I'm... hoo gee, unable to comprehend why /anyone/ would ever want to be a girl, much less why mtfs on this board are so rampant. From when I learned out what being transgender was, my first thought was "is there a version of this where the boy wants to be the girl?". So it's really fuckin impossible for me to comprehend.
Do trans girls feel the same way I do, but about us trans guys? It's just something I wonder about sometimes.
>>5302093
So what you are saying is that you are so self-centered you can't possibly imagine your situation, but in reverse?
>>5302093
Nope. I know we fucking hate our bodies equally no matter if we are born with male or female apparatus.
I only want to say good luck to you guys.
>>5302093
>Do trans girls feel the same way I do, but about us trans guys? It's just something I wonder about sometimes.
Exactly the same, really. When I was like 11 or so I just took it for a given that boys wanted to be girls and just had to put up with getting the short end of the stick. It's legitimately hard for me to imagine actually wanting to be male, it feels like I'd have to be a completely different person to accommodate that
>>5302093
its all just a big fucking mess really.
>>5302093
You realize just what that artist likes doing with all their Kawoshin, right?
>>5302093
I'm MtF, it's weird how I do identify with FtMs and understand what they're going through, but some part of me is screaming "you're going the wrong way you idiots!".
I always used to think that ALL boys wanted to be girls but nobody ever admitted it. That was until I drunkenly mentioned the theory once to some bros. It didn't go well.
>>5302093
I think it comes from being so sincerely opposed to the indignities your own body placed on you, but yes. I know at least a few personally who feel this way. The most eloquent said this: "you're going the wrong way!"
I think of it as a sort of failure of empathy to overcome personal prioritization, though.
>>5302122
No? I can get how you might take that from my post though, I... really didn't word it the best way. I actually looked at it after I put it out and thought. whoa. did i seriously just fugging type this?
I just can't see anything appealing at all about being a girl, my mind literally cannot fall on any redeeming parts of female life. It's probably just part of this mental illness known as being transgender.
>>5302139
>When I was like 11 or so I just took it for a given that boys wanted to be girls and just had to put up with getting the short end of the stick.
This exactly
>>5302168
That's fine, people in the opposite position as you would say their own version of that, so really, you're normal m8.
It's not something I usually say, because I really understand the hating your own body thing.
But I have similar thoughts in regards to trans guys. I've seen some FTM timelines and I just ... it's a strange feeling. Like I say, I understand dysphoria and how it makes someone feel but, I'll never really be able to relate to why somebody would want to look male, why the fuck anybody would want to be a man - why anybody would find appealing the effects of testosterone.
It's essentially watching somebody give up everything I desperately want in return for everything I hate and that has essentially fucked my life.
>>5302122
Now don't start with that, anon. I have seen MtFs do this shit far more frequently on this very board.
t. Non-retarded MtF
OP I understand the otherside, but only the straight ones. I don't understand the fag/gay FtMs who want to become little femme boys and still get fucked by big strong men... that makes no sense to me. I understand the FtMs that want to be males, being a male is great if thats what you want, if you want dat muscle, dat leadership position, dat masculinity. I didn't want it, I want other things, but I can understand wanting it. I just find it pathetic when FtMs don't do anything to achieve it and remain pudgy lesbos
>>5302164
>I used to think all boys wanted to be girls
Thats cause you are socially retarded.
>>5302298
The proper term is internalized misandry.
>>5302249
Those people are also self centered and foolish.
This is not a gendered phenomenon.
>>5302512
You're an ass, can't blame op for feeling the way they do.
>>5302540
I never blamed OP for feeling the way they do. I do think that they're a fool and they lack the ability to empathize with people who have the same condition but in reverse. Something like that should be simple to empathize with, and yet OP can only think about their own experiences with the problem. They have no ability to see through anothers eyes. They can only understand THEIR own problem. Their thoughts are centered around themselves. Being foolish and unempathetic doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you foolish and unempathetic
>>5302168
Tbqh I don't really understand people that transition primarily for social/lifestyle reasons. Unless you live in some 3rd world shithole social roles are really stretchable for both genders, for women more so than men, but then you shouldn't give a shit what strangers think of you anyway.
