I think the only reason people in western societies still transition after puberty is because they stem from conservative families.
But as the media spreads the word about transition I think in one or two decades there won't be much people who will transition after puberty.
This means when the late-transitioners will die-off in a few decades transpeople might just vanish because everybody will just pass and when everybody passes there is basically no reason to talk about 'trans issues'
discuss
I won't care because I'll be old as fuck and trans-issues will then be the least of my worries. I hope...
>>5410980
Well I don't think this will take 50 years. More like 20 or 30..
>>5410954
I agree, and it's why I think the whole political movement is way off base. Acceptance of myself looking like a man won't do me any good. Early transition would have. All the stuff about employment discrimination, or bathrooms, or whatever would be gone because nobody would even know.
Trans people will die off when we figure out what causes it and are able to prevent it from occurring. Everyone will be born cis and, at most, trans people will become a footnote.
I think this will occur before early transitioners are a big enough thing to matter. Medical technology advances fast enough I imagine this will occur around 2040-2050.
>>5410954
>I think the only reason people in western societies still transition after puberty is because they stem from conservative families.
I'm a gay man and I don't consider myself very conservative.
Im not convinced yet that there is enough evidence to prove that taking my child's opinion that he or she is trans as fact and allowing a child to make such an important and consequential decision as transitioning is the right thing to do.
If I ever had a kid who was trans I'm really not sure what I would do.
>>5411042
dunno about this. Its more likely that it can be diagnosed in the womb and trans embrios will be aborted because trans might get induced by really tiny hormone stuff maybe even linked to chemicals
>>5411049
>Im not convinced yet that there is enough evidence to prove that taking my child's opinion that he or she is trans as fact and allowing a child to make such an important and consequential decision as transitioning is the right thing to do.
yeah but I think that you as a parent might be pressured by lets say a teacher or a friend that you get your kid seen by a professional and that professional might induce blockers if you like it or not. And then your kid might be able to just get hormones secretly through the internet. I mean if I would be 14 today I would know how to get them...
>>5411053
But Anon... the singularity is coming.
>>5410954
>I think the only reason people in western societies still transition after puberty is because they stem from conservative families.
I transitioned late because I didn't know I could actually do something about it any earlier, let alone before or during puberty when peer pressure basically controlled the rate in which I breathe.
>>5411108
>I transitioned late because I didn't know I could actually do something about it any earlier
yeah and every 10-year old nowadays will find places like this and think about transition right away, will feel the pressure of his trans-peers transitioning...
>>5411071
>that professional might induce blockers if you like it or not.
Good one. The situation you're describing assumes a very absent parent.
To be clear i would want to do whatever was best for my kid. If they are prepubescent that means I make the best informed decision I can, not them.
IMO the science is still out on transitioning, especially so when we're talking about children. It's like the Wild West right now.
That isn't to say that I wouldn't come to the conclusion eventually that transitioning was the best course of action, and support them doing so fully. This would be after gathering and scrutinizing as much Info on the subject as possible. What I would NOT do is let my kids claims that he or she is trans and the notion that transitioning ASAP is the best course of action go unchallenged.
I think by the time I would potentially be in this situation, our understanding of trans kids will be a lot more sophisticated than it is now.
>>5411184
this is how hons are made.
>>5411148
Yeah I agree the other extreme is not any better, maybe even worse.
>tfw late transitioner
>tfw have to wait at least 35 years before dying
>>5411184
>What I would NOT do is let my kids claims that he or she is trans and the notion that transitioning ASAP is the best course of action go unchallenged.
It could very well be that in ten 10-20 you can't opt against treatment like you can't really opt against treatment of cancer of your child without geting prosecuted
>>5410954
I think so. It's really common for trannies to start having strong dysphoric feelings at the start of puberty, and then repress it for a while before transitioning in the 18-25 range. I think in a society with more trans acceptance and awareness, as well as more young trannies knowing that they CAN pass and not just look like men in dresses, we'll see the median age for transitioning go way, way down. The 18-25 age group are currently considered "young" transitioners. Soon enough we're going to be the new hons, constantly shitposted about by 14 year olds in 203X
>>5411354
yeah true. i started at 18 and got out fairly well but i think medical science will progress and the concept of a hon won't really apply to serious transitioners in a few decades.
>>5411354
Well most people pass at that age or atleast don't look like god aweful hons so it probably won't be as bad as it is right now with our current sentiment towards hons.
>>5410954
lol... as if transitioning will ever be accepted by society... the left is pushing the bullshit too hard, society will reject it
>>5411042
Well we'll find the "cure" for homosexualty and all sorts of other neurological attributes first with how much we'd have to be able to change brains.
