>tfw political lesbian
Who else knows this feeling?
I'm a natural lesbian. What's it like, being a political lesbian? How did you come to it? Do you enjoy sex? Do you "learn" to find women attractive? I've always been very curious. how that works. I could never be a political hetero, if there were such a thing.
So you choose to be gay huh? This gives me hope that I can successfully convert others to know this freedom.
>>5439811
Not OP, but I'm a "political lesbian." Technically I'm bi, but I just plain don't date men.
A. going alone forever resentment of MGTOW
+
B. being gay is a choice meme of religious fundies
=
C. doing great justice shitlord!
Its the womens version of men going their own way.
Its a shitty thing to do because it reinforces the idea fundies have that being gay is a decision. This hurts the LGBT community even more.
Truth be told these people probably don't care who they hurt. I've only met one political lesbian in my life and she was incredibly unpleasant to be around, drove away all but a handful of her friends. Also she did this weird thing where any time I was around she would glare at me. I have no idea why either, we never spoke and anytime we did you could hear the disdain in her voice. Thankfully the friend that introduced me to her got tired of her shit and now I don't have to see her.
>>5439835
That makes sense. I don't think I'd want to date men if I were bi, either.
>>5439811
I'm OP. I'm bi, but I've just kind of grown to despise men, so I really just try to avoid them all ways I can.
The sex is fine, women have always been attractive.
>>5439862
>grown to despise men
In what ways, anon?
>>5439862
Yeah, I didn't even consider bi. That makes the most sense. No need to wrestle with attraction problems or whatever, you can just not date men and be good to go.
>>5439870
>In what ways, anon?
I haven't met a man who somewhere deep down doesn't believe that women are inferior. They are sexist in general. They want nothing but to posses women entirely, tearing them from other women. Most of them are inherently violent (they are worse than niggers). It is literally impossible for them to not sexualize women to the point of not seeing them as full people unless they are gay. They are boorish and gross in general. Most of them are pathetic betas, so all of the redeeming qualities one thinks of when they think of a man aren't there in most men.
There's more, but this is probably long and ranty sounding enough as it is.
>>5439949
I literally read that all by accident as if you were saying women deep down believe all that. It totally works both ways. Weird.
>>5439949
>violent
Isn't that mostly a lesbian problem though?
>>5439949
If you're going to start a rant about how all men are evil, one of your complaints shouldn't be that they are sexist.
>>5440050
>Mic dropped
>>5440050
Men started it, and they are objectively worse. Sexism against men is fine.
>>5440100
>Mic picked up and shoved deep in own asshole
>>5440100
This board is parody right
Transgederism and being gay is just a phase right
Why am I in bizzaro world
>>5439949
>men
>the boring gender
There may be some things wrong with men, but I'll be dammed if we don't create 90+% of the arts, and 95+% of the engieenring, nearly 100% of the laws / rules, set up socoety, play sports and vidya competitivly infront of huge crowds, fight in war, work on cars, slap sense into our family's and make most of the money
But I'm sure your tumblr blog is pretty interesting to
>>5440144
>oppress a group of people for all of history and basically keeps them as docile slaves
>still have the audacity to mock them for having only a little independent culture and development
>>5440135
We aren't all that dumb, plz. I also think s/he was joking
>>5440144
> but I'll be dammed if we don't create 90+% of the arts, and 95+% of the engieenring, nearly 100% of the laws / rules, set up socoety, play sports and vidya competitivly infront of huge crowds, fight in war, work on cars, slap sense into our family's and make most of the money
If you expect people not to blame you for shooting up schools, raping children, or dictatorships - then don't try to claim you are responsible for creating art, cars, and what other retarded shit you listed. This site is for 18+
>>5439949
>I haven't met a man who somewhere deep down doesn't believe that women are inferior
>I haven't met a man as delusional as me
>>5440308
>If you expect people not to blame you for shooting up schools, raping children, or dictatorships - then don't try to claim you are responsible for creating art, cars, and what other retarded shit you listed
But we expect men to be blamed for this also. Men do everything relevant in the world, be it right or wrong. Women just sit there and enjoy the show.
>>5440318
This is what I hate about autists. They have this gap in their brain, some sort of incapacity to think, a defect that makes them believe being born with a more common chromosome means they are entitled to everything someone they never met created hundreds of years ago. A woman brewed the first beer. Does that mean I made beer? That everyone should acknowledge my importance because someone long dead I have no relation to made something? No. That makes zero sense. But there you have it. Autists are dumb enough to use this method to soothe their lack of self-worth.
>>5439949
As a radfem ally male, +999 to everything you say.
I fucking loath men (in general).
Looking forward to the day I'll find a radfem gf to cuddle and hate men together.
>>5439968
>It totally works both ways. Weird.
Not weird. Patriarchy.
>>5439751
Just FYI I hate you.
When you inevitably suddenly decide you love the cock after all you're just going to be continuing the overwhelming cultural opinion that 'all lesbians secretly want a dick'.
So thanks for that you fuck
>>5440409
Because that's the thing.
Not all political lesbians are that open.
Also yes, a lot of people are regarded and conflate actual lesbians with misandrist politicals.
If you people would stop sayin it then there'd be no problem.
Just say you're bi, like you are, but don't like men. Problem solved.
'Political lesbian' is an even bigger turn off than just 'bi'.
>>5440415
The whole point is to make a political point.
>>5440421
Id appreciate it if you didn't appropriate my sexuality to make a political fucking point, thanks
>>5439751
>I could never be a political hetero, if there were such a thing.
Political lesbians aren't actually lesbians. It's all an act for SJ points. Every political lesbian is either straight and just abstaining from sex or a a bisexual pretending to be homosexual. political lesbianism is just a silly FGTOW movement where feminist admit that they generalize and hate men and inadvertently enforces the belief that being gay is a choice
>>5440431
Are you a reverse troll?
What's the point of calling oneself a *political* lesbian if not to make a political point?
>>5440432
For some reason I have absolutely no fucking problem understanding the difference between biological sexual orientation and intentional sexual orientation.
Maybe you should work on getting that through people's skulls instead of blame women.
>>5440433
Can you not read?
I'm a cis dyke and I'm sick of you fuckers pretending to be lesbians to make a political point.
It's obnoxious as fuck.
>>5440440
Oh so you simply don't want to accept the notion of intentional sexual orientation.
It would be great if you would shape your world-view to fit reality rather than trying to shape reality to fit into your world-view.
>>5440445
>political lesbians aren't women
>>5440451
So when you said "blaming women" you didn't mean blaming the gender you meant blaming those particular women?
>>5440454
I'm implying that there's little difference. It just seems like a continuation of trends like:
- Tell women to take precautions against rape instead of focusing on the problem that is men.
- Tell women to dress and behave different to prevent sexual harassment (even in the workplace) instead of focus on the problem that is men.
- Blame women for unwanted pregnancy as if men don't know how impregnation works.
And so on.
It's not something done intentionally. It's just that everyone is so used to men being idiots and lacking all sympathy that it seems common sense that the onus to fix things lies on women.
>>5440444
Great, just give the right wing even more ammo to say we're choosing to be gay.
No, please do carry on being that shitty a person.
>>5440477
Some people are choosing to be gay. Is it their fault that some other people don't want to understand that some people are choosing to be gay and some people are gay?
Besides, what if homosexuality *were* entirely a choice? Would that justify discriminating against homosexuals?
>>5440474
Are you really comparing pretending to be gay with being sexually harassed and raped? All those examples are of things that are done to women when this thread is about women doing something to others. Nobody was blaming political lesbians of being political lesbians because of their gender. I'm not even sure what exactly you're accusing me of blaming them of. You came completely out of left field with this "#notallwomen" crap and started making these false equivalencies. The person being raped or harassed is not choosing to be raped or harassed. The person who's a political lesbian made that choice and can choose to not be one anytime they want
>>5440489
Since when have the right wing needed actual REAL justifications to hate us? They can come up with their own just die without feeding them more.
And the thing is, they're not choosing to be gay.
They're not gay.
They're choosing to behave in a gay manner, and entering into gay relationships on false pretenses.
Lesbianism isn't just a fucking badge you can wear as a statement about 'omg I just super don't like guys you know'
>>5440489
>Some people are choosing to be gay.
Being gay is not a choice you homophobe
>Would that justify discriminating against homosexuals?
It would validate straight conversion therapy
>>5440492
This post shows how deeply the acceptance of LGBT harassment goes into your subconscious. You flat-out deny it that it's an *external* problem that LGBT are being harassed by *others* with claims such as "lesbians are all fake."
Claims such as "lesbians are all faking it and really want to have sex with men" is a sexist stereotype put forth by *men*. Instead of blaming these men for that problem, you are blaming political lesbians because the fact of their existence may be *abused* by said men to further propagate their lie about lesbians.
>>5440495
>Since when have the right wing needed actual REAL justifications to hate us? They can come up with their own just die without feeding them more.
So why are you obsessed over whether they can "prove" that it is or isn't a choice?
>They're not gay.
What do you call a woman who doesn't have sexual relationships with men, and has sexual relationships with women?
I call her a lesbian, or a homosexual woman.
If it comes out that the majority of homosexual women share a biological trait of only finding women attractive, and a minority of them choose intentionally only to have sex with women, then that would warrant a sub-categorization of lesbians, such as biological lesbians and political lesbians.
Makes sense?
>>5440498
>Being gay is not a choice you homophobe
As evidenced by the existence of political lesbians and some MGTOW, one can choose to be gay when one is not biologically gay.
Acknowledging this material fact is not homophobia.
>It would validate straight conversion therapy
Why would the existence of some people choosing to be gay validate conversion therapy of biological gays?
And the choice-gays would be openly politically opposed to it based on their explicit choice to be gay, so it would not be justifiable for them either, lest you accept laws that force sexual behavior on people.
>>5440521
No it doesn't make sense.
They are not lesbians.
They are behaving in a lesbian way, by eschewing relationships with men, but they're not lesbians.
Hell not all of them are even no, so you have straight girls pretending to be gay because they don't like icky boys ;((((((
It's fucking despicable appropriation.
>>5439973
Checkm8.
