actually.
>>5926051
>A gender neutral society, I hypothesize, would likely see even fewer instances
If you're going by labels maybe.
But loosening the stigma about this stuff will only lead to more boys taking HRT to be andro.
You already see an example with femgen where liberalized access to meds allows that to happen.
>>5926262
>>who has mimicked female gender stereotypes to their fullest
Nah, you're just shoving stereotypes and caricatures down our throat. Altering your body and making it physically androgynous is something else.
>If someone is small, with a soft face, and goes on hormones soon enough
That's femgen, and they don't act like disgusting stereotypes or demand other people become some stereotype. Nobody will do things your way anymore. You'll be a thing of the past soon.
The hyper feminine acting are nearly all hons or otherwise creepy depersonalized.
>>5926318
What are you even talking about? I'm talking about whether or not MTFs can really change sex and actually be female. They can't. No one is shoving any stereotypes down your throat.
>>5926331
Well hons are probably a different story, but yeah the ultimate result of medicine use is some sort of intersex phenotype.
Granted Hons have near zero phenotype plasticity, so in their case they "mimicked female gender stereotypes to their fullest" and say that makes them true despite being physical men through and through.
Have that with Yardley, >>5926051, and all the hons in every trans group that try and compel everyone into stereotypes and favor stereotypes over body.
>>5926331
Or let me just simplify it, Hons can't alter their body so then insist that acting like a condensed stereotype makes them a "womyn"/true.
Real people can substantially alter it, and they aren't bound by your stereotypes. Can alter your body to ensure it doesn't become a man's but still think of yourself as a boy/dress like one. There's a lot of effeminate gay/bi guys taking HRT and other stuff here.
It's a difference between caricatures versus bodily autonomy and individualism.
>>5926415
>>5926356
>hons aren't real people
lmao ok
Why don't you just go back to femgen? You really don't need to be a hon to realize even with all the cosmetic surgeries they have, MTFs don't become female. Which is Yardley and >>5926051's point, which you already conceded by saying MTFs become intersex. Are you that obnoxious femboy who's on hormones and is obsessed with "people are denying me hormones wah". MTFs being women's spaces does not affect you if you're a stupid boy on drugs, ok? Yardley's larger point is about women's spaces and being a woman, please calm down and shut up about "stereotypes" already, you obtuse broken record. Stop getting mad that some mtfs are ugly, holy shit.
>>5926262
>If someone is small, with a soft face, and goes on hormones soon enough, they can pass. And they can still end up with the politics that they are not really female
Hardly.
If they start soon enough, then they'll have lived as female long enough to not try to feel more female by putting women on a pedestal.
>If someone is small, with a soft face
>they can pass
It's not that easy.
Even if you're small, and have a good face, if your body is typically male, you're simply not gonna pass.
Like you see a ton of asian crossdressers/trans women, who have hips that are even narower than their ribcage.
>>5926171
You should get new smug anime faces, OP. And change your writing style. Maybe then you would be anonymous and not have collage of your posts shoved right back at you...
Anyway for the 12 points. Mostly I believe trans women to be women, but not the need to "caricature" feminity, as this thread put it, so there going to be disagreement regarding that. A little about each point :
1/ Classic "stupid shit that happen on twitter/tumblr/leddit is representative of IRL reality" fallacy. Trans issues are not the focus of IRL feminist activism, whatever your filtered social media bubble tell you... Not even the focus of most sane online feminist outlet. (But surprinsignly that doesn't mean they have to invalidate a minority for that state to be)
2/ People being trans is not a patriarchal plot. Trans women are an oppressed minority. (See 4) The question of neurosexism is only tangentially related to theory of brain-based gender identity.
That is, it can be neurosexist only if you posit the whole brain (or most of it) and its processes contributes to gender identity (Theory which sounds like "I have X, Y, Z mental traits which means i've got a female brain"). On the other hand if your theory is based on a small area with sole "function" that of determining gender identity (theory which sound like, "BSTc brain area has same density X in mtf & cis female"), then the "pink brain doesn't exist" is not relevant. Personally the latter seems more plausible to me.
