Is it possible to overcome the desire to become a girl? I've been trying to avoid thinking about it with the help of xanax, but it seems to be losing its effectiveness over time.
Switzerland has assisted suicide for $10k
>>5473942
>$10k
Pretty good price desu...
>>5473946
I'm saving up.
>>5473937
If you find out, contact a medical journal and try to get the results published
>>5473942
What's included in the package? They better stick me in a slick suit with blue aviators and a nice photo package for the family for $10,000, nigga. Shit, they better have a lawyer on hand to write my will too. At $10,000, I would be halfway to some FFS anyway. So they better make sure they throw in a manicure and pedicure too, I don't want to look ragged in front of the senpai. This body may not be girly, but it's too pretty to go unappreciated.
>>5473937
My desire only went away after i started to wear more feminine clothing. Then I hastily took the extra step of taking hormones which I quit taking after 3 years.
You have to let anna (your feminine side) outside the closet and integrate her with anon (your masculine side).
>>5474149
The proper term is anonette
>>5474149
This. Even without the hormones for some - you can do it part time. Still a lot of hassle (mostly body hair), but doable.
>2 years into transition
>Took xanax for the first time recently
>Dysphoria is gone for 12h or so
scary stuff
>>5474149
>You have to let anna (your feminine side) outside the closet and integrate her with anon (your masculine side).
B-But my feminine side is a depraved cumslut and I'm a respectable straight man ;_;
>brb, gonna go stop my feelings with some more xannies to be honest
>>5474149
You hastily took hrt for 3 years???
>>5474253
>I'm a respectable straight man
Haha... No you are not sweetie. You are straight yes, as a girl. Just accept it already
>>5474149
> having a 'persona' that you refer to like she's a different person
That's pretty AGP sempai.
>>5474272
>implying it's any worst than the anima/animus theory of Jung
>>5474280
>implying anyone is implyingthat
>>5474253
>B-But my feminine side is a depraved cumslut
it's your destiny Anonette; just accept that you belong under the dominion of a strong loving man.
pic related: this could be you in a few years
>>5474298
>implying anyone here could like as good as carmen.
>become a girl
>girl
>2016
>still using non-gender neutral pronouns
Can we stop!? These triggering mircoaggressions just need to fucking stop. I would expect this nazi level shit on pol, but we need to be above the cis delusions. Come on
>>5474339
They could with a lot of money
>>5474345
I wonder who could be behind this post?
>>5474345
>girl
>pronoun
>>5474298
I don't see how I could live as female openly with family and work acquaintances, it'd be the equivalent of deciding to pull my pants down and crap on the floor in front of everyone one day. Physically it's possible, but mentally / socially I don't think I have the courage.
>>5474363
but carmen always looked like a hispanic girl even when he wore snapbacks and had stubble
>>5473937
Transition now anon please ;n;
>>5474464
>filename
>>5474461
There's an agp general on the catalog, you can join us anon :D
>>5474461
Just live as a male that's growing boobs and all the other changes that come with HRT, then; either nobody says anything or they confront you about it and force the issue for you.
>>5474461
oh my fucking god i know this feel so hard
my coping mechanism is to compartmentalize transition into teeny tiny baby steps and not think about that part until it's upon me
>>5474571
>Just live as a male that's growing boobs and all the other changes that come with HRT
lol, I wonder if anyone's actually done that, just start taking female hormones, get breast implants, grow out and style their hair, do their nails, and show up to work all the while without talking to anyone about what they're doing.
>>5474596
Yeah, that's my strategy. It's not even like anyone I know would really care, I just can't get my fearful self-preservation brain routines to believe what I rationally know.
>>5473937
Maybe if you smacked your head with a rock it would jolt you out of it.
Then again, I'm not a doctor
>>5474605
styling your hair and doing your nails are not changes that come with HRT
If you wanted to be a guy, you would be gay. Your ideal is what you chase. All men would rather fuck women than men, and would rather be women than men too. Only queers obsessed with their own masculinity seek to become a man.
>>5474610
imo this little compartmentalization thingie ought to be common knowledge like other transition stuff cos I reckon it's often a completely vital mental health survival strategy
>>5474623
You can do those things or not, your choice. I don't, tomboy mode is best.
>>5474644
Yeah, I might have started earlier and had a chance of passing if I had realized that it was actually an option.
>>5474633
Really? So how come it's so rare for guys to try to transition?
>>5474633
>All men would rather be women than men
Anon, I...
>>5474697
Not enough xenoestrogens in the water supply yet. Give it time.
>>5474729
So if it weren't for the xenoestrogens, everyone would be gay? You've already basically claimed that heterosexuality and gender dysphoria are one and the same. Why is one more common than the other, then?
>>5474729
>tfw in the future everyone will either be a girl with a vagina or a girl with a penis
Perfect world to be honest.
>>5474745
Except the vagina part.
>y u c k
>>5474758
That's where babby comes from though. You wouldn't want the girl only paradise to die out after a single generation, would you?
>>5474633
>all men would rather be women
This desu. It's just part of the normal male condition.
>>5474767
Science will find a way to get boys pregnant, delivery can be by C-section.
>>5474781
b-but a babby would ruin my perfect body
>>5474633
>All men would rather be women than men too
Yeah, I remember being 13 years old and thinking this. Spoilers: men like being men; you're a tranny
>>5474781
Jesus fucking christ. Pregnant Flea? Really?
>>5474893
If she can turn into a bat I don't think making a magic womb would be all that difficult.
>>5474476
Actually, I am going to say as a Hispanic, her upper face did look pretty feminine to begin with. I would not be surprised if she were already on hormones at that point.
>>5474882
>men like being men; you're a tranny
Prove it. I think they're just pretending. They cannot possibly like it.
>>5474745
When did Michael Cera transition?
>>5475005
Search your heart, you know it to be true.
>>5475023
How do you know wanting to be a woman, and be feminine it's not just a mental weakness that needs to be overcome?
