It seems that many LGBT are very far-left who shout down at people who have different views to them and sympathize with other cultures who want to eradicate us. Why is this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udeXPBvPflE
stop posting this
I have nothing against people who disagree, but with trans issues in particular I'm starting to run out of patience with people who suggest trying same-sex HRT/drugs/therapy etc to treat dysphoria, despite those things already been tried and shown to not work. I don't mind if people are truly ignorant, but a lot of these times it's clear they're just trolling or saying we should stop doing what works because it makes them uncomfortable or something.
As for the "other cultures" thing, which mainly seems to be about Muslims, I have nothing against Muslims and I won't think less of a person for being Muslim, but I do realize that their culture is largely homophobic and I don't consider Muslims any "better" than white people either. When it comes to people I know on a personal level, I judge them based on what they actually believe as a person, rather than what members of their religion etc tend to believe.
>>5275981
That's very progressive of you
too bad you can't know every muslim on a personal level to judge whether they should be allowed into a country, which is precisely why this is becoming a bigger issue than ever
this is like the 7th thread this weekend asking if LGBTs support mudslimes, stop it.
She's kinda pretty.
>>5275989
What's wrong with talking about a pertinent issue that will have a major effect on the future of society?
>>5275988
Yeah and that's why I'm not exaclty in favor of large-scale mass immigration, because you really can't know which ones are "good muslims". And even if they are all "good muslims", having that many enter our society at once is going to be disruptive in any case.
>>5275981
yh gd point, it's a pity this page is filled with whining cunts
>>5275981
How have they been shown not to work?
>>5276008
The effectiveness in actually relieving dysphoria is less than that of transition (and they don't treat the underlying causes either). Same-sex HRT just makes dysphoria worse (because the brain can't be "changed back" after becoming masculine/femnine), while drugs and therapy are addressing the issue on an even shallower level than normal HRT is. Therapy is usually used as part of transition, but it's more to deal with the stress of transitioning than with the dysphoria itself.
>>5276018
How is it that they can objectively quantify and measure dysphoria and it's relief in subjects?
>>5276028
Based on the fact that people who go through the treatment are a lot less hindered by dysphoria than those who don't.
>>5276032
>a lot less hindered by dysphoria
Lol
>>5276032
But how are they measuring this dysphoria to begin with?
>how do you know they need treatment?
>because they have dysphoria
>how do you know they no longer have dysphoria?
>because they had treatment
the logic is totally circular. bravo, trannies.
>>5276045
This is blatantly incorrect. Evidence of dysphoria is not based on whether one recieves treatment; if one recieves treatment and the dysphoria is just as bad, then the treatment is ineffective.
>>5275998
we have talked about it. use the fucking catalog and there are multiple live threads for this topic. use the fucking catalog.
>>5276040
>>5276045
replace dysphoria in your sentences with depression and you'd have an argument that depression doesn't exist and there is no way to measure treatment for it.
Or go with the classic 'pain' and you'd have that chronic pain doesn't exist and there is no way to measure treatment for it.
Which is why we've developed ways for measuring internal distress of various sorts. Forms of questioning the individual, and testing for physical indicators of stress.
We can actually measure these things.
So there are treatments that have been shown effective for dysphoria, depression, and chronic pain.
>>5276028
Most mental illnesses in general can't be objectively quantified. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
>>5276055
Is the conversation over? Did everyone come to a concensus?
>>5276064
Pain and depression are felt by nearly every human being regardless of where they are in the world. This is not the case with dysphoria. It is irresponsible to look at the field of psychology as objective to begin with when it never has been, and yes many mental illnesses are indeed questionable at best, with some being outright fabrications.
>>5276065
It does for some, and this fact also leads to many people lying or developing a misconception of having mental disorders that they do not actually have
>>5276116
>You are now aware that many people do not regard "depression" as a real condition either.
That doesn't mean it's not real though. Opinion does not make fact.
>>5275942
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgQPbfWEp4
I am far-right OP
but totally in the minority in this respect
>>5276128
But feelings do make facts right?
>>5276142
You likely aren't as far right as you think.
>>5276144
No, facts exist on their own, but are revealed through the use of logic to manipulate other facts.