I find it quite laughable that people get upset from getting misgendered or deadnamed. Obviously looking like a man in a dress/turbodyke puts you in a weird spot but for most people that is something they can easily overcome if they would put in more work or if everything fails there is still surgery.
The few actual differences in how people treat different genders are so miniscule that it really does not make that much of a difference. I've always tried to treat people of either gender as similar as I could and except for very entitled females I never had any problems with it.
As for how other people are treating you it really is mostly about how you act and if somebody thinks you don't "fit" they are most likely mentally challenged themselves.
I think it's pathetic when people overcompensate after being repressed for too long and turn into caricatures of their wanted gender.
To me the body is nothing more than a shell and if you're not putting extraordinaire harm on it like cutting off your limbs people should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want. You are distressed by your cunt so much that you you can't wait a couple more years for better surgery techniques and would rather live with a blow-up dick? Sure, go ahead, it doesn't concern anybody but your doctors, partner(s) and yourself anyhow.
If anything I think that women that don't appreciate their breasts, men that think their slightly bigger than average dick is not enough or people that just straight up let themselves go and turn into fatty slobs way more stupid and annoying and in fact a lot less relatable to me than ftms.
So OP, what do you hate about being female? What do you hope to acquire with T?
>>5302554
Ey yo, OP here. I probably /do/ have a bit of problems with empathy, but I always try really hard to understand. But, I was just simply wondering if any trans girls were unable to comprehend why we wanted to be men, like I felt but in reverse. It's my own mental illness that makes me unable to comprehend, and I was just trying to get information to make up for the handicap
But maybe that's just my excuse. I dunno. I just want to be a real guy so bad that it clouds my judgement, so I'm probably a fool like you say
>>5302622
Oh gosh, uh. Is everything a viable answer?? If not, well. Short story long:
I hate having this terrible case of vagina and no dick, I hate looking at tits in my giant ass bathroom mirror every time I want to go in for a shower (luckily I never developed past an A though), Menstruating fugging sucks, especially since I get really bad pain ;_;, I hate not being able to grow stubble, I hate these stupid disgusting noodle arms of mine, I hate my voice that gets me called ma'am on the phone, and most of all I hate getting dreams where I'm a cis male and everything is happy, and then waking up to my miserable life of being referred to as a girl. I could definitely continue listing more things I dislike about female life, but. I'm pretty sure you get the point? I'm way dysphoric, I want a dick, and I know that's a mental illness. But I can't help it, I hate being in a female body. Sorry I guess, I know it's weird.
>>5302698
That sounds like legit Dysphoria.
Trans girls have this terrible case of dick and no vagina, they hate seeing their flat chest and their straight hips in the bathroom mirror every time they want to go for a shower (lucky ones might have gyno or a girlish figure though), having balls can suck, especially since if they get hit even really light it causes bad pain ;_;, They hate always having to shave off stubble and dealing with 5oclock shadow, They hate those bulky arms of theirs, They hate their voice that gets them called sir on the phone, and most of them hate getting dreams where they're a cis female and everything is happy, and then waking up to their miserable life of being referred to as a boy. I could definitely continue listing more things they dislike about male life, but. I'm pretty sure you get the point? They're way dysphoric, They want a vagina, and they know that's a mental illness. But they can't help it, they hate being in a male body. Sorry I guess, I know it's weird.
>>5302782
If you're trying to guilt trip me, then it's working
I'm sorry. I won't make a thread like this again
>>5302782
>They want a vagina, and they know that's a mental illness. But they can't help it, they hate being in a male body. Sorry I guess, I know it's weird.
a lot of them are okay with having a dick and majority keeps it. Not sure if because money issues or they actually want to.
>>5302801
Not trying to guilt trip you, the genuine intention was to make it as easy as possible for you to understand.
