http://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/11/10/why-i-no-longer-hate-terfs/
I just really started learning about radical feminism in the past year, but even before that, I saw this word "terf" a lot all over social media. For the first while, I did not even recognize it as acronym because it was only used as a generalized insult, thrown at anyone who didn't parrot what the other wanted to hear. As an example, this was my experience with it, seen as this blog compiles the use: http://terfisaslur.com/
The term Terf is problematic for many reasons. I am seeing teenagers use it with an alarming frequency with no knowledge of feminist issues, because they think it means they are being progressive and fighting on "the right side" by throwing slurs and insults at anyone who has an opinion that might deviate from a specific set of desires. It derails feminism and splinters it into territory that will help no one. Biological women become the enemy unless they tow the line, and men sit back either confused or laughing.
We see this manifest on a larger scale into the disturbing trend of silencing and no-platforming feminist speakers, or feminist analysis (labeled terfs).
I'm happy to have met a few trans women who are very articulate, bright and reasonable, but they are also alienated, shouted down, bullied and labeled ( with colourful made up terms).
>>5218674
Much like most women, I still want a world where everyone can live safely and be who they are. But it's becoming more and more difficult to ignore the utter craziness and misogyny coming from liberal "feminism" and trans-advocacy groups. I have personally been called a "Terf scum bigot" once because my concerns were not in line with the hive mind. There was an article on a Trans woman who had a full thick beard, took no hormones, and had no interest in transitioning. So by all accounts, this human looked like a grown man in a dress and make up, and just "identified" as a woman. I have ptsd from being sexually assaulted, and I said I would feel scared or nervous if this person walked into a women's shower room because by all accounts, my senses pick them up as male. Male = predator in certain female spaces.
But now I am a "transphobic cisexist terf" monster for a basic survival instinct, and that makes me irritated. I don't see trans men aiming hostility against men ( either straight or gay). I don't see them trying to silence them talking about their bodies. I don't see them trying to create petitions against them so they can't speak about topics in their field of expertise.
One year ago I was an avid ally of trans women. But the hostility of their advocacy has left me in a place of confusion. I can't help but note that the bulk of it is pretty misogynistic. I feel like they truly advocate for trans women alone, and have no interest in biological women's issues. I have no problems with this, but then I think radical feminism can focus on biological women's issues without being declared witches that must be hunted and killed.
>>5218674
>and men sit back either confused or laughing.
Actually, men have extremely clear feelings about trannies, which generally go like this:
1) No fucking way would I ever fuck a tranny
or
2) I have a fetish for that and I will objectify them in the worst and most demeaning way possible
There's no debate among men about this concept, it's literally one or the other. The "debate" only exists in the minds of the trannies who think they can argue their way into a relationship.
Yeah I don't mind identifying myself as a trans woman. In fact I think I owe it to the trans community to share my experience and not simply call myself a woman because I went through transition. I'm a trans woman, I haven't lived all my life as a woman and that affects my position in feminism.
However I also don't mind trans women who haven't gone through transition describing themselves as women because I know how nice it is just to be seen as a woman even though you haven't made any changes. But again, you're a trans woman. You should be honest about that.
The whole "bathroom rapists" thing seems kind of witch hunty and it's blaming trans advocates for something we 1. don't want to happen either and 2. find utterly despicable. Yet the pending blame is always placed on us. I say pending because this situation of a man describing himself as a woman just to spy on women in the bathroom has not happened yet. never. It has yet to happen. But the blame is placed on us and it's all the right will talk about now.
Why isn't a pervert just a pervert? Why are they a pervert because of trans rights? Why are the deplorable acts of one person being blamed on us just because that person used our movement for acceptance as a vehicle to be a fucking creep?
Link me to that article btw, I'm curious.
its not an either or. i can hate trannies and feminists.
>>5218679
>But now I am a "transphobic cisexist terf" monster for a basic survival instinct, and that makes me irritated. I don't see trans men aiming hostility against men ( either straight or gay). I don't see them trying to silence them talking about their bodies. I don't see them trying to create petitions against them so they can't speak about topics in their field of expertise.
god damn why do trans men get it so much fucking easier
>>5218674
>One year ago I was an avid ally of trans women. But the hostility of their advocacy has left me in a place of confusion. I can't help but note that the bulk of it is pretty misogynistic.
>Cis people are mean to me, so I have to hate on trans women
I bet this "woman", doesn't even realize TERF was made up by feminists.
>>5218674
>>5218674
Seen that on l-chat transphobe thread. Great thread btw. Now, I'm starting to really enjoy myself. Like, really.
As a transwoman, the current climate in trans activism creeps me out and disturbs me. I feel like trans people as a group are becoming massive, whiny narcissists. I personally think they're becoming this way to compensate for not getting the support they deserve. They never got real support growing up, so they compensate by becoming narcissists. I can understand and sympathize for sure, but it's going too far recently. I've seen transwoman do the WORST shit to people for being "transphobic." and there's all this made up cotton ceiling bullshit where apparently no can't mean no or you're transphobic. Holy fuck. To the community at large, I have to ask:
When did being trans turn from being about becoming comfortable in your body and lessening dysphoria to proving the validity of your identity to OTHER people?