>>5275942
I for one support it OP
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f6d_1435932798
>>5275942
Both extremes are nutcases. I agree with some points on the right and some on the left but this means that both sides fucken shun and hate me because of it.
examples
genderqueer folk
extreme sjw attitude I cant fucken stand it and they get upset when I say I wanna be normal so they shun me.
super conservative cis person
"How can you be a woman? you are a man" because I was born with an intersex brain.
"no you are just a freak" ok cool.
>>5276028
>dr ask 'r u happy'
>'no'
>>5276212
How is it that they are able to detect an intersex brain in an individual?
>>5276116
well see thats the problem we have, isnt it? that a bunch of privileged morons with no adverse life experience are telling other people what their problems "really" are
>>5276237
What makes one privileged, and how do you define what a true adverse life experience is?
>>5276117
>Pain and depression are felt by nearly every human being regardless of where they are in the world. This is not the case with dysphoria.
except we can't tell if others are feeling what we are feeling.
We develop a means of talking about internal experience, we can use these means to talk about experiences even if we don't share them.
>It does for some, and this fact also leads to many people lying or developing a misconception of having mental disorders that they do not actually have
>lying
just because some people might be lying is a shitty reason for denying treatment for those who aren't.
If your objection to an internal sensation existing depends upon an the claim that everyone who says they have this internal sensation is lying, then we can't accept that objection or literally every internal sensation can be denied.
>>5275942
im mtf and hate shitskins and muslims in general
>>5276268
No, but a good reason is that there is no way to objectively measure dysphoria to draw the conclusion that these treatments have any effect on said dysphoria to begin with
>>5276246
not him, but the term 'privileged' is basically a really fucked up development of the idea that everyones history and experience biases the way they judge information.
Everyone has biases, but what those biases are differ. The use of the term 'privilege' for this was a really stupid development to turn this into a way to shame individuals who let their biases lead them into mistakes.
It was stupid, because it makes the accused get defensive and the accuser forget that they are just as capable of making mistakes from their biases.
>>5276233
>>5276281
no, but we have various ways of measuring distress, which we've used for things like anxiety, depression, pain, etc.
While we cannot share the specific feelings of dysphoria, we do know it is a form of psychological distress, or to put it another way it leads to other forms of distress we have a better understanding of.
So we can use our measurements of this distress as a proxy for a direct measurement of dysphoria.
Given that what we are attempting to measure is someones subjective experience, asking for an objective measure is wrongheaded. It not only impossible, it's a bad goal. Instead we develop ways of communicating ones subjective experience in ways that are consistent and informative.
>>5276296
Is this a regular test administered to all transgender people to determine the validity of their claim? To what individuals specifically do these brains belong to? Are there any other known factors that could influence the size and shape of these individuals brains? For example, is the brain scan of the male to female subject taken before or after they began hormone replacement therapy? Do they have a brain scan take before this individual began this therapy?
>>5276304
How do you determine what the cause of a particular psychological distress is?
>>5276323
questions, experimenting. Sometimes this is harder, sometimes it easier.
Dysphoria is actually one of the easier ones.
But by this point you've admitted that we can tell that there is distress and lack of distress. If transitioning in reducing the distress for this particular disorder, then we have an effective treatment for this particular disorder.
>>5276384
So how to you discern and quantify dysphoria within an individual?
>>5276384
Also, I'd appreciate if you showed me this study that shows transition reducing dysphoria
>>5276316
Treating transsexualism is a new issue in modern medicine and has had an extremely complicated social history. Basically the procedure currently is to see a therapist and they assess you for HRT. Brain scans are expensive and the symptoms of transsexualism can be seen through medical assessment alone. However I do believe that if society was more accepting then we would see more brain scans and we would essentially erase the trenders and queers that have been stagnating this intersex condition.
Also alot of transsexuals have minor physical conditions before they even start HRT. Like hormone imbalances which cause a prolonged puberty. Also Dysphoria is a recognized symptom.