>>5475098
overcome for what? why does it have to be a weakness?
>>5475098
Posts like this are so self-defeating it's not even funny.
>>5474633
Stop projecting your tranny delusions on other people senpai.
>>5475098
I'd be fine being a cute feminine boy as long as I could basically be a girl for all intents and purposes; I just don't want to be a man.
Stop resisting it then try to develop the desire to be male -> realize you're already there and be happy.
>>5475108
Because it's just me being a weak, slightly-effeminate, oversensitive little bitch who wouldn't have had so many problems if I'd been normal. Other guys sense it right away. They have given me hell for it since elementary school. I don't even know what it is I'm doing wrong. I'm trying, how the hell do they know? Doesn't everyone put up a complete act around friends and family?
And then for relationships. Shouldn't I be a responsible man and start a family with a woman? But the thought of being a husband, or dad forever seems depressing. Why the hell do I want to be the wife and do wifely, and motherly things? And doesn't everyone feel a little nervous and shy around really cute, confident guys, and think "wow, he's hot"? But actually doing it just seems shameful. What would people think of me? I'm supposed to be a regular man, and take the male role in a het relationship. Being the girl just seems like the path of least resistance.
>>5475114
Why? I don't understand.
>>5475171
Marry an FTM, he can be your husband you can be his wife, genetic lineage still preserved.
>>5475192
I still don't feel like I deserve to be the wife though, if that makes sense. Like you aren't allowed to because you're a man, and to do so would be cheating. I mean, it's not like I can have babies, so why would I be worth protecting?
>>5475204
Adorable. Seriously, though, go be the wife and mother you want to be rather than trying to be the husband and father you don't want to be, you'll be a better partner and parent if you don't feel horrible about yourself.
>>5474298
>didn't even realize this was carmen
>thought the 'joke' of this picture was that this obviously gay man had a wife and kids
>>5475269
>do you honestly think being male is supposed to be a burden
It's foreign to me. I've always wanted to be a girl, literally, it's just that I'm not allowed to since I'm not a girl, Every time I did express something feminine it would get shot down fast. Doing feminine things now just seems shameful. Also, see >>5475171
>>5475338
Are you attracted to men or women?
>>5475342
I've made out with women, which was nice, but going further just felt boring. I've never done anything with a man before, but "omg, don't look him directly in the eye, he's really cute" blushing, nervous awkwardness around certain ones, and it's more of an electric feeling that doesn't happen around women. But then I think, no, i'm really straight and normal, and like girls.
>>5474633
>>5475005
>>5475098
>>5475171
>>5475338
>>5475367
Hahaha, my gosh, anon. You are such a tranny. Your denial is off the charts.
Report to a psychologist, counselor, or psychiatrist for your gender dysphoria/gender identity disorder diagnosis immediately.
>>5473937
>juicy
LOL
this makes me laugh every time
>>5475412
Are we talking estrogen or viagra?
>>5475424
Just take little steps, don't come out all of the sudden.
I wish I was as true trans as you :/
agp is the worst fate
>>5475424
Well that's complicated, I suggest you check out the trans help general and also try to find a gender identity therapist
>>5473937
It is impossible for you to become a girl, moron.
You can dress like a girl, imitate a few female characteristics of a girl, but that doesn't turns you into a girl.
This pig is not a sailor. You are not a girl.
>>5475268
Two wives and kids desu
>>5475424
That comes with time. HRT will also probably loosen you up some as it improves your mood.
>>5475468
>HRT improves mood
>>5475477
If HRT doesn't improve your mood then you aren't trans
>>5475487
You call violent mood swings an improvement? Yeah your mood improves half of the time at the expense of the half, which is completely ruined.
Don't give out stupid, unqualified advice plz.
>>5475433
>>5473942
Ahh, just in time for your appointment. We're nearly done helping the last repressed trans girl of the thread, so we're just about ready to help you out, Miss.
>>5475477
The desire to for a trans person to kill themself drops just by taking it. Depression improves and as the effects take place, they become increasingly more satisfied by their bodies.
>>5475496
Moodswings can be a problem, but they usually settle down after a while.
>>5475496
I still feel way better than I used to even on my worst days. Plus there's the whole mitigating dysphoria thing
>>5475503
M-miss?
![listen-up[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/u90bUfh.jpg "listen-up[1].jpg")
>>5473937
You just do it.
It's psychological. There is no method.
>>5473937
Yes, find some hobbies to take away your mind from your sex. Just don’t ever wear girls clothes, it will only make it worse. Do some manly sport or something. If you want to fuck men that doesn’t mean you have to be a girl.
>>5475805
could you be honest and tell me if you're from /pol/? no jew tricks, just the truth
>>5473937
Being a girl is very hard, so give it a try
Odds are, you'll probably fail or quit
But if you make it, then let us know
>>5475816
That advice honestly works. I'm not from /pol but he's right. It's also more productive too
>>5475847
It doesn't attack the problem, you just hide it for a while by doing that
>>5475856
You hide it for awhile by doing everything. You can never really attack the problem. Can you tell me what the problem is in the furst place and hiw transitioning into a secondary citizen helps it al all? We-re fantasizing that we are something that we're clearly not, so I'll continue to drown myself in my virtual world until I die
>>5475805
This. There is nothing wrong with being a man and be in love with another man but wearing girls clothes and crippling your bloodline with dangerous hormones is total degeneracy.
>>5475805
If you do this, you're just going to end up as a 50 year old literal hon
>>5475878
>implying that becoming a girl isn't the pinnacle of masculinity
>>5475433
This, you will never have wide childbearing hips. You will never have real vagina, just inverted penis. You will never experience pregnancy. Just stay functional man rather than defect "woman".
>>5475510
Oh, I'm so sorry! Is it Ms. or Mrs. then?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
>>5476066
There's already a thread for that /pol/tard
>>5475995
>Just stay functional man
Why would I do that? I was non-functional as a man anyway.