>>5411049
Well it's not just the "child's opinion" and it's not like they say "yep you're trans" and you walk home with a puberty of hrt and a do-it-yourself-srs kit, it's an ongoing process that takes years and multiple psych evaluations and doctors.
If your kid were to go through all that and still show signs of dysphoria and need to transition then the statistics of regret and everything suggest that it would be much more "playing it safe" to allow them to have the recommended medical treatment instead of denying it on the distant hope that "maybe it's just a phase despite all the research and doctors and evidence". If you took that approach with something like cancer you'd kill your kid and probably be legally responsible but with trannies you'll just drive them to suicide and have to live with that.
>>5410954
if the LGBTQRSP et al. (sorry I don't care for the need of every variation wanting to be included) and other regressive-left types, or dismissive 'normies' that don't know shit but how they "feeeeel", if all of you continue to hammer at Western (european) culture aka the culture that allows you do be as queer and outspoken as you want, WHILST defending and being apologists for Muslims, and gagging over importing thousands upon thousands of them, they breed like motherfuckers, usually 4 kids in their 20s, some men take multiple wives (obviously not legally) and have more with them, people in the west on average have 1 or 2 children, near their late 20s or their 30s
Do you think young horny muslim men will look at a 'slut-walk' with naked women with "still not asking for it" on their bodies and think "well I guess she's not a kafur slut asking for it" when that's how a lot of them view regularly dressed western women?
Do you think they'll tolerate open gayness or open trans activity? In the countries they come from they have laws about killing gays, adulterers, they have honour killings when they think their duaghter has been a slut (aka she got raped)
I seriouslly want to know whether or not the LGBTQ-et al. want's to restrict how they behave around Muslims.
Cultural-relativism will ruin liberty in the West.
Intersectionality muddies your cognitive thoughts and will weaken multi-ethnic relations on top of having so many holes and contraditions
Look at once Leftist utopia Sweden. 100% of stranger-to-stranger rapes is by a muslim immigrant, and 9/10 of the victims are native Swedes
Is the LGBTQ community on 4chan as blind and idealistic as the feminists in academia?
You'll end up learning the hard way, I don't want to see slut-walkers raped or LGBTQ persons stabbed in the street
A question
Are Trans people ignoring the 20x higher suicide rate among people who go through with the operation? The only other demographic with suicide rates like that are the severely mentally unstable i.e schizophrenics and such
Or are ya'll blaming it on something like "it's because they're bullied or not accepted post operation, that's why they killed themselves"?
i'm fine with trans, I just don't like this narrative about it being natural or normal being pushed into society. Or that you were a guy for 30 years now you're a woman. That shit don't fly jack, nature doesn't have that kind of sense of humour
>>5410954
This will never happen. Pre puberty transition depends on parental support and the vast majority of parents even the non bible-thumping ones will prefer to prevent this rather than go along with it.
Gays in their 30s and 40s grew up in conservative and AIDS ridden society and managed to reach better status in society. Trannies are doing this in leftist, ultra liberal society and now it's going too far. You need better control because now literally anyone can associate their identity problems with it.
>>5412119
>leftist, ultra liberal society
>mfw
Also being trans is a much bigger deal than being gay. I fucking laugh when I see people make threads on this board about how they're depressed and hate themselves for being attracted to men
>>5412131
There hasn't been liberal revolution like this since the 60s.
Yes, but only because we'll all be hauled off to the camps soon. Eventually doctors will be able to stop trans in vitro and we'll be able to eliminate the illness before it can be passed on.
>mfw ill never live to become Wertvolle Transen and help shovel my fellow trannies into the furnaces for a handsome aryan cis man who treats me like the disgusting subhuman garbage I am.
>Saving me as his personal gay fucktoy only to destroy me in a final passionate act of barbarity for the betterment of the gene pool.
>>5411042
>brain surgery over half of the neocortext is viable and won't leave you a vegetable
>coming in just 20 years.
Boy have I got news for you
At least http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20005806
Is already viable through RNAi, focus on it, not science fiction.
>>5411053
Abort for being trans? May as well Abort black and manlet babies too.
This is just what you are wishing for.
The consequences on pushing people into early transitions might as well be horrible.
Anyway. Even if you start a 2, you are still trans. And if you need to hide, you are probably in denial and has ever bigger identity issues.
>>5411042
Yep, this. Either there'll be a gene therapy to fix it, a signaling-substance regulating pill, or a diagnosis in utero leading to abortion like with downies.
