>wouldn't it be easier to just make the dysphria go away?

Maybe early on, but now it's a political identify and will fiercely defend it's 'civil rights'.

>>5868102
It would be the ideal solution, but so far, in all the decades of research there's been on the issue, nobody has found a medication that works to make dysphoria go away. As a result the only possibly care is to cope with it by catering to the feelings as much as possible. Like how they built that whole town just for people with Alzheimer's in Denmark. It's sad, but with no actual cure available, the only care possible is palliative. But yes, if there was a pill to make the dysphoria just stop so we could live as our birth sex comfortably, the vast majority of transgender people except the most ridiculous SJWs would take it.

>>5868102
>wouldn't it be easier to just make the dysphria go away? shouldn't be that hard right? people can make anxiety or bipolar go away,

Except noone knows how and dysphoria may very well have its roots essentially in brain damage. Assuming the neurological aspects of GID that we know are correct, you would literally have to regrow(mtf) or shrink(ftm) brain matter. The only thing psychotropic drugs do is manipulate neurotransmitters which have next to nothing to do with gender identity.
I'm bipolar too and its even less treatable than dysphoria, so that analogy is bad.

>>5868122
>mfw had hypoxic brain damage at birth
>mfw mtf
well shit

>wouldn't it be easier to just make the dysphria go away?
Turns out it's currently impossible.

>>5868102
>wouldn't it be easier to just make the dysphria go away?

Absolutely not. Gender dysphoria itself isn’t a disorder so much as a reaction to the actual disorder, which is having an intersex brain. It’s not just the part of the brain that self-identifies gender but the ENTIRE brain that more or less matches the brains of the identified rather than the birth-assigned gender. It’s not just ‘I think I’m a woman’, but rather ‘a woman’s brain trapped in a man’s body’, while a gross oversimplification, is at its core accurate.

you can't really compare neurological disorders to physical ailments when it comes to "curing" a problem.
how many people base their identity around having a bacterial infection? i wouldn't say nobody because i know there are some people out there who are like that, but very, very few.
but when a person's neurology, disordered or not, plays such a ubiquitous role in their sense of self, to cure a neurological disorder is to kill off part of a person's identity.
i would posit that that could be a dangerous thing to do and could trigger the onset of far more debilitating mental health problems, eg dissociative disorders.
you can't compare the treatment of physical ailments to the treatment of neurological disorders.

>>5868102
I don't think any transgender person would be transgender if they had the choice. Ask any of them, dysphoria is a living hell and honestly transitioning isn't always a cure but it helps. If there was a magic pill they could take to make it go away I would take it in a heart beat but nothing is that easy. You just do what you can, just like anything else.

I think antipsychotics have been shown to reduce dysphoric feelings in people with GID.

>>5868669
I have a friend who was prescribed antipsychotics before (not for dysphoria, for something else)and he was absolutely miserable when he was on them.

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>>5868669

>>5868102
>wouldn't it be easier to just make the dysphria go away?
That's what the female hormones, androgen blockers, and transitioning are literally for.

>>5868102
The root of gender dysphoria is within a fundamental mismatch between the brain and the body. So far, the body is a lot easier to change than the brain so treatment intended to bring alignment swings that way and will likely continue to do so with slow but incremental progress. Its also ideally within the patient's interest because they'd rather be a woman/man than a man/woman.

>>5868721
>Wikipedia
>source is one sketchy case study with literally one patient who, according to the author, had "questionable gender dysphoria"

Seems legit.

>>5868102
>dysphoria is a disorder
>that means you can treat it exactly the same way as an arbitrary different disorder and get the same results
this is why you are not a doctor

>>5868762
shhhhh my teacher said wikipedia works as one of my 3 required sources

I've given at least a dozen reasonable, well-written responses to this same fucking question and I swear to god, I'm never doing it again. Waste of time. I've learned my lesson.

>>5868113
>Decades of research
I highly doubt that, no one in this political climate would ever fund research into a treatment for gender dysphoria

>>5868669
[citation needed]

>>5868799
Finding an actual reliable treatment or cure for gender dysphoria (aside from transitioning) would be a huge medical breakthrough. If negative gender dysphoric feelings could just be gotten rid of by taking a pill, do you really think drug companies wouldn't want to hop on that? Hormones are cheap and generic. It's not like AstraZeneca or Pfizer are making a killing off of trans people transitioning...