>>5473937
You have to fully explore this persona until it's satisfied.
Go out and do what needs to be done until you get sick of it. Resist the urge to pop hormone pills and do irreversible damage. Handle all those feelings of inferiority the same as any ugly, fat GG with a moustache would have to.
Eventually the little jealous girl inside you will mature.
>>5474882
>I remember being 13 years old and thinking this
is this normal
>>5476166
If I think this statement is hit, does that mean I'm AGP? I am so aroused at the thought of letting go of my masculinity and embracing the life of a sissy, cocksucking girl.
>>5476173
>I am so aroused at the thought of letting go of my masculinity and embracing the life of a sissy, cocksucking girl.
So do it. There are tons of men waiting around for pre-teen girl personas to exploit for a wet hole to shove their cock in.
Just be careful.
>>5476178
Maybe try going to a disability/cancer/disease support group that welcomes anyone dressed as a girl.
Before you go, bake up some soft cookies out of a box of brownie batter that look irresistible, with pink frosting and sprinkles.
Be super sweet, modest and conservative in demeanor, let your bra straps show through your shirt a bit.
Speak up and say nice things, give compliments, don't be afraid of not passing, everyone already knows what your problem is.
Someone will eventually show interest.
>>5475805
>repress your feeling for the rest of your life instead of taking action and getting to the bottom of the issues
lol okay dad thanks for nothing
>>5476195
(cont. again, polite sage)
The reason I suggest doing this is because it gives you a sense of empowerment, where the people there are already emotionally vulnerable, you have an opportunity to make friends.
As long as you're not obnoxious and lewd, even those who disagree with your lifestyle will feel pressured to stay and tolerate it so as not to reveal themselves as judgmental bigots, unless they all feel that way and simply ask you to leave.
Their own vulnerability is something you can use to your advantage in your own quest for self-validation.
I'm not suggesting that you take advantage of them, but I am suggesting you take advantage of the emotionally supportive setting and BE emotionally supportive to others. That's what the group is for.
There will definitely be someone there who appreciates you putting forth the effort, and admires your courage to try and make life better for everyone, including yourself. They'll approach you nervously, and you have an edge in getting both of you what you need.
before tking pills, seeing doctor, before anything
read this entire website
http://transgenderreality.com/
>>5475805
>>5475816
>>5475847
>>5475866
>>5475878
>>5475995
The defining characteristic of a pattern is that it repeats itself.
>John, a 50 year-old genetic male, medical research scientist, married (23 years), father of three children aged 20, 17 and 7, phoned me after experiencing a panic attack severe enough to require emergency attention from paramedics at the airport on his way to give a presentation at a conference. John gave me only his first name and informed me that I was the first to be told what he was about to tell me. He said he was "gender dysphoric" and that he was "desperate." Feelings that were once "controllable through sheer force of will," had increased to where he now was having protracted periods where he would close his office door, lie on the floor and weep quietly while curled up in the fetal position, holding his genitals in pain. Other than intrusive and repeated fantasies of being female, he had refused to allow himself any overt form of female gender expression. He reported feeling that if he was to cross-dress and be caught, he would dishonor his wife and family. Having attained international recognition for his work, he was also concerned about his professional reputation. The only other form of temporary relief came through masturbating, often up to five times a day.
>Our work together over the last three years has been slow. However, with the help of extensive individual, group, and family psychotherapy, augmented by estrogen replacement therapy, with the full permission of his family, John has recently taken on a female name and is living full time in the female gender role. She is in the process of renewing and redefining her relationship with her family, and has successfully returned to work after an extended leave of absence.
http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm
>>5476170
For a tranny.
I am a cis white girl and I would never understand why any man would want to become female. Men are superior, in my opinion. And I believe that most girls would want to have dicks. There is nothing great about wearing girls clothes, I personally wear my brother's clothes and they're much more comfy.
>>5476421
>i'm a cis white girl
>I would never understand why any man would want to become female
>most girls would want to have dicks
lol, nice try
>>5476421
you are not taken into consideration how much more comfort and care women receive in opposition to guys. its a lot easier for women to get sex and relationships. less is expected of women. women can always fall back on being a house wife if she fucks up. periods are about the only shitty thing. all the feminist shit applies to men too.
>>5474882
Hah i did this too when I was around 12/13. I remember lying in bed and thinking how everyone would obviously rather be a girl but guys just got unlucky so they to deal with being manly, then I got all sad and jealous.
Then one day my friends were talking about how shit it would be to be a girl and I was like "wait what??"
>>5476421
Maybe you can't wear the sexy clothes?
Maybe you can't be admired by someone who used to vilify you, with the power of being yourself.
>>5476482
I can wear the sexy clothes. But why would you want to? Men rarely look hot in girls' clothes.
>>5476498
Triggered. But really, it's not so much about the clothes, and ideally treatment would be started before their body is ruined.
>>5473942
But don't they only accept terminally ill or fully paralysed patients?
yeah prescription drugs was not the best way to do this, and probably caused more harm as well as opened your mind and body up to the susceptibility of a xanny addiction
>>5474610
>tfw everyone I know would really care and in a bad way
fuckity fuck
>>5476385
god, this is depressing to read
everything about being trans is so awful
>>5475866
Do you plan to take advantage of VR headsets to experience life in some way as a woman?
>>5475995
Does it matter if you can still do the other things women can do? You can still breastfeed. You can still do everything you would like for your husband or wife. That's still closer to the desire and therefore, will bring more happiness than just throwing transition out the window entirely. Isn't that usually what you guys say? "You can't have everything you want in life and need to suck it up to play the cards you are dealt"?
>>5473937
take more xanax
or other drugs
that's what I do, and it helps me with despair and disphoria
of course, I also take hormones
>>5475995
>wide childbearing hips
Yeah, because all women have those right
>You will never experience pregnancy
PARTY DOT PNG
>>5476622
Unless your parents are kind, supportive parents who help you transition while helping fend off the assholes who want to make a big deal out of it and prevent you from transitioning. Or better yet, no one sees anything wrong with it to begin with. But that's life, I guess.