I kind of understand how it happened. Being misgendered reminds me of my genitals and how wrong my body is and therefore makes me feel bad byproxy, but it seems like for a lot of other transwomen, the middle part has evolved out: now it's just DIRECTLY OFFENSIVE somehow, like their entire identity revolves around being seen as a woman by other people instead of having a female body, and that fucking mystifies me. It's gone from "oh, being misgendered reminded me of my penis, and now I'm sad" which makes perfect sense, to "being misgendered offended my social identity" which makes no fucking sense to me.
Like holy shit, a woman's shelter has the right to reject anyone they want, including us. Women who were raped have PTSD and will often fail to recover if there can't feel totally comfortable. If trans women make them feel uncomfortable, than trans people can't be allowed in or they may not recover properly. It's not about whether or not trans women are actually women, or even whether the women with PTSD that are afraid of transwomen are right, it's about making the women in the shelter FEEL safe even if it's bullshit.
>>5218674
>We see this manifest on a larger scale into the disturbing trend of silencing and no-platforming feminist speakers, or feminist analysis (labeled terfs).
If your feminism doesn't include trans women then you don't deserve a platform
Half of that article is bullshit oppression olympics nonsense. The author also doesn't know what a TERF is.
>>5218889
I don't know if you're copy pasting from the article or not... but...
>When did being trans turn from being about becoming comfortable in your body and lessening dysphoria to proving the validity of your identity to OTHER people?
Since the very beginning?
Aspies you like you may not understand social needs in people, but everyone except brain damaged freaks like you have social needs.
>Like holy shit, a woman's shelter has the right to reject anyone they want, including us.
I don't think so, no.
What kind of deluded world do you live in?
>If trans women make them feel uncomfortable, than trans people can't be allowed in or they may not recover properly.
OR, you could reject that transphobe from the start?
Cis womens needs aren't above trans womens needs.
>t's not about whether or not trans women are actually women, or even whether the women with PTSD that are afraid of transwomen are right, it's about making the women in the shelter FEEL safe even if it's bullshit.
Which includes trans women.
You can't throw out a trans woman because a cis woman is transphobic, she'll have to stop being transphobic if she wants help.
Otherwise, you could throw out all women who don't wear something to cover their hair, because a muslim woman is triggered by it.
>>5218889
And don't even get me fucking started on the cotton ceiling, holy shit. You're not entitled to have lesbians like you, holy fuck.
I feel like everyone other than me has gone completely fucking insane with needing to be treated EXACTLY LIKE WOMEN. I almost feel like, if some asshole took a room full of women hostage and said he was going to rape all the women, and a transwoman wasn't raped, she'd feel left out and discriminated against for not being raped.
When the fuck did being trans become about being "treated" like a female socially and not just about not wanting to kill yourself because you're the wrong sex?
>>5218889
>As a transwoman
Ok, thks.
>>5218934
>You can't throw out a trans woman because a cis woman is transphobic, she'll have to stop being transphobic if she wants help.
She's not being transphobic, she's being fucking psychotic because she was just raped and now has rape trauma syndrome. It's not about whether it's right or factually correct for her to feel that way, it's about treating her mental problems. She can't "stop it" because she's mentally disturbed, and regardless of the correctness of her fear, she will withdraw too much to be treated if there are transwomen there.
Why not just create shelters for transwomen? That fixes all of the problems.
Liberal in fighting, good, good
>>5218889
>Like holy shit, a woman's shelter has the right to reject anyone they want, including black women. Women who were raped have PTSD and will often fail to recover if there can't feel totally comfortable. If black people make them feel uncomfortable, than black women can't be allowed in or they may not recover properly. It's not about whether or not black women are actually women, or even whether the women with PTSD that are afraid of black people are right, it's about making the women in the shelter FEEL safe even if it's bullshit.
>>5218951
You don't send in psychotic people into a womens shelter. Are you fucking insane?
You send her to a "institution".
What do you plan to do when a lesbian women is triggered by other women, because she was raped by a woman?
Throw all the women in the shelter out, so you can care for her needs?
I don't think your intelligence is that of a human, though I guess a fair bit higher than that of most primate species... Maybe you are a new kind of species?
>>5218674
>problematic
>>5218951
What if she was raped by a Latino dude and now she's just irrationally terrified of Hispanics? Should the shelter turn away all Hispanic women who need a place to stay just to cater to the one white girl with racially based PTSD? (Spoilers: the correct answer is no)
>identity politics obsessed retards fighting over who is the most special Little snowflake
>>5218966
Except that yes you fucking do. Women's shelters more often than not have the function of treating and preventing rape trauma syndrome as a first line response.
>>5218984
>purposefully ignoring the rest of the post because you don't have an argument against it
>>5218951
Oh yeah, trans people totally have the political and financial resources to build a shelters specifically for them in major cities.