Lesbian couples have a ton of domestic violence
>>5440521
Telling people how to avoid crap is not victim blaming. It's never anyone's fault when their home is broken into but telling people to get some kind of security system isn't victim blaming. It's never anyone's fault when they get hit by a car but telling people to look both ways when crossing the street is victim blaming. It's never anyone's fault when they get kidnapped but that doesn't mean that telling kids to not talk to strangers is blaming the kid.
>>5439949
>I haven't met a man who somewhere deep down doesn't believe that women are inferior.
Sounds like projection.
>They are sexist in general.
That is a sexist remark, oh the irony
>They want nothing but to posses women entirely, tearing them from other women. Most of them are inherently violent (they are worse than niggers).
Sounds like more projection.
>They are boorish and gross in general. Most of them are pathetic betas, so all of the redeeming qualities one thinks of when they think of a man aren't there in most men.
More blatant sexism. Pretty great example why people have a negative connotation with political lesbians. Imagine if political gay man said all those things about women? They'd be the most deplorable womanhating MRA MGTOW but when you say it it's somehow perfectly okay? The lack of self-awareness is astounding.
>>5440529
>No it doesn't make sense.
How does it not make sense to call a woman who doesn't have sex with men and has sex with women a lesbian?
>They are not lesbians.
Not according to your definition, no, but I don't think you have the authority over the English language to make this decision. Everyone is going to call them lesbians, because "woman who has sex with women and not men" is "lesbian" in everyone's mind.
>appropriation
It would be appropriation if they pretended/claimed that all lesbians are political lesbians.
>>5440545
No, telling them how to avoid crap is not immediately victim blaming, but in this thread we aren't dealing with an individual who has/had this problem, we are dealing with the question of how to *generally* prevent the problem of lies being spread about lesbians.
>>5440492
You're being mansplained at. Enjoy.
>>5440557
"Oh, it's okay.
I'm not a lesbian, I'm not into woman, I face literally none of the problems lesbians face for being gay since I have only chosen to do this in adulthood and can choose to stop whenever I like.
But I'm TOTALLY a lesbian you guys! Sisterhood!"
No.
Fuck off.
It's the appropriation of an entire sexuality in an attempt to make a pathetic statement about how men have cooties.
Go fuck yourself.
>>5440561
Not that anon but doesn't that just mean you concede all points?
>>5439949
Wow. Thank the gods that I love men and not women.
>>5440557
>we are dealing with the question of how to *generally* prevent the problem of lies being spread about lesbians.
We are dealing with people who think that by pointing out that their choice is validating homophobia that we're victim blaming. We're not. We're trying to reduce homophobia and then these Andrea Dworkin types show up and ruin things, again.
>>5440160
>women
>docile slaves
you are literally brainwashed
>>5440160
>the early human societies weren't matriarchal
>>5440563
>I face literally none of the problems lesbians face for being gay since I have only chosen to do this in adulthood and can choose to stop whenever I like
So being a victim is an essential part of being a lesbian? What the fuck are you talking about? That's not even remotely relevant to being lesbian. Homosexual women are lesbians, the definition does not include that you had a hard time growing up or how exclusively homo you need to be.
>A lesbian is a female homosexual: a female who experiences romantic love or sexual attraction to other females.
>It's the appropriation of an entire sexuality
You do not own sexual orientation so it's not appropriation. Jesus fucking christ you're delusional.
>>5440573
I believe this too, but what is your reasoning?
Is it because women had more control over the home or their environment, or that women were even more valuable and thus seen as authority figures, or what?
>>5440577
>>A lesbian is a female homosexual: a female who experiences romantic love or sexual attraction to other females.
...so, political lesbians aren't lesbians then you say? Glad you agree
>>5440578
How could all women have been docile slaves of all of human history when a big chunk of our beginning was ruled by women? Also keep in mind that in most Northern and Western European per-Abrahamic cultures women were equals or superiors. The idea that women have been oppressed for all of human history or even most of human history requires a complete eraser of everything that happened before Christianity took over the west and everything outside the west
>>5440565
Nah. Not a lesbian of political or any other persuasion. I just find cis radfem dude's antics hilarious.
My making or refuting any points would be strictly academic, and a willful refusal to allow the lived experience of the lesbians in question carry the discussion. I'm not that arrogant.
>>5440585
No clue what you're referring to. Was just pointing out that >>5440563 is completely delusional and factually incorrect about what lesbianism is defined by. The wikipedia definition also includes:
>The term lesbian is also used to express sexual identity or sexual behavior regardless of sexual orientation, or as an adjective to characterize or associate nouns with female homosexuality or same-sex attraction.
>>5439949
>I haven't met a man who somewhere deep down doesn't believe that women are inferior.
anon this goes both ways i haven't met a woman either that didn't think they were the superior gender.
>Most of them are pathetic betas
this is my favorite when feminazis complain that men are not men anough
>>5440589
Mm. What would be an example?
>>5440530
makes sense majority of domestic violence is initiated by women. two women in a relationship. they will win this contest.
>>5440592
Regardless "mansplaining" is a completely mute statement. Might as well leave the entire field empty if you're not going to reply.
>>5440144
>There may be some things wrong with men
the fuck are you taking about?
>>5440561
Well, at the very least, I don't socialize with men, and my political ideas tend to come from women.
>>5440568
>by pointing out that their choice is validating homophobia that we're victim blaming
Their choice does not validate homophobia.
If you think that if homosexuality were a choice, that would justify discrimination against homosexuals, then you're in deep homophobic shit yourself.
I'm biologically hetero but if I choose to have sex with another male I will shit on anyone who wants to discriminate against me. I can choose to be behaviorally bisexual and nobody can stop me.
>>5440609
>If you think that if homosexuality were a choice, that would justify discrimination against homosexuals, then you're in deep homophobic shit yourself.
That is not what I think and is a odd interpretation. Not even sure how you got there. When a homophobic person sees someone pretending to choose to be gay they can point at them and say "see it is a choice! if they can choose to be gay you can choose to be straight! now get back to church, faggot!" and when they confused gay kid sees straight people choosing to be gay he starts to think that the bigot yelling at him is right. Unless political lesbians make it clear that they're not really lesbians and they're just pretending to be for political purposes you're validating the bigots
>>5440546
>Sounds like projection.
I'm male and I feel the same, especially since I know how men talk about women when women aren't present.
I have a coworker who uses the word "woman" as a fucking insult. Think about it.
>That is a sexist remark
Racism, sexism, etc. are structural issues. It's when one class of of people oppresses another class of people. If a woman observes that men are in general sexist in this society, that isn't her being sexist against men, because there is no sexism against men in the surrounding culture.
>Imagine if political gay man said all those things about women? They'd be the most deplorable womanhating MRA MGTOW but when you say it it's somehow perfectly okay?
I'd say it's mostly OK. Men oppress women, after all, not the other way around.
MFW cats.
>>5440626
>"see it is a choice! if they can choose to be gay you can choose to be straight! now get back to church, faggot!"
Your response should be "I could choose to force myself to be straight like that person is forcing themselves to be gay, but why the fuck should I do that?"
Was that so difficult?
I understand you want to use the "it's a biological trait" thing as a defense, but it's not the long-term solution.
>Unless political lesbians make it clear that they're not really lesbians
Whether you call it "real lesbianism" or "biological lesbianism" or "natural lesbianism" or "inborn lesbianism" doesn't really matter, does it?
>pretending
If a woman has sex with women and not men, I don't think she is "pretending" to be a lesbian. She is being a lesbian in the behavioral sense. Yes, I can understand that she is not biologically a lesbian, you don't need to repeat that another dozen times, but she is acting as a lesbian, "being" a lesbian, in terms of behavior, and I don't see what to call her other than a "lesbian."
I agree they should make it explicit that they are political lesbians. (Though you cannot expect them to make a long fucking explanation every time, or muster up the courage to say something like "I just choose to make relationships with women because I think men are inferior when it comes to making relationships." That would fucking mark her as a target of violence.)
>>5440627
lmfao what the actual fuck
>>5440627
>I'm male and I feel the same, especially since...
>A coworker and I are sexist assholes so that must mean all other men are too
Makes sense
>>5440609
>If you think that if homosexuality were a choice, that would justify discrimination against homosexuals
why? i don't care either way if you are a fag out of choice or out of need you are still a fag. and you have a right to be a fag.
human society requires only one thing from you that gays would have difficulty doing is to reproduce. simply because the crazed idea of constant economic growth and competition.
this can be worked around easily enough. you pay taxes as a childless individual and people that have children get a cut of your taxes and are recompensed of their efforts.
>>5440619
About as often as in straight relationships
>>5440627
>I'm male and I feel the same, especially since I know how men talk about women when women aren't present.
>I have a coworker who uses the word "woman" as a fucking insult. Think about it.
The exact same happens among women lol. Assholes are assholes, and I think I spotted one before.
>It's when one class of of people oppresses another class of people.
That's actually incorrect. It may be what the intersectional feminists WANT sexism/racism to mean so they can be blatantly sexist and racist towards white males but it doesn't make it any more justifiable - especially since they currently posses the societal muscle.
>If a woman observes that men are in general sexist in this society, that isn't her being sexist against men
It is, by definition, sexist.
>because there is no sexism against men in the surrounding culture.
That's also incorrect, there's just as much sexism against men as there is against women, the difference is that nobody takes sexism against men seriously. "You cant be sexist against men" sounds as wrong to my ear as "you cant be racist against niggers"
>Men oppress women, after all, not the other way around.
Factually incorrect. I can say that as a woman, we're equal to men in the eyes of society and we got a plethora of institutional, sexist advantages that are viewed as acceptable reason because 'sins of thy father' or some other nonsense like that. Look at right to genital integrity, custody rights, parenthood rights, 'positive discrimination' in STEM fields and the judicial system is HEAVILY biased against men. When you ask feminists what's wrong with society they say patriarchy and paygap, if you ask me that 4-6 cents on a dollar pales in comparison to what I listed before.
Personally I'm egalitarian, I thoroughly everyone's rights with complete gender and color blindness are in my best interest. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you and all that stuff.
Also yes, cats are great.
>>5440654
>I thoroughly BELIEVE everyone's rights with complete gender and color blindness are in my best interest.
woops, a typo
ITT: everybody is a fucking crybaby regardless of gender.
>>5440638
>A coworker and I
No, more like almost every man I've ever met.