>>5868872
I should have said SOME hormones are cheap and generic. Obviously not all, and not all formulations.

>>5868166
>base their identity off a bacterial infection
It's funny you say that because the most likely cause of homosexuality is a parasite infection

>>5868872
Or they could just sell the antidepressents that those people would otherwise use

>>5869126


lots of mtfs are on antidepressants and very very very very very few became non trans from taking it.


fuck off back to gaygen.

>>5868102
The problem is the culture of medicine in which the patient is telling the doctor what to do is amplified and now legally protected in some states when it comes to dysphoria. Most people with dysphoria have this hard-lined notion that they can only be treated with HRT and refuse to accept any alternatives to the point of buying black-market hormones to do it themselves while maligning counselling and other "transition barriers".

There were already problems with men demanding Viagra because their wife wasn't hot despite not having ED, and those kinds of issues were made worse with the popularity of medical dramas on TV and self-diagnosis websites. Now, you have things like in the generals which provide direct paths to clinics that essentially let the patient tell them what to do. It's in the same vein as "medical marijuana clinics" now. You're going there because you have problem X, and you /want/ (not need) treatment Y, even if it might not be the most effective treatment there is.

>>5868152
[citation needed]

>>5868732
So then why are there so many who do this and still are not better to the point of committing suicide? Why are some alternative treatments successful? What medical background do you have for this assertion?

>>5868872
Big pharma isn't in the business for cures.

Pharmaceuticals would rather sell monthly pills and situational "oops" pills than provide a long-term solution for birth control. Just look at how birth control tanked when IUDs flooded the market.

They'd rather make you take your skittles on a regular basis because it's more money. :^)

>>5869147
>even if it might not be the most effective treatment there is.
But at the moment HRT is the most effective treatment, and people are getting on it illegally because the current route to getting a prescription for it is ridiculous, especially in europe.

In Europe, it's actually really common practice that you not be allowed on HRT unless you have already been living fulltime as the other gender for a long time, which is moronic, doesn't make any sense, and in a lot of cases is dangerous if you live in places with little tolerance for LGBT communities.

>>5868102
>normally doctors give you antibiotics or some shit, and yet for dyshpria they give you female hormones, silicone implants, and tell you to cross dress and change your name?
I have a question for the trans people of this board. Do doctors actually tell you to socially transition, or do they just prescribe HRT and social transition is something you choose to do on your own?

>
wouldn't it be easier to just make the dysphria go away? shouldn't be that hard right? people can make anxiety or bipolar go away, why not a feeling about one's body? why you have to chop your dick off to treat this feeling?
Because it's a different medical condition. We don't have a direct cure yet, and current theories suggest we aren't really anywhere near finding one either.

>>5868669
*a person with GID

>>5868778
Wikipedia usually is pretty accurate. And that article isn't exactly wrong - it doesn't claim pimozide is effective or widely used to treat GD. What's wrong is falsely extrapolating from that and taking it as evidence that it's a good treatment for GD.

>>5869147
>So then why are there so many who do this and still are not better to the point of committing suicide?
Do you happen to have a source comparing pre and post HRT suicide rates? Just because some people still commit suicide afterwards isn't by itself evidence that treatment is ineffective.

>Why are some alternative treatments successful?
Which alternative treatments are you referring to?

>What medical background do you have for this assertion?
That anon may not have a medical background, however what they're talking about is considered the appropriate treatment by the vast majority of medical professionals. If you want to argue with them, logic dictates that you need to have some evidence of your own.

>>5869172
Who's to say the gender dysphoria cure wouldn't need to be taken regularly, rather than being a one-time thing? And it would also be able to be sold for a much higher price due to rarity and cost of production. That said, trans people are rare enough that I don't think they can really be relied on as a significant source of income for the drug companies.

>>5868113
>nobody has found a medication that works to make dysphoria go away

this seems to be the assumption, I read about that in reddit as well.

but, most children with dysphoria grow out of it. A lot of people with continuing dysphoria go on to live normal lives.

It just strikes me that there is this attitude towards dysphoria, that if you show the slightest sign of it, suddenly there's all this pressure coming from everywhere to "take hormones get on puberty blocks RACE AGAINST TIME PUBERTY WILL DESTROY YOUR BODY YOU WILL KILL YOURSELF CHOP YOUR DICK OFF NOW NOW NOW NOW"

Like hold on a minute. You can't just assume that absolutely nothing will treat your dysphoria, except hormones and transgenderism. Like I read these kids on reddit, ask about their dysphoria, and all the advice is "get on hormones right now your body will be ruined by puberty you'll never pass and you're going to die, nothing will ever help your dysphoria but these serious medications, the doctors are gatekeeprs they aren't there to help, you are going to die from suicide and the doctors are stopping you they don't care about you, the only thing that will help is hormone replacement therapy the doctors are stupid".