Here's a thought: If someone is unstable or delirious in your shelter, you should either isolate them and give them their own space or send them to a facility that can properly accommodate them. You don't need to kick out other people in need because one person is going nuts.
>>5218966
>What do you plan to do when a lesbian women is triggered by other women, because she was raped by a woman?
She doesn't go to a women's shelter. If she's afraid of women and goes to a shelter for women, that's retarded. That's on her.
>>5218984
No you don't. If they aren't stable enough to be in the general population, you don't put them in the general population.
Womens shelters is for women who have no where to live, and is escaping unlivable "home" situations.
>>5218995
>dumb bitch deserves it unless she's triggered by people I also don't like
Most radfems seem like either conservatives or transmen in denial
>>5218993
Except it's not one person. In my experience, a great deal of rape victims, perhaps a third or more, experience transient hypersensitive fear of men and masculine influences. You can't isolate all of them unless you segregate the entire shelter, and then we run the risk of getting separate but equal shenanigans. It's safer for trans women to have their own shelter that's dedicated to them than to be at the mercy of a woman's shelter that might not like them.
>>5219016
Or they could just not take in the women who don't want to be around trans women.
Transphobes can build their own shelters.
>>5219022
Transphobes DO build their own shelters. That's what we're talking about. Transphobe shelters have the right to reject us.
>>5219015
100% true, and autistic.
Not an excuse for lesbians and feminists who let them run wild for decades. It isn't just words. Those cunts are out there to get us.
>>5219032
I haven't heard of one.
They can't call them "womens shelter", they'd have to call them "transphobe shelter".
>>5219015
In my experience, radfems are NOT in denial about being transmen.They're not closeted transmen. They know they're transmen and admit it. They just believe transitioning is morally wrong.
>>5219016
> In my experience, a great deal of rape victims, perhaps a third or more
How very scientific and not just based on your feels.
You think there aren't just as many or more racists triggered by certain minorities?
Is it just fair that brown people make their own shelters?
>>5219016
>You can't isolate all of them unless you segregate the entire shelter, and then we run the risk of getting separate but equal shenanigans
>It's safer for trans women to have their own shelter that's dedicated to them
>separate but equal is bad
>but trans women should have separate but equal shelters
Wow...
>>5219048
And I don't mean to defend them. It's the same as "ex gay" people.
>>5219016
And I'm telling you it simply isn't feasible for the trans community to build a shelter specifically for transwomen in a major city. The best we could hope for is a LGBT shelter, but that's already a tall order.
>>5219061
Yes! It is bad, but it's bound to happen. Either they're separate bit equal within the shelter or they're separate but equal in their own shelters. Which do you think would respect transwomen more? I sure as hell know I don't want to be at the mercy of some possibly transphobic women's shelter.
>>5219061
No, don't you see? It's bad for REEL WOMYN to endure separate but equal conditions, subhuman freaks don't matter :^)
>>5219068
> The best we could hope for is a LGBT shelter
STOP INVADING CIS SPACES FREAKS
DROP THE T
>>5218674
>terf is a slur
>>5218674
>http://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/11/10/why-i-no-longer-hate-terfs/
There is so much stupid and strawmanning and other bullshit in this that I now feel dirty and down by a few IQ points.
> http://terfisaslur.com/
Oh hey, gotcha tweets! Those are really representative of the overwhelming majority of trans folks, amirite?
> Biological women become the enemy unless they tow the line
You mean cis women. You can't really say biological women in any way that doesn't end up excluding at least some cis women as result. Phys. sex traits, chromosomes, endocrinology, etc. all run into that issue.
And no, cis women aren't the enemy at all, just the particular cis women that want to treat us as some patriarchal conspiracy nuttery, screw us out of safety and medical care, and generally treat us like crap from behind a thin veil of ideological civility at best. Most of us likewise know that this is not the majority of cis women.
>disturbing trend of silencing and no-platforming feminist speakers, or feminist analysis
I'm fine with people espousing nonsensical and contradictory beliefs speaking, so long as nobody pays them just to show up and speak at neutral ground.
>I'm happy to have met a few trans women who are very articulate, bright and reasonable
I'm genuinely curious to hear more about this. What made these girls agreeable within your ideology enough to say such positive things?
> they are also alienated, shouted down, bullied and labeled
I'll be the first tranny to admit there being a problem between mere non-binary non-dysphorics and transsexuals (the whole T is a mess, yeah), but that doesn't sound like what you're actually getting at.
>>5219074
But I'm trans. I'm making this argument because I've been treated badly by shelters.
Think of it this way: if we made it illegal for shelters to refuse trans women, They'd just accept us and treat us like shit. It's better if they're allowed to say no, because now we know what shelters to avoid like the plague.
>>5219073
>Which do you think would respect transwomen more?
>transwomen
Not even trying to hide all that transphobia.
>>5219096
You're autistic, not trans.
Big difference.
>>5219099
... What? So we're not even transwomen now?