>>5476239
Please don't try and discourage people from transitioning.
It's fucked up and you want people to be unhappy, you're probably a hun or something.
plz go
>>5477885
there ought to be a warning on this board that if you're super early in the questioning phase you should run far away from here lest you be destroyed by the 4chan background radiation
>>5476153
then sure, go ahead and ruin your body and health
>>5474476
She looked like a generic Hispanic guy. Latinos just have feminine faces especially the eyes
>>5474605
That's what I did. Its no one's business. In not sending out a cringey email chain explaining that I'm changing sexes like the old hons do
>>5478085
Did anyone at work say anything to you when you started showing up looking like a girl?
>>5478027
get a job kid
>>5475843
It's only hard cause we weren't born one. Being a girl is easy as hell
>>5476421
Good thing I can be a girl with a dick
>>5478100
No. I'm not technically in work. I'm in a training period for a job right now. If had a few comments thrown my way. But I don't really look like a girl, just a really feminine guy. My hair isn't long enough yet
>>5476239
Lol. Radcunts pls go.
>>5476166
back to bed jung
>>5475995
>>wide childbearing hips
>Yeah, because all women have those right
yes, compared to men obviously.
>>5473942
$10k? For what? Do I get to blow my load while I blow my brains?
Shit, for 10k I better be eating the best cut of filet mignon, a vintage wine, and some pretentious dessert with edible gold shavings on top, while a high-class escort is sucking me off underneath the table. It should all be so worth it that I contemplate, in that last moment before I die, whether I really want to go through with it.
>>5476421
it is a fetish, being dominated, some people just enjoy being the submissive one, which is socially the woman. However some don’t realize you can be submissive even as a guy, just find a dominant gay guy and be his petite fuck-boy. No need to destroy your body with chemicals.
>>5480710
>mind-blowing orgasm
>>5476512
>children should get irreversible treatment before they are capable of understanding all the consequences
>>5474882
Yea, I also though girls have it better, but then I hit puberty and now I can’t imagine being girl.
>>5480735
The effects of GnRH analogs are reliably reversible tho. Puberty on the other hand isn't. If you're worried about irreversible changes, wouldn't it be logical to delay puberty in children until they're old enough to fully understand what it is and whether or not they actually want it?
>>5480780
puberty is natural, it develops the body as it should.
>>5480931
It doesn't develop the body as it should if you're a transsexual.
Also for the record, the "85% of minors detransition" study was flawed and considered that the half of its subjects it couldn't track down detransed. Which is dumb af.
>>5474596
This.
>>5480780
Gender dysphoria can fade after puberty, if you block the puberty you take away the child’s chance at normal life without any hormones.
>>5480953
forgot pic
>>5480937
>muh flawed study
Even if that were true, all it would change are the numbers, not the fact that there are at least some kids, whose disorder disappeared after puberty and that giving puberty blockers to kids takes away this chance from them.
>>5480968
>some kids whose disorder disappeared
They actually didn't count just kids with GD. They counted all gender variant kids including those who weren't diagnosed with GD.
>>5480953
Gender dysphoria doesn't disappear after puberty. If it's there at puberty, it will always be there. And people who are diagnosed with gd before puberty are actually extremely unlikely to ever lose it.
Also I hate this kind of mass name-dropping because some of the authors are saying the opposite of each other. We know Steensma was pulling most of her detransition numbers out of her ass.
>>5480993
>it’s inconvenient so it’s wrong
>>5481015
that's not a counter argument
>>5481015
Did you learn to argue in a schoolyard?
>>5480953
I have been dysphoric ever since I was a child but I always thought puberty would fix me. Guess what. It didn't. If anything it's even worse because now I have to deal with my ugly masculine body that I hate. If it weren't for people spouting bullshit like that I could've started HRT at like 13 and been a qt by now.
>>5480953
And if it doesn't fade after puberty you dramatically reduce the child's chances at successfully coping with their condition and leave them with a 45% chance of attempted suicide.
>>5481020
>that's not a counter argument
neither was your comment, you just said "Gender dysphoria doesn't disappear after puberty" without any source. The study clearly states that some (not all) children with GD were perfectly normal after puberty. Sorry, I’m going to take this study over some anonymous guy being butthurt about it.
>>5481043
>I have been dysphoric ever since I was a child but I always thought puberty would fix me. Guess what. It didn't.
It didn’t for you, but the study shows, that for some children it gets fixed. If you start to mass-drug children with hormones, we will affect even those, who would otherwise get fixed by the end of their puberty.
>>5481050
better than wrongly administering hormones to children who don’t need it.
>>5481142
How in the hell can that study be accurate when we don't even have any REAL studies of how gender transition affects an individual yet?
>>5481143
nobody is administering hormones to them
christ it's like talking to a brick wall
>>5481143
So we ruin the lives of the 20% of kids that don't turn out normal. Nice thinking you sociopath. You don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
If you shitheads are gonna advocate this type of shit then don't come here crying about how all trans people make you uncomfortable because they look like freaks or should have their treatments banned because they're mentally ill and commit suicide all the time. Take some fucking responsibility.
>>5480703
>using extreme examples
Reminder that 25% of women fall within the "male" range
>>5481268
>the 20% of kids that don't turn out normal
More like 65% considering the researcher assumed anyone who didn't show up for the followup had detransed.
>>5481268
>So we ruin the lives of the 20% of kids that don't turn out normal.
Better than ruining lives of the 80%.
>>5481392
boku wa
>>5481392
Yea nah this isn't a unilateral decision. Those kids that aren't part of the 80% need treatment. Treatment options should be considered on a case by case basis.
okay okay, how about these tests:
answer this question: "if you could take a pill to make you female PERMANENTLY, would you take it?"
no is no; yes is yes
crossdress in public.
if its a fucking nightmare and you want to go back to acting like a man and you feel like a faggot crossdressing, than no.
if it's a fucking nightmare because you wish you passed as a woman, than yes.
if you love it and would like to live your life as a woman, 2 yesses.
