How about instead of pretending trannies arent mentally ill we stop stigmatizing mental illness?
>>5674114
>stop stigmatizing mental illness
>bipoler pride parade is on
>bipolar pride parade got cancelled
>bipolar pride parade is on again
>bipoler pride paread got cancelled
>>5674129
LOL as a bipolar person that made me laugh.
Can kinda see that happening too.
>>5674114
Will never happen.
>>5674114
>pretending trannies arent mentally ill
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. Only trannies with other mental illnesses and people who don't understand dysphoria say trannies are a-ok in the head.
t. MtF
>>5674114
>Implying you can control what does or doesn't get stigmatized
>>5674114
I agree 100%
>>5674114
ugh it's honestly very problematic that your still clinging onto outdated ideas completely unsupported by any science
>>5674114
>>5674733
the whole "lol trans is a mental illness" think pol loves to shitpost about is more a matter of buzzwords than an actual argument against transition.
is gender dysphoria a mental illness? technically yes, since it's a disorder originating from mental incongruence with the body.
does that mean you can lump it in with other mental illnesses that have nothing to do with it? no thats retarded and not even remotely how psychology works.
>>5674129
Depressive pride parade canceled. We're not feeling well today.
>>5680915
Obsessive compuslive pride par.. Oh god, you fucked up your greentext! FIXI T FIX IT FIXIT!
>>5674129
oh
my
god
>>5674114
"mentall ilness" is a cultural construct
it's just a term people made up to stigmatize those who have mental disorders or just act out of "norm"
>>5680975
>cultural construct
>mental disorders
I suspect you don't actually know what you're saying.
How about we work to end mental illness rather than these band aid treatments.
>>5680975
when I was nearly flunking out of undergrad and couldn't go out in full sunlight and spent every hour feeling like I had a piano on my chest, it would have been very useful to know that what I had was an illness and not just normal college stress. if everyone around me had just been all "it's okay, he's just different, there's nothing wrong with being unable to manage your own thoughts" I'd probably be freezing under a bridge somewhere instead of in grad school.
some psychological states ARE illness, and they cannot be treated until they are acknowledged. fuck you and your faux allyhood.
>>5681008
Not them but you're throwing around buzzwords from pseudoscienctific social sciences while rejecting testable concepts from neuro and the hard sciences.
Pretty tumblr
>>5674114
By definition, mental illness implies there is something WRONG. When something is considered to be wrong, that is where the stigma lies.
like >>5674250 said, it won't ever happen because it is illogical. Trannies are considered mentally ill because that's the only way normal people can accept them. They aren't 'normal,' they are 'trannies.' You won't be accepted as 'normal' for at least another 50-100 years of heroic acts of self-sacrifice. That's how groups of people become recognized as worthy of being 'normal.'
>>5681297
obviously there is something wrong with trannies though, not that it's wrong to be a tranny
demanding we not be called mentally ill is belittling to all of us mentally ill
>>5681436
It's true. Transexuals have gender dysphoria. Transexuals are mentally ill. I have clinical depression. I'm mentally ill. I wouldn't demand that depression not be classified as mental illness and they shouldn't either. Something is wrong with me and I'm fine admitting that. Trans people need to stop being so whiney about labels.
mental illness is funny tho
I really don't care whether or not it's a mental illness. It's some sort of condition, I have it, and I'm pursuing the recommended course of treatment.
>>5674114
How about instead of pretending trannies are mentally ill we stop stigmatizing people exposed to daily trauma?
>>5680854
When /pol/ rants about "mental illness" they don't actually mean any specific condition with specific mechanisms and treatment, they just mean "baddumbthingIdon'tlike/degeneracy".
Try to talk about "ok even if they are mentally ill they need treatment and this is the statistically effective treatment" and /pol/tards will start whining that all psychology and some of neurology is just a big-pharma/liberal/jewish conspiracy.
>>5681525
The trouble is when those labels are used to deny the legitimacy of trans people.
>>5681647
In what way does calling it a mental illness deny the legitimacy of their condition? If anything it legitimizes it.
>>5681647
I didn't say calling it mental illness is the issue, I'm saying it being mental illness is used as an excuse to deny legitimacy and even treatment.
>>5681601
This so much. Thank you anon.
>>5681712
That doesn't follow. How could someone use the fact that it's a mental illness to deny treatment. If someone considers it an actual legitimate health issue they would likely be in favour of treating it. Also, what is this "legitimacy" you are talking about. It seems like declaring it an official mental illness gives it legitimacy. (i.e. it's not just a "phase")
>>5680948
fucking inaccurate meme-tier perception of ocd
OCD pride parade canceled because we all stayed home checking our stoves.
>>5681743
I mean just look at any tranny troll thread here or on /pol/.
It's a bit of the sort of "/pol/-type" mentality on mental illness described in >>5681639 saying that trannies are just delusional along with misinformation and twisting data like those that say because trannies kill themselves so much transition clearly isn't a solution and does more harm than good.
When I talk about denying legitimacy I'm referring to people using trannies being mentally ill as an excuse to deny their identity/access to treatment/legal protections.
It's stupid but it is what it is, part of the reason they slightly altered how gender dysphoria is categorized and defined was to try to change that though as you realize it being a recognized condition gives legitimacy for some areas such as health insurance.
>>5681804
People like those on /pol/ who dislike trans people will hate them however it is categorized. They will oppose transitioning and hormone treatment/surgery because they find it disgusting. It doesn't matter whether it's a mental illness or not.
It is a mental illness and it should be categorized as such. Whether it's problematic or not.
