It seems the current state of the 'LGBT community' is absolutely retarded. Yes, a few of you are probably kicking off that somebody dare say such a thing, so loyal to a cause simply because you felt included. But you aren't thinking it through.
Let's look at trans-genders. Gender and sex really are the same thing. There's been a politically correct attempt to divorce the two, but it's still there. If you've got a penis, you aren't suddenly a woman because you enjoy knitting. Or a passion for football won't make your vagina suddenly a male organ. What you enjoy does not make you a male or a female. Neither will long hair make you a woman, or a buzz cut make you a man. It's a pointless task to try to identify as something you aren't.
It has been shown that trans-genders are mentally ill. Their brain patterns do not match up with normal people. So they feel a sense of body dysmorphia. They believe that pretending to be something they aren't will fix that. But we also know that those who try to live as the way they believe they need to will still be afflicted by the disorder. They are never truly happy, because it isn't a case of being in the wrong body, it's a case of the brain not working as it should.
Instead of promoting this hostile and toxic division between reality and people's delusions, I propose we begin to try to fix the problem. Show people that gender isn't based on hobbies or preferences, but your physical self, and that shouldn't impact you. Show people that it isn't a wise decision to mutilate yourself in the pursuit of some far off happiness that will never come while you ignore your mental disorder. You were born with a fault, but it's not a physical one, it's a mental one. And when you finally come to terms with that, you will find it much, much easier to cope with who you are.
sage report hide ignore
>>5353472
>SAFE SPACE SAFE SPACE SAFE SPACE
sage report hide ignore
>>5353473
>SHIT POST SHIT POST SHIT POST
>"You guys are wrong, see let me explain to you why..."
>posts the general opinion of /lgbt/
You're a little slow aren't you?
>>5353474
Does it really upset you so much to know others don't hold the same view as you?
>>5353479
>"we're such a diverse collection of snowflakes that nobody can dare point out the flaws!"
Sure thing, babading.
>>5353464
>preaching to the choir
>>5353492
And yet there a threads all over this place where people are saying how worried they are about telling their parents they're something they aren't, or fretting over the lack of HRT in their life at the point. The only response they're getting in those threads are 'yeah keep trying'. They're being actively encouraged to buy into the lie.
>>5353480
Of all things you could be salty about it had to be trannies
>>5353484
>things that haven't been said
Come back when you actually have new ideas.
>>5353498
Not sure you know what the meme 'salty' even implies.
>>5353504
So you can have an echo chamber for your delusion? Not a chance.
>>5353505
You sound pretty salty to me. Let me guess, a mtf turned you down for sex?
>>5353508
But you already have an echo chamber for yours.
Which you should go back to, since apparently science triggers you and we wouldn't want that, my little /pol/ escapee.
>>5353497
I'll admit that this board is flooded by a large amount of trannies, many that are too stupid to check for general threads and just vomit their own insecurities everywhere on the board for all to see but ask the other 3 letters and they'll all unanimously agree that trannies are insane.
You'll even find trannies who consider themselves mentally ill.
>>5353514
I visit /sci/ and /x/.
>>5353484
No faggot, he's saying /lgbt/ agrees with you. Shitposters come here from other boards thinking theyre going to take down muh SJWs, not knowing we hate them just as much.
>>5353514
All science explains is why trans are mentally fucked up...
>>5353517
Well then there's hope after all.
>>5353508
>So you can have an echo chamber for your delusion?
If you actually took time to read (I know it's too much to ask from /pol/) you'd have discovered that your "trannies are mentally ill" is the general consensus of this board.
>>5353520
And I'm saying just because they happen to believe something, it doesn't mean everyone here does. I posted specifically because of the number of threads where this belief isn't being promoted right now. If the majority agree, then where are they?
>>5353464
But that's literally not what being trans is, you are totally misinformed so your post is pure bullshit. I'm not going to tear you down on a personal level here but if you don't like something you should get informed instead of following your own personal rhetoric believing its the truth.
>>5353543
>But that's literally not what being trans is, you are totally misinformed so your post is pure bullshit.
Go ahead and try to explain what you think it is, then.
>I'm not going to tear you down on a personal level here
Please, do try. It would really be quite the sight to see it attempted from the position you hold.
>>5353464
Congratulations, Anon!
I'm from the committee that awards Nobel Prizes in Medicine, and we've decided that you will be the winner of the 2016 prize for your groundbreaking work in Gender Identity.
We're writing to all of the psychologists and doctors in the field to inform them of your theories.
>>5353543
here comes the bird brained tranny to refute a troll bait post. why are you so stupid?
>>5353539
Fags from /pol/ come with stale, weak ass bait and shit up an already slow board with troll threads.
>>5353518
>I visit /sci/
You could also have said you visited /his/ and my level of respect would have been about the same. Poltards do indeed visit sci and get btfo constantly.
>>5353571
I always assumed /pol/ actively despised LGBTs? I know they tend to visit /sci/ just to post Theist vs Atheist shit, so I'd assume they'd lean more to the right.
>>5353560
>bird brained tranny
insults... nice, real nice
>>5353553
>from the position you hold
why do you think I am below you as a person?
>Go ahead and try to explain what you think it is, then.
all I can say is it feels painful to live life as a male and it feels comfortable and "normal" for me to present as and be referred to as female. Don't overthink it kiddo.
>>5353534
We're in gaygen and lesgen, or complaining about how many tranny threads there are.
>>5353577
>I always assumed /pol/ actively despised LGBTs?
Yes. That's usually why they shitpost here, to try and upset us/redpill us.
Now lately there's been a more reasonable voice, since both /lgbt/ and /pol/ dislike islam.
>>5353579
t-t-time to use my smug a-anime images and play it out cool...
Tranies can't be this retarded. This is why people shit post so hard on this board, because of idiots like him who take the bait.
>5353579
Poltards have this TRP hyper-patriarchal view of the world that makes femininity inferior to masculinity. What they don't understand is that they are stuck in basically an 8 bit representation of the world, and it suits and pleases the femme-leaning of the world to let them hold their illusions. Makes them easier to manipulate.
>>5353579
>why do you think I am below you as a person?
A combination of how you present yourself and basic sample sizes, really.
>all I can say is it feels painful to live life as a male and it feels comfortable and "normal" for me to present as and be referred to as female.
So, when you are what you are, you feel 'pained'. Like distracted, irritable, emotional unstable, etc? But when you are acting like something you aren't, the demons that torment you aren't so overwhelming? An obvious conclusion presents itself...
>Don't overthink it kiddo.
I suggest you try.
>>5353589
>since both /lgbt/ and /pol/ dislike islam.
I'm not even sure Islam likes Islam anymore. But it's as good a fire to gather around as any, I suppose.
>>5353593
Why do you hold to this weird truncated concept of biological determinism, where you think that just because someone has testicles they are "intended by nature" to pursue a hyper-masculine behavior and identity? Don't you think there are other influences on behavior which can be considered to be a part of "nature"? This is why I say you're stuck in the equivalent of an 8-bit matrix, instead of living in reality. Everything is the way it is BECAUSE that's the way nature works. All you're doing is complaining and threatening people. Makes you seem really unhappy, insecure, and threatened. Could it be that your feebly enforced illusion of patriarchy is crumbling? I quote Nietzsche "What is falling must also be pushed." I am proud to be a male-born assistant to the coming femme-archy. Get on your knees, masc-bitch.
>>5353600
>Why do you hold to this weird truncated concept of biological determinism, where you think that just because someone has testicles they are "intended by nature" to pursue a hyper-masculine behavior and identity?
If you read the OP, you'll find I do not hold such a view. I believe that you are not suddenly another gender just because you do not like traditionally masculine behaviours.
I didn't bother reading the rest, because I can only assume it's more of the same.
>>5353591
>oh my god the audacity to use an anime image on an anime image board
>mfw
>>5353593
>A combination of how you present yourself and basic sample sizes, really.
How I present myself is none of your business though, same as how you present yourself is none of mine. Like did you ever hear about personal freedom? You don't like trans people for whatever reason so you are trying to justify your particular brand of hate and pass it off as truth.
>An obvious conclusion presents itself...
yeah I am insane. My insanity is too hard wired to be cured, trust me I tried to overcome my trans feels every day of my fucking life.
>>5353593
Why do you trolls always carry yourselves in the most condescending way? It's always the same talk. The thinly veiled insults, the babble about 'mutilations' and 'delusions'. This thread mirrors dozens upon dozens with the same topic.
It's really easy to get the impression that you're more concerned with putting people down, rather than having a legitimate discussion.
>>5353609
>trolls
>more concerned with putting people down, rather than having a legitimate discussion
>>5353606
My gender identity is not reducible to "a preference for behaviors stereotypically held to be feminine", so go fuck yourself. This is what happens when people assume they know something about experience they've never had. Fuck off and hope you don't cross my path irl, because I love ruining the days of people like you.
>>5353608
>How I present myself is none of your business though, same as how you present yourself is none of mine.
Nope, but it will result in instant impressions of a person.
>Like did you ever hear about personal freedom?
There's personal freedom and then there's asking others to pander to a delusion.
>You don't like trans people for whatever reason so you are trying to justify your particular brand of hate and pass it off as truth.
I don't dislike trans people at all. Is that just an attempt at deflection?
>yeah I am insane.
Quite the leap, really. Insanity and mental disorder are not one in the same.
>My insanity is too hard wired to be cured, trust me I tried to overcome my trans feels every day of my fucking life.
Drugs can help with that. My housemate has crippling OCD and has to take pills to combat it. She's fine when she's taken them.
>>5353609
this is their intent though. they don't come and talk like this because they want a rational discussion.
>>5353619
>My gender identity is not reducible to "a preference for behaviors stereotypically held to be feminine", so go fuck yourself.
No need to get so angry. If you want to refuse to explain yourself, then you will have to accept people making assumptions.
>This is what happens when people assume they know something about experience they've never had.
Then use your words to explain it, then. Don't overreact.
>Fuck off and hope you don't cross my path irl, because I love ruining the days of people like you.
Yeah, that isn't going to happen.
>>5353622
Estrogen is the only drug that helps with my dysphoria. How is it any of your fucking business? Keep your personal "taxonomy" to yourself. You can think of me as "estrogenized male-gened, male born" or whatever you want, but I will continue to insist to be treated as and referred to as a woman, to use the women's restroom, to insist on access to the treatment for my dysphoria, and dress how I want. And if you want to make an issue out of it, I will show you the folly in thinking that femininity means weakness.
