Just found out my favourite gay club has become politicised. Fuck that liberal shit
>>5279308
>recent gay club ended fun drag nights
>replaced with trans awareness night
>where hons just have the stage to talk about hon shit
>>5279529
That sucks. Not sure if you're from UK but if I walked into that club in my picture with a conservative flag I'd be torn to shreds
I'm sure you'll just complacently back down as the social liberal collective consumes yet another one of your establishments in society.
Who among you will find the strength within yourself to stand against those who would take your home from you?
Let Papa Picard rouse your spirit
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Jln3mi0vfJU?autoplay=1&FORM=VIRE2&PC=SMSM
come to Glitterbomb in Canterbury instead
>>5279308
What the fuck do you expect?
Conservative politics show nothing but antipathy and scorn for LGBT people and lo and behold those people turn to liberal ideology and then you seem surprised by this?
If you want sympathy for your garbage politics go someplace else.
>>5282280
Bitch it's a gay bar not C-SPAN. It's supposed to be fun. Trans awareness had to be an idea to force people to drink more to cope with the boredom.
>>5282280
>>5279308
please tell me this isnt in my state
why do they have our flag
>>5282280
I never actually stated that I was a conservative supporter. I merely stated a "conservative flag" as an example of a hypothetical situation. The fact you assume I'm right wing because I'm against politics being inside a gay club just shows what a fucking intolerant bigot you really are, along with many other gay-liberal fucktards
>>5285281
>The fact you assume I'm right wing because I'm against politics being inside a gay club just shows what a fucking intolerant bigot you really are
>you correctly called be out for being a shit human being, and that somehow makes you the bad guy hurr durr
Bigotry is hating someone for the uncontrollable factors of their birth, hating someone because they have a shitty belief system is just called critical thinking
>>5285324
What if it's cultural liberalism that's actually the shitty belief system?
>>5285337
You're free to believe that if you want to, but know that the community you are a part of like it or not (lgbt) is at odds with your chosen political ideologies so you will always be an outsider in the lgbt community, and you have no right to complain about that outsider status. You're making a choice
>>5285385
Funny how most gays shout and scream when the wider straight community make them feel like outsiders but somehow to them it's ok to exclude gay people who share their so-called liberal views
>>5285614
*who DON'T share their so-called liberal views
>>5285385
No seriously though, why do you believe that your liberal values are objectively correct and that anyone who doesn't believe in them is an asshole?
>>5279308
fuck the EU
>>5285614
Again, hating and excluding people because of things they can't control like sexuality, gender, race, etc etc is bad. Hating and excluding people because of things they choose to believe is fine. That's why it's not ok to refuse service to a black guy for no reason, but no one would fault you if you kicked a neo-nazi out of your store. It's all about the voluntary vs involuntary
>>5285758
Because that's how politics works. I have a whole bunch of reasons for believing what I do, and I'm sure you have reasons to believe what you do. I've heard the arguments from all sides and I picked the one that most closely aligns with how I live my life and what my ideal world would look like. I'm sure you did the same, so I'm not gonna convince you to change your mind, so that's a pointless exercise, so the only thing that matters sense is to punish opposing ideologies wherever possible to lessen they're numbers or resolve. It's basic social evolution
>>5279308
Don't lie. You are a kissless virgin trying to pretend you are a normie.
Surprised Oxford even has a gay scene.
>>5285913
You think you social liberalism is going to survive this political evolutionary war?
>>5285913
>so the only thing that matters sense is to punish opposing ideologies wherever possible
Jesus I hope this fag is 12. I'm liberal and still... Jesuschrist.
>go to gay club
>80% women and guys who are after these women
FUCK OFF
>>5286380
I don't actually consider myself a liberal. Liberals are mostly well meaning, but largely uninformed and ineffectual. I personally identify as an anarcho-marxist but that's really a whole different discussion. To answer your question, no I don't think they'll survive, but we have more overlap right now that I do with conservatives so I prefer they continue to gain short-term victories
>le 'conservatives hate us' meme
It's not like they chase you out and round you up or anything, so what are you even complaining about? Meanwhile, it's liberals that try to force you to come 'out' even if you don't want to.
>>5286467
>anarcho-marxist
>anarcho
sure bud
>>5286493
They actively try to pass legislation blocking lgbt from federal programs, to stop lgbt couples from adopting, they fight marriage equality tooth and nail until even after the supreme court told them to fuck off. It's not that they're spooky bogeymen of physical violence, it's a pervasive anti-lgbt attitude, usually wrapped in religious symbolism, and used to legally fuck us over
>>5286467
>anarcho-marxist
Sure thing buddy.