Lastly the stria terminalis which is the part of the brain that is sexually dimorphic does not fully develop until near the end of puberty, so it is not a very good way to assess transsexualism until its to late. However since the brain is a very complex organ I believe that the stria terminalis develops a gender identity even before it shows physical signs of any difference. So If you are born MtF you will develop a female stria terminalis as you age into an adult no matter what you do because it was determined at birth.
Quite simply the brain is an extremely complicated organ but what we do understand so far is that transsexualism has a biological cause due to this.
>>5276402
What are the symptoms that can be seen in medical assessment, and what is the biological cause of transexualism?
>>5276415
I just told you what the cause was. The symptoms are based around dysphoria and how you feel about your body. If left untreated it will lead to mental disorders such as depression and anxiety and even suicide. It has been well recorded that individuals with extreme dysphoria suffer from the same symptoms and HRT shows to alleviate it while other cases like suppressive therapies and ECTs have only made the condition worsen. There are plenty of cases of trans people who have gone through these therapies that have led to suicide. The only therapy that has shown to work has been alleviating the root symptoms of dysphoria and that is fixing what the patient is feeling uncomfortable about. In this case it is looking and being seen/treated like a male.
>>5276443
Where wad this recorded, and who recorded it? Who were the subjects of this study
>>5276455
Every case of transsexualism where the patient goes and gets medical help. Doctors have concluded that transition is the best present medical technology to treat gender dysphoria.
>>5276103
he means dont make a new thread dipshit
>>5275942
Muslims are kinda in the same situation as the LGBT-community - a minority that's generally looked down upon or discriminated against. That's why we need to stand up for eachother.
>that fucking face
I bet this person calls himself a trap.
>tfw you can't even look for traps anymore because it's just all fags who wear womens clothing and people who took one dose of hormones
>>5275942
DAMN that guy is ugly as fuck. Passing -100%^23435
>>5276537
but why would you want to stand up for a culture that wants to destroy yours? You know muslims don't exactly love LGBT's right?
>>5275942
>different views
>other cultures
it seems you haven't thought through the point you wanted to make. why is this?
stop fear mongering you idiot
>>5277397
Leftists are the idiots for being inconsistent fucktards.
They harbor deep hatred for conservatives but think they are going to get along just fine with millions of refugees from countries where punishment for adultery is death.
>fear mongering
Fuck off. Liberals do this just as much, if not more. They make out like Trump getting elected will lead to a POC holocaust and daily shootouts in shopping malls.
>>5277329
>>5277336
the eyes are nice, shame about everything else though
I'm more threatened by Murricans
Dumbest people on Earth and universally hated for good reasons
I just feel bad for all people that go through suffering, it legitimately makes me depressed that a person could get to a point in their life where they think blowing them-self up in order to harm and/or kill others is a good enough idea to go through with.
>>5276537
>Muslims
>a minority
choose one
>>5278456
Muslims ARE a minority though, in both senses of the word.
>>5279299
Where? There are over a billion Muslims in the world. You don't need it explained to you that Islam isn't a race, right?
>>5279303
>there are over a billion Muslims in the world
>implying that prevents them from being a minority
>>5279310
Where? To who?
>>5279312
Those Muslims you met don't live by the theological doctrine of Islam.
>>5279318
Minority means a non-majority, i.e. something that most people are not. Over half the world would have to be Muslim for them to not be a minority.
>>5279322
You don't have to be a fundamentalist to follow a religion. If we go by your logic there would be almost no Christians in Europe or the US.
>>5279323
Who isn't a minority then?
>>5279330
Yes, that's correct. To be religious is a way of life, it's not just something you pick on a profile page. The vast majority of people who say they ate Christians do not live by the theology of Christianity and are not actually Christians. Just saying you are something doesn't make it so.
It is in fact only the fundamentalists that truly follow their religions
>>5279337
Straight people are an obvious example. As are non-disabled people. But with race it's usually more a regional thing.
>>5279370
So if these muslims aren't even muslims, how are they a problem again?
>>5279393
The extremist Muslim population is drawn from the moderate Muslim population.
>>5279415
The extremist human population is drawn from moderate humans. Honestly this is a really bad way to frame your issues with Islam, and I don't even like any of these fucking bullshit Abrahamic religions.
>>5279415
As are the extremists from any religion, but you don't blame all Christians for people like Breivik.