>>5353627
You don't get to demand to have the identities of others "explained" to you just because you decide to take an interest. You seem to be full of explanations (and threats, and insults) already, so why don't you go take them and explore the feminine side of your asshole with them. Again, be fucking careful. Keep these conversations on the internet where they don't fucking matter, because when I overhear the kind of shit you say casually on these boards, there is instantly a problem.
>>5353622
>Nope, but it will result in instant impressions of a person.
LOL you think I give a fuck what the general public thinks of me?
>>5353622
>There's personal freedom and then there's asking others to pander to a delusion.
I didn't ask anyone to pander to me though. What do you think trans people do all day, act like an idiot prancing around in public starting shit? I live like a normal person and I am pretty quite all the time in public.
>I don't dislike trans people at all
>spends the whole thread telling trans people why their lives are invalid
cringe
>Drugs can help with that
yeah I take medication for my illness, its called estrogen and it works great
>>5353627
You don't seem to realize that my right to transition has been hard won in the face of the oppression of assholes like you with shitty beliefs like yours. And I intend to defend it. Think whatever you want, but this is not a trivial conversation where you get to take whatever side you want and play devil's advocate. It's more like discussing my right not to be indiscriminately raped. If you insist on discussing it with me present, don't expect me not to "overreact", because I will fucking ruin your day.
>>5353628
>Estrogen is the only drug that helps with my dysphoria.
And yet it isn't helping it, it's exacerbating it. You don't give drugs to a person with schizophrenia to cause even more voices.
>How is it any of your fucking business?
You've really imposed that upon me. I don't recall asking you about anything.
>Keep your personal "taxonomy" to yourself.
No.
>You can think of me as "estrogenized male-gened, male born" or whatever you want, but I will continue to insist to be treated as and referred to as a woman, to use the women's restroom, to insist on access to the treatment for my dysphoria, and dress how I want.
I'd think of you has a male with body dysmorphia. I would not treat you as a woman, regardless if you insist on it because you aren't one. Using women's restrooms is just unnecessary. You're free to insist on any treatment you like, but if it causes concern (such as increased hostility), then it's a problem. You can certainly dress how you want.
>And if you want to make an issue out of it, I will show you the folly in thinking that femininity means weakness.
To be honest, you're the one doing that.
>>5353628
but you're DEGENERATE you MAN. just MAN UP!! you're born with a penis so you should just naturally act like a MAN xD
>>5353622
>Drugs can help with that
What drug? Medications for OCD do not work on someone with gender dysphoria.
>inb4 pimozide
Already tried it, asshole. Didn't work and just screwed up my muscle control and gave me slurred speech.
>>5353640
Go fuck yourself. You are not a nice person, you are not a decent person, you are not "ok". You are a terrible person, and you should feel terrible. Go away.
>>5353480
Most likely it upsets people that we have this same thread every single day and there's no point in complaining about it on 4chan
>>5353637
>LOL you think I give a fuck what the general public thinks of me?
Well clearly you did, or you wouldn't have asked why I had a certain impression of you to begin with.
>I didn't ask anyone to pander to me though.
You may not. Check out the guy having the breakdown for an example of people that do.
>What do you think trans people do all day, act like an idiot prancing around in public starting shit?
Some of them. Probably for other disorders they also suffer from, though.
>I live like a normal person and I am pretty quite all the time in public.
Fair enough.
>cringe
It's true. I'm not saying they're invalid. I'm saying it's unhealthy to promote submitting to the disorder.
>yeah I take medication for my illness, its called estrogen and it works great
Great enough that you never have moments where the old voices come back? When you're alone or you catch sight of yourself in a mirror, you never have that niggling in the back of your mind? You'll know the true answer to that.
>>5353651
You've just spammed quite an impressive number of angry, tantrum-filled posts, and then think I'm the terrible person? Calm yourself down.
We need sticky for this soon, newfags just don't get it.
>>5353658
I'm actually not angry. I just don't want you to get an ambiguous message. You are a very bad person, and you should feel very, very, bad. I'm not kidding. There should be a law against being you. This is not up for debate. If it is, then "should you have a colon" is up for debate.
>>5353663
Get yourself some tissues, some ice-cream and then put on a film. Then, when you've calmed down, get back to me with your views.
>>5353655
you people act like you know what you're talking about. if alternative treatment options for gender dysphoria that worked existed you might have something valid to say other than believing it doesn't exist. a lot of people feel this way and hrt helps them. in reality you dislike them probably because you dislike the loud sjw trannies. how else do you end gender dysphoria? it's not something that you can normally live your life with.
>it doesn't exist you're crazy just like schizos
>>5353464
>>5353668
No, you will never get me to "discuss" my "views" with you as if you have a view which is reasonable or worth discussing. You are nothing but a hate-mongering, oppressive cunt. You do not have anything interesting to say, and you should not say any of it. I would be overjoyed if you would kill yourself.
>>5353655
>Well clearly you did, or you wouldn't have asked why I had a certain impression of you to begin with.
I never asked that. You said being trans made me worth less as a normal person.
>You may not. Check out the guy having the breakdown for an example of people that do.
Just because one person or a few people in a group act a certain way it does not mean that everyone in that group acts the same way. I feel like you should already know this.
>I'm saying it's unhealthy to promote submitting to the disorder.
How is it submitting? Submitting is living as a guy till people commit suicide. At least transition gives people the chance to live how they want.
>Great enough that you never have moments where the old voices come back?
I never heard fucking voices. Do you even know what being trans is?
>>5353675
We warned them but the trannies still took the bait. Not surprised honestly, they lack rational thinking.
>>5353670
>... other than believing it doesn't exist
What are you talking about? I've outright said people suffer with it.
>in reality you dislike them
This is a really weak attempt at self-victimisation. Not everyone that disagrees with HRT and surgery suddenly hates people with body dysmorphia.
>how else do you end gender dysphoria?
Therapy and medication. If you believe the options out there to cope with the mental disorder aren't good enough, then let's push for research to help it.
>>5353668
Your whole belief structure and all of your views constitute a temper tantrum. My responses are pretty mild in comparison. You should thank me for being so kind and patient with you. Then you should leave, because you are not wanted.
>>5353473
Hey, I see you've learned a new word from a cartoon but if you really want to use it against someone you probably should pick something else than a board on 4chan.
>>5353685
therapy never works to treat gender dysphoria though. it never has. talking about it doesn't make it better and there aren't any strategies end dysphoria. how are you so confident that it works? why do you know better than people who are legitimately helped by something?
>bait is clearly ID'd as bait
>trannies take the bait anyway
/lgb/ when?
>>5353679
>I never asked that. You said being trans made me worth less as a normal person.
No, I didn't. I said it would be funny for you to try to tear me down from your position as someone that came in with no alternatives, only contrarianism.
>Just because one person or a few people in a group act a certain way it does not mean that everyone in that group acts the same way. I feel like you should already know this.
Agreed. But it's also not the case for the reverse, either.
>How is it submitting? Submitting is living as a guy till people commit suicide. At least transition gives people the chance to live how they want.
True, people have the option. But, considering the high rate of suicide in post-ops, the likelihood is that the solution still isn't right yet.
>never heard fucking voices. Do you even know what being trans is?
I meant voices in the abstract sense. Basically another word for subconscious thoughts and feelings.
>>5353701
hiro will save us
>>5353677
You really are a funny one, guy.
>>5353698
>how are you so confident that it works?
I found myself living in a house with people of varying mental disorders. Out of the 6 people living here, only 2 of us are normal (mentally, at least, I don't have a left foot). All 4 of them attend therapy sessions or groups and take medication. One has body dysmorphia in that she hates any hair on her body. It's helped her a lot.
>>5353702
I'm done arguing with you for the day, this is getting nowhere. Good luck with your opinions.
>>5353712
if I wasn't trans I'd be very much like you. I'd think that people just need more therapy to deal with this situation and that trannies are yet again exaggerating or misconstruing their problems. unfortunately gender dysphoria isn't like other things like that where it can be talked about and rationalized. there are no drugs that are known to work other than hrt and long term therapy rather than hrt would have made me kill myself within two years for sure.
you can keep baiting if that's your intention or you can keep believing that therapy and acceptance of being your assigned gender is the key. maybe in combination with drugs that seem to work for other problems. unfortunately it doesn't work this way for actual trans people but there's nothing stopping you from acting superior and saying you know what's right for other people.
>>5353721
And good luck with yours! Could you do me a favour and take the crazy one with you? I'm cautious that he may end up shitting himself out of sheer anger if he stays too long.
>>5353723
You're the fucking crazy one. Reevaluate your whole life.
>>5353722
>if I wasn't trans I'd be very much like you.
And if I had wheels, I'd be a car. With nice shiny rims. Maybe a built in sat nav, just because.
>I'd think that people just need more therapy to deal with this situation and that trannies are yet again exaggerating or misconstruing their problems.
I don't think they're exaggerating. I think that their feeling of being in the wrong body would feel much the same as a person with a fault in their brain. I just think the solution isn't so much to change the meatsuit but to fix the problem at its source. If the mere suggestion of an alternative results in the sort of responses we've had here, then there's not going to be much improvement.
>unfortunately gender dysphoria isn't like other things like that where it can be talked about and rationalized.
How would you know? It seems to me that sufferers try to put it in a special camp, like it can't be dealt with at all. Which sounds more like an attempt to actually avoid trying.
>there are no drugs that are known to work other than hrt and long term therapy rather than hrt would have made me kill myself within two years for sure.
SSRIs and/or antipsychotics could work. It depends on how severe the person's symptoms are, really.
>you can keep baiting if that's your intention or you can keep believing that therapy and acceptance of being your assigned gender is the key.
Or I can keep trying to argue my views against a persistent stream of misrepresentations.
>maybe in combination with drugs that seem to work for other problems.
It's all about experimentation. People react differently to different chemicals.
>unfortunately it doesn't work this way for actual trans people but there's nothing stopping you from acting superior and saying you know what's right for other people.
Or saying I suggest an alternate approach to dealing with a mental disorder that is currently still struggling to be addressed.