>>5302180
I felt the same way. Apparently other guys don't.
>>5302802
Money, those 40k or whatever are much better spent on chasing after every little flaw you see in the mirror.
Always cover up that part of if my body and while it might be nice if money weren't an issue. It'd be utterly meaningless to spend anything for it if the parts of your body you always see in the mirror disgust you.
>>5302168
>No?
>literally
Head on back to tumblr and post some pictures of your boy tits, hunny.
>>5302801
If you still don't really get it keep asking questions
>>5302801
I think they were just saying they've got their own version of what you feel, not putting you down or anything. I mean, you don't think people would nearly kill themselves with adolescent eating disorders to try and stave off that crap if it weren't this big, did you .
Nothing wrong with you asking questions. Don't feel bad, we feel for you too.
>>5302698
It helps to think of being trans of your body being a mismatch for specific parts of your brain, a neurological disorder, instead of a mental illness, even if uninformed jerks will insist it is.
Some cis people will say they would love to live as the other gender because of x privilege or something similar but if they actually had to deal with having a body that does not fit their neurological layout they would flip their shit as well.
Either way it seems it's mostly not female life you hate but your female physiology. I would say that's a pretty important difference. Most of these can be fixed with just T alone but since you referred to your noodle arms I would suggest you visit >>>/fit/ and start working out already so you don't end up looking like a turbodyke or a femboy. T alone already helps muscle hypertrophy a lot but 2*0 is still 0.
Don't let yourself feel guilt tripped, their post is just yours swapped and it's not like you can transplant brains and even then I would say it is still more ethical to just give people cross-sex hormones.
If you have such strong dysphoria I actually don't understand why you can't understand the other side as long as you don't put yourself in their place.
>>5302799
That's a very true-trans post of you anon.
I would love having a vagina but I like having a dick equally as much, guess I'll wait until I can have both.
I don't hate my flat chest but I'd rather have boobs anyway, got kind of lucky with the hips I guess.
Getting cunt-punted hurts equally as much as getting kicked in the balls.
I don't like my facial hair but I dislike it in general, although it fits some people very well.
I don't dislike my "bulky" arms because I think being a weak doll for people to shove around and having to be protected is absolutely disgusting.
I don't think most people genuinely like their voice but for trans people its probably worse.
Social dysphoria as a whole is a really hilarious concept to me that I can't really understand.
>>5302847
You're making everyone here seem like an ass. They were just asking questions so ease off.
>>5302847
Don't be cunt please
>>5302799
Also I'm just humoring you, obviously dysphoria means a lot of different things to anybody who has it.
People should just be allowed to reach whatever body they feel comfortable with if they work hard enough and to be honest some of the gatekeeping, like in the UK, ends up helping nobody since people that aren't actually trans would most likely stop hormones after a couple weeks to months.
>>5302801
Once you get out of the initial self-hate phase it get's a lot easier, for yourself and understanding how others feel, although ultimately you still need treatment.
>>5302858
i'd rather take non-quarterback arms over prominent arms just to display my strength thank you very much
also you can just get a gun if you want to be protected, muscles and strong male display are so 10,000 BCE
>>5302698
I mean mental illness and foolishness are kinda synonymous with another. There have been plenty of posters like you; MtF and FtM who have trouble seeing what the other does. Truth be told I'm a cis male and I'm not even really sure why you want to be a man, which in turn means my own empathetic abilities are lacking. What is it about being a guy that seems great?
>>5302897
>tfw yurokek and not allowed to have murrican gun freedom
I agree on the quarterback arms but retaining at least some strength is useful, which is something a lot of mtfs don't seem to do, and it's not like your muscles won't shrink a lot just by being on hrt by itself.