>>5219088
>LGBT shelter
>strictly a cis space
>>5219108
No, and we never were "transwomen".
>>5219121
What were we, then?
>>5219095
>representative of the overwhelming majority of trans folks
Nobody said that.
>cis women that want to treat us as some patriarchal conspiracy nuttery
Literally nobody, except if you fall prey to anti-feminists painting radfems like that.
Just saying.
>>5218995
And the same should apply to people who are afraid of trans women.
>>5219015
>>5219048
>radfems
>man haters!!!
>transmen in denial!!!
You people gotta make up your fucking mind.
>>5219144
They're too big of a minority for it to be that easy.
>>5219088
nice b8, /pol/
>>5218752
>>5218889
Are these pasta, or are there actually sensible people on /lgbt/ now?
>>5219124
Women, or if needed distinction, trans women.
>>5219096
Yeah, because being left to fend for yourself on the streets is much better than being treated poorly at a shelter that you have the OPTION of staying at. If a shelter treats you badly, then you know not to go there again. That's some baffling logic you got there, dude.
If every shelter had the right to turn you away, you wouldn't have anywhere to go and the mortality rate for trannies would go up even more.
>>5219124
trans women, as in women who are trans
>>5219160
I don't see a distinction. Trans is just a qualifier to me regardless of the space. I use transwomen like you use trans woman.
>>5219175
Then you're very illiterate.
Do you say blackwoman, and lesbianwomen too?
>>5219189
No, i just grew up in an Era and an area where unifying words was considered cool.
Uh I hate "trans activists" and crazy liberals and genderfaggots just as much as the next non-brainwashed mtf, but I will never support terfs or spend time entertaining their bullshit. They directly reduce the quality of my life, and thats all that matters. I hope I never meet one in person. I already avoid lesbians like the plague because they tend to associate with groups like this. I prefer to be around normal chill adults who don't spend 20 hours a week trolling on radical feminist message boards and discussing how women are oppressed because men find it gross when they grow their body hair out...
>>5219092
Yeah like racist.
>>5219230
>racist is a slur
>>5219096
>if we made it illegal for shelters to refuse trans women, They'd just accept us and treat us like shit. It's better if they're allowed to say no
Remove all discrimination protections!
>>5218889
Its what happens when you develop echo chambers like reddit where 1000s of young trannies spin their bullshit and convince themselves to become increasingly radical about how they define themselves and how they believe the world should cater to them. Also, narcissism is very common in trans people. Part of it is environmental, when everyone hates or is disgusted by your existence you start to feel a strong current of "well then fuck everyone, I am going to try to get mine" and then it just spirals out of control from there until you are reporting people to HR for misgendering you and trying to force cis women to be comfortable with you in the women's lockerroom even though you look like a MAN. This is why being openly trans is a miserable existence, because you are associated with all the delusional narcissists. And this isn't even getting into all the legitmately mentally ill inidividuals who latch onto trans identities due to their unstable mental health. Those are by the worst types of people.
L Anon is that way ->
pls go
>>5219128
>Literally nobody, except if you fall prey to anti-feminists painting radfems like that
No that's literally what the major mouth pieces of the radfem/gender critical/TERF community, like Cathy Brennan say. If you don't believe me take a look at any of her websites where she literally calls all trans girls men, and accused them off trying to invade female spaces and appropriate femininity
http://pretendbians.com/
http://genderidentitywatch.com/
http://genderfatigue.com/
Etc etc
>>5219240
Honestly, I'm not sure I disagree for NON EMPLOYMENT discrimination laws. I don't want my food jizzed in because a restaurant isn't allowed to kick me out.
>>5219234
Yeah all these liberal sjw shitlords calling me a racist terf just because I hate niggers and trannies, they're just trying to silence my opinions and force me to toe the line of their hivemind!
>>5219230
terf isn't a slur you shit eating worm
>>5218939
For a lot of people, dysphoria is caused by how they're treated socially.
>>5219152
Not true, and even if it was, again, we don't base non-discrimination policy on the irrational fears of the few regardless of the particular situation
>>5219263
I'm just using the same logic, if they FORCE places to hire trannies or let them in housing then they'll just treat you like shit anyway, just make your own tranny jobs and housing.
>>5219146
They are autistic though. Thats why they get obsessed with "the trans issue" and spend hours each day on the internet writing messages about it and scouring the internet for articles to talk about. Its a classic autistic behavior to get obsessed with a topic that normal people spend 30 seconds of their lives on "huh chicks with dicks, weird, thats kind of gay I guess" and then move on. Because they aren't autistic and obsessed with the topic and "winning" some imaginary war. This SAME behavior is seen in the autistic trans activists that become obsessed with countering terfs "stuff" (idk like their forums or something, I don't even know).
>>5219128
>Nobody said that.
Then why bother putting it in the OP as though it matters? It was posted in reference to the sorts of crazy trannies OP claims to have encountered. Every demographic has dumbfucks and loons, especially online, so it's meaningless to bring up such anomalies as anecdotes do not make for good evidence of a larger trend.