What made you think it was just my coworker, and what made you think it's me?
>>5440654
>they currently posses the societal muscle
LOLno, women who speak out against sexism are still mass-ridiculed and silenced.
>It is, by definition, sexist.
Sexism: The belief that people of one sex or gender are inherently superior to people of the other sex or gender.
It is, by definition, not sexism.
>there's just as much sexism against men
There is no sexism against men, there is only the lateral damage done to men due to expectations of dominance etc. This is the fault of those who keep the sexism against women in place, not the women.
The rest of your post amounts to typical ignorance about feminist issues. You can read about the gender pay gap (especially in the USA) on Wikipedia, you can look at sexual harassment and assault rates anywhere, you can read analysis of people's mentality regarding what is normal and what isn't in sexuality, etc., and hopefully eventually you will understand the problems, but sadly sociology isn't so simple that when one so deeply believes that everything is fine, you can just show them "here, proof!" and they change their whole mind.
Some recommendations:
http://feministcurrent.com/
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/
http://radfem.org/
It was Andrea Dworkin's "Woman Hating" (free PDF in the last link above) that had me to the mental switch. You might want to start with that too.
It's pretty unpleasant though. Once you start seeing the sexism that absolutely permeates this society, you will not be able to unsee it anymore.
It might also help to look into the general population's mentality in times where racism, anti-semitism, or such things where the social norm. You will see a striking similarity to the kinds of denial of sexism that we see today.
>>5440683
>What made you think it was just my coworker,
Your coworker was the only example
>and what made you think it's me?
You think all men hate women and you said you're a man so...
>>5440713
>Your coworker was the only example
Why would you assume that, because I gave one extreme example, I must be lacking in other examples? What kind of logic is this?
>You think all men hate women and you said you're a man so...
So you are interested in willfully misinterpreting the things I say.
Care to provide me the quote where I said "all men hate women"?
So much for intellectual honesty. Give me a reason why I should continue debating with someone who is only interested in smearing the other side's opinion through deliberate misrepresentation of their ideas.
Maybe OP only needs a cute affeminate cishet BF to take care of her embittered heart.
>>5440683
>LOLno, women who speak out against sexism are still mass-ridiculed and silenced.
No they aren't. Feminism is openly supported movement despite the third wave being thoroughly sexist. MRA's on the other hand are considered a joke with 0 societal influence.
>Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender.
Reading comprehension. By definition, sexism.
>There is no sexism against men
I just provided examples and no, they are not caused by patriarchy, toxic masculinity or whatever boogeyman your particular brand of feminism believes in.
If you want to convince me of the validity of your arguments don't expect me to read your obviously biased source. I've said it before and I'll say it again, arguing with feminists is exactly like arguing with christians. When you doubt their claims and demand evidence they point towards their scripture for answers. I am not part of your cult so that shit has no value to me. I simply hold feminist claims to the same standard as any other claims, if that makes you throw a fit and tell me to educate myself that's your failure to back your claims up.
>You can read about the gender pay gap (especially in the USA) on Wikipedia
I recommend you do the same and this time read it entirely, not just the bits that support your position.
>It might also help to look into the general population's mentality in times where racism, anti-semitism, or such things where the social norm.
Exactly. Blatant sexism is tolerated against men and even when you agree they are getting shit you blame it on men. How is this any different from a racist fuck in the 50's saying that the reason black people face prejudice is because they're dumb violent niggers? And the fact you have to re-define sexism, prejudice and all that shit to shift blame away from yourself makes you only look all the more guilty in my eyes.
>>5440734
>I have no argument left so why I should I bother arguing it
Nice one m8
>>5440683
>you can look at sexual harassment and assault rates anywhere
And you can look at violent crime rates anywhere. Not only that but you can look at conviction rates for the same crimes, where all the variables are accounted for other than gender. Another fun tidbit about sexual violence: it's impossible for a woman to rape a man in many US states and many parts of europe unless they use something to penetrate the male. If that's not fucked up I don't know what is.
>>5440144
She never called men boring, you dumb dumb. If you don't know what a word is you should look it up before getting triggered by something no one ever said.
>>5440386
>Patriarchy.
it doesn't exists anymore than sky daddy
>>5440743
>Feminism is openly supported movement
That must be why people ask whether it's the new F-word, people are afraid of identifying themselves as feminist, you hear things like "excuse me if I'm being a bit feminist", and a rape-porn producer is being called a fucking feminist, because, I don't even fucking know why, because people know shitfuck about feminism and use it as a crass fashion statement I guess. (Same guy came out to be a serial rapist, of course.)
See also GamerGate.
But at least they cannot be publicly persecuted anymore, which is a big improvement.
>prejudice or discrimination
Acknowledging that men in general are sexist is not prejudice nor discrimination.
>I just provided examples
You have listed problems that primarily exist for men, but not because of sexism against them. In the middle ages, it was considered bestiality and punishable to sleep with a Jew. This was obviously not racism against non-Jews. That's an extreme example, but you get the idea.
>genital integrity
Circumcision is medically mostly neutral in outcome. (Female genital mutilation is comparable to chopping off a guy's whole dick, in comparison, in case you wonder. It almost *certainly* leaves you sexually crippled and gets frequently infected.)
>custody rights, parenthood rights
It's a fact that men are statistically more likely to abuse children. Other than that, gender stereotypes about women being naturally good mothers plays a role here. This same gender stereotype hurts women in a myriad of ways.
>no, they are not caused by patriarchy, toxic masculinity or whatever
You asserting that doesn't make it so. Have you read any feminist classics, or taken courses on women's issues? What are your credentials that make you so confident in the rightness of your perspective on this matter?
I assert a lot of stuff, because this is 4chan and arrogance wins you "points", but you'll notice that very often I just redirect people to other sources...
>>5440778
People are afraid to identify as feminist not becaus feminists are prejudiced end against but because of radfem fucks giving us all a bad name
>>5440743
>your obviously biased source
What criteria do you have to decide on bias, other than "does or doesn't validate my already held opinion"?
>their scripture
Books written 30 years ago listing women's personal and political struggles, the outcome of their studies, and their deconstruction of our cultural norms doesn't equate to religious scripture.
And I keep saying this: expecting some clear-cut "evidence" of deeply rooted societal problems is extremely intellectually immature. If it were that easy, why do you think racism would have ever existed? Why do you think anti-semitism would have ever existed? Why did black liberationists have so hard of a time proving that their struggle is legitimate, and the problem they're pointing out a real, serious problem?
The first thing I think when I hear "political lesbian" is "extreme leftist who admires Karl Marx".
>>5440743
>Blatant sexism is tolerated against men
Can you give me any examples of blatant sexism against men being tolerated?
>How is this any different from a racist fuck in the 50's saying that the reason black people face prejudice is because they're dumb violent niggers?
The difference is that there is a deeply rooted insidious disdain against woman in the culture in which we're living, and the same was the case for blacks back then, and the same is not the case for men. A more apt comparison would be a black liberationist saying "white people are racist in general", in a time like 1950 (where this was in fact true).
>>5440771
That's like saying Capitalism doesn't exist any more than sky daddy.
>>5440819
i'm not sure that capitalism exists
we are living in socialist societies of various degrees
>>5440824
And then there's *this* retard.
>>5440778
>Circumcision is medically mostly neutral in outcome.
except not and cutting off a guys dick would indeed even more horrible but mutilation is mutilation.
i don't even agree with infants ears to be pierced that is mutilation too. she can decide that on her own if she grown up.
>>5440830
in a capitalist society the poor would be persecuted or left to their own devices not supported. in a capitalist society people that can't pay for their medical treatment would be left alone to die. in a capitalist society children would be part of the workforce. in a capitalist society there would be no anti-monopoly and anti-cartel laws. and so on...
>>5440834
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Effects
>A 2014 review found that the benefits of circumcising an infant outweigh the risks of doing so by at least 100 to 1, and that "over their lifetime, half of uncircumcised males will require treatment for a medical condition associated with retention of the foreskin."[37]
>Circumcision has a protective effect against the risks of penile cancer in men, and cervical cancer in the female sexual partners of heterosexual men.
>Neonatal circumcision is generally safe when done by an experienced practitioner.[63]
>Circumcision does not appear to decrease the sensitivity of the penis, harm sexual function or reduce sexual satisfaction.[21][66] A 2013 systematic review and meta-analysis found that circumcision did not appear to adversely affect sexual desire, pain with intercourse, premature ejaculation, time to ejaculation, erectile dysfunction or difficulties with orgasm.[67] Another 2013 systematic review found that the highest-quality studies reported no adverse effects of circumcision on sexual function, sensitivity, sensation or satisfaction.[22]
>>5440839
>it's not capitalism unless there's child labor and mass starvation
>>5440842
i read into the study they cite as source smells like the biggest pile of jewbiased horseshit.
only murricans and jews bleive circumcision offers any benefits the rest off the medical world just shakes head. in norway they want to ban circumcision for the jews too.
but keep on spreading the biased kike propaganda.
it's painful unnecessary and comes with great loss of sensation and a lot of deformities.
>muh 1 in 5 women raped in college
>muh patriarchy in western culture
>muh fat acceptance
>muh manspreading
>muh 95% of harassment online is women
>muh 75 ¢ on the dollar
I can't respect modern feminism focusing on western culture when all it complains about is total bullshit. I'm fine with people talking about needing schools for women in Africa and the middle east but if you think women are actually oppressed in America your opinion is trash.
>>5440842
based on this you could routinely remove female infants clitoral hood without anesthetics.
or remove all infants appendix as it will then not get inflamed later in life. yes let's cut open all babies i'm sure the benefits outweigh the risks.
also btw males might catch hiv a tiny bit harder if they are circumcised but if they have hiv then they will pass it on to females with a greater chance. because with a circumcised penis there is greater friction and more damage is done to the vaginal wall and the tiny tiny little tears is where you catch the hiv.
not to mention claims making it safer might result in unsafer sexual practices among cut men. again that would be a huge problem for the women.
interesting for a feminist to advocate a procedure that might benefit men but will disadvantage women.
>>5440866
I believe that women in modern western society still suffer from numerous stereotypes, positive and negative, that restrict and pressure them to live, act, and respond in ways that are at odds with their best interests.