>oh but christianity is evil too!
Christianity doesn't produce terrorists in the magnitude that Islam does
Islam is not just a religion, it's an ideology that is to be applied to the society they inhabit
Yes they are both religions, yes they both have bad apples, but you have to be willfully ignorant to not see how they are fundamentally different
It is purely a coincidence that every country with a sizable muslim population is a complete and utter shithole. repent immediately and open your home to a refugee, shitlord.
>>5279528
Was not* I mean
>>5279521
It's not exactly a "coincidence", it's more that the Middle East is one of many areas that failed to develop early.
>>5279521
>every country
Oman
Indonesia
Jordan
UAE
Turkey
Each has their problems, but 'complete and utter shithole' isn't an accurate description of any of those
>>5279512
You forget that the Islamic terrorism is often a response to western aggression in the Middle East. It's not really so much about religion as about the west bombing and replacing their leaders with cruel dictators.
>>5279521
Before western intervention a lot of those countries weren't as bad. Iran, Afghanistan and others had a lot more freedom before the US replaced their leaders.
>>5279528
If you're referring to ISIS, the main victims of that organization are muslims. What do you think people are fleeing from?
>>5279557
Would never in a million years want to move to any of those shithole countries.
>>5279546
The Middle East was intellectually and culturally ravaged by Islam. It never recovered.
>>5279607
How do you reason Islam is the cause?
>>5279613
Because muslim countries were scientifically and culturally the most advanced until the religion underwent a reformation.
>>5279627
Weren't they advanced AFTER Islam became popular there?
>>5279607
Both Europe and the Middle East were ravaged by almost the same violent and extremist Abrahamic belief system, just at different periods of history. I find it obnoxious how we no longer have creative, out-of-the-box thought about spirituality or faith, we're all just pointing fingers at different sects of Abrahamism and going to war over the same god at this point.
>>5279588
The Islamic State is an Islamic organization and they are motivated by Allah, not by Western presence in the middle east. Secular minds can't seem to grasp this
>>5279664
Religion is merely used to motivate the average IS member who doesn't care about the politics. There's no such thing as a religious war, religion is just used as propaganda to support wars fought over geopolitical or economic reasons.
>>5279638
Islam itself wasn't the problem. The reformation destroyed the progressiveness of the region.
>>5279627
This. Muslims and Muslim apologists keep claiming that Islam is responsible for the Middle East's history of being the the cultural, scientific, and artistic capital of the world but almost non of it was done by Arabs who were Muslim. Hell, even today they try to take credit for crap they didn't do. When that ancient map of North America that the Chinese forgot they made surfaced a bunch of high ranking Muslim clergy started claiming that it was made by Muslim explorers.
>>5279557
I dunno, after watching The Act of Killing I'd never want to move to Indonesia
>>5279674
No, these people are truly spiritual, and this is a holy war. You're going to have to face this fact eventually
>>5279709
The individual IS members are doing it because they believe their god wills it, but the actual leadership is motivated by political reasons.
Regardless, people who are willing to kill because they think that's what their god wants should be considered mentally ill.
I generally consider myself left-wing but I'm so sick of this identity politics shit. I mean, ending slavery is good, women getting the vote is good, marriage equality is good, but those are clearly definable legal things. Seems like nowadays people have run out of good causes to fight for so they just argue over horseshit and get "offended" by everything.
Also while I don't believe in moral objectivism, moral relativism is just as stupid. There are clearly things that western democracies do better than most of the Middle East. Human rights and individual freedoms SHOULD be valued, and societies that don't value them should be criticized.
It especially disgusts me that certain so-called "progressive" groups now seem to despise the first amendment. To me it's not progressive to be anti-free speech, that's just full-on authoritarian.
>>5279683
>reformation
>they weren't Muslim
unless you're arguing that Islam before that reformation doesn't count as Islam, in which case you open up the ability for another reformation to create a new religion that wouldn't have the problem you ascribe to the current incarnation.
>>5279701
There have been death squads in western countries as well
>ib4 holocaust deniers show up.
>>5279709
they're doomsday cult, but it appeals to young people the same way christian, pagan, or alien worshiping doomsday cults do.