Now if the OP had specifically said something more like "the trans people that act like those in that link concern me, the majority of trans people are not like that" it would've made more sense, since those would be our own loonies which most of us already bemoan.
>Literally nobody, except if you fall prey to anti-feminists painting radfems like that.
...really? Alright, I'll bite.
Janice Raymond, author of "The Transsexual Empire", a book literally including just that. Admittedly, even I would say the majority of TERFs (don't quibble, I'm using it as a convenient term, because "gender critical feminist" is too damned vague and long, and not all radfems are trans-exclusionary) don't hold to that specific interpretation, so a minority within a minority. You'll notice that I included other things after that, thus meaning that conspiracy wasn't the only issue, as I wasn't talking about causes but rather effects.
Still, I do want to hear you correct me here. Pitch it to me. What is the legit official TERF position here thus us saner trans folk are supposed to not find reason to have issues with?
>>5219284
>just make your own tranny jobs and housing.
How exactly are you supposed to do that? It's better to have the OPTION of having a job or place to live where you're treated like shit, than to have no option at all.
>>5219297
this. i mean terfs say stupid shit like 'why dont you complain to the menz theyre the ones out there gaybashing you lol', which isn't un-true but it's missing the fucking point. it's not random gaybashers on the internet doxing trannies and generally being insufferable cunts and spamming trans spaces, it's a bunch of autistic feminists who can't fucking chill the fuck out. most normal people barely give any thought to the trans issue because it's just not that fucking important in the big scheme to anyone but trannies and tinfoil wearing terfs with their shitty conspiracies. they literally believe trannies, a minority that makes up, at best, 1% of the world population make up the majority of bathroom assaults and are an insidious patriarchal plot to take over lesbians Invasion of the Body Snatchers style. i would take them about as seriously as David Icke groupies if not for the fact that they're going out of their way to make my life shit by working with conservatives to make people believe their crap, which DOES put me in danger from random assholes who previously couldn't give a shit about trans anything.
>>5219146
>Implying it doesn't fit perfectly.
You're cis, right?
>>5219359
>working with conservatives
No, actually. trans-exclusionary feminists are usually hard left and believe that trans women are the conservatives.
>>5219390
that hasn't stopped them from working with conservatives
you can keep repeating that but it doesnt stop it from being a lie
at best theyre a bunch of New Left shitstains who are obsessed with muh free speech and barely understand Marxism outside of how they can use it to hate on trannies
>>5219390
History and reality disagree with you. They teamed up to get trans insurance coverage removed.
The enemy of my enemy and all that.
>>5219439
are u about to segway my feels post into saying that terfs hate trannies because theyre cuter or something
cmon now thats just silly
>There was an article on a Trans woman who had a full thick beard, took no hormones, and had no interest in transitioning. So by all accounts, this human looked like a grown man in a dress and make up, and just "identified" as a woman.
She realizes that most legit trans people hate these types too right? What an idiot.
>>5219359
> going out of their way to make my life shit by working with conservatives to make people believe their crap
>>5219406
>that hasn't stopped them from working with conservatives
Yep, pretty much this shit. Pic related.
>>5218674
that article
>I'm a trans inclusive
>transwomen are just men appropriating REAL women
>trannies shouldn't be allowed in REAL women's spaces
>obviously they're men and the face none of the dangers of being a womyn, so they don't need any safe spaces
>only mentions Caitlin Jenner
>TERF is a dirty word
>no mention of transmen as usual
oh whats that? I cant hear you over the sound of this TERF echo-chamber.
I never hated "terfs." At first I was intrigued about who they were and why do they "hate" us poor innocent trannies then I started reading their blogs more and more and found out that I agree with so many points they make while the stuff that comes out of most trans activists' mouths makes me ashamed like for instance this guy who most likely spent his previous life as a conservative, heterosexual Christian man who didn't care about women's issues and still doesn't.
Either he doesn't understand that women want to have full control and autonomy over their bodies without some government prohibiting them to do so since it's enough religion dudes openly want to raise and groom women like cattle and harvest parts of their bodies for more dudes to ungratefully crawl out of these lowly bitches' dirty worthless dick dispenser holes and continue abusing them into shutting them up and forcing them to pump out more dudeslings because the divine dude said so and who are you to say otherwise, you are just a woman you are not even human, so.
In a more recognizable analogy contraception is literally as important to women as HRT is to (trans) women so why do some woman-hating dudes still have trouble getting this issue? How come this dude wants to get free hormones for dudes with opinions like his while not willing to grant the same for women he's supposedly to be part of?
>>5218786
>god damn why do trans men get it so much fucking easier
Because feminists are generally neurotic banshees where the vast majority of men have simply stopped caring all that much about homosexuality or female-to-male transitioning.