>>5353750
sorry but you're wrong. people like you seriously ruined my life telling me exactly what you're saying so excuse me for being salty. you think you're right but really everything you said hurts people. you will never embrace something that really helps people and can turn someone from being extreme depressed and suicidal to being happy and much less uncomfortable. believe what you want and I'll do the same but keep saying the same boring old shit that fucks people over for life every day.
>>5353702
>Please, do try. It would really be quite the sight to see it attempted from the position you hold.
>why do you think I am below you as a person?
>A combination of how you present yourself and basic sample sizes, really.
Not that guy, but you should have made your position clear before you took the opportunity to insult them. Clever backpedaling, though. 8/10
>>5353765
No backpedalling at all. People simply jump to conclusions. Like saying 'you people' to a black person.
>>5353750
>SSRIs and/or antipsychotics could work. It depends on how severe the person's symptoms are, really.
At the moment you have no data corroborating this suggestion. Just because one thing works for one disorder doesn't mean it'll work for another.
>It's all about experimentation. People react differently to different chemicals.
Well that doesn't sound sketchy at all. I'm surprised you're suggesting we abandon the only known treatment we have in favor of experimenting with mind altering drugs when you talk about hormone therapy and SRS having a spotty profile.
Transsexualism was seen and treated as a mental illness for decades and doctors never found conclusive data supporting an alternative treatment. Also trans people haven't had any real political power until very recently so there is no excuse for the lack of data supporting your suggestion.
>http://www.avitale.com/treatmentoptions.htm
>Dr. Benjamin, concentrating on male-to-female transsexuals, was among the first to note that psychotherapy with the aim of curing transsexualism was ineffectual as a treatment. I repeat his remarks here to show how far back knowledge of the ineffectiveness of trying to change an individual's gender identity through psychotherapy goes. I must also note that to this day there are no documented case studies showing sustained gender identification reversal due to psychotherapy.
>Dr. Benjamin states:
>The mind of the transsexual cannot be changed in its false gender orientation. All attempts to do this have failed. Dr. Robert Laidlow, Chief Psychiatrist at Roosevelt Hospital, New York, has studied a number of transsexuals and has come to the conclusion that "psychotherapy has nothing to offer them as far as any cure is concerned." Dr. John Alden, a prominent psychiatrist in San Francisco, fully concurs with this opinion and has repeatedly stated so. Numerous other psychiatrists agree to my own personal knowledge.
>Since it is evident that the mind of the transsexual cannot be adjusted to the body, it is logical and justifiable to attempt the opposite, to adjust the body to the mind. If such a thought is rejected, we would be faced with a therapeutic nihilism to which I could never subscribe in view of the experiences with patients who have undoubtedly been salvaged or at least distinctly helped by their conversion.
>>5353464
People who think a neurological disorder equals mental illness or mental illness in a negative subhuman sense are mentally retarded actually no your IQ is probably lower than that.
>>5353464
>Their brain patterns do not match up with normal people. So they feel a sense of body dysmorphia.
That's quite a vague and unscientific assertion to make, don't you think? The data on the neurology of transsexualism is still inconclusive, but there are studies supporting the suggestion that they were born with brain structures similar to ones found in the opposite sex. So the 'i got the wrong body' narrative still holds some ground.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3C4ZJ7HyuE
>>5353881
>male with a hint of female leaning =/= female trapped in male body
>>5353854
We have
/gg/
/mtfg/
/ftmg/
/lg/
/bg/
/fg/
/hetg/
/wgc/
/tlg/
/thg/
/aceg/
every fucking day so stop acknowledging the fact that we have this thread every day as if that's reason enough to stop making these threads.
Mental illness and neurological disorders are terms used interchangeably with slight variation of use. Stop being such a dumb ass. Why are trannies so stupid these days.
>>5353902
It still gives the idea some ground and contradicts the notion that they're delusional or suffering from some weird type of body dysmorphia. The whole idea is founded on the suggestion that their brain is more similar to a genetic female's rather than the typical ones of their bio sex.
>>5353464
>Gender and sex really are the same thing.
If gender and sex are the same thing, then computer science and programming are the same thing.
PROTIP: just because you don't understand the nuance between two related concepts does not make them the same.
>>5353917
This thread should not be a general because it's just a bait thread posted by a retard who lacks the knowledge to figure out how medical conditions work.
The fact that you think a neurological disorder is a mental illness shows how stupid you are. The fact that people who post these threads think the brain is not a physical organ shows how low of an IQ they have.
>>5353923
Not really. A delusion is thinking something is true when it isn't. It may be a disorder that causes their delusion, but it doesn't then make the delusion valid. These people aren't the sex they think they are.
Their brains aren't more similar to the opposite sex than their own, either. It's like if 1 represents being their sex and 10 being the opposite sex, these people are a 3.
>>5354007
>The fact that people who post these threads think the brain is not a physical organ shows how low of an IQ they have.
More deflections from those afraid of having their mental disorder discussed openly.
>>5354007
I dunno. I'd be down with a /hategen/. Frankly, these people need a containment thread badly, since most of their threads aren't even at the bump limit before sinking into obscurity due to the appearance of two new likely non-general hate threads.
Since these trolls lack artistry, insight, or originality, it's in their best interest to sustain one-another instead of relying on handouts.
>>5354096
You sir are the one deflecting.
>>5354116
Well I agree that some trannies need to read the catalog before posting, but that just means they are 4chan nubs looking for a board to post on. Transgenderism has been on the rise these past few years so there are a lot of younger folk coming on looking for advice about how to cope yet the majority of people on here are assholes.
>>5354121
Look up what deflecting means.
>>5354149
All I did was post the differences and you do not recognize it because you are to stupid to know. I can't make a horse drink water.
>>5353464
>>5353464
>It has been shown that trans-genders are mentally ill.
>So they feel a sense of body dysmorphia
>it's a case of the brain not working as it should
>cosplay
>otherkin
>>5354201
> it's a case of the brain not working as it should
And who is the authority on how the brain 'should' work? The department of congruity? Or perhaps the department of normalcy. I guess the department of secrecy knows for sure, but they're not telling.
>>5354088
Trans people aren't delusional though. If they truly felt they were female, they wouldn't feel the need to transition. They are able to have insight about their condition and they know there is a mismatch between the sex they are and the one they feel they should be. There can't be any dysphoria if the patient doesn't notice a mismatch. People just want to call them delusional because it makes a convenient insult and it invalidates their identity, which is why you see it spouted so much in the bait threads that riddle this place.
>Their brains aren't more similar to the opposite sex than their own, either.
You got a source that proves that? The parts that were reliably shown to be sexually dimorphic were found to be more similar to the opposite sex's. That's the whole point. If their brains are even partially feminized, they still have some validity to that claim.
>>5354250
>muh relativism
>Schizophrenia is my blessing
OK thanks I understand
>>5354191
You posted no differences. Just saying something doesn't make it true.
>>5354007
oh boy, IQ means so much! Stop getting your gaffs in a bunch.
>>5354312
>Trans people aren't delusional though.
Yeah, they are.
>If they truly felt they were female, they wouldn't feel the need to transition.
And if they didn't truly feel it, they wouldn't need to transition in the first place. They're just trying to fit their body more to the delusion, like a man that think he's a cat getting whiskers implanted.
>They are able to have insight about their condition and they know there is a mismatch between the sex they are and the one they feel they should be.
Only they end up going the wrong way. They don't think 'my brain is broken'. They think 'my brain is perfectly fine, it's everything else that's the problem'. They're caught by their own body dysmorphia.
>There can't be any dysphoria if the patient doesn't notice a mismatch.
In this case, they think the mismatch is the wrong way round. They're adamant they're the other gender, but they say their plumbing is off.
>People just want to call them delusional because it makes a convenient insult and it invalidates their identity, which is why you see it spouted so much in the bait threads that riddle this place.
And this is what it always boils down to: people find facts insulting and invalidating. Unfortunately, reality will not bend to their whims and grant their claims validity. They're suffering from a delusion.
>You got a source that proves that?
digest.bps.org.uk/2011/11/male-to-female-transsexuals-have-male.html
>The parts that were reliably shown to be sexually dimorphic were found to be more similar to the opposite sex's.
Not according to the studies. It only showed that yes, there was a deviation from the norm, but it did not show that it was closer to the opposite.
>That's the whole point. If their brains are even partially feminized, they still have some validity to that claim.
Nope. The claim is they are the wrong gender. Having errors in the brain does not show they are the wrong gender, only that this is the source of their mental disorder.
>>5354405
You don't understand what a delusion is. A delusion is an inability to for the conscious mind to properly interpret exterior reality. Someone who has gender dysphoria is not confused as to what their physical phenotype is. They have the same perception as you as to what the exterior appearance of their body is. What differs is the internal response to that situation.
Someone with the neurological disorder that prevents them from feeling pain is not delusional about the state of their body when injured. The simply have a different response to that state of their body.
> They're just trying to fit their body more to the delusion
They're trying to fit their body to their internal *identity*. People have a residual self-image, and it is controlled entirely by the brain.
> Only they end up going the wrong way.
Who is to say what the right way is? You? God?
> They don't think 'my brain is broken'.
This varies on a case-by-case basis.
> They're adamant they're the other gender, but they say their plumbing is off.
Because they have decided that their internal self is more valuable than their current physicality. And on top of that, they've decided to actually do something about it. Who are you to tell them they cannot do otherwise?
> And this is what it always boils down to: people find facts insulting and invalidating. [...] They're suffering from a delusion.
Again, you don't know what a delusion is. If they were delusional, they would already think that their body matches their identity and would do nothing to change it.
> Unfortunately, reality will not bend to their whims and grant their claims validity.
Literally all of human history is us imposing our wills upon the physical world. We 'bend reality to our whims' every day. It is who we are as a species. To say that they cannot change their reality using technological tools is straight up, honest-to-god naturalist fallacy.
>>5354349
Theres a difference between neurological and mental illness and you said that they are interchangeable when they are not just stfu I can't believe you are this dumb.
>>5354405
>Only they end up going the wrong way. They don't think 'my brain is broken'. They think 'my brain is perfectly fine, it's everything else that's the problem'. They're caught by their own body dysmorphia.
There are very many transsexuals here that concede that they got the wrong brain for the right body. Deciding which is wrong is just a game of semantics, if one is fixed their quality of life improves and they aren't so delusional anymore. There is no way to fix the brain so doctors go for the body instead since it seems to help. And while I understand the symptoms of body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria are vaguely similar that doesn't mean they are the same. If you think gender dysphoria is just some weird manifestation of body dysmorphia, I don't think I can help you.