The idea that if there weren't any hons we could just blend in and cis people wouldn't feel tricked when they found out and trans violence would end is just the daydream of a desperate stealth tranny. That's never happening, you *are* lying if you don't disclose, and you probably need to mature a lot (although maybe not, for all I know you just didn't think this through. But you are on 4chan, so...).
>>5411899
>Are Trans people ignoring the 20x higher suicide rate among people who go through with the operation?
are you ignoring the studies that say otherwise?
[spoiler]yes[spoiler]
>>5413973
>"If you're against discrimination, you're for discrimination!"
>>5411904
>>5412977
>>5413292
dudettes its already happening. Ops pic is a sixteen yearold transgirl. I saw a documentary in my country where there is a special clinic who treats transgender children and basically all of them get blockers before puberty.
I'm talking about academic families who will push this. They are so focused on their children that they probably ask them if the want to be a girl or a boy. I was at a convention where there was a mother who was bringing up her child gender neutral...
>>5411899
>Are Trans people ignoring the 20x higher suicide rate among people who go through with the operation?
Yes, because that's completely fictional. I don't know where this rumor started but I'm tired of seeing it. Go ahead and try to get a reputable source if you want
>>5412936
If only...
>>5411899
>Are Trans people ignoring the 20x higher suicide rate among people who go through with the operation?
The treatment actually lowers suicide rates, though the greatest impact is how other people treat the transitioned person. Highest suicide rate is when your family disowns you and you dont get treatment, lowest is when you family is supportive and you get treatment. Gee who would have guessed?
On the contrary. Society will get more obsessive about spotting them and it will get harder and harder to pass
>>5412936
Count me in!
>>5411053
lol you realize the most likely reason for transsexuality is socialization shit right?
>retard trannies believe brain sex
>mfw it will be completely discredited in a generation
>>5411470
>most adult men transitioners (18-25) pass as females
Hon r u for real?
>>5414016
Honestly though those kids who transition that young won't really appreciate it. I am not THAT super jealous, yes I am but its like they will just think of themselves as defective women/men where as I at least feel good that I turned my male self into a female self and can see the beauty of my transformation. Plus they will never know what its like to be on both sides and its a cool experience in reality. I think there is a sweet spot for transitioning and it is before high school (12-14)
>>5414669
We'll just have to see about that, won't we?
(protip: you're gonna be disappointed)
>>5414682
>or atleast don't look like god aweful hons
learn to read
>>5414016
Sure, but I don't see how this makes the notion that
>late-transitioners will die-off
And again, they are still trans. No matter if they started at 6.
>>5411049
Children from stricter families who had less options and choices of how to effect their surroundings score significantly lower than those that do.
Hormone treatment is completely reversable and non invasive.
You shouldn't need a reason to seek a prescription to hormones, your body makes or has the capacity to make it, why regulate it?
>>5424473
>Hormone treatment is completely reversable and non invasive.
Not true. Completely false for ftms, mtfs still have permanent sterility and breast tissue
I think transitioning will always be a thing for the means of overcoming dysphoria.
But the situation with trans people would probably look vastly different in a culture that isn't so obsessed with the gender binary.
Radfems know best. Pic related.
honestly invisibility is almost the ideal. I've never cared much for the bathroom debate since I've always been stealth in public. Just because I haven't experienced it, I don't dwell on "trans rights" which most often in pop-culture means (but not only) "the rights of visible/ non-passing trans people." Not that I resent them, but I do resent the delusion that makes hon-types think they're entitled to X or Y while willfully disconnecting from the reality around them.
I think this kind of attitude will become the norm as the average age for transition gets lower. Most trans people just want to be a normal man/ woman, not a third gender that stands out.
The problem that will remain is stuff like high school locker rooms when there are girls with tiny penises changing with normal girls, or guys who are harassed for having vaginas. Though they get to transition better, trans people under legal age in the US are still going to get caught up in the political shitstorm.
>>5428610
I agree with what you've said, but it's important to note the difference between gender issues and sex issues. I never really conformed to my assigned gender, and I was happy with that. I didn't want to change sex just so I'd be "allowed" to act different, that's not why I transitioned. Dysphoria for me meant that I still wanted to be me on the inside and socially, but otherwise-inexplicably I wanted to be the opposite sex. In other words, my social and professional circle was already past the non-conforming thing, but I still had dysphoria anyway. I agree that if society at large could get past the idea of two gender roles and conformity, it would help a lot of transgender (agender, snowflakes, etc) people, even the now-rare/ oldschool people who felt pressured into transsexuality in order to conform.
pic not related.