>>5286498
Actually marx never supported Lenin-style vanguardist politics. Marx saw the state as a necessary evil to be done with as soon as possible and saw the potentials for abuse inherent in even the most egalitarian forms of the state. Anarchist theory at the time lacked the same deep understanding of capital or a model for post-capitalism, so an anarcho-marxist is one who accepts the economic philosophy of marx but rejects the use of the state as a tool. It's pretty simple stuff, and likely a conclusion Marx himself would have reached if he didn't hate Bakunin so much
>>5286583
Accepting all of Marx's economic analysis is a huge, unnecessary burden (plus Proudhon really came up with a good chunk of it first anyway). Arguing over the LTV is a waste of time.
>>5286583
i've met very very few so called leftist anarchists who didn't believe in some kind of coercive collective to force people to follow their rules
>>5285893
You do know that not all right-wing people hate gays. Personally I believe in less taxation, end of green energy, end wind farms and leave the EU. That doesn't mean I hate gay people, I am one for goodness sake. However if I were to identify with a right wing party that happens to believe in what I believe, people would just label me a racist, sexist, homophobe. A bit like how some people assume all black guys were criminals or all jews were money grabbers. And yes my views are voluntary but that's no excuse to cast someone as an outsider because my views hurt your precious feelings
>>5286632
this this this this
>>5286632
Not the marxist dude, but this whole picture is retarded because individualist anarchism IS left-wing (Tucker and other 1800s American anarchists). It'd be more valid if you criticized strictly social anarchism like anarcho-communism, anarcho-syndicalism, etc.
>>5286651
>tucker and others
spooner could be argued was a right wing or centrist anarchist, as he didn't believe in usury being a crime, believed in natural right of contract and competed with the US postal service
Stirner was also not left wing
nor is calling anarcho-capitalism "individualist" incorrect either
all you really have is tucker lol
>>5286677
>mutualism isn't left-wing
Market socialism in an anarchist society is left wing while not being social anarchism.
>>5286689
i didn't say mutualism wasn't left wing
hence tucker, although he later became way more of a stirnerite nihilist
>>5286697
Well then the whole picture is obviously invalid. Go remake it and make it inaccurate instead of just blindly throwing all left libertarians under the bus.
>>5286710
>inaccurate
accurate*
>>5286710
mutualists are a tiny minority among you retards
>>5286067
Ah yes a typical left-wing trait, resort to jibes and remarks to someone you've never met, rather than actually arguing the point I'm making.
>>5286632
You use the word "force" very liberally. A collective with shared values and ideals refusing to work with people who don't share those values isn't force, it's voluntary association
>>5286718
Show me some actual statistics on the relative amount of mutualists in comparison to other left libertarians. Otherwise, you have no idea. Regardless, that doesn't stop the graphic from being incorrect.
>>5286734
i've never seen a mutualist demonstration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF4ftIeRH08
>>5286648
It has nothing to do with my feelings, out has to do with your properties. You may endorse conservative politics for x y and z reasons, but if the conservative party overwhelming fights against gay rights and you voice support and vote for that party then you are hurting the lgbt community, whether you want to or not, and that's why you don't deserve to be a part of our community, because you are a traitor because you prioritize other political issues over the well-being of other lgbt people
>>5286757
Yep another left wing trait, join our cause or we'll brand you a traiter, how very libertarian of you.
The conservative party also introduced gay marriage
>>5286677
>anarcho-capitalism
Oh god, this discussion has officially turned to garbage, abandon thread
>>5286782
I ignored that part in my reply for a reason. You bringing it up means that you actually want to discuss it.
>>5286757
Speaking of which why don't you make gays who you deem as traitors wear hats with the star of david while you're at it
>>5286793
Anarcho-capitalism is contradictory to anyone who thinks about it for a couple seconds, but Americans still cling to it.
>>5286757
you really don't have friends IRL do you
>>5286799
>no state
>private property
where's the contradiction?
>>5286793
Debate is futile, it almost never leads to either side changing their mind. I think the debate between the working class and capitalists is much better served with blood and fire
>>5286803
>private property
Duh. But you don't understand what this means.
>>5286809
>with blood and fire
>he thinks he's an anarchist
>>5286794
Cause you don't need to out yourself if you don't want to. If you want to pretend to be a decent human being with the rest of us feel free, but the second you start talking about your politics don't be surprised when people start to pull away
>>5286813
there's a lot of non answers here and no actual explanation of your position beyond, "you're wrong"
comes off as you not knowing what the fuck you're talking about yourself, to be honest family
>>5286826
Private property means absentee ownership of the means of production which leads to wage labor which leads to hierarchy AKA not anarchism.