>Stefan Arver have scanned the brains of 24 heterosexual, pre-operative male-to-female transsexuals and compared their structure to the brains of 24 heterosexual male and 24 heterosexual female controls. Homosexual transsexuals were omitted to help avoid the complicating influence of sexuality on the results. None of the transsexual participants had taken any hormone treatments, which is another factor that could have skewed the findings.
>More research is needed, with larger samples and including studies of homosexual transsexuals and female-to-male transsexuals. "Any interpretation must, therefore, proceed cautiously and can at this point only be highly speculative," the researchers said.
Well this isn't sketchy at all. The exclusion of homosexual transsexuals is a pretty big red flag since very many heterosexual ones are late transitioners that only begun experiencing dysphoria very recently in their lives. Transsexualism attracts a lot of weird types that are suffering from another disorder, which makes it difficult to diagnose. Besides, this is only one study and even the researchers say it isn't conclusive.
>>5354444
>We 'bend reality to our whims' every day.
>>5354593
You're literally using a non-naturally occurring device to post here. The people who designed and created it bent reality to create it. As for the image, I see nothing wrong with transracial behavior. I find it perfectly acceptable.
>>5354606
>The people who designed and created it bent reality to create it.
soon
>>5354444
>You don't understand what a delusion is. A delusion is an inability to for the conscious mind to properly interpret exterior reality.
Nope it's: an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
They think they're something they aren't. It's a delusion.
>Someone who has gender dysphoria is not confused as to what their physical phenotype is. They have the same perception as you as to what the exterior appearance of their body is. What differs is the internal response to that situation.
And the internal response is 'I am in the wrong body'. It's a delusion.
>They're trying to fit their body to their internal *identity*. People have a residual self-image, and it is controlled entirely by the brain.
And when you plug into the Matrix, you get to wear all shiny leather and latex.
>Who is to say what the right way is? You? God?
Reality. The body is all working fine. The brain is off. It's completely illogical to then think the entire body needs to be altered to fit the broken brain.
>This varies on a case-by-case basis.
True. Some aren't so caught up by the idea that trying to become something they aren't will fix things.
>Because they have decided that their internal self is more valuable than their current physicality. And on top of that, they've decided to actually do something about it. Who are you to tell them they cannot do otherwise?
They can do what they like. But it won't make their claims true. A man with a mutilated body and a broken brain isn't then a woman simply because they demand to be referred to as one.
>Again, you don't know what a delusion is. If they were delusional, they would already think that their body matches their identity and would do nothing to change it.
We've already covered your definition is off. The delusion is that their brain matches another kind of body, which it doesn't.
>>5354444
>Literally all of human history is us imposing our wills upon the physical world.
And yet a rock is still a rock even after you've carved it into the shape of a man. It isn't now a man.
>We 'bend reality to our whims' every day.
Not really. Nobody is defying gravity with a whim. Nobody is opening portals with a whim. Reality remains as it is, we just operate within it.
>It is who we are as a species. To say that they cannot change their reality using technological tools is straight up, honest-to-god naturalist fallacy.
Not even close. Reality is as reality is. We do not change it. We only work within it. And they aren't changing reality when they take hormones and have surgical procedures.
>>5354548
>If you think gender dysphoria is just some weird manifestation of body dysmorphia, I don't think I can help you.
Gender dysphoria is just a label for one aspect of body dysmorphia, where it focuses on gender specifically. That should have been obvious for you.
>Transsexualism attracts a lot of weird types that are suffering from another disorder, which makes it difficult to diagnose.
This is a brilliant point but you glossed right over it. It isn't that mentally ill people are attracted to body dysmorphia. It's that it's inherent in body dysmorphia to present multiple mental disorders. Like the study that showed there are more homosexuals among paedophiles than in the remaining population, these mental disorders don't usually manifest themselves on their own.
>>5354629
> They think they're something they aren't. It's a delusion.
For the purposes of this discussion, I will use your definition of delusion. But you should know that's not what everyone else uses.
That being said, you're making a great deal of assumptions. Wanting to change doesn't mean I think I'm something I'm not, it just means I have a goal state and I'd like to achieve it. As long as I don't think I'm <x> until I become <x>, then I'm not delusional by your definition.
> Reality. The body is all working fine
Reality doesn't have opinions or values. You're projecting your personal values onto reality. If reality cared about sexual transition, it would have prevented scientists from developing HRT and SRS.
> It's completely illogical to then think the entire body needs to be altered to fit the broken brain.
If that's true, show your logic. From where I'm standing, changing the body is orders of magnitudes easier than changing the brain.
> A man with a mutilated body and a broken brain isn't then a woman simply because they demand to be referred to as one.
It seems as though you don't understand value judgements. This isn't surprising, since you project your own onto reality as the basis for your 'logic'. Mutilation is a value judgement, and someone isn't mutilated until they think they are. "Man" also has no biological definition, since cultures all across the globe have 'rites of manhood' that prevent boys from becoming men at all.
>>5354641
> Not really. Nobody is defying gravity with a whim. Nobody is opening portals with a whim. Reality remains as it is, we just operate within it.
You are confusing reality with reality's constraints.
> Not even close. Reality is as reality is. We do not change it.
The reality was that before you posted, your message didn't exist. By posting, you changed reality. Reality is not immutable, and it changes every Planck time. If the universe were static, nothing would happen.
>>5354681
quoted wrong person, first quote should be >>5354633
>>5354681
>Wanting to change doesn't mean I think I'm something I'm not
>Transexual
pick one
>>5354681
>For the purposes of this discussion, I will use your definition of delusion. But you should know that's not what everyone else uses.
Odd, considering it's THE definition given when you look it up.
>That being said, you're making a great deal of assumptions.
That tends to happen in text-based exchanges. Hard to get all of the points across in a prompt manner.
>Wanting to change doesn't mean I think I'm something I'm not, it just means I have a goal state and I'd like to achieve it.
No, but wanting to change your outward appearance to match something you think you are inwardly is a delusion. A man who self-identifies as a cat is not a cat, regardless of his surgical and chemical modifications.
>As long as I don't think I'm <x> until I become <x>, then I'm not delusional by your definition.
But they never become <x>. So their delusion is always that.
>Reality doesn't have opinions or values.
Nope, it has facts. Facts that cannot be argued against.
>You're projecting your personal values onto reality.
Nope. I'm showing that my personal values happen to align with reality (in this instance, at least).
>If reality cared about sexual transition, it would have prevented scientists from developing HRT and SRS.
Reality doesn't need to care. All we need to know is that people suffering from the disorder will never be correct in their belief.
>If that's true, show your logic.
Working body. Broken brain. Much more logical to fix the brain than to fuck up the body. It's not about ease.
>Mutilation is a value judgement, and someone isn't mutilated until they think they are.
Cop out, really. An insane person can mutilate themselves and say they don't think they are. It doesn't change the reality of the situation.
>"Man" also has no biological definition, since cultures all across the globe have 'rites of manhood' that prevent boys from becoming men at all.
Man as in male. Semantics won't work here.
>>5354661
>Gender dysphoria is just a label for one aspect of body dysmorphia, where it focuses on gender specifically. That should have been obvious for you.
The DSM has always considered gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia to be two separate conditions. Just because body dysmorphia is a co morbid condition found in some people suffering from gender dysphoria, that doesn't mean the latter is a variant of the former. While transsexualism does attract a high amount of psychopathology, proper treatment of those actually suffering from dysphoria can sustain a very positive outcome.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title%20Word&term=Smith[author]%20AND%20Adolescents%20with%20gender%20identity%20disorder%20who%20were%20accepted%20or%20rejected%20for%20sex%20reassignment%20surgery%3A%20a%20prospective%20follow-up%20study.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title%20Word&term=Smith[author]%20AND%20Sex%20reassignment%3A%20outcomes%20and%20predictors%20of%20treatment%20for%20adolescent%20and%20adult%20transsexuals.
>>5354861
not the anon but why do you care so much? you wanna take away the only thing good that happened in my life because you don't like it personally. why do you want to meddle with other people who don't want to interact with you in the first place? you claim to have answers but really it's all conjecture and you don't really understand trans people.
there's so many threads like this on this board. I wish people would just let others be who aren't affecting them.
>but I'm not going to engage in a DELUSION!
you probably don't engage with very many people in real life.
>>5354872
Gender dysphoria includes both body dysphoria, and social dysphoria, you can't have gender dysphoria if you lack either one of those.
>>5354861
as fucking stupid as your cat comparison is, let's take it seriously
a man identifies as a cat and suffers from living as a human, therapy and traditional medications fail to resolve this
somehow medical technology advances enough to actually give this man a body identical or near identical in appearance and functionality to a cat's.
for the sake of the argument let's say he also can't reproduce or anything, he's also unable to talk or do things a cat would not be capable of doing
how would you see him?
how should he be treated?
assuming medical science advanced even further, allowing his mind to be transferred into a fully functional cat's body, making him, aside from his past, indistinguishable from a cat, how would you see him then?
>>5353522
It also explains that transition is more effective in treating gender dysphoria than shitposting is.
>>5353592
The idea that femininity is inferior to masculinity is a pretty common view, depending on what you mean by inferior. It's not just a TRP thing, femininity is generally seen as shameful which is why people can understand why a woman would want to be a man more than the opposite. The problem with /pol/ is that they're autistic and apply this idea to everything, rather than being reasonable and realizing that the world isn't about absolutes like that. Tumblr applies the same reasoning, but in reverse, they overthink gender roles to the point that they think any male in a dominant role is misogynistic.
>>5353622
>There's personal freedom and then there's asking others to pander to a delusion.
Insisting that trans people do not transition simply because you feel uncomfortable with the idea, despite it being the most effective treatment for gender dysphoria, is a far better example of "pandering" and "taking away personal freedom" than expecting people to gender you correctly and not kill you for being trans. The whole pronoun thing isn't even a law or anything, it's just a social norm of politeness, but yes that does have consequences (calling your boss a faggot may be protected under freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean it will end well for you).
>>5353640
>And yet it isn't helping it, it's exacerbating it. You don't give drugs to a person with schizophrenia to cause even more voices.