3/ If you disagree with the classic radfem analysis, and think it is possible to separate gender and gender roles, then you conclude that you don't need to abolish gender to do better as a clutch the nearest available Dworkin book. :^)
4/ See 1; Also denying cis privilege and arguing trans women are a privileged class means disregarding very obvious facts :
>https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/lgbt/news/2010/06/21/7980/gay-and-transgender-youth-homelessness-by-the-numbers/
>http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
>http://www.transequality.org/issues/housing-homelessness
>http://www.nhchc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/in-focus_transgender_sep2014_final.pdf
5/ See 2 on why that's not really relevant.
>>5926478
>MTFs become intersex
Exactly, If they've medically transitioned, then they aren't exactly male or female. But a lot of the younger people like the ones over here who go all the way are closer to female, not very different from women with CAIS.
Yardley and other Hons say that despite being men in body and mind, that acting like caricatures makes them womyn. That's patently ridiculous and contrary to what you claim to believe in.
> "people are denying me hormones wah". you if you're a stupid boy on drugs
I have access to them, but yeah loosing them is a constant worry and cause the whole dress like a boy and say you're one thing, we're also the first people who would lose access to them with the tightened access to HRT that Yardley and Radfems call for.
Think about it, it's kinda sick. Saying I'm a boy, which is something we could all in theory agree to shouldn't warrant my losing control over my body and people like yardley either trying to turn my body masculine or forcing me to act like some stereotype and say I'm something I'm not.
Your ideology is self contradictory.
>>5926478
It took eight replies to finally get a response from someone with the ability for reading comprehension and with a fundamental grasp of biology.
There is no shortage of delusional retards in this thread flinging their shit, and this is indicative of how the current trans movement treats anyone who doesn't drink their specific flavor of Kool-Aide. It's a complete joke, and anyone with a moderate level of critical thinking skills and a basic understanding of biology should be able to see right through it.
6/ Describe your experiences anyway you want for all I care. There is no reason to drop "cis", except to erase trans women. Also it's not even pejorative.
7/ I'm totally OK with womyn-born-womyn festivals like michfest, or places/association/... if people think they need them. Don't think that should lead to excluding trans people from toilets or facility of daily life. (Though anecdotally, from what my cis friends say, if an event is explicitly trans-inclusive, it also tend to make the atmosphere inclusive in general)
8/ I'm all for dropping the AGPhile. As a late transitioner she would be first on the day of the purge, though :^)
9/ I think the consensus is there should be no coercion, and there's no problem with not liking the D, or the masculine physique of some trans women; but that seems mostly a manufactured outrage, IRL cis women can reject mtf using false motive, and mtf hordes don't hound you for that. And cis/trans couple do exist. We also have weekly threads with that subject.
10/ More of the I-make-a-collage-of-stupid-people-on-twitter/tumblr-to-prove-a-point fallacy. Won't drop TERF as it's a pretty descriptive word. See also 12.
11/ Arguably trans folk have even less of a platform than TERF. (Classic example of Greer that complained of censoship where she had many time had printed press plaform to express her ideas)
12/ Consider that there are most probably passing trans women who transitioned at 18 and are now 40+ y.o. (Even if you argue there aren't, consider the thought experiment). For 20 years they have had the same social interaction an identical cis person would have had. You can define this experience away by using childhood+uterus but to most that would appear to be special pleading. (Though fresh off transition mtf should probably refrain from speaking of the experience of being a woman. Like a learner permit sortof deal.)
>>5920256
I read her write up of Caitlyn Jenner's coming out. It was pretty good.
>>5926563
>femfags = trans comunity
>condemn 'grotesque stereotypes make you a womyn' being shoved down people's throats
Nah, getting called for your hypocrisy isn't the trans movement doing shit.