>>5302858
I know some trans folks are cool with the parts they were born with, it was just a lot easier to edit OP's post and still make my point rather than type out a paragraph
>>5302922
>yurokek and not allowed to have murrican gun freedom
same actually
personally i do cardio a lot and legs exercises so if i ever got involved with the wrong crowd i should have enough strength in my legs to be able to run away from them
but then again i don't need to because i don't go out at night and i am basically a NEET and i am sure there is no danger lurking in my safe bubble
>>5302156
>crossdressing kaworu
>not shinji
trash
>>5302284
what about ones who want to be/wish they were the big stronk men who just want to fuck other dudes?
>>5302960
The physical strength, not the muscles themselves, is just something I've always liked about being a guy and myself possessing it. It's not really about being able to defend myself, although that is useful - learning martial arts is definitely superior, but more about not having to rely on or even expecting others to do certain things for me.
I don't think it's possible to look very manly muscle wise after a long time on hrt, even if you work out a lot, just because you should have even less T than any cis woman.
>>5302847
>>5302814
I'm sorry.
>>5302858
I don't get it either. It's just hard for me to understand, I don't get anything other than that... maybe it's because my dysphoria is so off the charts that I can't understand why anyone else would /not/ want to be a boy? But that just points to me being self centered like that other person said, which makes me feel like a jerk. And I don't want to be a jerk.
I'll definitely be paying a visit to /fit/ though, thanks! And hopefully getting me some dandy ol' T will help. I really wanna hop on it as soon as I can. The thought of growing old as a chick is so filthy to me that I feel gross typing it.
>>5302886
>getting out of the initial self-hate phase
>speaking like it's possible
I've got myself convinced I'm human garbage to the point that I don't even feel deserving of the life sustaining oxygen that enters my lungs, so that's kinda far off.
>>5302903
Just the whole package I guess? It's hard putting it in words.
Would be really nice to get to grow facial hair, and see myself in a body I don't despise. I want a dick so I can do all that junk like standing to piss, getting morning wood, and even lewds with my boyfriend. I want to sit with my legs open without getting weird looks, speak with a deep voice, use men's restrooms, have a flatter chest and more square jawline. Most of all, I just. I want to be referred to as sir. I want my mom to introduce me as her son, and I want to be known as my male name. The standard every day transgender stuff I guess. Mleh
Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be a post where I just sit down and feel sorry for myself for the next couple years, ha ha...
>>5302622
>Tbqh I don't really understand people that transition primarily for social/lifestyle reasons
Tbqh I don't understand people that transition because solely because of body dysphoria when taking hrt really doesn't do much at all to change your body especially if you're going from male to female and start after puberty so it seems kinda redundant. If you can't change your body enough to the opposite gender to match up with how you feel mentally then the body dysphoria will not go away. If some trans people are satisfied with the very little feminizing effects of hrt then I'm guessing having body dysphoria or at least the degree to which one has body dysphoria is highly exaggerated among trans people. Consider all the trans people especially those that are old who walk around looking like men in women's clothing who say hrt helped get rid of their gender/body dysphoria despite literally no changes in their physically body.
>>5303133
You make a good point, supposedly hrt has some kind of mental effect of trans people that makes them feel better so maybe it makes them think their body changed too?
>>5303057
It's hard to care a lot for others problems when you only have so much energy to spend and all of it should go first and foremost into selfcare and building yourself a new self-image.
You really shouldn't feel too bad about it, especially since you seem to like your own thoughts going that way as well. Once you feel more comfortable with yourself it gets a lot easier to sympathize with others. I think this is a phase that almost everybody goes trough.
I find that doing anything towards transitioning already helps a lot with temporary dysphoria, of course you will most likely have a couple breakdowns but everything in between won't even be half as bad. I'm mtf so I can't really tell you about things that ftms can do prior to transitioning but voice/speech training is always a sure bet.
>>5303133
What I said was overblown but all I was saying that I can't quite (similar to OP) empathise with people who are primarily experiencing social dysphoria; of which I have nearly none except regarding intimate relationships where I am uncomfortable having to assume the classical male role in such over an extended period of time.
I agree with most of what you said but regarding older transitioners most of them have probably come to terms with that they will never see their body change a lot and just hormones by themselves can have a positive effect to alleviate dysphoria.