I believe that employers feeling justified in only providing appreciable parental leave to mothers, and usually a small fraction of that to fathers, is a product of sexism that is harmful to men and women both, and also children. It hinders women in attainment of employment because of the (self-justified) fear that they may get pregnant at any time and be away from work for much longer than a comparably experienced man.
I believe that sexist narratives permeate our media, our culture, and our legal apparatus. I don't believe the ones that ostensibly benefit women are any less grotesque.
>>5440888
>Medical organizations in England, Canada, Australia, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, and Germany all oppose routine infant circumcision on medical grounds. Several national medical organizations go further and suggest that infant circumcision constitutes a violation of human rights.
it's just the jews and murricans that are trying to spill spaghetti everywhere. i'm seriously disappointed in who and cdc both for giving in to the jews. there are big bucks in circumcision it's a nice steady income also there are facial creams and whatnot made of the little flabs of skins.
>“The ultimate popularity of circumcision depended not on convincing normal men to undergo the ordeal of surgery, but on targeting a group of patients who could not object.”
yeah i can see how this could be expanded a little there are serious market potentials here.
>>5440899
>believe that women in modern western society still suffer from numerous stereotypes, positive and negative, that restrict and pressure them to live, act, and respond in ways that are at odds with their best interests.
That applies to everyone and no one is forced to follow them.
>>5439751
"Political lesbian" sounds like a contemptible faggoty tumblr term.
>>5440917
Yes. And a thing not being as bad as it can possibly be has never made that thing "good". "Needs work" is not the point to start patting society on the back.
>>5440865
>m-m-m-muh JEWZZZ
>>5440888
>>5440905
If you can get your head out of the typical /pol/ black and white thinking, let me say that I don't support routine infant circumcision. However, when it's done, it generally doesn't have any adverse effects comparable to FGM, and has even some benefits.
If you want to go on a crusade against circumcision, don't expect to be taken nearly as seriously as the crusade against FGM, and don't ascribe to "sexism against males."
Also don't ever expect anyone to take you seriously when you scream JEWS! And I'm not saying that because I doubt there is bias in Jewish (and e.g. Turkish) research about circumcision.
>>5440925
Political lesbian has been a term since long before tumblr, you retard
>>5440944
It still sounds stupid as fuck.
>>5440917
this
>men don't get stereotyped at all
like "all men are rapists" and "men don't cry" "men should man the fuck up" and so on...
i actually enjoy the male stereotype i feel comfortable in it. and now i can see the reason it exists.
it was not always so when i was younger i hated the entire thing but i grew up and i mean really grew up. i used to be a scrawny small child and had to endure tons of bullying. that really helped to develop a thick skin and an attitude that comes handy in unexpected dangerous situations. i men of course everybody hates bullies and it fucking sucks to get bullied. but it does help understand a lot of things about the world and people in general and your place in all of this. also my manly appearance had helped deescalate potentially dangerous situations before so that is also a plus.
this is why i pity the fags that try to avoid every tiny little upsetness or feeling of discomfort and demand safe spaces and such. don't think there are safe spaces in life. don't think it's possible.
don't think even a large powerful male like (who likes to walk armed to the teeth btw) me can avoid feeling unsafe or even threatened or in danger. the only difference is i know what i can do about it (same as any women really only i have an extra fallback option) instead of just whining about it.
only locked into a solitary cell you are safe from others.
>>5440937
>I don't support routine infant circumcision
thank god you don't support mutilation of unconsenting people.
>it generally doesn't have any adverse effects
that is so not true
>comparable to FGM
at least that part is true fgm is fucking savage thing and nobody condones it in the developed world.
>and has even some benefits
again fucking not true or at least seriously questionable. you probably are not very familiar with the studies certain people base their pro-circ views uhm it was a series of studies that actual jew doctors did in africa the studies were seriously problematic in design unable by their circumstances to give any different result, had no proper follow up at all and spread a dangerous idea of sexual irresponsibility for circumcised males.
basically if i want to tldr the studies they chopped half of the negroes foreskin and they went back to checkups for the surgery and whatnot where there was not only a lot of sex ed materials and opportunities but free condoms also and the study period basically encompassed their recuperation period from the surgery. so basically they had way less opportunities to have sex than their control group because their fucking penis was chopped up.
that should give you an idea how much wight most of the medical world puts in these studies. if you only read the conclusions it sounds impressive but still dubious but if you know how it went down you can't help but scoff at it.
>>5440937
>If you want to go on a crusade against circumcision, don't expect to be taken nearly as seriously as the crusade against FGM
so there is two practice that you make distinction of
one is female genital mutilation which is not a widespread or even legal practice in the western or developed world
and there is an other the male genital mutilation that is both !legal! and enormously widespread and in the us even encouraged by the health authorities (which is the true travesty here)
but you don't think anyone should "crusade" against the latter rather concentrate efforts on the first one. the one that we men living in the western world can't fucking influence because he people who do it are not fucking listening. they can't hear us.
Look. I'm circumcised, along with my brothers and father. I'm American and an atheist. Doesn't matter what religion or ethnically you are in America, if you are a boy you are most likely. It's just the way we do it here.
It's almost required to be circumcised where I live. Not a single gay man, including myself, would suck off a uncut penis.
Plus there are numerous medical benefits to circumcision.
I can't help but feel that all this complaining about circumcision is coming from uncut men with insecurity problems. Not sure where lesbians or bisexual women stand on the issue of circumcision.
I think Dan Savage sums it up best.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=2269
>When you claim that "a man loses much of his capacity for sexual pleasure when he's cut," all the cut guys out there reading your letter -- guys like me and my boyfriend and most every guy we know, gay and straight -- think, "Hey, I'm cut, and I derive plenty of 'sexual pleasure' from my cock. These anti-circumcision crybabies are full of shit." And comparing male circumcision (the removal of the foreskin) to female genital mutilation (the removal of the clitoris) doesn't help, either. Removing the clit is comparable to cutting off the head of the penis, not the foreskin, and comparing the two procedures comes off as cheap, "me too" victim mongering. A little less hysteria, a little less overstatement, and a lot less anti-Semitic rhetoric, and anti-cutting forces might change more people's minds.
>>5441014
well i'm not going to tell you you should feel like e a victim.
but couple of points needs addressing
>Not a single gay man, including myself, would suck off a uncut penis.
i'm pretty sure no european gays suck each other off in fact the can't even look at their own penis.
>Plus there are numerous medical benefits to circumcision.
yeah this is the part where educated men call bullshit. but the mantra gets repeated. there is no proof if there was proof the european canadan and all other medical organizations would acknowledge it. science tends to work like that.
>I can't help but feel that all this complaining about circumcision is coming from uncut men with insecurity problems.
that is just plain silly we mostly just feel superior (ironically same as cutfags)
>Not sure where lesbians or bisexual women stand on the issue of circumcision.
european women don't give a fuck about it murrican and jewish women might prefer cut same as fags.
mra guys only feel so strongly about circumcision because it's a fine example of feminist double standards and a fine example how mens suffering is laughed at instead of sympathized with while womens suffering is dramatized to the fullest extent.
1 billion little boy that was violated and mutilated is just keks you are over-inflating the issue! a single baby girl violated and mutilated a world tragedy!!
>>5440927
>Yes. And a thing not being as bad as it can possibly be has never made that thing "good". "Needs work" is not the point to start patting society on the back.
I never said any of what you're replying to, if it weren't for the quote I'd say you replied to the wrong post.
>>5441035
>well i'm not going to tell you you should feel like e a victim.
That's all you anti-cutters do.
>i'm pretty sure no european gays suck each other off in fact the can't even look at their own penis.
I'm just saying. If a guy had to choose between a cut or uncut to suck off, I think they would choose the cut.
>yeah this is the part where educated men call bullshit. but the mantra gets repeated. there is no proof if there was proof the european canadan and all other medical organizations would acknowledge it. science tends to work like that.
UN WHO, AAP, and CDC, are all well known and respected medical organizations that endorse circumcision
>that is just plain silly we mostly just feel superior (ironically same as cutfags)
How are you superior? I can last hours and hours on end. When I cum, the first thing I think of is "man I sure wish I was uncut." No it's "OHHH GODDDD"
>european women don't give a fuck about it murrican and jewish women might prefer cut same as fags.
It's because we have better taste in cock.
>mra guys only feel so strongly about circumcision because it's a fine example of feminist double standards and a fine example how mens suffering is laughed at instead of sympathized with while womens suffering is dramatized to the fullest extent.
I don't know what MRA position is on circumcision, but saying it's all feminist women who are circumcising babies is bullshit.
>1 billion little boy that was violated and mutilated is just keks you are over-inflating the issue! a single baby girl violated and mutilated a world tragedy!!
I wasn't "mutilated". My parents would never hurt me.
>>5441014
>Hey, I'm cut, and I derive plenty of 'sexual pleasure' from my cock.
is not an argument against loss, there's whats called the seen and the unseen
dan savage, as in most things, is a hack on circumcision
there's no real benefits to circumcision that outweigh the risk
there lots of gay men that like uncut penises in america, appealing to perceived popularity isn't an argument either
i'm circumcised and i wish i wasn't
>>5441111
>is not an argument against loss,
It's all based off perception. You can't lose something you never had.
>there's no real benefits to circumcision that outweigh the risk
AAP, WHO, and CDC all disagree.
>there lots of gay men that like uncut penises in america,
That's why over 90% of all American porn is cut porn?
>i'm circumcised and i wish i wasn't
Wear your circumcision with pride like me.
>>5439949
I kind of feel the same way, I don't hate men and there are some men that I honestly think are good people, but it seems like there is a very strong tendency among men to view women as nothing more than sex objects and to feel that violence is an appropriate response to situations. Like lesbians are pretty violent too, however it seems to be primarily men who think that it's justified to beat their wife if she cheats on them, or to kill a girl if they find out she has a dick. And the fact that men associate being "alpha" with being violent, aggressive, and misogynistic doesn't help either. I like to think that these traits are only found in a small minority of men, but as time goes on I'm finding it harder and harder to keep believing it.
>>5441124
its like an 8% lower chance of getting AIDS you dumb faggot
>>5441108
>That's all you anti-cutters do.
yeah it's a real shame, there is no way tackling this problem without insulting a lot of people.