>>5219653
Ew ya I hate Serano. Just another late transitioner agp fetishist "trans activist" but according to tranny dogma we all must worship them bc they wrote some shity book "whipping girl" (haven't read it). The hero of trans lesbians everywhere
>>5218674
I don't reduce literally everything to men v women,
So I still hate
Terfs
Racists
Ableists
Antisemites
>>5219439
>>5219477
terf rule number 10: terfs never pick on "cute trannies", just hons and obvious dudes in a dress
>>5218951
Typical TERF.
When logic becomes too challenging, fall back on colorfully describing your pain.
Get some new tricks.
>>5219477
Appropriation of womanhood and invasion of female spaces is only fully completed by passable trans women. Watch'em go nuts.
>>5219687
Wrong. IRL, cute ones, if not stealth, are treated like shit. They can't too much afford it on medias, that's all.
>>5219390
....... Why do TERFS use libfem as a slur then?
If they're so liberal.
>>5219743
well since im cute and not stealth ill test your theory out. where do I go to find terfs? because all the normal women ive met accept me as a woman, or at least the vast majority. a weird woman that they kinda exclude, but a woman nonetheless.
>>5219787
Where you'll find the 40+ generally.
If they don't bother you, you might be a gross hon, sry.
>>5219678
I wonder whether he formed his outlandish views before or after Whipping Girl because so far I haven't encountered much and actually some of the views were spot on like fetishization of the trans body and dull archetypes in the media that harm the trans person's image and mental health. But it's the same book where he also claims he was raped and suddenly he knew he was a woman ... probably because all women get raped duh.
>>5219758
Because they actually believe that liberalism a moderate or even right-wing term and that it's different from True Leftism™
>>5219828
I have no idea where to find 40+
and if u wanna decide whether im a gross hon how about some contact info?
>>5219743
literally nobody cares about passers but hons stand out and there is nothing scarier to see than a linebacker-shouldered 6 foot hon in a floral dress wanting to enter women's bathroom
>>5219945
so that's why passable trannies never get bullied by terfs because they all get killed first
i get it
>>5219678
>late transitioner agp fetishist
holy buzzwords.
>>5219974
>even if you pass you'll just get murdered
just fuck my shit up
>>5219945
>Yeah? How's they're the ones getting the more violence?
>If you can spot the tranny, the whole trans menace concept fall appart.
>Ur fucking dull mate.
Why not both? One makes for an easily available target, the other makes for an easy boogeyman.
>>5219687
Obviously, a cute passing female presenting individual is not offensive but a deluded psychopathic male that is aping wopmanhood is extermeely offensive.
there's an awfull lot of legitimacy to the TERF point of view, they're objectively right about most of their position, but they just take it too far since they are deranged manhaters.
>>5219945
Some people are naturally violent. Those violent people wouldn't pick on giant trannies. They pick on teenie tinie faggie trannies. Hence passers get more violence. Because nobody wants to start shit with the linebacker.
>>5219901
Is Christine that tall? I would be pretty uncomfortable taking a shit in the same bathroom as Christine desu
>>5220090
yeah they are also right about sick gross AGPs but sometimes they take it too far like when they tell a straight trans woman to go back living as a gay man otherwise she will never be happy and that she's just delusional and never will be a woman anyway (even though she probably passes better than any TERF biowoman)
>>5218679
I understand your issues I was sexually assualted too and I get that same feeling. I don't think you can call yourself a women if you don't transition and people like who you described are ruining the image of actual transsexual women. Like I face alot of the same issues that so called "biological" cis woman face because I pass and had a female upbringing so I find it excluding people like me just is offensive. Why can't TERFs just exclude the hons and snowflakes like the person you mentioned. Why exclude people with an actual medical condition?
>>5220167
Hope you'll get killed soon. At least, your kind is litteraly asking for it.
>>5220205
The entire reason society hates trannies is because most of us don't pass or say autistic bs like "i'm a woman" but they don't do anything about transitioning.
>>5220167
This
Trannies r just like u & me.
>>5220231
Uncle Tom alert.
I'm telling you, you deserve that death waiting for you. You should stop for a minute and meditate on your sins.
>>5220265
all communities are extremely different outside of that one aspect. Trannies are defined by the fact that they're so delusional, they won't admit their own sex. Instead of locking them up with all the other delusional people, society has decided to play along with the tranny delusion. That's why some of society hates trannies. Not because some of them don't pass, but because trannies want to change a fundamental aspect of gender and people don't agree with that.
>>5220231
>entire reason society hates trannies is because most of us don't pass
It's certainly a prime reason, pretty much THE prime reason, yes.
>say autistic bs like "i'm a woman" but they don't do anything about transitioning
Half right. The transtrenders pulling that shit are why TSs have a good reason to be distinguished from that mess. The pre-everything MtFs aren't at fault for identifying as women in and of itself, though, since we all have to start somewhere and it's a bit much to only be allowed to think that once you are doing HRT or presenting female for obvious reasons. I will agree that it's annoying when someone has the means, says they want to, but then never do, though.
>>5220265
I disagree with your worm-like personality.
>Hon get beaten in front of her children at the mall
>Nobody raise a finger
>Hon conclude by saying "welcome to womanhood, teehee"
Old hons, failed stacies, same self-deluded psychotics.