>>5279740
Obviously there have been western death squads, but Indonesia's case was monstrous. The fact that the same regime who ordered it is still in power (and still associating with the same paramilitary groups) is horrifying to me. At least Germany owned up to the Holocaust.
>>5275942
When did being politically correct become synonymous with being a self centred cunt?
120 people just got murdered by Muslim extremists and that freak still finds a way to be the victim.
>>5279683
They were muslims alright, but not the kind of muslims that dominated the religion after reformation hit.
>>5279720
No, the actual leadership are pious religious scholars
>>5279752
true, I was hesitant about including that one. Still not a shithole imho, but it's current government is a problem.
Still, a lot of people forget that there are muslim majority countries they don't have the problems that they hear about on the news all the time. Because there isn't the sort of turmoil that make them interesting for the news.
>>5279739
You understand that the Republican party was formed to end slavery, and that the Democratic party was staunchly for slavery right?
>>5279740
>unless you're arguing that Islam before that reformation doesn't count as Islam,
That's not at all what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that most of those inventors, artists, and philosophers did not worship Allah or get their religious information from the Quran. They were followers of one of the many other religions in the Middle East.
>>5275993
>she
>>5279790
and do you understand that the democratic party predates the civil war, and for a time was the only real political party in the USA (at the time it was called the Democratic-Republicans, but the second half was dropped) and thus included the anti-slavery politicians of the north.
And of course that both parties have gone through multiple major changes in voting base and policy choice in 100+ years since then.
>>5279809
then you are wrong. House of Wisdom in Baghdad was the center of most of the cultural and scientific developments associated with the Arab world, and during that time period the only religions allowed in the region were the Abrahamic faiths, and the overwhelming majority was Muslim, including the artists, scientists and philosophers.
>>5279813
What?
>>5279790
What does that have to do with how things are today?
>>5279832
>during that time period the only religions allowed in the region were the Abrahamic faiths, and the overwhelming majority was Muslim
Being the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't mean being the overwhelming majority of scientific and cultural contributors. Jews are a minority everywhere outside of Israel and they hold the majority of Nobel Prizes in science and African Americans are currently the biggest contributors of art in the US.
>>5279864
>doesn't even include the full sentence which states that this did include the scientists
Al-kindi
Alhazen
al-Khwarizmi
all muslim. The House of Wisdom was created by a muslim ruler, the majority of its members, and the greatest among them, were muslim.
Muslims did these thing.
>>5279842
Justin identifies as a non binary queer :^)
>>5279908
The Ottoman Empire also instituted slavery on a mass scale that the world up until that point had never seen before. They surpassed even Rome in their brutality
>>5279846
What does anything in the past have to do with how things are today?
This women really lays it down here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD65wnDGuTg
>>5279790
>he doesn't understand political shifts
>>5279975
In this case, not much. The parties of today have very little in common with how they are historically.
>>5279967
okay, but that doesn't disprove what I just said in any way, and wasn't even the same time period.
So what was your point?
>>5279913
Justin? I thought the picture was just supposed to be some random generic person.
>>5280019
The point is you're actively glorifying Islam while at the same time the Islamic State is actively waging a holy war against you because of your beliefs and the way you live your life. Yes, the Islamic State is truly Islam. It wasn't hijacked, they aren't confused about what Islam really is and it's not all just a front for political motivations.
Everyone can see your hypocrisy. You would never rush to the defence of Christianity if fundamentalist Christians did what the Islamic State is doing. You would never glorify the achievements of Christian Europe in the same context
>>5280083
no I was just disproving a single point what
>>5279809
was saying that the artistic and scientific development credited to Muslim culture was not done by Muslims. That was wrong, those developments were done by Muslims.
You might be confusing me with another anon.
As for your second paragraph, if you're responding back to >>5279740 where I was responding to a different argument, I stated it was a doomsday cult. Much like Christian doomsday cults. So I was treating Christianity and Islam the same.
>>5280118
When was the last time a Christian doomsday cult destroyed and occupied the lands of two nations?
>>5280128
The Crusades.
Capture the holy land to prepare the way for the return of Christ. The crusades were more cynically organized, but the appeal to the youth was similar.