I mean how do they know that? Especially since most kids in the stats actually grow out of their dysphoria. They don't know nothing will help unless you actually try it, so why do they say suicide is inevitable basically?

They concept is insane when you think about it. You're telling a young confused kid essentially, that they are going to die of suicide. Maybe the kid wasn't even thinking of suicide, they never even contemplated it, but now people are saying it's a definite inevitable thing in their future UNLESS THEY TAKE HORMONES AND BECOME A TRANSGENDER

suicide isn't inevitable, and you don't know nothing will work for your dysphoria unless you actually try it all. and honestly the idea that your body is going to be "ruined' by the natural process of puberty is disguting

>>5869126
Yeah, anti-depressants never did shit for my dysphoria, nor did any other medication I've ever been on, and I've tried quite a few. No therapy ever made me stop being trans, and believe me, I wanted it to. I held off on starting to transition for like 15 fucking years and attempted to "fix" myself in every way possible, and literally nothing worked. I only started transitioning after I tried to kill myself and failed because I figured I had nothing left to lose, and it was the best decision I've ever made.

>>5869172
"Big pharma" likes to be able to roll out new, fancy, expensive, brand-name treatments. Do you honestly think they're making big bucks off of generic hormones? Because they aren't. I mean, I'm not sure what other people here are taking, but I'm on generic testosterone that's $25/month out of pocket from a compounding pharmacy...

Also, like another poster above said, I highly doubt that the treatment would end up being something like a one-time vaccine. I was imagining something more like a medication you'd take on a regular basis, like an antidepressant or antipsychotic. Even if it was a vaccine, it'd still start out as a brand-name treatment ($$$). Look at Gardasil (not at the conspiracy theory shit, just at the sheer amount of profit Merck made off of it).

I'm not going to touch the whole giving kids puberty blockers thing because I have no experience with that whatsoever and am not very informed on the matter.

>>5871534
>but, most children with dysphoria grow out of it. A lot of people with continuing dysphoria go on to live normal lives.
[citation needed]

>>5868152
complete and utter SJW bullshit nonsense. fuck off.

>>5869986
It's a bit of both. The therapist that I saw didn't push me to socially transition, but that's what I wanted so. She said some people don't socially transition at all, and just do hrt. Hope that answers your question

>>5868166
>you can't compare the treatment of physical ailments to the treatment of neurological disorders.

actually I can, because neurology relates to the brain, and the brain is physical -> it's made of cells and connections. A "neurological disorder" means a disorder of those physical cells, or of the connections between them

>>5868732
no it's not.

those things don't really treat the dysphoria - which is the actual problem. female hormones, androgen blockers, and transitioning is a civil political process. It's to do with an identity, and a social class.

You have people that are invested, with an agenda, to push an idea. And that idea is that dysphoria isn't the problem in itself, but rather dysphoria is a symptom of the REAL problem, which is that the person was born with right brain, and the wrong body. That's the ideology being pushed. It has no real basis in the science. It's not even possible, an makes no sense to be 'born in the wrong body', as if at the human factory a worker got his bodies mixed up and put the brain in the wrong one. it's stupid, absurd even.

and now you have young people, early teens and even younger, being fed this idea that their body is wrong, and it's getting ruined by a natural process called puberty. And that if they don't get on them as fast as possible, they will die by suicide.

transgenderism is necessarily political, because it relates to gender and identity. it's not a medical treatment, like antibiotics.

young people are being told to not listen to their doctors, to treat all doctors and parents and anyone who tries to actually care for them, as "gatekeepers" - people denying them access to their suicide prevention meds basically, BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO DIE!!!1 There is even encouragement and advice on how to self-med, with potentially dangerous, strerility inducing drugs. Sterility and permanent body changes is a big fucking deal. So is getting rid of the name your parents gave you.

I'm not against transgenderism. What I think though is that it should be a last resort sort of thing. In the same way electroconvulsive therapy is used as a least resort for depression. People showing signs of gender confusion, or crossdressing, or with an interest in hair and makeup sure as hell do not need these serious drugs.