2 yesses total means you're trans.
>if I'm trans, then should I transition?
yes, asap if you want to live past 30
>if im not trans, but i like to be a girl for sex/ be a fuccboi what do?
further investigate whether you're trans or not (better safe than sorry), if still not buy some sexy lingere and/or take spironolactone/ cyproterone acetate ( T blockers) to become a twink-femboi
>>5481992
who is that cucumber executioner?
>>5473937
Do crossplay at conventions.
>>5481992
>>if I'm trans, then should I transition?
>yes, asap if you want to live past 30
Disagree. Not every trans person has to transition, and promoting the idea that you'll die if you don't is unhealthy and counter-productive.
>>5473937
Have you considered that you might just be gay or bi, and through some self hating warped reasoning think that the only way it would be acceptable for you to be gay or bisexual is if you were a girl?
I think you need to come to terms with being homosexual or bisexual, then these feelings of wanting to be something you are not will go away.
>>5482090
>This is what gay men actually believe
>>5482094
I'm straight, I just ran across this thread under popular
>>5482094
They got a point anon. Transition is the nuclear option. You gotta be SURE.
>>5482121
I feel like if you're at the point where transitioning seems like a legitimately attractive option, then it's worth serious consideration
>>5482067
if you don't want to become the opposite sex permanently, you aren't trans fyi.
>Not every trans person has to transition
sure, you can live a miserable self-hating life without ever enjoying sex or feeling comfortable in your own skin without ever killing yourself.
the reason I brought up survival is because the trans suicide rate is ~41%. many trans people do have to transition to survive. It's better than trying to convince them otherwise and either die or live a torturous life.
>>5482090
It's unlikely if they were more distressed about their body than their orientation.
>>5482141
Later in the thread the guy "claims" to be a straight male. I guess it's possible he wants to be a girl and still only have sex with girls but it seems unlikely.
In other words I think that his body view and orientation are in fact connected.
>>5482139
> if you don't want to become the opposite sex permanently, you aren't trans fyi
Anyone who transitions for any reason is 'trans'. You aren't the owner of a fucking special snowflake club
>>5473937
You can't, and if you don't give in now its going to get you when you're a grown man with children and a wife. You can let down your father or you can let down your children, be a perma hon, and pretty much just be a hated person. Or you can transition now and maybe not be disgusting and definitely never let that future family down.
>>5482139
This desu
Encouraging someone to transition is way less dangerous than encouraging them not to
>>5482139
>the reason I brought up survival is because the trans suicide rate is ~41%. many trans people do have to transition to survive. It's better than trying to convince them otherwise and either die or live a torturous life.
Don't you fucking dare insult all those people by claiming you speak for them or making out that transition prevents suicide. Pull your head out of your arse, your opinion isn't fact or law and you're not helping trans people by gatekeeping, you're hindering us.
>>5482266
>Encouraging someone to transition is way less dangerous than encouraging them not to
NEITHER of which I was doing or condoning. How about letting people make up their own goddamn minds instead of championing your decision as the only correct one for everyone?
>>5482205
Letting down fathers, huh..
>>5481992
What if it's a fucking nightmare because you wish you passed as a woman and you want to go back to acting like a man and you feel like a faggot crossdressing, all at once?
>>5482311
practice breathing, slowly
>>5482307
Id rather let down my father than my wife and children, and Im sure my and your father would rather you let him down than your future wife and kids.
>>5482322
Okay.
>>5474253
You have to face it, it's the only way, in my opinion.
During puberty a sexual aspect was added, now that am put together it's not so bad anymore.
>>5474262
I had doubts but support groups kept telling me it's normal and not to quit.
I was on blockers for one year. Then the regular dose for two years.
When it comes to this you have to really trust yourself and what you know not just other people.
>>5483027
>it's not so bad anymore.
I meant to say, not so frustrating.
When you have to dress to go outside it's different. Living as a woman and taking blockers, and hormones really took the fetish aspect out it, lol.
>>5481153
You won't convince them. Radcunts aren't ignorant, theyre just being intentionally thick so that other, less intentioal people will buy into their shit. Whats the old saying about a lie repeated often enough becoming truth? They know the studies don't support them so they can only rely on Alinsky tactics to smear trans people.
>>5483102
less intelligent*
>>5481144
Because the medical industry can be fucked up.
>>5481992
>tfw you answer to no to all but still want to get rid of all your facial hair permanently and be as petty as you can and still get a little jealous of women
>>5482110
stop reminding me of early transitioners
thx
>>5484715
So get your facial hair removed; you don't need to be trans to get laser.
>>5482090
this, there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, you don’t have to ruin your body for it.
>>5483102
>study say a lot of dysphoric children have their disorder disappear by the end of puerty
>hurr durr, the studies don’t support them, lets make as much trannies as possible
>>5485624
I vividly remember my fetish of transforming into an animal before puberty. After puberty the transformation fetish became transformation into a woman.
>tfw you want to be woman like but you don't want to be woman
>>5485604
>tfw started ruining my body with hormones, decided i'm just a twink fagboy, can't stop taking hormones
Just feels good man .jpg, scared getting off them will make me uglier and make me a crazy tranny again.
>>5481992
That's a really freaking beautiful woman and my head is getting hot and dizzy from looking at her lips. On to the actual topic...
>crossdress in public
Dress codes are cultural constructions. If your proof of transsexuality goes over a cultural construction, I would question the legitimacy of the condition.