He, I'm not joking about you deserving to be smoked
>>5219298
To add to your point, Cathy Brennan also seems to scour internet forums looking to paint us as secret patriarchal agents.
>>5220300
Science has had plenty of research done that transsexual women are born with female brains. They are in a sense biologically female in that regard. Although I'd say it's more inline with an intersex condition. However we treat intersex individuals with respect to their sex and gender identity. I do not understand why transsexual women do not have that same respect when they pretty much are intersex themselves.
>>5220352
>However we treat intersex individuals with respect
Lel, but for fck sake, will you shut up.
>Real actual laughs in front of my laptop.
>>5220330
oh ok so you don't actually have a valid argument.
I will say that TERFs have won in thier agenda because they were allowed to fuck trans women over a couple decades ago which has now created all the hons we see today which are the only group the media focuses which makes society hate us more. It's all a mess and being stealth right now is the only solution.
>>5220381
>you don't actually have a valid argument.
Homie, you don't see it, maybe, but denial of reality is all over your posts. You can't argue against psychosis and you don't need it: it's self-defeating.
>>5220390
You haven't even brought up a counterpoint yet, you are just spewing insults.
>>5218747
Plenty of liberal men support mtfs and tell terfs to kill themselves.
>>5218752
> we find it utterly despicable.
When Christopher Hambrook raped two women because he told shelters he identified as trans and was let in, mtfs said NOTHING. fuck off, you fucking liar.
>>5218830
'The acronym barely means Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist anymore. Means any person trans people don't like, really.
>>5218993
Ask Rothblatt or Jenner to build you some shelters. They're billionaires.
>>5219048
>>5219015
>terfs don't like me, they think i'm a man
>I'm not a man they are wah
Got bored with >replying but anyway I don't know how you CAN'T understand TERFs. Trans people got vagina monologues and that project vulva thing pulled. Trans people call women uterus bearers. Trans people changed women's colleges to "all genders except cis men" college. Trans people tried to argue abortion wasn't a women's issue. Trans people are trying to badger lesbians into sucking dick or they're bigots. Trans people looked the other way when Hambrook raped women or Woolbert raped a female teen or Perry killed three prostitutes (there are others, too, but anyway). Trans people are redefining female, sex, woman, gender, etc, which redefines what feminism, misogyny and sexism means. How do you NOT expect some people, especially feminists, to hate you? There was literally some MTF on Buzzfeed with a beard and some feminine clothing saying "I'm redefining what a woman is" - like, do you think anyone wants you to do that? Some beardo in a dress is a woman and that's supposed to something good and amazing, and not offensive or absurd at all? Really?
>>5220369
Intersex people are literally treated with respect in a societal sense. No major religion condemns them, and direspecting them(such as calling an intersex woman a freak or manlady) is frowned upon and considered outright ignorant behavior.
Literally any reasonable person when educated about intersex people will be just fine with them. But those same people will simultaneously degrade trannies because their gender identity is delusional.
The same logic allowing someone with chimaerism to live as a woman and respecting their inclusion into women-spaces can be extended to trans women quite easily. This is largely because intersex women tend to look better than trans women -and- the whole psychological effect of "they didnt have a choice" whereas people think trannies have a choice for some reason, and are thus intentionally being freaks.
>>5220404
To which argument? Peep do not like me because the nasty hons?
I won't feedspoon anybody that high, sorry.
>>5220430
Intersex'd people are butchered at birth, you fucking moron.
>>5220434
You are literally retarded if you don't even know what my original post was on this thread. Fuck off.
>>5220441
When did I ever say intersex people's lives are roses and daisies? There are obviously people who discriminate against them, but there is no great debate as to whether intersex people should be allowed in x bathroom. Their gender identity is respected in a general sense.
Even intersex people who are butchered and later decide to transition to the other gender get far more respect than trannies.
yes, fight against each other. that's exactly what we want.
>>5218679
What was the article?
>>5220407
>Ask Rothblatt or Jenner to build you some shelters. They're billionaires.
Don't know who Rothblatt is, but I seriously don't think Jenner would want to donate money to build tranny shelters. She's totally out of touch with the LGBT community and is a Republican, so she probably expects other people to be "responsible" and pay for everything themselves.
>>5220458
>Get butchered at birth
>Agonize all my life over gender issues
>May have to transition
>Get the same shit than trannies when transitioning as you don't mess with what's written on your id card for free
>get the same shit than trannies if your gender presentation does not fully match your physical appearance
>Some moronic anon told me my life "ain't all roses and daisies."
Just trying to empathise at a basic level. Try.
>>5220486
Yes, but they can ask her, or pressure her to do so. And since Hambrook raped two women by using "gender identity" as a way to get in, they should also be pushing for a way to prove transness at shelters and set up some boundaries. But MTFs don't give a fuck if women get raped - it's not their problem because they're not women. We're the "other" to them. They also know that if some MTF rapes a woman they can just say, "omg we're just people! All people do bad things! wah!"