>>5869986
>Do you happen to have a source comparing pre and post HRT suicide rates?

not him but this might be relevant

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

>>5871803
>And that idea is that dysphoria isn't the problem in itself, but rather dysphoria is a symptom of the REAL problem, which is that the person was born with right brain, and the wrong body. That's the ideology being pushed
The "ideology" is that the brain and body are incompatible. Logic dictates that we should focus on changing whichever one is more easily fisable.

>It's not even possible, an makes no sense to be 'born in the wrong body', as if at the human factory a worker got his bodies mixed up and put the brain in the wrong one. it's stupid, absurd even.
It's entirely possible for abnormalities to occur in development. Calling it absurd is nothing more than an appeal to incredulity.

>transgenderism is necessarily political, because it relates to gender and identity. it's not a medical treatment, like antibiotics.
It's both. Being disabled is a similar category - it's a medical condition, but there's a lot of political issues that go along with it.

>young people are being told to not listen to their doctors, to treat all doctors and parents and anyone who tries to actually care for them, as "gatekeepers"
Usually the doctors are the ones who advice transition or at least going on HRT/blockers. And the parents shouldn't really be the ones to make medical decisions, especially when they value ideology over the health of their children.

>People showing signs of gender confusion, or crossdressing, or with an interest in hair and makeup sure as hell do not need these serious drugs.
Being gender non conforming does not by itself constitute a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. And most people realize that.

>>5871823
That's the well known "Swedish study". It doesn't address HRT, just SRS, and furthermore doesn't make any mention of the pre-SRS suicide rate, just comparing the post-SRS suicide rate to the general (non-trans) population.

>>5871688
>citation needed for most children growing out of gender dypshoria

The sense of discomfort resulting from incongruence between gender identity and assigned sex is
often referred to as gender dysphoria (Fisk, 1973). Currently, gender dysphoria is an important
aspect of the psychiatric diagnosis of a Gender Identity Disorder (GID) (DSM-IV-TR; American
Psychiatric Association, 2000; but see Meyer-Bahlburg, 2009). The majority of adolescents and

2 Clinical Child Psychology and Psychiatry
adults who meet the criteria for GID, retrospectively report the presence of gender dysphoric feelings
dating back to childhood (e.g., Blanchard, 1988; Green, 1974; Freund, Langevin, Satterberg
& Steiner, 1977; Smith, Goozen, Kuiper & Cohen-Kettenis, 2005; Zucker, Mitchell, Bradley,
Tkachuk, Cantor & Allin, 2006). Interestingly, the prospective literature on gender dysphoric children
shows that gender dysphoria in childhood does not irrevocably result in gender dysphoria or
GID in adolescence and adulthood. Feelings of gender dysphoria persisted into adolescence in only
39 out of 246 of the children (15.8%) who were investigated in a number of prospective follow-up
studies (Bakwin, 1968; Davenport, 1986; Drummond, Bradley, Peterson-Badali & Zucker, 2008;
Green, 1987; Kosky, 1987; Lebovitz, 1972; Money & Ruso, 1979; Wallien & Cohen-Kettenis,
2008; Zucker & Bradley, 1995; Zuger, 1984). Although the persistence rates differed between the
various studies (2% to 27%), the results unequivocally showed that the gender dysphoria remitted
after puberty in the vast majority of children.
Because the previously mentioned prospective studies primarily focused on determining persistence
or desistence of gender dysphoria

>https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peggy_Cohen-Kettenis/publication/49738851_Desisting_and_persisting_gender_dysphoria_after_childhood_a_qualitative_follow-up_study/links/09e4150655d20a7ec1000000.pdf

>>5868110
>Maybe early on, but now it's a political identify and will fiercely defend it's 'civil rights'.
Yeah the evil sjw feminist jew conspiracy just destroyed all the evidence of the easy simple 100% effective cure! :^)

>>5871849
there's not much literature for hrt and suicide. Are there any articles for the idea that post hrt suicide rates are lower after hrt?

I found this
> Sixty-two percent of the male-to-female and 55% of the female-to-male transgender persons were depressed; 32% of each population had attempted suicide.

here
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1446468/

which I assume all those trans people were on hrt. doesn't look good, at least for that specific population

>>5868799
So you're assuming that no past research could have happened because of the current political climate?
wut

You can just look up what research has been done, the internet is a tool, use it.