>I think they would choose the cut.
totally customary or cultural like i said it only exists in your head
>UN WHO, AAP, and CDC, are all well known and respected medical organizations that endorse circumcision
actually who states it might be beneficial in hiv infested shit-holes they do not explicitly endorse it cdc does and it's a damn shame aap categorically refused all along to recommend routine circumcision. there you go a bunch of retards making noise does not make it universally acceptable truth.
>How are you superior?
i just feel so, it doesn1t have to be objective. i feel i have a more healthy and fulfilling sex life with my intact penis.
>but saying it's all feminist women who are circumcising babies is bullshit.
noo don't be silly it's just a fine example how the don't give a fuck about mens issues.
did you know tho that many circumcision is performed by female doctors and almost all female genital mutilation is performed by females? they are handy with the knife them bitches.
>My parents would never hurt me.
but they objectively did anon... it's okay most men deal with it the same way you do.
>>5441134
debatable
the most important statistics to consider that where circumcision is widespread the hiv infection is also widespread.
i'm not saying there is causation but there is correlation. directly contradicting the idea that spread off hiv can be slowed down or decreased by circumcision.
>>5440843
Well, they're right.
>>5441150
well to put it more correctly countries that routinely circumcise do not show less prevalence of stds or show even more.
us is the best showcase.
>>5441140
>yeah it's a real shame, there is no way tackling this problem without insulting a lot of people.
Can't we have a civilized conversion about this?
>totally customary or cultural like i said it only exists in your head
So if I went to Europe (or where ever you are from) all the guys there (and girls) would love to suck my cut cock?
>there you go a bunch of retards making noise does not make it universally acceptable truth.
WHO is a UN organization. Are you saying the UN is wrong now?
>i just feel so, it doesn1t have to be objective. i feel i have a more healthy and fulfilling sex life with my intact penis.
Well that's super anon, however you don't know what it's like to be circumcised, so you can't speak on it.
>fine example how the don't give a fuck about mens issues.
It's not a "men's issue" it's a health issue. We have a serious outbreak of STDs in the LGBT community.
>did you know tho that many circumcision is performed by female doctors
I don't care who cut me.
>but they objectively did anon... it's okay most men deal with it the same way you do.
So if a baby has tight foreskin and gets cut, is that also "abuse?"
>>5441158
Russia and Ukraine has a high HIV rate and no circumcision.
>>5441168
>So if I went to Europe (or where ever you are from) all the guys there (and girls) would love to suck my cut cock?
possibly some girls might be weird-ed out if they never saw one but they know circumcision exists in eu the jews get cut and a few boys that have to for medical reasons.
>WHO is a UN organization. Are you saying the UN is wrong now?
i think they are wrong in this case because the evidence they cite is tainted, but they are very careful about the wording so they might feel it. also there is strong lobby for cutting of penises big bucks lots of biased "research".
>however you don't know what it's like to be circumcised, so you can't speak on it.
no i don't but i have seen a good number of pictures what happens when they botch it up. it's a horror show man. you were lucky. if that's enough for you then whatever.
>It's not a "men's issue" it's a health issue.
discriminating against males is totally not a health issue. basic human rights are being violated but it's okay cause they are boys.
>So if a baby has tight foreskin and gets cut, is that also "abuse?"
well that might be the only reason for circumcision. however babies foreskin is not separated from the glans yet so you can't know. phimosis that requires surgery to fix (not cutting it all off just surgery) is about 1% of the male population. and most people are okay with that IF it's performed properly under anesthesia like all surgeries.
>>5441173
yeah they are the exception i know.
lots of junkies there tho they are doing all kinds of fucked up home made drugs and shooting it with shared needle. might have something to do with it.
>>5441111
>there lots of gay men that like uncut penises in america, appealing to perceived popularity isn't an argument either
Quads for truth. FGM is the preferred beauty standard for women in some parts of the world and that is not a justification for doing it, why is it any different for males?
Killing majority of the nerve endings on the tip of the penis is okay just because it's not as bad as cutting entire clit out? Give me a fucking break, both are deplorable yet only one is legal AND prevalent in the west, guess which one we should focus our efforts on banning? The health benefits of circumcision can be achieved just as well after the male is of consenting age if they want to get circumcised, there's absolutely no justification on doing it on babies who are unable to consent.
>>5441212
many women go to plastic surgeons for roast-beef trimming. which is also genital mutilation but at leas voluntary. but african fgm is really over the top.
>>5441199
>possibly some girls might be weird-ed out if they never saw one but they know circumcision exists in eu the jews get cut and a few boys that have to for medical reasons.
Is there a percentage difference in Europe among circumcision rates? Like is circumcision higher or more common in some European countries than others? Only one I can think of is Albania that cuts their boys.
>i think they are wrong in this case because the evidence they cite is tainted, but they are very careful about the wording so they might feel it. also there is strong lobby for cutting of penises big bucks lots of biased "research".
Again this is the same talking point used by the right wing to say that climate change isn't real because of "biased research."
>no i don't but i have seen a good number of pictures what happens when they botch it up. it's a horror show man. you were lucky. if that's enough for you then whatever.
Botched circumcision isn't that common.
>discriminating against males is totally not a health issue. basic human rights are being violated but it's okay cause they are boys.
Again it's not discrimination. The foreskin is a hive for HIV and STDs and bacteria. I think all babies should be circumcised if it reduces deaths.
>well that might be the only reason for circumcision. however babies foreskin is not separated from the glans yet so you can't know. phimosis that requires surgery to fix (not cutting it all off just surgery) is about 1% of the male population. and most people are okay with that IF it's performed properly under anesthesia like all surgeries.
Well I was circumcised at birth so I can't say if I have phimosis or not. Don't have to worry about it.
>>5441233
Yeah the point is that roastbeef trimming is done for consenting adults. That's how all non-essential genital surgeries should be.
>>5441238
>Again this is the same talking point used by the right wing to say that climate change isn't real because of "biased research."
Sounds like you are using your biased research to muddy the waters just like climate change deniers or intelligent design supporters. Your argument is basically "there is no scientific consensus" where in fact there is. No health benefits that could not be achieved at a later date. The reasoning 'we should do the precautionary surgery to everyone that is shown to cause permanent damage just in case' is anything but sound. There's absolutely no need to circumcise infants.
>The foreskin is a hive for HIV and STDs and bacteria.
This is just a flat out lie. HIV and STD's are transmitted during sexual intercourse with or without foreskin. If you want to be protected from any and all STD's the only way is to use a condom.
>>5441238
>Botched circumcision isn't that common.
that is what they are telling you before the surgery.
http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html
>Circumcision in 315 boys aged from 3 weeks to 16 years (median five years) were evaluated. A total of 16 boys (5.1%) had significant complications
and those are the "medical" complications the doctors admit to, there are multitude of complications that count as "standard" result of circumcision.
please look at this page and tell me which ones you would put in your mouth?
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html
>>5441285
>Sounds like you are using your biased research to muddy the waters just like climate change deniers or intelligent design supporters.
Again I'm an ATHEIST. I don't believe in god. You cannot deny the medical benefits of circumcision when it comes to STD prevention. Saying otherwise makes you a the penis creationist.
>HIV and STD's are transmitted during sexual intercourse with or without foreskin
Circumcised men are less likely to get HIV if they are topping.
>please look at this page and tell me which ones you would put in your mouth?
I could post you a page filled with ugly looking foreskin as well.
https://megmeekermd.com/2011/10/circumcision-in-boys/
>As a pediatrician. I advocate circumcision for infant boys. Here’s why. Some studies show that circumcision reduces the risk of urinary tract infections, perhaps meningitis and it lowers the risk of penile cancer. There are other reasons that circumcision can help boys and this is more of a social issue. Most boys in the US are circumcised and as they move into junior high and high school, they shower together. Some boys feel strongly about wanting to fit in and therefore like being circumcised.
>I advocate circumcision but don’t push parents. I have personally seen a number of boys over my 25 years, who have had complications from not being circumcised and they have had to get circumcised later in childhood. This is tough for them to go through. Certainly, many boys who aren’t circumcised grow up completely fine. I often leave the decision about circumcision of sons to the father. Many fathers have strong opinions and I feel that it is important to honor those decisions.
>>5441312
>You cannot deny the medical benefits of circumcision when it comes to STD prevention.
There are none that cant be treated in other ways or at a later date, 'just chop em all off just in case before they can consent' is not a valid way of going about it. Use condoms for protection you circumcision creationist for fucks sake. No justification to mutilate babies that cant consent.
>Circumcised men are less likely to get HIV if they are topping.
It's not an effective way to prevent STD's. Use a condom. No justification to mutilate babies that cant consent.
>I could post you a page filled with ugly looking foreskin as well.
You know what's good about foreskin on adults? They can remove it if they want to with way less risk of complications. Why do it to babies without consent? No fucking reason, babies are not going to have sex and get the faith-based reduction of STD contraction. All they get is their nerve endings killed without consent.
>>5441319
>>5441312
>Circumcised men are less likely to get HIV if they are topping.
really not true that is not what the studies show actually.
right after circumcision you are a lot less likely to catch hiv because your penis is chopped to bits and hurts if it gets up you you are not sticking it in anything is what the studies proved.
nobody said restraining from sex is not effective against stds ever.
>>5441319
Fucked up the quote last time. Citing that page is an argument from authority, no sources cited and even the article says it's an opinion piece.
>>5441319
>the risk of urinary tract infections
hurr uti the nightmare!
>meningitis
now he just went full retard there
>and it lowers the risk of penile cancer
this is actually somewhat true cause fucking hpv but the effect is negligible when you look at how many men actually get penile cancer.
>Some boys feel strongly about wanting to fit in and therefore like being circumcised.
they wouldn't feel weird if none of them got cut i promise.
>>5441312
>You cannot deny the medical benefits of circumcision when it comes to STD prevention.
Not the person you're responding to but I kinda agree. You can't deny that they're there but you can point out of little there is. Being ~40% less likely to catch something from *unprotected* sex with a vagina is not really much. It doesn't stop the infected penis from spreading anything and it doesn't help prevent catch anything from oral or anal sex. Plus, a condom works so much better and prevents pregnancy. If I had a kid that was old enough that they might be having sex I'd always make sure they knew to use and had access to condoms. There's no need to resort to archaic medicine when we have modern technology that works better and has absolutely no risk
>>5440627
Shut up fag
>>5441319
>Some boys feel strongly about wanting to fit in and therefore like being circumcised.