I agree with OP. Don't treat the symptom, treat the problem.
>>5681888
Never said it shouldn't be.
Really there just needs to be more education but any attempt just leads to ranting about liberal propaganda and "think of the children!"
>>5681900
From what I've seen it seems that the people who are most bothered by honest attempts to discuss mental illness are liberals themselves. "Just because he's autistic doesn't mean there is anything wrong with him! He's just neurologically atypical! How dare scientists talk about curing it!"
>>5681950
In this case, both /pol/ and anti /pol/ are reacting the most to the identity politics portion of the discussion. Which obviously is a legit thing. Identiy is as core as it gets to trans issues.
>mfw i'm a tranny and readily accept i'm mentally ill
i'm just doing what i can to make it go away. don't know why other trannies can't just accept this.
>muh identity
>>5680854
Nobody is saying every mental illness is the same.
Doesn't mean that gender dysphoria isn't an awful mental illness.
It also has a nasty habit of fostering other mental illnesses like depression or social anxiety does.
Well it's the public's fault for stigmatizing it and using the label to kick whatever legitimacy we have for our identities out from right under us. It's become a tool for oppression. They made it that way and it's their fault that so many of us are lashing back against it.
Society should reap what it sows.
>>5674114
desu i completely agree, i don't know why other trans peeps so readily throw mentally ill people under the bus.
kinda hypocritical don't you think?
>>5682098
Same. I have other mental illnesses, too, so even if I wasn't trans, I'd still be fucked up.
>>5683153
Maybe if you were using the right term, you wouldn't be seeing hypocrisy where there isn't any. A neurological disorder (trans, seizures, narcolepsy, etc) is not the same as a mental illness (phobia, ptsd, etc) and no amount of you fucking up something so basic to the field is going to change that.
>>5674114
I'm a person with mental disability : I'm affected by antisocial personality disorder and I am mostly non-neurotypical.
I find it very insulting and ableist to find all those trans people who vehemently refute their, somewhat minor, mental disability. As if it were something very dirty and shameful.
Also, I often find them attacking people like me with serious threats and sometimes using RL social pressure to shun us, just because we "lack sensitivity" about their issues. This lack of sensitivity is part of our condition, you shitlords! Check your fucking privileges!
>>5683211
the hypocrisy is in a broader sense that you're choosing to distance yourself from another group in such a manner that dehumanizes them.
other than that i agree. i didn't bother correcting OP but oh well. there perhaps isn't so much use in trying to destigmatize "mentally ill" as a term and focus more on destigmatizing "disorder", which spans both neurology and psychiatry.
the distinction between the two fields is somewhat arbitrary anyway given how the etiological origins of many psychiatric disorders haven't been pinned down, most of their practice is unscientific fluff, and the only time they ever do employ the scientific method actually brings them into the scope of neurology when concerned with genetic risk factors and both functional and volumetric brain studies.
I'm mostly happy with how the matter is currently being discussed by psychology, too. The move that "no gender identity or expression is disordered", or an illness, but that gender dysphoria IS does a lot of good. It justifies enforced insurance coverage for trans care without calling into question the legitimacy of our identities or personal expression. It also gives official recognition for non-dysphoric persons to be pushing gender and sex boundaries without being forced to associate with a condition they do not suffer from.
Having a mental illness (or neurological condition, or etc...) that is being treated is fine by me. Now we can maybe get to work making people less shit toward people with such conditions, and to stop calling all of us delusional. That would be lovely.
>>5683231
How am I supposed to take someone's identity seriously when it was formed from a sissy fetish?
>>5683245
how am i supposed to take your claim that gender dysphoria has its origins in a "sissy fetish" when you never manage to cite reputable data, and flies in the face of reality when:
a) it doesn't explain trans men
b) it doesn't explain trans women who have never experienced AGP
>>5683265
You missed
3) can't explain the results of neurological research or studies of transgender persons child, adolescent, and adult.
>>5683280
>a)
>b)
>3)
ayyyyyyyy
>>5683285
C a shit.
>>5674129
lol'd
>>5683265
Why are you straw manning me here? No matter what "evidence" I could put forth, it clearly wouldn't dissuade anybody of their ways on this board. What I'm saying is that as a self-respecting homosexual, I have seen enough fetish threads on this board to come to the conclusion that MANY trans-people come to identify as women through a sissy fetish.
>>5683419
>straw manning
that's rich, coming from you.
that doesn't mean the sissy fetish is the etiological origin of their dysphoria though, like how many times do we have to go over this?
look:
a) not all trans women experience AGP
b) not all sissy fetishists, erotic crossdressers and transvestites feel dysphoria or feel the need to transition
therefore to claim a causative link between one and the other is unsound to say the least.
the simplest and most irrefutable explanation would be to suspect that all people who experience dysphoria were neurologically wired to do so from the outset/ whether it first manifests as autogynephilia or not is by the by, those people would still have experienced dysphoria regardless.
nobody is denying that many trans women experience agp.
nobody is denying that agp may be the first way a person copes with dysphoria.
nobody is denying that when gender dysphoria is so linked to sexually dimorphic characteristics, it's going to bleed into how that person experiences their sexuality.
what I'M saying is that you are outright bullshitting in saying that the dysphoria itself has its origins - is CAUSED by - exposure of someone you would otherwise assert to be not dysphoric, to sissy fetishism.
what do you not understand about what i'm saying?
>>5674129
i agree with op but whoa
>>5681281
You might have misdirected your reply (or I came off vague) because I am very much against the "cultural construct" approach to mental illness, I think the vast majority of it is a matter of biology