>>5926568
>>5926568
Kinda a don't' practice what you preach thing though.
He's an entitled man who just like Bruce lived 50+ years as a man and that preaching morality makes him above scrutiny.
It's not right that he won't even bother to do anything with the sixoclock shadow but still barges into women's restrooms to leer at them.
He's just like Jenner with his bible thumping and Ted Cruz shit.
>>5926518
>then they'll have lived as female long enough to not try to feel more female by putting women on a pedestal.
They're not XX or have a uterus, or have any the right body frame, etc etc. And yes, they can still end up with their personal politics being "I'm not a female." Get over it.
>>5926560
>Yardley and other Hons say that despite being men in body and mind, that acting like caricatures makes them womyn
Yardley literally says she is not a woman, stop lying because you're mad she's ugly and non-passing.
>tightened access to HRT
No it's tightened access to women's spaces, no more legal identity changes, and no kids transitioning. Those are the usual radfem things. Banning or restricting access to HRT is not actually discussed.
>>5926478
>>5926640
>Banning or restricting access to HRT is not actually discussed.
Yardlyey mentioned it and look at your sites, radfems all lobbied against WPATH7 because it was too liberal on access to HRT and endorsed Informed Consent. Radfems also work with groups like the ACPeds when those also want to ban treatment.
>Are you that obnoxious femboy who's on hormones and is obsessed with "people are denying me hormones wah"
Seriously, if they do tighten access to hormones, then I could very well be forced into becoming MtF to keep control over my body.
How could you actually support people who want that when you don't like MtFs and don't want any more of them? I don't want to compromise who I am to keep my body and that should be simple enough to respect.
>>5926640
>no kids transitioning
>no legal identity changes
It's almost like TERFs want us all to get fucked up by male puberty and socialization while having no legal recognition whatsoever. That way they'll have an easier time spotting us and treating us like monsters so we can wind up with a laundry list of mental health issues and off ourselves before 30.
>>5926669
Because informed consent is bad politics. How informed is actually informed?
>How could you actually support people who want that when you don't like MtFs and don't want any more of them? I don't want to compromise who I am to keep my body and that should be simple enough to respect.
Honestly, the idea of a man taking HRT to stay "young" is pretty unbelievable in the first place, so I don't know what to tell you. It's not like your situation is well-known - besides here, I have never seen anyone talk about doing what you're doing. I would be fine with removing social transition entirely and then you could keep your drugs, but I think radfems oppose them because they see it as changing healthy tissue. Idk, though. I usually only see them complaining about surgery, not hormones. So I don't know what they'd say.
>>5926686
>legal changes
They're opposed to social transition, what do you expect?
>no kids transitioning
Half the time the reasons listed for kids transitioning is "I played with barbies, so I'm a girl!"
>treating us like monsters
MTFs have the biggest victim complex.
>>5926710
> Banning or restricting access to HRT is not actually discussed
>Because informed consent is bad politics. How informed is actually informed?
Hypocrite. The only other alternative to IC is a system that strips it's patients of their will and individualism and forces them to act like some sick old man's idea of what women are like.
> I think radfems oppose them because they see it as changing healthy tissue
You realize the same thing could be said about contraceptives (which use unnatural derivatives of bioidenticall hormones) or surgical abortion.
If you think it's right to block people from anything that alters "natural" tissue then those are no different.
Abortion and contraceptives are handed out via Informed Consent too, even though the xenoestrogen contraceptives are far more dangerous with the risk of blood clot. We don't consider it justified to strip patients of their will, you wouldn't consideer it right if a therapist forced any woman who wanted contraceptive or abortions to become a stepford wife.
Why should this be any different?
>>5926740
>Half the time the reasons listed for kids transitioning is "I played with barbies, so I'm a girl!"
>302.85 Gender Identity Disorder in Adolescents
>1. a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (or, in young adolescents, the anticipated secondary sex characteristics) [13, 16]
>2. a strong desire to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked incongruence with one’s experienced/expressed gender (or, in young adolescents, a desire to prevent the development of the anticipated secondary sex characteristics) [17]
>3. a strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender
Idiot, you've got the biggest victim complex of all.