>Hey! What's with your dick?
>Why are you staring at my dick? You gay or something?
>Everyone laughs at the first kid for being a homo
>>5440385
Except you won't, because women don't respect men like you and therefore do not find you attractive at all. Stop pandering to women, mommy isn't going to love you because you said nice things about her.
>>5441407
>Being ~40% less likely to catch something from *unprotected* sex with a vagina is not really much.
i would still like to question the validity of that claim.
you catch hiv if your penis gets damaged cut penises have more friction less mechanical buffer are obviously more susceptible to damage. it hiv gets into a tiny invisible cut on your skin you can get infected.
the only truth in that false claim is that the mucous membrane they are removing altho an important part of your immune system is less resistant against viruses than dead skin cells. however the urathea is also lined with mucous membrane so removing part of the problem is not gonna help much anyways.
>>5441369
>There are none that cant be treated in other ways or at a later date, 'just chop em all off just in case before they can consent' is not a valid way of going about it. Use condoms for protection you circumcision creationist for fucks sake. No justification to mutilate babies that cant consent.
Yes because every uses condoms right? Oh wait no they don't.
>You know what's good about foreskin on adults? They can remove it if they want to with way less risk of complications. Why do it to babies without consent? No fucking reason, babies are not going to have sex and get the faith-based reduction of STD contraction. All they get is their nerve endings killed without consent.
It's a stupid piece of skin that serves no evolutionary purpose. I'm glad I'm cut.
>>5441371
>right after circumcision you are a lot less likely to catch hiv because your penis is chopped to bits and hurts if it gets up you you are not sticking it in anything is what the studies proved.
That's why should get circumcised as a baby.
>>5441463
>I'm glad I'm cut.
good for you, some people are glad that they are amputees doesn't mean we should cut children's legs off.
if you are the gayfag then your entire existence serves no evolutionary purpose tho.
>>5441386
>they wouldn't feel weird if none of them got cut i promise.
It should be mandatory for all boys. Mothers shouldn't have to worry about stds and other medical concerns about their boys if they aren't snipped.
>>5440633
Shut the fuck up and take that shit to tumblr senpai
>>5441469
>good for you, some people are glad that they are amputees doesn't mean we should cut children's legs off.
It's not the same thing. Cutting foreskin is like cutting the umbilical cord
>if you are the gayfag then your entire existence serves no evolutionary purpose tho.
I'm bisexual anon.
>>5441478
>Mothers shouldn't have to worry about stds and other medical concerns about their boys if they aren't snipped.
kekked good trolling.
>It should be mandatory for all boys.
go ahead kike at least it will be easier to convert to your new islamic overlords.
>It's not the same thing. Cutting foreskin is like cutting the umbilical cord
no it's not the umbilical cord has to be removed it would dry off anyways whilst the vast majority of the worlds population is uncut and perfectly happy with it. truth is you are a minority with this barbaric practice.
>>5441494
>go ahead kike
Anti-circumcision extremists prove themselves again as being nothing but racists. I'm not Jewish, I'm 100% anglo-saxon American.
>convert to your new islamic overlords.
Your a fucking retarded idiot. I suggest you fuck off to the containment board.
>no it's not the umbilical cord has to be removed it would dry off anyways whilst the vast majority of the worlds population is uncut and perfectly happy with it.
Until they get STDs...
>truth is you are a minority with this barbaric practice.
I couldn't care less what the world thinks. I'm cut, so attacking me and calling me names isn't helping your cause at all retard.
>>5441468
yeah but the studies never focus on the prevalence of hiv between the broad cut and uncut population, cause that would show how fucking retarded they are. so they make up these little experiments to prove their point.
6 or 8 week study control group is fucking bitches all along cutfags are cut and try to recover it takes a couple of weeks before you can go at it i think 4 weeks at least. free condoms get pushed on the cutfags. no follow up if the percentage stayed the same. guhuhuhu. nice study would recommend!
>>5441463
>It's a stupid piece of skin that serves no evolutionary purpose. I'm glad I'm cut.
Kind of like the appendix. If I have a kid I'm going to have his appendix removes asap. I don't want to risk him having problems with it in the future and there's really no point in having it
>>5441509
>Anti-circumcision extremists
Yeah the extremists that try to protect babies from barbaric religious traditions. Oh the horror.
>Until they get STDs...
Circumcision does not protect from STD's so you lack an argument there.
>I couldn't care less what the world thinks. I'm cut, so attacking me and calling me names isn't helping your cause at all retard.
Never go full stockholm syndrome man. Just because you are fine with losing something you don't know what it's like to have doesn't mean others should be denied of it as well.
>>5441509
if you want to get /pol/ notice that were are lot of niggers there is also lot of aids
but truly male circumcision is rampant in africa and the us and aids is also, whitest in countries where circumcision is unheard of or it's banned the level of hiv prevalence is very low.
there is literally no way circumcision protects from any std.
>>5441532
>Yeah the extremists that try to protect babies from barbaric religious traditions. Oh the horror.
I've said this before and said this again I'm an ATHEIST. No belief in in imagery sky fairy the clouds.
>Circumcision does not protect from STD's so you lack an argument there.
Condoms does not (100%) protect from STD's so you lack an argument there.
>Never go full stockholm syndrome man. Just because you are fine with losing something you don't know what it's like to have doesn't mean others should be denied of it as well.
Your the one tell us circumcised men that we are inferior, subhuman. Sure no helping your cause.
>>5441529
>Kind of like the appendix. If I have a kid I'm going to have his appendix removes asap. I don't want to risk him having problems with it in the future and there's really no point in having it
Apples and oranges anon.
>>5441550
both fruit works for me
>>5441534
>but truly male circumcision is rampant in africa
Not in Southern Africa where circumcisions is low (HIV is huge in those countries and the US is funding male circumcision in Southern Africa), nor is HIV prevalent in Muslim countries, where circumcision is high. Try again asshole.
Where do lesbians / feminists stand on circumcision of male babies?
>>5441550
Apples and oranges is an excuse people use when they're shown how silly they are. Anytime someone makes a comparison that you don't like it's always valid to just say "apples and oranges". Nice one
>>5441557
>the countries that execute gays don't have HIV
Shocking
>>5441557
yeah and hiv is also very low in europen countries where they don't fucking cut children.
but i think there are 5 countries where circumcision is high and aids is high to every one where hiv is high and circumcision is low.
>>5441534
>there is literally no way circumcision protects from any std.
>denying science
Why do others still argue with this idiot? I stopped two hours ago.
You can spot him from the lack of capitalization.
why are women so mean? ;_;
>>5441586
science is all about fallibility, studies get debunked all the time
there are not a lot in this specific subject and they are shady as nine fucks.
i believe in science but also believe in taking everything with a grain of salt. scientists are imperfect and easily influenced by money.
not so long ago some retard figured it out that there is cholesterol in eggs so if you want to keep your blood cholesterol in check you should avoid eating egg yellows. an entire generation bought into it giving birth to the most retarded low fat fad that probably did lasting damage to an entire generation too and is yet to disappear despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
soo, yeah studies and theories... more extensive studying required for sure. unless we can just ban the fucking thing on human rights grounds.
>>5441586
Yeah just like feminists and creationists. When your faith based assertions about the benefits of circumcising unconsenting babies are questioned you throw your hands up in the air and say your personal experience trumps all facts.
>>5441624
What the fuck does this have to do with feminism?
Feminism is an important humanitarian movement. Comparing it to creationists is like comparing atheism to scientology.
>>5441626
>Feminism is an important humanitarian movement
only, we are not seeing any sign of this being true
>is like comparing atheism to scientology
well both are religions, so is feminist dogma
>>5441543
>I've said this before and said this again I'm an ATHEIST. No belief in in imagery sky fairy the clouds.
You know why circumcision is a thing right? Religion is the only valid excuse for it these days. Whether you are religious or not you are following religious tradition out of nothing but faith.
>Condoms does not (100%) protect from STD's so you lack an argument there.
Cute little strawman you made there. Did I say 100%? No I didn't. Nothing to refute here, I take that as a point conceded, if you want to know more check out:
http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness
/brief.html
http://www.cdc.gov/std/prevention/default.htm
(notice the lack of circumcision on the list, astonishing aint it?)
>Your the one tell us circumcised men that we are inferior, subhuman.
Did I strike a nerve or something? I never said you're subhuman, I feel sorry you got mutilated at birth but at the same time I despise you for wanting to have it done unto others without their consent.
>>5439751
>implying feminism will change anything when the world ends in about 27 years due to global warming a population growth.
You know we're gonna surpass the CO2 limit by 2020 right?
>>5441649
> I feel sorry you got mutilated at birth but at the same time I despise you for wanting to have it done unto others without their consent.
well put anon
>>5441626
Christianity is a humanitarian movement too. I should have clarified that I was referring to third wave intersectional feminists that buy into the patriarchy=satan, masculinity=sin, non-feminists=sinners sort of dogma. 2nd wave equality feminism helped us all out there's no denying that, too bad the radical fringe hijacked the movement after 2nd wave reached more or less all of their goals.
>>5441649
>You know why circumcision is a thing right? Religion is the only valid excuse for it these days. Whether you are religious or not you are following religious tradition out of nothing but faith.
My parents did not circumcise me or my brothers for religious reasons.
>(notice the lack of circumcision on the list, astonishing aint it?)
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20141202/cdc-endorses-circumcision-for-health-reasons
> I feel sorry you got mutilated at birth but at the same time I despise you for wanting to have it done unto others without their consent.
If it's what their parents want they should be allowed to do it. If I didn't get a say in my circumcision, I don't think others should as well.
NOR would banning circumcision actually "ban" it. Did banning alcohol and drugs make people stop using it? Oh wait....
>>5441663
second wave feminism was radical feminism and they haven't really reached a single goal of theirs all the ygot is a bunch of affirmative action that resulted in a lot of resentment towards women in carriers and academics and not taking them seriously. third wave is the usual shady wankers that crawly out from under every rock.
>>5441644
>we are not seeing any sign of this being true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_effects_on_society
>atheism is a religion
Fucking idiot, why am I even still responding to you.