>>5869115
>le /pol/ conspiracy theory maymay XD

>>5871534
>most children with dysphoria grow out of it
Based on a study that counted ALL gender atypical behavior as trans rather than just those with actual diagnosed dysphoria and counted all cases that they lost contact with as having had stopped transition.

You need better bait, maybe try to find a study other than the same old ones that trolls always trot out and don't actually say/show what they want.

>>5871846
>The "ideology" is that the brain and body are incompatible. Logic dictates that we should focus on changing whichever one is more easily fisable.

This is fundamentally flawed idea. How about instead of any of that shit, we instead try and get the patient to understand or accept or feel that their body and their mind are NOT incompatible. There is nothing physiologically wrong with transgender people. Their bodies work fine. The problem is the dysphoria, which is being treated through changing the body so the patient doesn't hate themselves. Well instead of that why doesn't someone sit down with these people and get them to understand that, or give them therapy or some shit, so that they realize nothing is wrong with them. their body is not incompatible with their brain at all. their body works fine, and they should like it.

honestly it's like treating an anorexic with liposuction. it's absolutely insane.

I come to this from a nursing angle, I am a nurse, and this whole treatment is completely at odds with the basis of medicine. we should be helping these people, not damaging their perfectly functionable bodies to appease their body image issues.

It's absurd. These people have perfectly healthy bodies. There is no reason to take on the surgical risks, and the risks and side effects of hrt, to appease what is fundamentally a disease of the mind. If the dysphoria patient could just be made, to realize that there's nothing wrong with them and there's no mismatch, then that would be faaaaar better. I don't want to see people die getting these surgeries, or have complications, or become sterile, or all the other horrible shit that necessarily follows invasive treatment and medication therapies.

why can't the dysphoric patient be taught that they can wear what clothes they like, and have their hair however they want, and wear whatever makeup they want, WITHOUT the need to risk serious complications?

>>5871846
>ssible for abnormalities to occur i

yes but abnormalities, is necessarily normative, that is, dependent on what population is decided to be "the normal", which is a necessarily political decision.

medicating a perfectly healthy person with powerful drugs, and invasive therapies IS absurd. And goes entirely against the ethos of "do no harm".

>>5871990
>why can't the dysphoric patient be taught that they can wear what clothes they like, and have their hair however they want, and wear whatever makeup they want, WITHOUT the need to risk serious complications?
Because all available research and statistics show that it is not enough and physical dysphoria is a huge factor with no better available treatment than transition.

You desperately wanting things to be different and thinking they "should be" based on your personal incredulity and distaste built on a limited understanding of medicine does not alter the state of the actual medical and scientific research and facts.

>>5871990
>why can't the dysphoric patient be taught that they can wear what clothes they like, and have their hair however they want, and wear whatever makeup they want, WITHOUT the need to risk serious complications?
REEEEEEE
I did that for over a decade and I still wanted to kill myself, you fuck.

>>5871855

>Adolescents with persisting
gender dysphoria (persisters) and those in whom the gender dysphoria remitted (desisters)
indicated that they considered the period between 10 and 13 years of age to be crucial.

Basically, if you're trans after puberty, you're generally trans for life. "tru-trans" children generally should be put on blockers until after 13, not on hormones.

>>5871748
it has physical origins but the distinction being made is that a neurological disorder impacts a person's sense of self far more than a physical disorder does.
that's why they're not comparable, dumbass.

>>5871990
Talk therapy has already been tried, and is often done alongside HRT, but by itself doesn't work. Because the ultimate cause is the brain being incompatible with the body's natural hormones. It's the equivalent of saying you can write a program that will let your computer print documents using orange juice instead of ink. People can't be talked out of dysphoria because it's not a misunderstanding, it's not just people thinking that they can't be a feminine man.

>why can't the dysphoric patient be taught that they can wear what clothes they like, and have their hair however they want, and wear whatever makeup they want, WITHOUT the need to risk serious complications?
The "serious complications" come from the dysphoria itself, and if anything are worsened by avoiding HRT.

>medicating a perfectly healthy person with powerful drugs, and invasive therapies IS absurd. And goes entirely against the ethos of "do no harm".
People with gender dysphoria are not "perfectly healthy", and leaving them untreated seems to go directly against "do no harm". Just asserting that it's absurd without offering any further argument is literally an appeal to incredulity; just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't work. Exposing people to ionizing radiation seems absurd, but it's used in the medical profession as well.