>>5286820
FFS This whole topic is about being able to go to gay club, to get away from the shit politics brings, I don't base my lifestyle around my political opinions. However, I think gay clubs were good at bring gay people together, however people bringing political flags seems to do the opposite. And there you go again, apparently I'm know not a decent human being just because of my political views. You are the one who's incredibly here.
>>5286816
There have been violent anarchist revolutions, the Spanish civil war, Nestor Makhno, etc. Thinking a complete shift in the super structure of society is possible without violence is completely foolish and ignorant of history. We kill the capitalists and then we restructure society on the infrastructure they built
>>5286839
since no one is equal to a single other person, even twins, how is there not natural hierarchy that can't be removed
how much of this inequality is permissible and when do you draw the line that it isn't
also i'm pretty sure anarchism merely means lack of a centralized state with coercive powers. I don't claim that anarchy only means a social order of private property, yet leftists only seem to think their desired social order is proper anarchy
>>5286853
*now...
>>5286862
I'm not arguing for the kind of equality you are thinking of. The existence of wage labor means unequal opportunity for people.
>>5286857
Makhno i believe didn't go around killing "capitalists", he was supported voluntarily by peasants, including kulaks
capitalists are not the state, if you kill them you are a murderer and deserve to be shot
the red terror ending was one of the few good things Franco did
>>5286870
no one in the world has unequal opportunity
why should they? the family is the largest source of inequality in history because different parenting styles produce different outcomes
>>5286857
That's true, but there's a pretty obvious slippery slope there. I do think being a "pure" anarchist is largely pointless though.
>>5286876
*equal opportunity
>>5286876
In our society, the amount of money is by far the largest determiner of what class you'll end up in. Nobody can reasonably remove inequality associated with shitty parents, but wage labor is not necessary for society and its undesirable for the majority of the population.
>>5286889
if its undesirable, then stop doing it?
>>5286809
>tfw provide goods/services that people choose to buy
>tfw employ people at a good wage, all parties have free choice
>tfw this guy wants to kill you
>>5286894
Because people obviously don't have a choice. You'd think right libertarians of all people would know this.
>>5286903
neither of us have a choice to secede and form our own societies
however, workers co-ops are 100% legal
>>5286911
Sure but the people who actually have the resources to make one would rather make more money by making a traditional firm instead. Can't really blame them, so everyone else gets stuck doing wage labor.
>>5286918
our working class is basically the richest in the world, are you saying 100-200 of you can't come together to get enough to start up a company?
>>5286938
Depends on the company, but in most cases that probably wouldn't be enough resources. Especially not for a co-op which is probably not going to be as profitable. I mean some things like credit unions exist, but it's pretty unfeasible in most cases.
>>5279529
That's retarded. No one besides hons and 2pretentious4you cis straights want to hear that shit in a club, and I say that as a trans girl. Go take that shit to a library or hon support group or something.
>>5286895
>good wage
By whose standard? Because as far as I'm concerned a "good wage" is the entirety of the value I put in to the product minus the overhead. Profit is a polite word for wage theft
>>5282280
I'm surprised, and have been for a while, that "liberal" politics in the last ~5 years are significantly, significantly more authoritarian than any conservative politics.
Remember when cons were the nut cases that wanted to lock and/or lynch people for saying what they didn't like and liberals were the daredevils protesting free speech and freer society? When the hell did that switch completely around?
>>5286965
the New Left died off
we New New Left now, bitch
where my safe space at
>>5286975
>where my safe space at
There was a good article somewhere, I think on the Atlantic, of how these nutcases use safe space not as a shield against criticism (which in itself is pretty terrible and leads to Yale students yelling "COLLEGES AREN'T FOR INTELLECTUAL DEBATE" at their professors) but as a sword to push unto other people and to attack other people with, as demonstrated by the literally (and I mean literally) University of Missouri tumblr protest and the doublespeak there ("don't push me" said as they're pushing the reporter; "you're intimidating me" yelled by a member of what might as well be lynch mob in the face of the reporter)
>>5279308
Middle class white people.
Gotta love 'em.
>>5286720
>implying I'm not a kissless virgin autist who shitposts online for a living and pretends to be social and goes on clubs
>ISHIGGERTYDIGERTYDO!
You took the bait.