>>5441663
>Christianity is a humanitarian movement
No, it's literally a religion. Sky fairy, holy book, all that.
>b-b-but patriarchy
Is anti-capitalism religion too? No. The only reason people bring up this idiotic rhetoric of "feminism is religion" is that some people have been so brainwashed that they do not even consider the possible accuracy of feminist culture analysis.
>>5441687
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_effects_on_society
short list of made up bullshit
yeah exactly what it thought
the only reason why men are violent is because they are circumcised
>>5441665
>My parents did not circumcise me or my brothers for religious reasons.
It's still a tradition originated from a religion with no quantifiable benefits over alternate better methods.
>http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20141202/cdc-endorses-circumcision-for-health-reasons
I looked into what they based the decision on and their study completely ignored the negatives of circumcision and overstates the benefit based on studies done in sub-saharan africa regards STDs. Here's a study from rest of the first world in reply to the guideline
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/796.full
To summarize the article
>The most important criteria for the justification of medical procedures are necessity, cost-effectiveness, subsidiarity, proportionality, and consent. [even more so for preventative procedures and even more so for children before consenting age]
Urinary tract infection
>Circumcision fails to meet the criteria to serve as a preventive measure for UTI
Penile cancer
>As a preventive measure for penile cancer, circumcision also fails to meet the criteria for preventive medicine
STD prevention
>The authors of the AAP report forget to stress that responsible use of condoms, regardless of circumcision status, will provide close to 100% reduction in risk for any STD. In addition, STDs occur only after sexual debut, which implies that the decision of whether to circumcise can be postponed to an age when boys are old enough to decide for themselves.
HIV prevention
>As with the other possible benefits, circumcision for HIV protection in Western countries fails to meet the criteria for preventive medicine
Had to cut a lot because of the 2000 character limit on 4chan but feel free to check it out yourself, they go much more in depth.
>>5441687
>No, it's literally a religion.
As if those are mutually exclusive. Christianity contributes a lot into global humanitarian aid whether you find their holy book awful or not.
>Is anti-capitalism religion too?
Capitalism is a real thing, patriarchy is not. Maybe there have been patriarchies in the history but modern day western democracies definitely aren't patriarchies. If anything they're gynocentric.
>some people have been so brainwashed that they do not even consider the possible accuracy of feminist culture analysis
I guess having liberal anti-bigotry values and holding feminist claims to the exact same standards as any other claims is being brainwashed now? I definitely am guilty of not following the "listen and believe" commandment, though I find it fascinating that they discredit women like myself who don't buy into their cult.
>>5441754
>http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/796.full
>Incidental deaths and (partial) amputations of the penis have also been reported
oh god how is even the slightest chance of amputating a penis or death is okay?
>>5441783
Because muh totally untreatable urinary tract infections and slowing down the spreading of HIV in sub-saharan africa
>>5440474
> tell potential victims to take precautions
> try to stop perpetrators
I thought we were doing both.
If I were a woman, I'd be taking a contraceptive and making sure the guy wore a condom. Guys don't have to worry about getting pregnant. It's like having a peanut allergy - it's your shit to deal with and while people are often willing to accommodate, you just have to accept it might require a little extra work to deal with on your part.
Going out in a bad part of town at night with provocative clothing (read: provocative means to provoke a response, as in, you want to turn heads) is akin to going out with a wad of dollar bills hanging out of your pants. You're in no way asking for trouble, but at the same time, refusing to acknowledge the increased risk is nothing short of lunacy. you shouldn't have to worry about getting raped, just like you shouldn't have to worry about getting mugged. The problem is that rapists and muggers have chosen to ignore the laws and societal ethics we've attempted to instill within them. That doesn't mean we stop trying, it just means that there's going to be a risk and you should be aware of it.
anyways thx guys this has been a great thread for my purposes.
i researched and read a lot recently about sjws and feminism and wanted to throw the ideas up that stuck somewhere. but there were almost no bites.
also this board is incredibly hard or maybe the hardest to troll which is respect worthy.
don't think i will stick around much this board is pretty depressing. i think i got some valuable insight about lbgt folks. apologies for the derails.
>>5441859
Have a good day anon. I ended up doing research about harms and benefits of circumcision. Pretty off topic but still educational.
Oh God his thread is gold.
This is r9k and pol mixed in one big gay babby. Just mention choosing women over men and they launch into
>muh feminism
>muh circumwhatever
Homo men and straight men are no different. Never chamge.
>>5440100
I agree with this 100%. I'm a man, but I think women are objectively superior in every way. Kinda want to transition, but it wouldn't really solve anything.
>>5441780
>Capitalism is a real thing, patriarchy is not.
Fucking idiot.
>>5441780
>modern day western democracies definitely aren't patriarchies
Anon, it's almost 2016 and you literally don't know what the word "patriarchy" refers to in feminist context?
The term has existed for at least some 40 years now, with that definition.
>>5442244
I don't expect people to know what farming is with regards to videogames, why should you?
>>5439751
I didn't finish Watamote. I'm really curious about what is happening in this picture. Who is that hugging her? Is it her older self or something?
>>5441443
gr8 b8 m8
>>5441564
I'm pretty much indifferent to it. I find circumcised slightly more aesthetically pleasant, though I'm not attracted to either. Given that there isn't much benefit to it apparently, it probably should be something put off until someone is old enough to decide whether or not they want it, but there are really much bigger issues affecting men that deserve more attention.
>>5441652
And you think that means human life on Earth is just going to disappear one day? Life will get a lot harder for us if we don't take steps to slow down global warming, but it won't be the end of the world. And same with population growth, it will lead to starvation and likely war as a result, but not likely the end of the world.
>>5441746
What makes you think that?
>>5442364
>Feminism was one of the biggest opponents of LGBT.
>Up until the late 80's
FTFY
>>5442364
Some feminists were backers of LGBT. Others ignored them in favor of focusing on womens' rights issues, which is entirely fair. Still others tried to undermine LGBT efforts, due to disagreement over their legitimacy, conflicting ideologies or attempts at seeming 'acceptable' by comparison.
Once women gained equal rights and protection, all feminists had left was to either petition for favoritism or attempt social change to bring about equality through behavior as well as law. The problem is that nobody likes affirmative action except the people who benefit, while everybody hates being told how to think.
>tfw autism
ftfy
>>5442490
>gr8 b8 m8
It's not bait. Men like that are so passive that they actually "hate" (read: fear) all other males. It's a sign of massive inadequacy, the kind of insecurity that women across the board do not find attractive. It's unattractive because they want their "dream girl" to be an empowered feminists who will make all the calls, "cuddle them" (be the big spoon every time) and save them from their loneliness. In a sense, they want their woman to be a man. But, even masculine women can't appreciate men like this.
I've met a lot of feminist women, and they fuck confident, attractive guys who range from paying minor lip service to feminism to outright laughing at it. That anon needs to get some self confidence as a male and stop expecting that being a "male ally" will get him anything other than the most pathetic of friendzones.
>>5442615
The b8 is the implication/assumption that every male feminist is lacking in confidence. It's nothing more than a less blatant version of the "mangina cuck" insult that radical MRAs use to silence men who disagree with them. It's literally, "You support feminism? Then you must be a failure as a man".
>>5442652
If you support radical feminism, yes, you are a cuck.
Nothing makes a girl drier than telling her "My masculinity makes me a bad person, so you should be in charge." Seriously, are you a male that actually dates women or are you pulling it out of your ass?
>>5442675
>If you support radical feminism, yes, you are a cuck.
Obviously, because a "cuck" is just someone who doesn't conform to your ideal of masculinity.
>Nothing makes a girl drier than telling her "My masculinity makes me a bad person, so you should be in charge." Seriously, are you a male that actually dates women or are you pulling it out of your ass?
And where are you getting the idea that this person actually thinks their masculinity makes me a bad person? Sounds like a strawman to me; really all they said is that they loath men in general, not that they themselves feel that they're a bad person for being male.
>>5442705
You have to consider where that loathing of men comes from, and the main factor for consideration here is that they themselves are male. That's inherent self-loathing.
Also consider that they're a male radical feminist, which means that their beliefs go a few steps further than most, and almost inevitably ends up in criticizing "the behavior of men", which goes back full circle to their self-loathing, unattractive ways.
>>5442725
The most straightforward interpretation of available information is that he loathes most men not BECAUSE they are men, but because of their behavior, presumably behavior that he himself does not have. Thus there's no inherent self-loathing there. Even radfems don't necessarily think that having a penis and/or XY chromosomes make one a bad person, it's more the behaviors and attitudes common in men that they have a problem with.
>>5442742
Exactly, he does not exhibit masculine characteristics, which puts him in the feminine camp. Being a feminine straight male is a tough thing to be, because women who are attractive to femininity can seek a better version of it in a feminine female.
You'll probably tell me that it's not my place to say that being a feminine straight male is a bad thing - but I will say that women are going to be a struggle for him.
>>5442756
Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with lacking confidence, and isn't really any different than the difficulties any out of the ordinary person faces in dating. And it's not really the case that anyone attracted to femininity would prefer dating an ordinary female, attraction is a bit more complex than that.
I'll just leave these here.
http://www.intactwiki.org/wiki/Brian_J._Morris
http://circwatch.org/circumcision-lies-and-fetishism-at-the-university-of-sydney/
>>5447163
>two links to blatantly anti-circumcision websites
Yeah, I'm sure those are TOTALLY unbiased...
>>5447224
Look at the citations and evidence. Their claims are not without basis.
>>5440937
>If you can get your head out of the typical /pol/ black and white thinking, let me say that I don't support routine infant circumcision. However, when it's done, it generally doesn't have any adverse effects comparable to FGM, and has even some benefits.
>If you want to go on a crusade against circumcision, don't expect to be taken nearly as seriously as the crusade against FGM, and don't ascribe to "sexism against males."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98f3IavuEgQ
Male genital cutting is not one thing. Female genital cutting is not one thing.
There are different degrees of both. The sex of the victim does not determine the severity of the "procedure".