Gender dysphoria isn't schizophrenia. You don't believe you're literally a girl, it's not a delusion, its that your brain is telling you you'd be more comfortable in a more female body, not as imaginary "voices", but just this general feeling of discomfort. Estrogen doesn't support any delusion, it just helps people be more comfortable in their body and take on a social role that they're more comfortable with.
>I'd think of you has a male with body dysmorphia. I would not treat you as a woman, regardless if you insist on it because you aren't one. Using women's restrooms is just unnecessary. You're free to insist on any treatment you like, but if it causes concern (such as increased hostility), then it's a problem. You can certainly dress how you want.
The bathroom issue is mainly because a lot of mtfs get physically harassed or harmed for going into the men's room. If they're passable it makes a lot more sense to go in the women's room, provided it has seperate stalls. That means no one will really see your anatomy, but people will think it's weird if they see an obvious "woman" (even if it's one who happens to have male genitals) going into the men's room.
This is what happens when people take South Park's godawful preachy messages seriously. It's good as a surreal comedy, but Matt and Trey are a couple of idiot stoners who should not be taken seriously on any topic. Their ignorance on even the most basic historic and scientific facts is fucking mind boggling.
I especially hate teenagers/young adults like OP who watch the show and are like
>OH MAN THIS IS SO RIGHT I'M SO SMART FOR WATCHING THIS AND UNDERSTANDING IT, I'M GONNA ACCEPT EVERYTHING THIS SHOW SAYS UNCONDITIONALLY AND SPOUT ITS MESSAGES EVERYWHERE
And yet the same people will shit on Al Gore for being a demagogue.
>>5353684
>>5353701
These threads are pretty much the whole reason I come to this board desu.
>>5353702
>True, people have the option. But, considering the high rate of suicide in post-ops, the likelihood is that the solution still isn't right yet.
The suicide rate is substantially reduced in the modern post-op population. It may not be a perfect solution, but it's far better than anything else and certainly good enough until we find a better alternative.
>I meant voices in the abstract sense. Basically another word for subconscious thoughts and feelings.
Wouldn't almost everyone be "hearing voices" by that definition?
>>5353750
>I just think the solution isn't so much to change the meatsuit but to fix the problem at its source
That's a good idea in theory, however we're far away from being able to implement it. The brain defect that causes transgenderism is one that is highly unresponsive to drugs and therapy, unless we can somehow develop a drug that can reshape otherwise permanent areas of the brain, the only solution is brain surgery. And we're nowhere near able to do that without harming the patient.
>If the mere suggestion of an alternative results in the sort of responses we've had here, then there's not going to be much improvement.
That's mainly because the vast majority of people who suggest alternatives are obvious trolls, and/or openly hostile to the trans community. I agree that we sometimes overreact, however eventually we just get tired of taking bait threads seriously. If someone was clearly informed and respectful while proposing alternatives, we'd be far more likely to listen to them.
>SSRIs and/or antipsychotics could work. It depends on how severe the person's symptoms are, really.
Sounds good in theory, and may work for other conditions that mimic gender dysphoria (basically any other psychological condition that causes one to experience perceived gender issues), but doesn't seem effective for actual neurological gender dysphoria.
>>5355000
>you don't really understand trans people
>trans
>understandable
understand your denial?
>>5353854
>people who think retarded people are retarded are retarded.
>>5354861
> Odd, considering it's THE definition given when you look it up.
Words have multiple definitions. There is no canotical definition for anything. You know this, don't be obtuse.
> But they never become <x>. So their delusion is always that.
How can you say that with absolute certainty? There are so many confounding cases. What if someone says they want to be a sex hybrid with female secondary sex traits and male primary sex traits? That's easy to do. Such a body transformation would not be impossible, and with modern medical tech, would be quite easy.
Even for the 'harder' body transformations, for you to say that they can never become <x> is to assert that there is a magical quality of <x> that isn't encoded in our physical universe.
> Nope, it has facts. Facts that cannot be argued against.
But you are passing off your personal opinions as reality. You say the body is fine and the brain is 'broken'. But there is no single definition of a 'working' body or a 'broken' mind, especially not according to reality.
If this is your logic, them I'm afraid your logic is flawed. Reality has no concept of 'working' or 'broken'. It can't have such concepts, it isn't conscious.This is what I mean by saying that you are projecting personal values onto reality.
Unless of course, you can show me exactly how reality decides what is 'broken' and what isn't.
> A man who self-identifies as a cat is not a cat, regardless of his surgical and chemical modifications.
What if the man identifies as a cat-like man internally and only says "I feel like a cat" so that casual conversations don't take unreasonable periods of time?
> Man as in male. Semantics won't work here.
It isn't just semantic, it's very important. The fact that societies have the concept of 'a real man' or 'you're not a man until you do <x>' shows us that there is a very important distinction between gender roles and biological sex.
>>5354405
>Only they end up going the wrong way. They don't think 'my brain is broken'. They think 'my brain is perfectly fine, it's everything else that's the problem'. They're caught by their own body dysmorphia.
Plenty of them are aware that the problem exists in their brain, however that's not really meaningful when it comes to treatment because there's currently no way to fix that area of the brain. And strictly speaking, there's nothing actually WRONG with that area of the brain, it's just mismatched for their body. So any attempts to fix it, without really knowing what we were doing, we'd likely cause all sorts of horrible side effects. Now, if we could safely transplant the gender area of the brain between mtfs and ftms, that would be a great solution.
>>5354641
>Not really. Nobody is defying gravity with a whim. Nobody is opening portals with a whim. Reality remains as it is, we just operate within it.
That's why they said bend reality rather than break it.
>>5355000
>not the anon but why do you care so much?
If it didn't impact me, I wouldn't care at all. But it does now, with all this 'pronouns' nonsense and people using their hurt feelings to silence logic and reason.
>you wanna take away the only thing good that happened in my life because you don't like it personally.
Where did I say I wanted to take away anything?
>why do you want to meddle with other people who don't want to interact with you in the first place?
Suggesting an alternative that doesn't involve pandering to a delusion isn't meddling in anything.
>you claim to have answers but really it's all conjecture and you don't really understand trans people.
Let me guess, you're also using your own conjecture to even state that in the first place but you don't see the hypocrisy?
>there's so many threads like this on this board. I wish people would just let others be who aren't affecting them.
I wish the same would happen. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
>you probably don't engage with very many people in real life.
Of course I do. I don't have a mental disorder that makes normal interaction with normal humans such a challenge that I feel the need to amputate my genitals. Socialising is easy for me.
>>5355507
>IT AFFECTS MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
No it doesn't. Just don't be rude, god, how hard can it be when even autists, who are literally not geared for that social shit, can handle it.
>>5355185
>as fucking stupid as your cat comparison is, let's take it seriously
Funny. When it's people thinking they're a gender they aren't, it's all fine and dandy. But if they think they're a species they aren't, you think it's stupid. How hypocritical.
>a man identifies as a cat and suffers from living as a human, therapy and traditional medications fail to resolve this
Yup.
>somehow medical technology advances enough to actually give this man a body identical or near identical in appearance and functionality to a cat's.
Cool.
>for the sake of the argument let's say he also can't reproduce or anything, he's also unable to talk or do things a cat would not be capable of doing
The image is really freaky.
>how would you see him?
As a person so mutilated that they're almost unrecognisable, and yet their mind and DNA remain human.
>how should he be treated?
As someone with a very serious mental illness.
>assuming medical science advanced even further, allowing his mind to be transferred into a fully functional cat's body, making him, aside from his past, indistinguishable from a cat, how would you see him then?
So he's a man's brain stitched into a cat's head? This is like the Island of Dr Moreau or something.
>>5355392
>Words have multiple definitions. There is no canotical definition for anything. You know this, don't be obtuse.
Then search it yourself.
>How can you say that with absolute certainty?
Easily.
>There are so many confounding cases. What if someone says they want to be a sex hybrid with female secondary sex traits and male primary sex traits? That's easy to do. Such a body transformation would not be impossible, and with modern medical tech, would be quite easy.
And yet their genes won't change. Their body will still only produce certain chemicals. They'd have to mutilate their body and continually take artificial hormones just to try to match something they will never be.
>Even for the 'harder' body transformations, for you to say that they can never become <x> is to assert that there is a magical quality of <x> that isn't encoded in our physical universe.
Nothing magical about it. It's called DNA. Well, I suppose that is pretty magical in the grand scheme of things.
>But you are passing off your personal opinions as reality. You say the body is fine and the brain is 'broken'. But there is no single definition of a 'working' body or a 'broken' mind, especially not according to reality.
Not my personal opinion at all. It's a verifiable fact. The body is fine, the brain is broken. The body is how it should be, the brain is the bit messing up. You don't need a single, autistic definition of a working body or broken mind to know what they are in reality.
>If this is your logic, them I'm afraid your logic is flawed. Reality has no concept of 'working' or 'broken'. It can't have such concepts, it isn't conscious.This is what I mean by saying that you are projecting personal values onto reality.
I project nothing onto reality. It projects onto me. I'm moulded by reality. The only reason you say there is a 'flaw' in my logic is simply because you refuse to accept it.
People are actually replying to this?
K E K
E
K
Welcome to 4Chan, OP is a troll.
>>5355392
>What if the man identifies as a cat-like man internally and only says "I feel like a cat" so that casual conversations don't take unreasonable periods of time?
He can't possibly know how a cat feels. He has never been one and will never be one. It's a subjective experience and he's outside of it. Much like how people of one gender say they 'feel' like the other gender. They have no fucking idea what the other gender feels like. At all. They can't know. And yet they insist on it, as if they're somehow magically connected to another being.
>It isn't just semantic, it's very important. The fact that societies have the concept of 'a real man' or 'you're not a man until you do <x>' shows us that there is a very important distinction between gender roles and biological sex.
Or it's just an abstract concept and nothing about how a person thinks. Besides, those are for the passing of time, not for the change of genders.
>>5355530
>MY SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE STATUS DOESN'T AFFECT YOU, EXCEPT ALL THOSE TIMES IT DOES SO JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!!!!1!
Enjoy your disorder.
>>5355570
>He can't possibly know how a cat feels. He has never been one and will never be one. It's a subjective experience and he's outside of it. Much like how people of one gender say they 'feel' like the other gender. They have no fucking idea what the other gender feels like. At all. They can't know. And yet they insist on it, as if they're somehow magically connected to another being.
They can know that they don't like the way their body is and want it to be more masculine/feminine. Much like people born into poverty can still want to be rich, despite having no experience of it.