Islam isn't unique in producing doomsday cults though, or even big ones. The Islamic state is a new sort of development, as it is existing in a new time, but to say it is characteristic of all Islam across all time and places is foolish and can lead to saying foolish things.
I'm not saying that the Islamic State isn't using a religious argument, or that it's members aren't Muslim. But I will say that there were Muslim scientists and major artistic and scientific works done by Muslims.
>>5280202
Gregor Mendell discovered alleses and genes but no one gives a shit about him
>>5280202
The Crusades were a response to Muslims invading and conquering large parts of southern Europe.
>>5279512
>you have to be willfully ignorant to not see how they are fundamentally different
Or simply not giving a fuck.
Why just fight one?
>>5280202
The Crusades were dwarfed in their size and scale even in the exact same time period to the brutality of the Islamic conquest of the Middle East. Islam has historically always been marked by extreme violence.
Hold on, I'm going to find this map of the middle east that shows the sites of battles in all of the crusades compared to the battles of the Islamic conquests. The Crusades were nothing in comparison
>>5280321
Because you're being obtuse and actively trying not to acknowledge that it's Islam specifically that's the issue at hand. You can fight Christianity if you want, but they'll ultimately turn the other cheek
>>5280348
>actively trying not to acknowledge that it's Islam specifically that's the issue at hand.
Oh I'm definitely willing to abide to the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" principle.
But that whole being friends thing doesn't last a second longer than the battle.
>they'll ultimately turn the other cheek
Like they have done so for the last 1500 years.
Sure
>>5275988
>too bad you can't know every muslim on a personal level to judge whether they should be allowed into a country, which is precisely why this is becoming a bigger issue than ever
There's actually a very innovative and sure fire way of knowing if you should let someone into the country willy nilly and it's already been tested by close to 200 countries
>were you born here?
>no
>well then you can't enter as this isn't your country.
And for anyone that still wants to get in there's the visa process (that doesn't require mastercard) where every single muslim will be examined and government officials can actually tell is he nutcase or not
>>5287031
This. Have yet to hear a single logical reason why we should be letting any muslims in at all.
>>5287031
This. Illegal immigration is called illegal for a reason, people in the past knew what problems can arise from mass immigration with no oversight or regulation. Too bad that knowledge got lost somewhere in the past 5-10 years in the europe and the default position is to let anyone in as long as they say they're from a shithole country.
>>5275942
>>5287056
>as they say they're from a shithole country.
Or, you know, just anyone at all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvmw45yp5Ug
And, while watching this, keep in mind that around 80% of immigrants are economic migrants that aren't from Syria and just want "better life" and that similar percentage of them is male and single.
>>5287099
Oh I know, I just mean the atmosphere is that as long as you're from a poor country or region you have the right to waltz right into any european nation and get an asylum.
The whole issue is that the shithole south euro countries like italy and greece didnt want to pay for the deportation alone which opened the floodgates for all of europe. Collective white mans guilt and social justice movements ruining a continent, hooray.
>>5277397
Oh fuck off you sensitive little cunt
>>5279756
Yep, so very true
>>5287056
>Too bad that knowledge got lost somewhere in the past 5-10 years in the europe and the default position is to let anyone in as long as they say they're from a shithole country.
Yeah its not like the west started bombing the shit out of their countries over 10 years ago so they are fleeing our bombs because they want to live somewhere safe. How the fuck you gonna speak about knowledge when you dumb as shit nigga?
>>5289318
"The west" is not an entity that has any collective military power nor responsibility to take care of foreigners. If you want to blame mmurikah for destabilizing the region then good for you, that's not a reason to drag sweden or germany down in some collective guilt orgy
>they are fleeing our bombs because they want to live somewhere safe
This is just factually incorrect, the most commonly asserted reason for the immigration flood is ISIS, whereas in reality most of the immigrants arent even from regions threatened by ISIS. The whole reason why they come to europe instead of neighboring countries with more similar lifestyles to their home countries is the higher standard of living europe offers compared to regressive islamic shitholes. The ones that aren't shitholes apply the 'not our citizen, not our problem' mentality at borders.
>>5279383
>tumblr