Actually most people should take after their example since they don't really care about what society at large thinks about them anymore and are just working towards making themselves feel better in a non-narcisstic way.
>>5303176
So you don't want to socially be female?
That's kinda weird, are you sure you're really trans because being a woman is not just about having a woman's body nor is it all about social aspects, it's a fine balance of the two. You basically want to be a boy with tits. That's like gender queer fuckery or something idk.
>most old transitioners have come to terms with their body looking masculine.
That's not how body dysphoria works though, if everybody could come to terms with it then you wouldn't need to physically transition at all. It really makes you wonder.
>>5303057
it's not a matter of being self-centred; you just have problems that are overwhelming, so trying to understand others with different problems isn't easy. i felt the same way before transitioning, but it goes away once you start to feel more comfortable. don't get upset about it
>>5303222
>you just have problems that are overwhelming, so trying to understand others with different problems isn't easy
but the problems of mtf and ftm aren't so different from each other. I've always been able to sympathize with ftms.
>>5303209
>So you don't want to socially be female?
Maybe they can't, have you thought of that? It's near impossible to socialize as a woman if you are a 6 foot megahon with James Earl Jones voice.
>>5303057
You got nothing to apologize for dude. When I called you self centered, I didn't mean it as in you're a jerk or a bad person. I meant it in it's most literal form; your thoughts are focused on yourself to a degree that you have trouble seeing things from anothers perspective. You are the center of your thoughts. Talking this stuff out is how we expand our perspective and learn how other people think. You're not garbage, you're just learning. The fact that you're coming here and asking these questions means you're taking important steps to grow as a human. And don't be afraid to stand your ground. You don't need to apologize to people on 4chan.
>>5303209
I don't really care about it is more like it.
I guess I really fall out of place because I have a lot of physical dysphoria but socially I have always been allowed to just be myself. I don't exactly fall into stereotypically male or female behaviors for the most part and I don't want to force myself to be something I am not. Socially, I will never be able to completely make up for my male upbringing, which had it's good sides too.
Of course getting recognized as female feels good but it's not something I actively desire as much as the physical changes which getting gendered correctly implies. All the mannerisms and the like I picked up anyway because logically I know that they are important and I make use of of them if they don't feel awkward, some of them I was already using unconsciously.
Obviously being a man/woman is more about just having the body but I'm very flexible regarding the mental/social aspects and I can do both almost equally as good nor does either of them exactly feel wrong. I know this is very tumblr-y but I can't really change how I feel about that. I actually do everything I can to avoid the man-in-a-dress symptom since it's a great source of anxiety for me.
Regarding oder transitioners: As long as they feel comfortable with themselves there isn't much to wonder. Maybe wearing a dress and makeup is enough for them. Maybe some others need srs and breast augmentation. Maybe some others just want to be treated as women and that's all there is to it for them. I don't think they are any less valid than other trans people.
>>5303243
I've been very genetically blessed so I pass to normies that don't know what they would have to look for and even if somebody knows it's very ambiguous. I just give 0 shits about gender roles and what strangers think of me.
I'm a social chameleon and it never bothered me to act a certain way, be it male or female. For me almost everything is just an act since I only show my true self to my closest friends.
>>5302858
>so you don't end up looking like a turbodyke or a femboy
Bet op could pass as one if they went skelly mode. Not like a lot of femboys haven't admitted to taking estrogen and stuff for their own totally not trans reasons.
Bet half of them have more in the way of tits.
>>5303753
but it's only transbian looking trannies that are saying it
>>5303000
All the Shinji in girl clothes stuff happens to be depressing, that artist's included. Karl just did the look like a girl while fucking Shinji for kicks so it's fun.
>>5302093
Sauce?
>>5302168
>I just can't see anything appealing at all about being a girl, my mind literally cannot fall on any redeeming parts of female life.
Massively easier and less demanding? Are you still here OP?