>>5926765
>The only other alternative to IC is a system that strips it's patients of their will and individualism and forces them to act like some sick old man's idea of what women are like.
Or you could get those brain scans going, really check those male and female brains out!
>You realize the same thing could be said about contraceptives (which use unnatural derivatives of bioidenticall hormones) or surgical abortion.
*shrug* I'm guessing at their reasoning. I don't actually know what it is.
>>5926786
I know so many MTFs who transitioned and said gender clinics said they needed to act feminine to be taken seriously. And I have read plenty of articles where a child's choice of toy is emphasized as one of the reasons the kid was trans. And, besides that, that doesn't allow for girls who develop poor body image due to misogyny, or any child who is suffering because of sexual abuse. You know what a victim complex means right?
>>5926827
>Or you could get those brain scans going, really check those male and female brains out!
Do actually have an abnormally high 2d:4d, so actually have a good shot of "passing" that test, but really, it's absurd to keep people from having control over their bodies.
>*shrug* I'm guessing at their reasoning. I don't actually know what it is.
I've heard the teleological arguments before from them and other leftists opposed to bodily autonomy so it makes sense.
>I know so many MTFs who transitioned and said gender clinics said they needed to act feminine to be taken seriously
That's exactly the sort of sick system you'd be forcing people in by getting rid of IC.
>And I have read plenty of articles where a child's choice of toy
You should trust the guidelines not some inept journalist. They screen for body dysmorphia with adolescents, look for things like eating disorders/self harm and stuff because they don't like what's going on with their bodies.
And that's just for getting reversible and safe meds that delay things.
>>5926710
>It's not like your situation is well-known - besides here
It isn't that unusual, it's not just something here or in the net, but I've also met at least one other gay guy who did the same IRL.
It's probably more common than you think cause a lot of people have admitted to "lying" to get meds/be pretty. It's just that in the past and in areas without a good IC infrastructure, people are probably just forced to say they're trans rather than be their selves.
I don't know if you can relate with this, but there's such a thing as not wanting to end up with the sort of body grown men have, and maybe not seeing yourself as being the same as them but still thinking of yourself as some sort of male and being comfortable in dressing like one.
The stuff you advocate for makes it harder to do that
>>5920256
I only know of this dude (if he thinks he's a man, I'll respect his identity) because he's internet stalked and harassed some trans friends...
Probably was gross to women pre-trans. Instead now he's just gross to trans women. I think there's some cross-over with being a chaser there: a mixture of jealousy and attraction to young transitioners, trying to spite them by advocating they shouldn't have access to transition. But idk
>>5926051
I agree with a lot of the points and I would never say we're the same as cis women. But radfems don't reveal all their crazy up front. They dish it out in bits and pieces, so it seems more reasonable.
Isn't he the one that raped someone?
>>5926051
>since gender is an oppressive force against women.
It is much more oppressive against males: forced draft (in my country), raised social/economical expectations, social acceptance of male bullying, social acceptance of males working (and dying) on hard jobs (mining, construction, emergency response, hard factory jobs). Female oppression is almost nothing compared to that, literally a life on easy mode. Given that males have really built this society from the ground up it even looks fair to me that some males can emulate female gender and reap all the benefits.
Yes, I think a society without forced gender stereotypes would be great, but for now if you want to you should be able to change your gender. Because it is unfair that women reap most benefits of the civilization created by men.
That being said I'm not trans at all, completely ok with my male body. But the whole unfairness of gendered culture/wealth redistribution disgusts me.
>>5926226
You are a hero, anon! People really should have total control over their bodies. Our bodies are literally our property. An owner should be able to make any decisions regarding his property.