>>5428610
An androgynous society would still have trans people, but they would be even more conflicted: rather than seeing women and men and realising there's a difference, they would see people, and their own physical dysphoria would have no point of reference. They would dress how they want, act how they want, and still hate their body. It'd be a disaster for the generation of trans people growing up in a society like that.
Transitioning is not about gender roles, despite what radfems think; it is about curing physical dysphoria. It would be very difficult to put that dysphoria into words in an androgynous society.
>>5429100
>The problem that will remain is stuff like high school locker rooms when there are girls with tiny penises changing with normal girls, or guys who are harassed for having vaginas. Though they get to transition better, trans people under legal age in the US are still going to get caught up in the political shitstorm.
Trans people should have the right to private changing rooms. In high school we had ONE student with a wheelchair and they had to put an elevator in the building for him to use more or less exclusively.
>>5424480
It's completely reversible with blockers only, which is all people take until 16-18.
>>5411184
The best decision you can make is listen to the expert, dipshit.
>>5429116
>and their own physical dysphoria would have no point of reference
Are you implying people wouldn't have penises and vaginas if we dropped gender stereotypes?
OK, not. You're probably just assuming the truth of some deeply rooted gender binary, and thinking that in an androgynous society trans people wouldn't have any side to pick, or something like that. That includes a false premise, of course. The point of androgynous community is not to force actually truly binary people into seeming non-binary; it's acknowledging that people are really truly non-binary, then putting that into practice.
>>5429116
>>5429196
BTW I'll also note the irony of how deeply rooted the assumption of a gender binary is in your mind here. And possibly, the aggressive pushing of the trans narrative doesn't help there. Maybe you too are one of the people who could have been happy as a gender non-conforming person, but instead decided they are trans because the gender binary was so deeply ingrained in your thinking. Just a possibility, not that I really know you or anything.
>>5429196
And you're assuming that the gender binary going away would cause trans people to disappear. It wouldn't. Physical dysphoria is a major reason for transitioning, and the more invisible that issue becomes the harder it is to contextualise it.
For me, personally, rather than hating my penis and male features and being able to contextualise it by realising I wanted to be a woman, an androgynous society would have left me even more confused as there wouldn't have been a clear difference until it was pointed out to me that genitals are different. Perhaps if this were done and people in this androgynous society were informed of trans issues, it would be OK, but if gender and sex lines were blurred altogether it would have been confusing to me.
>>5429200
Your possibility is wrong. I transitioned for physical reasons alone.
>>5429221
>And you're assuming that the gender binary going away would cause trans people to disappear.
No, I'm not assuming that. It should be either in this thread above somewhere or in another thread (posting in 10 ATM and getting distracted by other things at the same time) that I've explicitly mentioned that I think SRS and such for the sake of overcoming dysphoria will probably persist.
>until it was pointed out to me that genitals are different
Come on, genitals aren't that hard to spot. It's not like people would be blind to anatomical maleness and femaleness in an androgynous community.
>>5429364
Genitals are hard to spot. People don't walk around with them hanging out. I had very little understanding of the difference between men and women outside of gender roles until I turned around 12 and saw pictures on the internet.
My mother dressed and acted very androgynously; her clothes and shoes were male, and her profession and hobbies are what are considered typically masculine. As a child, I asked her what the difference between boys and girls was, and she would just tell me that I would know when I was older. It was extraordinarily confusing to me, and left me wondering why I was a boy and not a girl. I had genital dysphoria from 9 years old, but it never really had an explanation until I stumbled upon pictures accidentally.
I hated growing up in a household with my parent acting so androgynously.
>>5429523
>I had very little understanding of the difference between men and women outside of gender roles until I turned around 12 and saw pictures on the internet.
Well shit. Blame your culture.
In Germany, it's acceptable for kids as old as 10 to be nude in public. And at least until 5 or so it's very frequent. They'll play nude in blow-up pools and shit. Common stuff.
There's also a thing such as sex education, which might as well start in kindergarden if you asked me.
Really, your household/culture was just fucked up in different ways. It was most certainly NOT an ideal androgynous and legitimately (not porn-style) sexually liberated community, from what you're telling.
>>5412936
Eugenics is the future anon.
>>5414001
"war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength"
>>5411042
Don't forget those dirty homosexuals too.
>>5411904
I'm sure it will happen in my lifetime. Maybe late into it, but it certainly will.
>>5410954
This is the point, isn't it? Trans issues will only exist as coming out, and acceptance. The point of transitioning and passing is that in the eyes of society one should be seen as if one was the member of the other sex from birth.