However, I've just learned that
1) anorexia is about 10 times more common in females
2) so-called "reverse anorexia" AKA muscle dysmorphia (you constantly want to be more and more muscular) happens primarily to men
and this is extremely interesting, because these are mental illnesses that really go deep into the psyche and cause very serious delusions, caused presumably entirely by gender stereotypes and media representation of the genders. So who is to say that other equally serious and "legitimate" conditions cannot be caused by the same gender stereotypes and media representation?
Could it be that transgenderism really is *purely* a result of our culture? Could it be that transgenderism as a condition would literally entirely disappear if we abolished gender stereotypes and unhealthy portrayal of the gender binary in media?
>>5481435
Hahahaha, I'm afraid I'm the only one in the thread who gets the reference, but hey, somebody got your joke!
God damn Kerry, easily the most glorious character in all anime or all media if you ask me. The pure, undiluted, absolute commitment to ending human suffering, leading to such incredible personal trauma, easily makes him the most "inspiring" fictional character to me, being kind of an ultra idealist suffering from deep depression myself.
>>5485624
The "study" in question is an example of WPATH using terrible wording.
The (meaningful) numbers they had came from the gender clinics that administer hormone blockers. "Gender dysphoric children whose dysphoria stopped with puberty" includes the following groups:
Gender non-conforming children who visited those clinics but did not qualify for blockers (and, later, became comfortable with their assigned gender).
Gender non-confirming children who qualify for blockers, use them, and decide to go through puberty as the gender they were assigned.
While they understood the results of their members' reviews of various trans issues, WPATH clearly fails to explain the matter sufficiently to laymen.
>>5486266
No you fucking radfem. Transgenderism has existed throughout of history, some cultures dealt with it by creating a third gender. And there is a biological binary, deal with it
>>5474036
What's to stop someone from borrowing the money via loan or credit card?
>>5486266
No. Dworkin has many valuable things to say, but even in her "androgynous society" there will be MAAB persons who wish to be female, and FAAB persons who wish to be male. In her hypothetical society, however, no one would spend years of their life making war on the autonomy of such people.
The desire for change and growth toward greater self-actualization is not any society's fault, but perhaps a better one would be accepting of that urge, rather than abusing and directing it for financial gain.
Okay, first off this is not the best place to ask this question as you are getting alot of trolls and hate for 0 reason.
If you don't want to be a girl then don't, if you find that hard try to find a therapist.
However if you find the problem is the opposite; that you really deeply want to be a girl but are held back by internal and external fears; well ideally you go see a therapist still.
If you don't mind confirmation bias you can google transgender subreddits for advice with a tad less trolling and hate.
That said my two cents:
You sound trans, anti-depressants help because they can stop depression and help keep you mind off of it. But they are just band-aids for the symptoms. If you think your gender is the source of your anguish then you really aren't being healthy by treating it with anti-depressants. If you find you are hating your body solely for being masculine then you might be dsyphoric about your gender. Unfortunately this tends to get worse and worse with age. You need better help than some idiots (myself included) on the internet can provide.
Affects of HRT are:
Breast growth
Female fat distribution (widens hips, thighs, bust, and changes facial appearance slightly)
And a myriad of emotional changes (which can temporarily lead to radically swinging states of highs and lows until the mind adjusts).
Side effects are:
Shrinking testes (ball period, shaft if not used regularly)
Eventual sterilization (ejaculation will become clear as the testes will stop producing sperm)
increased risk of blood clots (important to have regular clinic checkups if possible but this is an extremely low risk still)
Increased risk of breast cancer, reduced risk of prostate and testicular cancers.
>>5473937
I think you shouldn't permanently change your body if you are still happy with being a man in your life. But I'd recommend crossdressing alone or in public, since it really let's you indulge in your urge without any permanent changes to your lifestyle.
>>5486363
>No you fucking...
It would be great if you didn't start insulting people immediately when they bring up an interesting idea.
>Transgenderism has existed throughout of history
And so have gender roles and stereotypes.
>And there is a biological binary, deal with it
When did I imply there wasn't? Of course there is. The question is, is it really a naturally occurring biological condition that some people feel bad over their sexual phenotype, or is it an illness caused by a faulty upbringing, notable one that has a very strong focus on supposedly innate personality differences between the sexes.
>>5487122
considering that studies tend to show that a non-plastic part of the brain, that is considered to play a role in gender identity, is more similar to the opposite sex in transsexual people you don't really have a point. in addition to that trans people are just as complex as cis people and experience just as many different kinds of upbringings so generalizing the way you do doesn't work.
>>5487194
>studies tend to show that a non-plastic part of the brain, that is considered to play a role in gender identity, is more similar to the opposite sex in transsexual people
May I see these studies?
As far as I know, only very very little research could be done on this, though I remember reading something like it.
>trans people are just as complex as cis people and experience just as many different kinds of upbringings
It's virtually impossible to avoid the adoption of gender stereotypes. Even if one exerts a strong conscious effort to ignore and forget about gender stereotypes, and the parents try raising the child in such a gender agnostic way, the ubiquitous gender stereotypes in all of media and in the behaviors and speech of other children/people will make it pretty much impossible to avoid soaking up the stereotypes into the subconscious.
If mentioning the subconscious sounds like bull, let me point out the abundant amounts of money that's being poured into advertisement by companies. They do this because it's very well known that no matter how much of a conscious effort people exert to ignore ads, they still have an effect. (And ironically, these very ads are one of the prime perpetrators of gender stereotypes, but also far from being the only ones.)
Gender roles and stereotypes have been pillars of societies throughout history. If the frequent media portrayal of thin women can lead to anorexia in many girls and women, I can imagine the absolutely ubiquitous gender stereotypes having much deeper, graver effects, to the point of possibly explaining the whole phenomenon of transgenderism and gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia.
It is just a hypothesis, but a perfectly sound one if you ask me.
Also, the brain differences you mention... They could simply be an indicator of who is likely to get ill from these cultural portrayals of genders. It's not necessarily proof of the dysphoria being inborn, is it?