>>5927550
>It is much more oppressive against males: forced draft (in my country), raised social/economical expectations, social acceptance of male bullying, social acceptance of males working (and dying) on hard jobs (mining, construction, emergency response, hard factory jobs). Female oppression is almost nothing compared to that, literally a life on easy mode. Given that males have really built this society from the ground up it even looks fair to me that some males can emulate female gender and reap all the benefits.
but that shit ain't regulated by women, it's men literally enforcing that shit on other men. Who bullies fem guys? Masc guys in their jock cliques, who only hires men to work on hard job? Men. Who has the higher interest in working on hard jobs? Men. When it comes to the army, men weaponize and dispose of their male soldiers. Men actively allow and even cater to women and baby them. If you want true equality, every man has to stop shitting on each other like that and force women to take care of themselves and make them perform to the standards that men do.
>>5927594
It'll never happen. Their biology and socialization inhibits them from performing on the same level as males. That's just the reality of the situation. Even in the military, standards are lowered for females because most couldn't hack it otherwise. Can you imagine the feminist backlash if women were conscripted into combat roles and expected to serve on the front lines with males while also being held to the same standards? They might pretend that they're up for it at first, but when shit hits the fan and they start seeing real casualties, I guarantee you they'll be clamorimg to GTFO. They can barely stomach the idea sharing a bathroom with a tranny, what makes you think they'll be able to handle sharing spaces with actual men in the field under conditions 1000x more stressful where the risk of sexual assault is much more highly pronunced?
Let's face it: most women do not want to held to the same standards as men. They're intimidated, both by men and the tremendous responsibilities society places onto them. They'll never admit it, of course, but the majority want to be placated and protected, yet they also want to be respected in the same ways males are.
As long as sex dimorphism exists among humans, we will never see true gender equality.
>>5927762
>It'll never happen. Their biology and socialization inhibits them from performing on the same level as males.
Their biology is not as physically strong as males but they can be put to work. It's the socialization that's the issue.
If women in third world countries can be scared into behaving like 2nd class citizens and work horses in sweatshops, they're more than capable of doing the heavy lifting stuff or fighting in wars.
Have you seen the Israeli's female army division? American women are shit because we raise them to be princesses. Stop with the princess shit, stop enabling them, stop holding their hand, stop treating them like kids, and tell them to take care of themselves and the majority will.
Women act the way they do because men will bend over backwards to accomodate them. Those lax military standards for females? Fucking bullshit, they shouldn't have done that in the first place. Sure you cull a huge amount of the already small female soldier numbers, but if they can't cut it, they can't be on the front line or humored to be on the front line. You just can't do that in serious situations like that and I don't know why the military allows that kind of bullshit.
The worst enemy here isn't the feminists getting their way, it's the pussywhipped bitches that let this shit happen or even think that it's okay to let this happen and give lazy stupid bitches compensation when they shouldn't have even enlisted in the first place.
You can train a dog, you can train a man, you sure as hell can train a woman. Get over the fact that she's a female socialized to be a princess and you can shape her into a decent worker.
>>5920256
i thought that's AIDS skrillex for a second
>>5927762
>Their biology and socialization inhibits them from performing on the same level as males.
A story here from the great Sun Tzu:
http://www.cmmmagazine.com/blogs/duc-phams-blog/duc-pham-september/
>I remember the story about Sun Tzu being challenged by a warlord to apply his famous war doctrine to train 180 women from the warlord’s palace into an orderly company.
> Among the women, two were the warlord’s favourite concubines.
>Sun Tzu divided the women into two groups and put a concubine in command of each.
>Sun Tzu then set the women a simple drill and made sure they understood what to do.
>However, when he started ordering them to perform the drill, the women burst out in laughter.
>He tried again with the same result.
>Sun Tzu claimed that this failure of the troops to obey was the fault of the commanders.
>So, despite the warlord’s pleas, he ordered the two concubines beheaded as an example for the rest of the company.
>Thereafter, the women did not utter a single sound and performed the drill exactly as commanded.
you can get women to do anything. Just stop treating them like princesses