In Indonesia, female "circumcision" often consists in pricking the clitoral hood with a sterilized needle in a clinical setting. This is in no way equivalent in terms of tissue loss to male circumcision as practiced in the US.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/03/25/asia-pacific/social-issues-asia-pacific/female-circumcision-not-mutilation-jakarta/
>>5447294
>In Indonesia, female "circumcision" often consists in pricking the clitoral hood with a sterilized needle in a clinical setting. This is in no way equivalent in terms of tissue loss to male circumcision as practiced in the US.
That's not what FGM generally refers to. You're making a classic strawman argument.
>The prepuce is an integral, normal part of the external genitalia that forms the anatomical covering of the glans penis and clitoris. The outer epithelium has the protective function of internalising the glans (clitoris and penis), urethral meatus (in the male) and the inner preputial epithelium, thus decreasing external irritation or contamination. The prepuce is a specialized, junctional mucocutaneous tissue which marks the boundary between mucosa and skin; it is similar to the eyelids, labia minora, anus and lips. The male prepuce also provides adequate mucosa and skin to cover the entire penis during erection. The unique innervation of the prepuce establishes its function as an erogenous tissue [8].
...
>The glans penis is primarily innervated by free nerve endings and has primarily protopathic sensitivity [43]. Protopathic sensitivity refers to cruder, poorly localized feelings (including pain, some temperature sensations and certain perceptions of mechanical contact) [44]. In the glans penis, encapsulated end-organs are sparse, and found mainly along the glans corona and the frenulum [43]. The only portion of the body with less fine-touch discrimination than the glans penis is the heel of the foot [45]. In contrast, the male prepuce ridged band (Fig. 7) at the mucocutaneous junction has a high concentration of encapsulated receptors [46]. The innervation difference between the protopathic sensitivity of the glans penis and the corpuscular receptor-rich ridged band of the prepuce is part of the normal complement of penile erogenous tissue.
...
>The prepuce is primary, erogenous tissue necessary for normal sexual function [8]. The complex interaction between the protopathic sensitivity of the corpuscular receptor-deficient glans penis [42] and the corpuscular receptor-rich ridged band of the male prepuce [45] is required for normal copulatory behaviour.
Cold, C.J. Taylor, J. R. The prepuce. British Journal of Urology. 1999 Jan. Vol. 83, Suppl. 1: pp 34-44
>>5447311
>That's not what FGM generally refers to.
FGM refers to any cutting of the female genitals for non-medical reasons. Even pricking the clitoral hood is considered FGM by the World Health Organization. They refer to it as Type IV FGM.
Pricking the clitoral hood of a girl for ritualistic, religious, or cultural reasons is a federal offense in the US. It is considered a form of FGM.
If that's not what people "generally" mean by FGM, that's because they are ignorant of the fact that it is a common form of FGM in Asia. Millions of women have been subjected to that form of FGM.
>You're making a classic strawman argument.
I am doing no such thing. I am simply explaining the reality of the situation. Some common forms of FGM are far less severe in terms of tissue loss than conventional male circumcision--yet they are still banned under Federal law in the US. This is a fact.
>>5447338
>Pricking the clitoral hood of a girl for ritualistic, religious, or cultural reasons is a federal offense in the US.
And so would male circumcision if not for the fact that it allegedly has a medical benefit. Is any medical benefit claimed for Type IV FGM?
>>5447311
By the way, many men in Africa die or are crippled for life every year from male genital mutilation performed in bush conditions. The recipient of the first successful penis transplant needed that transplant because he lost his entire penis to complications from male genital cutting.
Female genital cutting is often done in a clinical setting (as it frequently is in Indonesia). Male genital cutting is often done in a clinical setting (as it often is in the US).
Both are also often done in bush conditions.
>>5447369
>And so would male circumcision if not for the fact that it allegedly has a medical benefit.
How do you know that it would be banned if it weren't for the alleged medical benefits? That's not something you could prove; it's your conjecture.
>>5447401
Also, US law allows metzitzah b'peh, a practice common among Haredi Jews (and many other Orthodox Jews) wherein the mohel sucks the blood out of the baby's penis after the circumcision. This has no medical benefits. In fact, some boys have died from contracting herpes from the mohel's saliva.
Yet this is still allowed.
It is perfectly legal for a mohel to cut off an 8 day old baby's boy's ridged band and frenular delta and suck the blood out of his penis.
>>5447401
Because it's a medical procedure. You don't get to mess around with people's bodies unless you have a reason for doing so.
>>5447512
Brit milah (with or without metzitzah b'peh) is not a medical procedure. It's done for religious reasons. Many mohels are not physicians. It's done for the sake of fulfilling a mitzvah.
Clinical circumcision is also not a legitimate medical procedure except perhaps in rare cases. There are doctors who perform it who admit freely that it is primarily a "social surgery" done for cosmetic reasons and social conformity.
Male circumcision, as commonly practiced in the US, destroys primary erogenous tissues. The original reason it became popular in the US was to impede masturbation and reduce sexual pleasure.
There are physicians, including paediatricians, who protest against it because they are aware how harmful it is. It ablates the ridged band.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV8yOApeX8M
There is also no prohibition against simply performing a "ritual nick" or prick to the male prepuce, thereby removing no tissue. This could not possibly have any "medical benefits" (it would not substantially alter the form or function of the genitalia, though I suppose there would be a vanishingly small small risk of somehow damaging a nerve), yet there is no law against it.
Pricking a boy's prepuce with a needle for cultural or religious reasons would be legal. There is no law prohibiting it.
Pricking a girl's prepuce for cultural or religious reasons is a federal crime.
It is worth noting that in 2010 the American Academy of Pediatrics suggested it could be a good idea to legalize this form of female genital cutting to prevent parents from having more severe forms of female genital cutting performed overseas. They rescinded their policy statement due to public outcry.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/health/policy/07cuts.html?_r=0
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/722840
>see political lesbian
>mfw all the main page posts are about a rare Jewish male circumcision procedure
Hahaha, christ. I'm not at all political or feminist or whatever but damn, you guys make it hard to disagree with tumblrinas. This is just sad.
>>5441130
I'm a guy myself and I find pretty much everything you say there to be pretty spot on.
>>5447743
Oh, maybe she'll fuck you now that you've said that!
>>5447915
So you think all men who criticize their gender only do so to impress women? Lol. And now you're going to call me a cuck, right?
Political lesbianism is just the female version of MGTOW.
Prove me wrong.
As a lesbian I can't comprehend how can anyone hate men as a whole or manhood in general. Women are cute and sexy and soft but can't do shit, and have not done shit besides giving birth and raising children in the history of the human race. I know I sound /pol/r9k/ but fuck, it's so damn true. Trannies should be tortured and corrected for wanting to become literally useless human trash.
>>5448255
So why aren't you FTM?
>>5448267
Why would I become a penisless manlet freak? To be honest I don't even have dysphoria, I just hate women.
>>5448279
That's adorable.
>make thread about political lesbianism
>it descends into irrelevant argument about penises
Thanks guys
text me 3152385107
>>5448283
not really, it's just being practical.
>>5439751
I've never met a "political lesbian" who wasn't an actual idiot or didn't grow out of it eventually
it's a meme for people to appropriate sexual orientation because they have daddy issues and would rather yell about it incoherently and blow everything out of proportion than see a damn therapist
>>5448255
>Trannies should be tortured and corrected for wanting to become literally useless human trash.
Well, I mean, men and women are both kind of necessary, they both have their places in society, and trannies aren't really making themselves useless since they wouldn't have made good men in the first place.
>>5448351
Women are only needed for breeding purposes, and that's why trannies need to be corrected, so they can function as men since they would be 100% useless as "women", given they can't get pregnant.
>>5448357
Nah, a lot of people find women cuter then men even if they can't reproduce.
>>5448357
yeah nah nice b8
>>5448405
If you want you can count being sex-worthy as an use, but besides that and breeding/raising women are literally not needed as men can always perform better.
>>5448432
Sure, but depending on the task the margin of superiority isn't that large and it's not worth the effort required to turn women into men
>>5448414
Nah, not everything you don't like is bait. As I said, women are cute and fluffy but are a fucking disgrace to humanity. You can't claim to be equal or superior when you got bent over by men for several thousand years of your existence; surely if we were at least equal we would have found a way of claiming our rights as people sooner in at lease ONE relevant culture. Physical superiority is not enough to put people down, but it was for women? Bullshit, women are fucking useless and incompetent and didn't even have the brains to turn against men without their fucking help barely 70 years ago or so AND only in the West of the fucking world, holy shit.
>>5448446
Just kill off the trannies then, not like we need more mentally ill people.
>>5448475
By that logic there's numerous other people that we'd need to kill off as well.
>>5448506
Yes.
>>5447929
Well at least you had the insight to recognize it on your own, cuck.
>>5447934
Can you expand on that?
>>5448323
It really does boil down to one part penis envy and one part penis lust.
It makes a volatile concoction that always leads to crazy and...sadly enough never leads to good sex.
Man who's a litteral Chad/Jamal here.
Political lesbians are awful fucks but are way WAY into cock worship, rape play, and domination. Hate being made to feel bad about it or even admitting to themselves that they think about it though.
The whole "rape culture" thing is their collective rape fantasy and need to be taken, in every sense of the word, in a kind firm and socially acceptable way applied to an invisible boogeyman/fantasy male.
And if you even hint at anyone knowing that she likes to be daddy's good little girl or the whore nun who just can't say no to cock then she'll slit a nigga's throat in his sleep .
>>5448464
This is an example of why women, while being more employed and having more freedom money and social protections, are both poorer and unhappier then men.
Self hatred by people who wish they could play at the dominant role in society/be a guy destroying women's self esteem and even places to be themselves so they can feel like they're pathetic lives have some measure of meaning.
>>5448746
>Man who's a litteral Chad/Jamal here.
>>5448323
What do you expect? Dudes will try to stick their dick in anything. Especially where people tell them not to. But you can really tell if they don't have any real life success, good relationships, or substantial happiness if they are very intent on talking about how important they believe their prickle to be. Because that's all they think they have. That's all they think they can give to the world. And suffice to say it's sad there are so many of them. So many worthless human beings out there. Flick off one bit of skin and they just see themselves as having no purpose. It's depressing to think that so many men can be so hopelessly empty.
It's not every human being with a penis's fault that you're miserable.
Just saying.
>>5448895
I'm a guy who likes guys. I think everyone else's penis is extremely important. Mine's just kind of there; I could take it or leave it.