>>5355579
How does it affect you though? Is calling someone who looks like a woman a woman really that much of a burden? I'm starting to think that this thing some cis people have where they're like "but I can't call her a woman because she's not a REAL women" is more of a mental illness than gender dysphoria is.
>>5355582
>They can know that they don't like the way their body is and want it to be more masculine/feminine.
They can assume that's what will fix their condition. But they have no idea that it is what they're actually after.
Take your watered down poverty version (getting money is like a sex change... quite the analogy). A person may want to be rich because they don't like being poor, but if they become rich they may find that it didn't bring them the happiness they wanted.
Basically, all they know is something isn't right. They happen to grab on the idea they need to be more of a certain way. But they will never know what it's like to actually be that way.
>>5355558
>Not my personal opinion at all. It's a verifiable fact
How do I verify it? How do I start asking reality for its definitions of working and broken? How do I ask reality how things 'should' be?
Tell me the secrets of the universe, enlightened one.
>>5355540
Funny. When it's people thinking they're a gender they aren't, it's all fine and dandy. But if they think they're a species they aren't, you think it's stupid. How hypocritical.
uh, yes, wanting to be another kind of human is nowhere near as ridiculous as wanting to be a whole other species, I'm suprised you even tried to make a point out of this
it's also worth mentioning that there's never been such a thing as species dysphoria, and even in the case of people who want to be animals, I'm unaware of any cases where it had a harmful impact and wasn't resolved with therapy
sure, the analogy is freaky, but you're the one who brought it up
>As a person so mutilated that they're almost unrecognisable, and yet their mind and DNA remain human.
DNA tends not to be something you're likely to notice, y'know
and how would his mind differ from a cat's
>As someone with a very serious mental illness.
if he's content as a cat, with the symptoms of dysphoria gone, doesn't that mean the treatment worked?
>So he's a man's brain stitched into a cat's head? This is like the Island of Dr Moreau or something.
maybe it is, but you brought the analogy up, so answer my question, how would you see him?
>>5355589
>How does it affect you though?
A variety of ways, really. Having to deal with stupid extra pronouns and shit. Weak people crying for 'safe spaces' to protect their delusions. The wrong genders using bathrooms and making people feel uncomfortable. Mentally ill people allowed to just roam the streets because people have twisted what 'normal' means. Being forced to lie when referencing someone else. Completely watering down all sense of male and female with weird, unnecessary deviants. And so on.
>Is calling someone who looks like a woman a woman really that much of a burden?
Yeah, Caitlyn certainly is stunning and brave...
>I'm starting to think that this thing some cis people have where they're like "but I can't call her a woman because she's not a REAL women" is more of a mental illness than gender dysphoria is.
Yeah, it's normal people that have the mental illness.
>>5355610
0/10
>>5355610
>uh, yes, wanting to be another kind of human is nowhere near as ridiculous as wanting to be a whole other species, I'm suprised you even tried to make a point out of this
Wanting to be anything you aren't and will never be is at the same level of ridiculousness entirely. You might as well be transitioning to a house plant for what little you actually achieve.
>it's also worth mentioning that there's never been such a thing as species dysphoria, and even in the case of people who want to be animals, I'm unaware of any cases where it had a harmful impact and wasn't resolved with therapy
Ah, here's more of the hypocritical 'my disorder is special' tripe. There wasn't such a thing as body dysmorphia either until they first coined the term. That's how it works, see? But sure, let's pretend on your brand of crazy is the one that has to be given in to.
>sure, the analogy is freaky, but you're the one who brought it up
Because they exist. But I do find it how hypocritical you are about people suffering the same body dysmorphia but for a different aspect.
>DNA tends not to be something you're likely to notice, y'know
Nope, but it's still there.
>and how would his mind differ from a cat's
Greatly, unless you've carved away at his brain until he literally has nothing about a human left and then you've basically got a retarded human brain in a mutilated human's body.
>if he's content as a cat, with the symptoms of dysphoria gone, doesn't that mean the treatment worked?
The treatment of cancer isn't a success because the patient dies from it. It's a success when it's gone.
>maybe it is, but you brought the analogy up, so answer my question, how would you see him?
As a retarded human brain in the stolen body of a cat. A freak, to put it bluntly.
>>5355558
>And yet their genes won't change.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>5355598
>people might want to be rich for the wrong reasons and then be dissatisfied
how does this relate to people who transition and then are for the most part satisfied with it
also, the lives of rich people are hardly a deep and profound mystery, it's entirely plausible for a poor person to gain some understanding of a wealthy lifestyle without having to live it themselves
it feels like you're grasping at straws anon
>>5355622
>being forced to deal with extra pronouns
tumblr does not represent all trannies
>weak people crying for safe spaces
tumblr does not represent all trannies
>making people feel uncomfortable
the fact you brought this up immediately after complaining about "safe spaces" is laughable desu
>mentally ill people being allowed to reoam the streets
as opposed to what, locking them all up in institutions?
especially when their condition doesn't pose a danger to themselves or others?
>being forced to lie
muh chromosomes
>>5355622
You didn't say anything that affects you.
>>5355687
>how does this relate to people who transition and then are for the most part satisfied with it
No idea. It wasn't my bad analogy.
>also, the lives of rich people are hardly a deep and profound mystery, it's entirely plausible for a poor person to gain some understanding of a wealthy lifestyle without having to live it themselves
It's also not subjective.
>it feels like you're grasping at straws anon
When I'm presented with a shit analogy, blame the presenter.
>tumblr does not represent all trannies
Nope, but it represents enough for this sort of shit to be leaking into the real world.
>the fact you brought this up immediately after complaining about "safe spaces" is laughable desu
A girl going to the toilet and having to deal with Patricia pissing all over the seats with his shenis is a very different kettle of fish.
>as opposed to what, locking them all up in institutions?
Some of them probably need it, yeah.
>especially when their condition doesn't pose a danger to themselves or others?
How would we know when they're just given the stamp of 'normal' when they are anything but?
>muh chromosomes
Muh science.
>>5355703
How did you even turn on your PC today with a brain that fucktarded?
>>5355715
>>muh chromosomes
>Muh science.
If you knew the first thing about chromosomes or science, you would know that sex isn't a genotype, and that it is a variable property that not only changes per-cell, but over time according to hormonal regulation. Chromosomes barely have anything to do with sex, other than seeding it in some cases. Oh and their effect on sex can be completely negated, so there's that.
>>5355737
You're thinking of crocodiles, not people. Try again.
>>5355745
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
No, I'm really not.
>>5355622
>A variety of ways, really. Having to deal with stupid extra pronouns and shit
Most trans people don't use non-standard pronouns.
>Weak people crying for 'safe spaces' to protect their delusions
Hardly something limited to tran people.
>The wrong genders using bathrooms and making people feel uncomfortable
Because they've been physically harmed for using the "right" bathroom. And if the bathroom has stalls like most do, it's not like you'll be seeing their genitals anyway. Which means, for all intents and purposes, you're just whining about ugly people using normal people's bathrooms. Which isn't our problem if it triggers you.
>Mentally ill people allowed to just roam the streets because people have twisted what 'normal' means.
There's no harm in that, these people aren't mentally ill in the sense that they run out into traffic, hurt people, or get naked in the street. Nothing of the sort. They're not completely non-functional, for the most part they have the same behavior patterns as any other human, they have a condition with fairly specific symptoms.
>Yeah, it's normal people that have the mental illness.
If it's literally that hard for you to call people by the proper pronouns and have to make a fuss about it instead, then it IS debilitating and could arguably be classified as mental illness.
>>5355715
the analogy works, i was complaining about your objection to it
a poor person can gain some knowledge of wealthy lifestyle without needing to live it themselves, you claimed they somehow couldn't until they'd lived it for themselves
>Nope, but it represents enough for this sort of shit to be leaking into the real world.
regardless, tumblr is the problem, not trannies
also, bear in mind the majority of SJWs and "allies" are not trans at all
>A girl going to the toilet and having to deal with Patricia pissing all over the seats with his shenis is a very different kettle of fish.
not really, cis women hover and get piss on the seats all the time
plus the majority of trannies wouldn't do this?
>Some of them probably need it, yeah.
"some of them", huh. What about the ones who don't?
>muh chromosomes
are you sure you don't have a chromosomal disorder yourself anon?
how do you know you don't have klinefelter's or xx male syndrome?
>>5355754
Yeah, you really are. In humans there is genotypical sex (XX or XY). It results in phenotypical sex (external expressions).
They do not vary between cells (excluding mothers that have birthed sons, who oddly do contain some male chromosomes).
And yes, chromosomes have everything do with sex.
All of what you've said fits crocodiles, and their temperature-based gender determination system.
>>5355715
>A girl going to the toilet and having to deal with Patricia pissing all over the seats with his shenis is a very different kettle of fish.
You think trannies don't face any problems? What they face is FAR worse than watching someone pee. Seriously. And most bathrooms have stalls anyway, so this is really a non-issue.
>Some of them probably need it, yeah.
Not unless they have other conditions that go beyond gender dysphoria.
>How would we know when they're just given the stamp of 'normal' when they are anything but?
Trannies aren't labeled "normal" except by right-wing strawmen of liberal people. They're not normal, but their condition has limited scope, it's effects are limited to gender identity, in other regards they mostly act like any other person.
>>5355771
Except the main gene for the development of gonads isn't even on the 23rd pair.
>>5355771
XX and XY is not absolute. It's actually a specific part of the Y chromosome that determines sex in humans, and if anything interferes with the operation of that part, it will cause a phenotype that doesn't match the chromosomal genotype.
>>5355721
I feel like I struck a nerve.
Ranting about things that don't affect you in any way doesn't actually make them affect you.
>>5355765
>the analogy works, i was complaining about your objection to it
One minute you're criticising the analogy, the next you're saying it's fine. Oh you.
>a poor person can gain some knowledge of wealthy lifestyle without needing to live it themselves, you claimed they somehow couldn't until they'd lived it for themselves
Wealth is entirely different to have a fucking pre-built mindset. Drop the broken analogy, it will just waste both our times.
>regardless, tumblr is the problem, not trannies
>also, bear in mind the majority of SJWs and "allies" are not trans at all
The problem is the attitude to it. People don't want it to be scrutinised, they want it to just contradict reality and everyone accept it for normality. Which produced the sort of culture we're seeing now in the real world.