>>5487357
>Also, the brain differences you mention... They could simply be an indicator of who is likely to get ill from these cultural portrayals of genders. It's not necessarily proof of the dysphoria being inborn, is it?
Actually, since it was said that their brain is similar to that of the other sex, and doesn't just have a random variation, one could argue that it's proof of a biologically rooted gender.
Still, given that it's ludicrous to suggest that women are predisposed to wear pink dresses and makeup, and given that it's the culture that insists on a match between genitals and personality, it would still be imaginable that in an androgynous society, people with these different gendered brains would feel neither social gender dysphoria nor body dysmorphia.
Up until now I was assuming that Dworkin was simply uninformed about body dysmorphia and such indicators of a strong biologic root of transsexuality, but now that I think about it, the biology could simply be combining with the culture to create the illness, whereas in a different society the biology could be non-pathological and merely be a small indicator of certain possible personality traits.
To clarify, I support transitioning one way or another. It's still an emergency measure against an emergency situation, as Dworkin put it 40 years ago already.
I just think that the hypothesis that transgenderism as a phenomenon is culturally induced and would disappear in an androgynous society should not be labeled transphobic and demonized.
>>5487357
>May I see these studies?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0
there is a ton of studies here, though truth is, the whole thing is not studied enough for definitive truth. but the direction steers away from gender stereotypes being the cause of it to being a factor that affects it, at least how i understand it.
>It's virtually impossible to avoid the adoption of gender stereotypes.
i absolutely agree and feel like the way it is exerted today is much better than years ago but there is still too much pressure on people to act "according to gender".
nevertheless, even though you said nothing really wrong this
>I can imagine the absolutely ubiquitous gender stereotypes having much deeper, graver effects, to the point of possibly explaining the whole phenomenon of transgenderism and gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia.
has no build up in your argument and the conclusion feels out of place, hasted and very weak.
>Gender roles and stereotypes have been pillars of societies throughout history. If the frequent media portrayal of thin women can lead to anorexia in many girls and women
yes, girls strife to look like women, duh. but you fail to make the connection why boys would strife to want to look like girls.
so far, your hypothesis is very weak.
>>5487385
>body dysmorphia
*dysphoria
>>5487469
>yes, girls strife to look like women, duh
just to make sure this isn't being taken out of context, i don't encourage anorexia and don't think it is pretty.
>>5487394
Dworkin put it that way years ago as a bone thrown at best.
>I just think the hypothesis, etc
It should be labeled transphobic and demonized because it is actually harmful and has long been debunked by shit like the David Reimer case. They did everything to turn him into a girl and only managed to create a trans boy.
>>5487469
>If the frequent media portrayal of thin women can lead to anorexia in many girls and women
Also AN is almost as common in boys and was first diagnosed in a boy.
>>5487516
I guess, but David Reimer was also probably told about his "birth defect" at a very early age and fully aware that he was supposed to be a boy. Who in their right mind would WANT to be born the passive sex, if someone told them that they were actually supposed to be the dominant sex? I don't know. That ONE case seems pretty eh.
>>5487538
>David Reimer was also probably told about his "birth defect" at a very early age
Since you're trying to pull shit out of your ass: no, not likely at all. Parents don't tell their kids that they're intersex, they usually find out older because of some medical history that was kept secret. It's significantly more likely that his parents did exactly the same.
And considering what they were trying to do, it's obvious why they wouldn't have done it.
>>5487538
>Who in their right mind would WANT to be born the passive sex, if someone told them that they were actually supposed to be the dominant sex?
Why do you view women as inferior?
>>5487600
A lot of terfs are ftm detransitioners and shit like that. You always get the feeling that they detrans because of social disapproval over being a tranny and use some weak ideological grounding to justify it.
>>5487469
>yes, girls strife to look like women, duh.
Well, like how we tell them women should look (which corresponds to a small number of real women).
>but you fail to make the connection why boys would strife to want to look like girls.
Because their personality steers in the direction of femininity.
The thing with binary gender stereotypes is they erase out from our imagination and acceptance the possibilities of any other expressions. So a male whose natural urge of expression steers more in the direction of the female stereotype, he will be in a crisis of not fitting into any of the predefined shapes (penis + masculine personality, and vulva + feminine personality). The results will likely vary from person to person. Some mild cases will try and live with their condition, getting used to some discrimination. Some will painfully force themselves to behave in the way that's supposed to correspond with their sex, causing tons of insecurities and complexes. Some will discover the possibility and get attached to the idea that they were always meant to be the other sex&gender to begin with, and must become a member of it now. And it's no surprise that only few will get the idea to attack the very fabric and thinking-framework of their culture, with regard to these issues. It requires a deeper thinking, and it leads to a massive challenge against the whole society and its norms. Yes, the society massively discriminates against those who try to become a member of the other sex/gender, but at the very least that sex/gender is a valid, existing one in the culture, so one still has the possibility to just steer towards it. Trying to abolish the *whole* mentality underlying the whole topic is presumably a lot more difficult, hence the higher frequency of transgender individuals as opposed to gender-critical and radically gender non-conforming individuals.
>>5487631
Any peer reviews here?
>>5487501
I thought it's body dysmorphia, but now that I read the Wikipedia article that I reach via that term, I'm not so sure?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder
Claiming that a transgender individual "just has BDD" might even be considered an attack akin to claims of AGP, if I read that article right?
>>5487644
BDD: seeing the body as something it isn't and feeling shitty about it (being convinced your fat when you have a BMI of 14)
gender dysphoria: being uncomfortable about how your body is. you are male, you know it, life is shit, cuz you wish you were female.
>>5487661
I see. I've been misusing the term for a long time then. I'll say "sex dysphoria" instead which I think is fairly clear. ("Sex" refers to biological sex, so it's also more precise than simply "body dysphoria".)
>>5487655
>Even in this very day, western culture views women as being deeply inferior.
Yet trans women transition younger and younger on average. In a lot of societies they did in their teens and 20s when the average age at srs in the US was 50. Hell, they did it that way in the west too, just more discretely, even in the 30s-50s.