>>5282314
And how is this supposed to be relevant to modern politics? The two parties pretty much switched places in terms of race like in the 1960s. 19th century politics isn't really that relevant since you can't vote for 19th century candidates.
>>5285281
It's not an assumption, and it doesn't show intolerance at all. You literally posted "fuck that LIBERAL shit" in the OP. You wouldn't have posted that if you were ONLY upset about it becoming political.
>>5287218
>switched places in terms of race
yeah in 1968 the republican party ran on a platform of reimplementing Jim Crow
are you fucking insane?
>>5285337
Then one would need to make an argument to demonstrate WHY. Also, what is this "cultural" liberalism? Sounds like a rehash of that old "cultural marxist" meme.
>>5287228
>Also, what is this "cultural" liberalism? Sounds like a rehash of that old "cultural marxist" meme.
Wait don't answer. I don't need to know WTF I'm talking about. My faith is all the knowledge I need! Herpa derpa maymay!
>>5286493
Uh, when have liberals done this?
>>5286498
>>5286567
Technically, the end goal of theoretical Marxism could be considered anarchist.
>>5286632
Personally I think the idea of eliminating violent coercion by the state is silly, since it just leaves an opening for individuals to engage in violent coercion and thereby become the new state. But I certainly wouldn't classify views like mine as anarchist.
>>5286648
>end of green energy, end wind farms
Just curious, what exactly is your reasoning here? I mean I could understanding ending subsidies if you consider them wasteful, but your phrasing makes it sounds like you want to end these things, not just eliminate subsidies.
>>5286757
>The conservative party also introduced gay marriage
In what country?
>>5286803
Who would enforce property rights? What's to stop me from taking my neighbor's properties by force? The only way to stop me from using force is to use force against me - and at that point we're back to having a state.
>>5286961
>Profit is a polite word for wage theft
I'd have to disagree here, insofar as the workers alone do not lead to production, there has to be someone to organize a business and handle planning and stuff, and profit is their compensation for it (otherwise the business owners have no incentive to do anything). And steady profits do allow a business to expand and pay its workers more. But excessive profits that AREN'T reinvested into labor or capital are definitely wasteful and a sign that someone's trying to cheat the system.
>>5287227
>yeah in 1968 the republican party ran on a platform of reimplementing Jim Crow
But that supports my claim of a reversal, why are you calling me insane? The Republicans were formerly the party that supported blacks (back in the 19th century), but then the Democrats switched from supporting wealthy southerners to supporting inner-city blacks, while Republicans became the party of big business and white trash. That's at least my recollection of what happened.
>>5287290
i severely doubt you were alive back then
the GOP has always been the party of big business, as was its predecessor the Whig Party. Protectionist, Puritanical, and Prohibitionist.
Democratic party was the "white trash" low income white party allied with Bourbon (pro free trade and anti protectionist) Democrats in the west and middle colonies
Rum (anti prohibitionist), Rome (accepting of catholics, jews, and other riffraff) and Rebellion (originally referring to the 1832 Tariff Crisis)
>>5287367
>i severely doubt you were alive back then
I'm not claiming I was, I read about this stuff several years ago.
>the GOP has always been the party of big business, as was its predecessor the Whig Party. Protectionist, Puritanical, and Prohibitionist.
Yeah that's something they've been consistent on, but it's a distinct issue from race.
>>5287389
this may surprise you but not wanted affirmative action don't necessarily make you anti black
>>5287397
I don't recall mentioning affirmative action, but regardless of whether it's racist or not it was obviously an attempt to appeal to minorities.
Just found out my favourite thread has become politicized. fuck that anarcho-communist shit.
I just found out that my favorite shitposters have become politicized. Fuck that polbait shit. Oh wait, nevermind, it's not political if it's the new right hugbox, I forgot.
>>5287223
It's been the liberals doing on infiltrating politics into many institutions. Examples include the BBC, schools, university etc... That's exactly what dictators do when they come to power. Yes, well done, I did say "fuck that liberal shit". I'm all for people having liberal views but this authoritarian approach of shoving their politics into the public sector institutions is what pisses a lot of people off. I suppose it would be fine if they let other people openly express their different views but liberals would only shout them down. So yeah, I believe politics of all kinds should be kept out of gay clubs because "liberal fucktards" don't wan't to spare any room for other opinions. To simply put it, all or nothing
>>5279308
I thought you meant like, a high school GSA club or something
you mean a fucking gay bar has become politicized?
how???
>>5286456
This.
Why do these people even come here?
Why is that allowed?