>not really, cis women hover and get piss on the seats all the time
>plus the majority of trannies wouldn't do this?
You were basically missing that I was saying there's a guy with a dick in the same place as them. It wasn't about the piss...
>some of them", huh. What about the ones who don't?
That should be obvious.
>are you sure you don't have a chromosomal disorder yourself anon?
Well I do carry a faulty gene for Alport's Syndrome passed down from my mother, but luckily it doesn't affect me.
>how do you know you don't have klinefelter's or xx male syndrome?
I have no symptoms for it.
>>5355782
>You think trannies don't face any problems? What they face is FAR worse than watching someone pee. Seriously. And most bathrooms have stalls anyway, so this is really a non-issue.
So everyone else has to suffer because they drew the short straw? No thanks.
>Not unless they have other conditions that go beyond gender dysphoria.
That was implied. As was already pointed out earlier, there's a higher rate of mental disorders among people who have the condition.
>Trannies aren't labeled "normal" except by right-wing strawmen of liberal people. They're not normal, but their condition has limited scope, it's effects are limited to gender identity, in other regards they mostly act like any other person.
Who won that 'woman of the year' award, again? Trust me, it's being pushed as normal.
>>5355785
Except the gene that signals for testes is on the Y chromosome.
>>5355817
>everyone
Trans people have been in bathrooms for a longer time than you've lived.
>that woman of the year award
Do you know how relevant said award actually is? Of course you don't because you're a retard blown in the wind by media sensationalism.
Right, you bunch of crazies, I'm off to bed. Argue amongst yourselves for a while, and try not to off yourselves before tomorrow starts!
>>5355803
>One minute you're criticising the analogy, the next you're saying it's fine. Oh you.
i was criticising your response, not the analogy
>The problem is the attitude to it. People don't want it to be scrutinised, they want it to just contradict reality and everyone accept it for normality. Which produced the sort of culture we're seeing now in the real world.
is the idea wrong in and of itself?
the problem with SJWs is that they take it too far, but is being accommodating of other people to some degree bad?
inb4 slippery slope etc
>>5355803
there are guys with dicks around women all the time, so?
please don't jump to women's bathrooms being a "safe space" when you yourself pointed out how immature this is earlier
you can have a penis without intending to commit sexual assault, y'know
>That should be obvious.
you've made it anything but
>>5355803
>You were basically missing that I was saying there's a guy with a dick in the same place as them. It wasn't about the piss...
And again, they're usually in separate stalls. Most people period are uncomfortable being right next to another person with their genitals out in the open, even if they're the same gender.
>>5355817
>So everyone else has to suffer because they drew the short straw? No thanks.
No, I'm saying the remote chance of seeing someone pee (which is equally disgusting if it's someone of the same gender) is literally a non-issue. The world isn't perfect, sometimes you have to see things you consider gross. It's not something worth getting worked up over.
>Who won that 'woman of the year' award, again? Trust me, it's being pushed as normal.
That just means she's accepted as a woman. If a blind women was named woman of the year, would you say blindness is being pushed as normal?
There's this one teency weency little hole in trans logic that trans people cannot seem to fill.
Gay men actually do think like women, yet they are perfectly content with being male. Gay women actually do think like men, yet are perfectly content with being female.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex/
Where does this leave trans people? At what point does thinking like the opposite sex require you to make other people believe you are the opposite sex to be happy?
>>5355943
>trannies and blind women are both women
>>5357572
See, I've been thinking about this and I've come up with this conclusion: trannies and fags sit on the same spectrum.
>0 - normal
>1 - /fit/ (seriously, those cunts get way too happy about seeing other nude guys)
>2 - bi fags
>3 - fags that might not set off your gaydar
>4 - obvious fags
>5 - flaming fags
>6 - dress up and shit and pretend to be other gender
>7 - take pills and dress up and shit but no surgery
>8 - guys with tits and keep their dicks/girls cutting tits off but keep their vags
>9 - trannies in full delusion mode
>10 - crazy trannies that off themselves post-op
Never go to 11.
>>5357572
I don't fucking know. Honestly I don't know.
All I know is that I was fucking miserable about being a man, I hated my body and it disgusted me ever since puberty started. I went to therapy, got on estro, and my gender dysphoria turned off like a light switch.
You can analyze that however the fuck you want, just please leave me alone and let me mess with my body the way I want to mess with my body.
>>5357822
>guy thinks he's a girl
>'... my gender dysphoria turned off like a light switch.'
If you wont #drop us, and help 4chan give us separate channels; please ask 4chan to at least allow /lgbtpol/ to be its own separate hellhole/paradise-for-you-other-losers.
>>5357822
wouldn't that mean you became okay with being a man?
>>5357875
That's the thing. It's not that the therapy and estro made his disease go away and he could go on living a normal life as a guy. No, it got so bad that now he fully believes the lie that he's a girl, which makes him happy now.
>>5357885
it alleviated the symptoms, anon, that seems like effective treatment to me
it might not be a cure, but this is true for plenty of medically accepted treatments for all sorts of conditions, and as it stands, its the most effective option we have
trannies are well aware of the limits of current technology and the fact that they aren't proper women, but getting closer to that helps, at least
it sounds like you believe we have some sort of responsibility to not pursue transition or something
>>5357822
Why were you miserable about being a man?
>>5357995
>thinks giving in to the disease is curing it
>thinks trannies can 'transition' at all, not just delude themselves
>>5358089
the ones who give into it are those who kill themselves
and you can call it what you like, but it works better than anything else we have
transitioning may not make your body fully female, but it at least makes it more feminine, which helps
>>5357795
>trans and blind aren't both adjectives that can be applied to women
>>5357875
No, because going on estrogen and living as a woman is itself what "turns off" the dysphoria. As soon as you stop doing that, the dysphoria comes back. A lot of medicine works like that, certain conditions can't actually be eliminated, and the symptoms come back as soon as you stop taking the medication.
>>5358089
You're literally so obsessed with "curing" it that you consider treating NEITHER the condition or the symptoms preferable to treating just the symptoms.
>>5353464
Yes yes a thousand times yes
Dysphoria should be treated, transgender people are not sane people
It should be seen as the (theres not a synonym for disease that wont trigger you) disease that it is and from there decide what is the best course of treatment/action/whatever
I dont have it and I'll never will so idc tbqh
>>5358380
>transgender people are not sane people
They're only "insane" in a very limited sense, having gender dysphoria and an increased risk of depression and so on. It's not the sort of insanity that we usually think of when we hear the term, it doesn't mean they're totally incapable of rational thought or anything like that.
>theres not a synonym for disease that wont trigger you
"neurological condition"
>Dysphoria should be treated
>decide what is the best course of treatment/action/whatever
The medical community recognizes it as a disorder, and considers the best treatment to be HRT and possibly gender transition.
>>5358102
>transitioning may not make your body fully female
Not even remotely female. It's just a mutilated male body. Circus-level freaks.
>>5357795
>le david mitchell reaction pic
>>5353464
Robert dear please, go back to getting high in your trailer. Leave medicine to the doctors.
>>5353464
>>5353480
>>5353497
>>5353517
>>An established body of medical research demonstrates the effectiveness and medical necessity of mental health care, hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery as forms of therapeutic treatment for many people diagnosed with GID… Therefore, be it RESOLVED, that the AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder.
>McHugh does cite one study from 2011, by Cecilia Dhejne, MD and colleagues at Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. However, he misunderstands Dr. Dhejnes work. In the paper, Dr. Dhejne states that the study was not designed to draw conclusions on the efficacy of transgender surgeries, yet McHugh does exactly that. A closer reading of the paper shows that the increased mortality is in those who had surgery before 1989, and that mortality in trans people after 1989 is not statistically different from the general population. A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejnes work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
>The American Psychiatric Association and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health no longer view transgender identity as inherently pathological. Dr. McHughs views are stuck in the past.
So why again are you guys begging the goverment to ban medicine that's widely recognized as successful?
Please, get your infantile handouts elsewhere.
>>5358389
>It's not the sort of insanity that we usually think of when we hear the term
believe me I know, I have depression but im not sad
im actually never sad nor happy, yet im depressed
>it doesn't mean they're totally incapable of rational thought or anything like that
of course it doesnt, who said that?
>theres not a synonym for disease that wont trigger you
>"neurological condition"
its a synonym, Im not going to arrange the letters in a way that it doesnt make you cry rape
(not talking about you, anon)
>Dysphoria should be treated
>decide what is the best course of treatment/action/whatever
>The medical community recognizes it as a disorder, and considers the best treatment to be HRT and possibly gender transition.
the best current treatmeant, getting rid of te dysphoria itself I bet would be a much better treatmeant
whether it can happen or not its another subject, but we have to accept that the current way of dealing with it carries very varied results
actually passing is very rare (in my opinion as a mainly gay man with an apreciation for women) and I dont think people want to become transgender, people want to be from the opposite sex which will never happen sadly
a question for anti-transgender people
what would your opinion of it be if technology reached the point where we could give people a 100% female body, right down to chromosomes and being able to reproduce
>>5358626
hell yeah, i'm down with that.
but since no such technology exists, trannies can get fucked
>>5358651
where do you draw the line?
>>5358598
>in my opinion as a mainly gay man with an apreciation for women
In your opinion as a vapid slut, could you tell us why in a way that doesn't make it incredibly obvious you're missing a lot of trans women and having false positives on significantly more cis women than there are trans women?
>>5358659
imo, I will consider transwomen as women if they:
>pass
>female sounding voice/no fag voice
>vagina and titties
Everyone else is strictly in the trans category.
However, you'll come across people who will absolutely refuse to consider passing post op transwomen as women, because you guys were originally born as biological males. It can't be helped, but my personal definition of women is a bit more lenient. Even then, some cases can be pretty grey, like for example if Caitlyn Jenner had a passing voice with the body of a fit 40 year old woman and vagina, would I still consider her a man? Depends on several factors.
>>5358671
anon please have some respect for the discussion
>>5358694
>discussion
frosh, plz, I've wiped my ass with better written first year essays
>>5358626
They've still got the wrong brain in it. Putting a dog's brain in a cat won't make it a cat. And as much as trannies want to deny it, they don't have the brain of the opposite sex, they have a brain of their sex with errors in it.
>>5358787
what's the difference, then?
>>5358799
The difference between what?