Your 100% constructivist theory is shit and was always shit.
>>5487631
okay, gotcha.
how do you explain the existence mtf transitioners that want to look like tomboys or femmy ftms with your hypothesis?
how do you explain people who've been confident and encouraged by their environment to act however they want to transition?
how do you explain that people want to transition after years of therapy to maybe overcome them gender stereotypes? do you think science/therapists has never thought of this before? do you think this is a "new" hypothesis?
how do you explain all these people that do not act non-gender conforming but without gender dysphoria?
how do you explain gender dysphoria affecting only such a small portion of the population even though gender stereotypes are everywhere and nobody can escape?
i'm sure there's more things you need to get in line with your hypothesis but i can't think of any more right now.
>>5487729
>how do you explain that people want to transition after years of therapy
'how do you explain that people are still gender dysphoric...
i think switching "want to transition" with "are gender dysphoric" makes more sense in general actually.
>>5487729
>how do you explain gender dysphoria affecting only such a small portion of the population even though gender stereotypes are everywhere and nobody can escape?
Terfs have been pretty much convinced since the 80s that 0.5% of the world population effectively dominates the discourse on gender to the point of secretly pulling the strings everywhere in the world
We're basically jews to the radscum, longing for the ancient hijra homeland.
>>5486238
Just stay on HRT then
Having boobs is pretty fun, and you will stay twinkish for a lot longer
>>5487942
The lack of erections, ejaculating and no sex drive will make you crazy though.
>>5487966
Why would it make me crazy?
Not getting random boners is great, it's uncomfortable when it happens in public. Can still jerk off and get lewd if you want
>>5487725
I have no idea how what you say is supposed to relate to what I said.
Western culture views women as being deeply inferior, up to this day. There is concrete evidence for this, as it surfaces in the form of hiring discrimination and performance rating bias.
How is the age of transitioning going down related to this?
>>5487996
>There is concrete evidence for this
lel
>>5487729
>how do you explain the existence mtf transitioners that want to look like tomboys or femmy ftms with your hypothesis?
As far as I understand, they nevertheless take on an identity that is culturally accepted as being a female identity. The "tomboy" identity even has this concise term to refer to it. I don't know what exactly "MtF who want to look like femmy FtMs" is though.
>encouraged by their environment to act however they want
That doesn't reverse the exposition to ubiquitous gender stereotypes.
>people want to transition after years of therapy to maybe overcome them gender stereotypes? do you think science/therapists has never thought of this before? do you think this is a "new" hypothesis?
As far as I know, we never managed to create a culture where gender binary stereotypes don't exist. I don't see how therapists can solve this issue for an individual person.
>all these people that do not act non-gender conforming but without gender dysphoria
So many negatives in that sentence... Can you clarify? I'm failing to parse it, really.
>gender dysphoria affecting only such a small portion of the population even though gender stereotypes are everywhere
Most people cope with them through less drastic measures. Consider that for 30% of men, the stereotypes are naturally fitting anyway. For another 30%, they just get molded through upbringing to fit into the stereotype. Then maybe 20% or so just live with mild discrimination... And so on.
>>5487765
>Terfs have been pretty much convinced since the 80s that 0.5% of the world population effectively dominates the discourse on gender to the point of secretly pulling the strings everywhere in the world
You'll need to source that claim. I have yet to read Greer and Raymond, but I doubt they made any outright such claim.
>>5487996
fucking stop, female in the US = ez mode
>>5488012
>David R. Hekman and colleagues found that men receive significantly higher customer satisfaction scores than equally well-performing women. Customers who viewed videos featuring a female and a male actor playing the role of an employee helping a customer were 19% more satisfied with the male employee's performance and also were more satisfied with the store's cleanliness and appearance although the actors performed identically, read the same script, and were in exactly the same location with identical camera angles and lighting. In a second study, they found that male doctors were rated as more approachable and competent than equally well performing female doctors.
>Similarly, a study (2000) conducted by economic experts Claudia Goldin from Harvard University and Cecilia Rouse from Princeton University shows that when evaluators of applicants could see the applicant's gender they were more likely to select men. When the applicants gender could not be observed, the number of women hired significantly increased.[78][79]
>Research finds that work by men is often subjectively seen as higher-quality than objectively equal or better work by women compared to how an actual scientific review panel measured scientific competence when deciding on research grants. The results showed that female scientists needed to be at least twice as accomplished as their male counterparts to receive equal credit[82] and that among grant applicants men have statistically significant greater odds of receiving grants than equally qualified women.[83]
>Perceptions of wage entitlement differ between women and men such that men are more likely to feel worthy of higher pay.[120][121][122][123][124][125][126] while women's sense of wage entitlement is depressed.[127][128]
etc.
>>5488056
I'm not sure I see your point. How is it remotely relevant when trans women are also treated that way.
>>5488055
For mostly white, genetically pretty, middle- and upper-class women, who manage to scoop a medium to rich guy who doesn't emotionally or physically abuse his wife, maybe.
Not a very high percentage of women, I'd guess.
>>5488070
>I'd guess
You'd be wrong, but keep the fantasy alive.
>>5488066
Since when did we turn to Oppression Olympics again? Someone implied there isn't bias favoring men in western culture, that's all. It has nothing directly to do with the topic. It started with >>5487600 asking >>5487538 why he/she "views women as inferior" when in fact he/she obviously just pointed out that the culture does that.
>>5488072
>You'd be wrong
It's literally single digit percentages. The terfs being retarded doesn't mean you're not an idiot, robot.
>>5488085
Thank you.
Fuck this "TERF" label though. It lost all meaning at this point.
>>5488085
Single digits? No. Stop. You are not posting facts you are just being stupid.
>>5487973
Wait till it all stops cause all the testosterone is being blocked.
Doctors still haven't figured out how to stimulate a balanced endocrine system.