>>5358873
a tranny brain and a female one
or hell, a male brain and a female one
I'd have more respect for trannies if they actually engaged in debate for once, instead of putting their fingers in their ears and screaming.
>I say, so it is (when it suits me)
>>5358917
did you even read the thread lol
>>5358916
Male and female brains are wired differently. That's an established fact. It's why males and females will, on average, excel in different areas.
A tranny brain is still wired the same as their own sex. The problem is they have some areas that are fucked. These areas do show some leanings to the opposite gender, but is mostly their own sex still in its structure.
So a tranny's brain in a woman's body isn't a woman. Physically, yeah. Mentally, nope.
>>5358934
anon it's no good if you can't say what the actual differences are
if tranny and female brains are fundamentally wired differently, one would expect this to have effects, so please, point out a few for me
I'd prefer these examples to be for people on hrt, since the hormones do have a noticeable effect on brain functionality and thought processes
>>5358917
>implying you engage in debate
Please, you get btfo anytime actual science gets put on the line.
>>5358961
Evidence suggests that HRT does indeed affect the brain, so even if only a certain portion is feminized, HRT still alters the structure.
>http://www.eje-online.org/content/155/suppl_1/S107.full
>Results: Compared with controls, anti-androgen + estrogen treatment decreased brain volumes of male-to-female subjects towards female proportions, while androgen treatment in female-to-male subjects increased total brain and hypothalamus volumes towards male proportions.
>Conclusions: The findings suggest that, throughout life, gonadal hormones remain essential for maintaining aspects of sex-specific differences in the human brain.
>>5358961
>anon it's no good if you can't say what the actual differences are
Sorry your autism is so crippling that you need exact differences. How about you go look it up yourself?
>if tranny and female brains are fundamentally wired differently, one would expect this to have effects, so please, point out a few for me
Increased aggression, depression and anxiety for the tranny. Women's brains are smaller. Go look them up. I'm not a search engine.
>I'd prefer these examples to be for people on hrt, since the hormones do have a noticeable effect on brain functionality and thought processes
Right, so you already knew that hormones will affect how people think, and yet you didn't know male and female brains were different? Amazing.
>>5359078
You're assuming normal brain development as a male for the trans woman, which is already obviously not the case.
Also women are more susceptible to depression and anxiety.
>>5359107
>You're assuming normal brain development as a male for the trans woman, which is already obviously not the case.
Nope. I already said, there are areas in tranny brains that are faulty. A faulty tranny brain is not the same as a male or a female brain, but will always be closer to their sex than the opposite sex.
>Also women are more susceptible to depression and anxiety.
And women have different brains to men. It just so happens that trannies are also more susceptible than either to other mental disorders than the primary one they suffer from.
>>5359078
anon don't give me that "it's not my job to educate you" crap, if you base your argument on there being brain differences, you should at least be able to say what they are
I am hardly asking for a detailed in depth explanation, I just want you to say what the effects are.
as for the effects you did describe, how did you determine trannies being more susceptible to these
additionally, are you sure those are because of brain chemistry, and not because of the difficult life that trannies have to deal with
>>5359147
I'm sure, of course, that your statement is not heavily feels based and actually has backing in more than one peer-reviewed study which is always conveniently cherry picked to argue this point, yes?
>>5358917
>Specifically, in a 304 voxel sized cluster affecting the left pre- and postcentral gyri a 32 voxel sized cluster affecting the left posterior cingulate, calcarine gyrus, and the precuneus, showed lower GM volume in MTF transgender patients and female controls compared to FTM transgender patients and male controls. The opposite direction of differences could be observed in a 123 voxel sized cluster in the right occipital lobe involving the middle and inferior occipital, the fusiform, and the lingual gyri, in a 42 voxel sized cluster affecting the right inferior temporal gyrus, where regional GM volume proved to be higher in MTF transgender patients and female controls compared with FTM transgender patients and male controls /PMC3877116/
>Compared to men and women, MtFs showed differences in a neural network including the medial prefrontal gyrus, the insula, and the precuneus when responding to male vs. female voices. With increased voice morphing men recruited more prefrontal areas compared to women and MtFs, while MtFs revealed a pattern more similar to women. On a behavioral and neuronal level, our results support the feeling of MtFs reporting they cannot identify with their assigned sex. /PMC4222943./
>We explored the specific hypothesis that male-to-female transsexualism is associated with gene variants responsible for undermasculinization and/or feminization...To date, this is the largest genetic study of transsexualism conducted. We observed a significant association between longer AR gene polymorphisms and male-to-female transsexualism. Longer CAG repeats in the AR gene lead to reduced binding of the AR protein to co-activator, due to its inhibitory interaction with the receptor, resulting in less effective testosterone signalling, a mechanism typically involved in masculinization of the brain during early development /PMC3402034/
Funny how the mentally ill assume their tinfoiling supersedes studies
>>5357820
What about the MtF trans people who still prefer women?
>>5357822
Do you ever have times where you think maybe you aren't really happy? Do you ever think to yourself maybe you've just convinced yourself that you're happy, even if it's just once in a while and for a quick second?
>>5360449
They need to grow the fuck up and deal with being straight men.
>>5360475
All of them do this shit. They pretend they're happy and they think it's all good. But they know they aren't. They won't admit it, most not even to themselves, but deep down they know they aren't happy. It's why they try to drown it out with constant reminders of how nice it is to pretend to be something else. They know full well normal people don't even think about it, but they need to obsess over it to distract themselves.
>>5358787
>they don't have the brain of the opposite sex, they have a brain of their sex with errors in it.
Those "errors" do happen to affect the one part of the brain that really defines "brain sex".
>>5359078
>How about you go look it up yourself?
If you want to convince people of something, you have to support your arguments yourself. If you refuse to do so, that means either you're not interested in debate, or you have no argument. In either case, you have no business in adult discussions if you're going to act like that.
>>5360686
>wasting time trying to convince trannies of anything
Dude, they already can't even work out the simple fact of their own gender. They're hardly worth convincing at all.
>>5360547
If transbians are just straight men, then straight mtfs are just gay men. Blanchard's theories are completely incompatible with the idea that transgenderism is a legitimate thing in any way. People always use his argument that "if you're trans and like women you're just a straight male fetishist lol", even straight mtfs do, when this was the same person who literally thought straight mtfs were just hypersexual gay men who only transitioned to trick straight men into having sex with them. If you actually studied Blanchard, you'd realize that AGP is actually the MORE legit of the two types, as it is actually about wanting to be a woman, whereas the "homosexual transsexuals" just want to fuck straight men, it has nothing to do with what gender they themselves want to be.
>>5360571
So I suppose being miserable and suicidal all the time is somehow preferable? Literally everyone over the age of 11 has regrets sometimes, it's not something unique to trans people.
>>5360729
Then why do you keep posting?
Will SRS be looked back on like we look back on lobotomies and trepanning today?
>>5360836
both of which are still used for certain problems?
>>5353464
>Just turn that frown upside down and do stuff you enjoy! Depression is a made up disease
How you sound
>TRANSGENDER ISNT A MENTAL ILLNESS
>find me one tranny who won't immediately talk about its debilitating mental illness
>>5360756
Have a guess.
>>5360739
>Literally everyone over the age of 11 has regrets sometimes, it's not something unique to trans people.
Trannies are the only ones that will cut themselves up and then end it all because of regrets, though. Crazies gonna craze.
>>5365923
trans people are more normal than cis people. trans people are also much smarter.
>>5365951
What the even fuck?
>>5362243
That's kind of what this board gives us though. Those that grow past that phase rarely post here anymore because they want to socialize like other people.
Another one of these threads? Who gives a shit either way? I'm tired of hearing about all this gendershit on this board. That goes double for you OP.
>>5365965
transphobe go home =)
>>5353464
I agree that there should be more effective and less drastic ways of dealing with this when slashing your body for the slight and faraway chance that maybe it will make you feel better about yourself
As long as we don't do reeducation camps or other Nazi-tier shit
Unfortunately just as with so many other things it seems you are not allowed to have a balanced or alternative view on this issue. You ether tumblr or /pol/ and if you not one, then you are the other. And in the end nothing gets solved
>>5366037
lol you think that actually happens?
>>5353520
Haha this is literally why I'm here. (And I'm gay)
>>5353464
>Show people that gender isn't based on hobbies or preferences, but your physical self...
I don't think you understand why transsexuals are transsexual. Trans people need the opposite sex's body in order to overcome the pain of dysphoria, masculinity and femininity are just a tool for them to help them blend in with their target sex; whether they are masculine or feminine is incidental.
>And when you finally come to terms with that, you will find it much, much easier to cope with who you are.
It's not something someone can live with, the trans suicide rate is 41% for God's sake. It's like hang a foot with gangrene, it's painful and if it's not amputated it will kill you; the difference is though that you get the added benefit of people saying "that's crazy don't cut off your foot!"
Presently the only treatment option is a full transition. Trust me just about any trans person would beg you to make them not trans if you could.
>>5366080
transtrender go home =)
>>5353464
Hey OP, you've been making these threads on /lgbt/ for months now, aren't you getting tired? This board was actually fun before you came along, can you please leave again? Thanks.
I was wondering why people even bother to respond to threads like these, but I suppose even if it's a repetitive hassle, bit by bit we can resolve misunderstandings like this, so I suppose it's good after all.
>>5366150
>slashing... slight and faraway chance... better about yourself.
You're using some emotionally charged language to describe a surgical procedure, but I'll acknowledge your having avoided "mutilation".
You're mistaken about the effectiveness of transition, though. Between bio-identical hormones, improved surgeries, less sexualization by therapists who are providing actual after-care, and greater social acceptance in general, "feeling better" is extremely likely, although "feeling perfect" is not. Faraway I can't disagree with. There are places where it can take years to begin treatment. Thankfully, improvements in mood and self-image often begin shortly thereafter.
>... balanced or alternative...
Would you be absolutely clear on what that is?
Transgendered people are just mistakes. And, if they can't cope with body dysphoria without submitting to a shitload of surgeries, they're better off killing themselves.
>>5367441
>the typical words of a welfare leach
Sure m8
>>5367478
Welfare leech? I work 40-50 hours each week. But, it's funny that's all you could come up with in retort. Any mentally ill person that can't cope with their condition is, in fact, better off dead. Otherwise, you're just burdening yourself and annoying everyone around you.