Martine Rothblatt is who I mean. Maybe she's not quite a billionaire, but she's pretty damn rich. MTFs don't bother her or Jenner because they'd rather pester "cis" women to coddle and mother them.
>>5218674
Pretty sure nobody hates. It's just hard to take lunatics who hound doctors and their patients, stalk scientists who study hormones and neurogenisis and insist anything that runs contrary to your revolution is part of the patriarchy, wether that be science medicine or individualism.
Preach Stalinism all you want .
>>5220519
Do you think it reflects badly on men as a group when a man commits a rape? Do you think it reflects badly on cis women as a group when a cis woman commits rape?
>>5220510
I rly hope you're not being serious rn
All I said was that people don't hate intersex people for being intersex people. The bullshit intersex people go through is largely based around ignorance and a bad legal system.
Whereas trannies both have a bad legal system AND an enormous amount of people hate them simply for being trannies. Not so for intersex people, there is no organized hatred of intersex people outside of fringe eugenics circles.
>get the same shit than trannies if your gender presentation does not fully match your physical appearance
Oh wow would you look at that, if they get mistaken for trannies, they get beat like trannies do! This certainly doesn't back up my point at all.
>>5220407
>Trans people got vagina monologues pulled.
You mean the thespians went on strike and refused to preform it.
Thy cited it's unashamed advocacy for pedophilia and what they claimed was racism as a reason for not wanting to preform it.
You just can't handle getting told no.
>>5220519
How fitting the very same person who's holding witch hunts because across used their free speech rights and refused to preform your pedophile manifesto are now turning around d and talking to about imaginary predators.
>>5220533
If your response to MTFs raping women is derailment, you don't actually give a shit about women at all. You're not really worth talking to.
>>5218674
Seriously. I don't understand why radical feminism is still in a rage because some actors wouldn't take part in unashamed pedophile advocacy.
What ever happened to free speech? Why do you think it should be a crime to refuse to preform your sick manifestos?
>>5220574
Says the one calling for criminal charges because trannies magically made actors not want to preform your calls for the rape of little girls.
If you care about violence against women then start with yourself.
>>5220574
should every muslim get down on hand and knee and beg for forgiveness? for 9/11? for madrid? for 7/7? do we stop allowing them to live with us?
>>5220486
What's wrong with adults being responsible and paying for themselves??
>>5220549
anti intersex hate is pretty much trans hate. most people don't know the difference and if the intersex person appears to be the wrong gender physically and legally they're going to be treated like a tranny, which is to say, like shit.
>>5220549
All respect du to an intersexed woman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFqV-ptvLmI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPRkquVU7aw
>>5220558
Oh, wow, this again. And MTFs think men don't love and protect them.
>“At it’s core, the show offers an extremely narrow perspective on what it means to be a woman. … Gender is a wide and varied experience, one that cannot simply be reduced to biological or anatomical distinctions, and many of us who have participated in the show have grown increasingly uncomfortable presenting material that is inherently reductionist and exclusive,” read a school-wide email drafted by the Mount Holyoke Project Theater board’s Erin Murphy, and obtained by Reform.
>Murphy added that the replacement performance — comprised of student monologues delivered in a similar fashion as the original — will fix the “problems” that the Theater board believes are inherent in Ensler’s widely performed 1996 play, including what Murphy described as issues regarding its handling of race, class and “other identities.” Ensler’s stage work was intended to celebrate women’s sexuality.
I'm aware of the pedo stuff, but all articles I've seen mention trans issues as the main reason it was pulled. Cite articles where "thespians" mentioned ONLY pedo stuff and racism, thanks.
>>5220592
More importantly, will the radfems get down and beg the childhood sexual abuse survivors for forgiveness?
They've openly made sexualy healing children a central part of their ideology. They bear personal responsibility for all the times pedophiles made good on what they called for.
>>5220596
Nothing's "wrong" with it, but that doesn't change the fact that they don't HAVE the money for it.
>>5220574
It's not derailment at all. I'm asking for consistency. When you apologize for every rape ever committed by a man, then it will be reasonable to expect the trans community to do the same.
>>5220622
>shooting the messenger instead of the message
the point
^
your head
>>5220616
>They've openly made sexualy healing children a central part of their ideology
where?
>>5220611
You just said it yourself.
The actors used their 1st amendment rights to refuse. It had nothing to do with transsexuals.
And they made a good point to about racism.
Why do you think it's wrong to refuse to preform something that goes against your ideals?
Why should childhood sex abuse survivors be forced to recite your ode to hebephilia hebephilia?
Your actions betray everything you claim to stand for.
>>5220625
So why don't they get jobs and earn some money?
>>5220600
>most people dont know the difference
Yeah that's literally all I said once a person is educated about what intersex actually means they are rarely going to have a beef with them. Not so for trannies, we're the evil boogeyman.
>>5220622
Gay male. Might take pills for weird reasons but that's asides from the point.
Childhood sex abuse is no laughing matter and no matter how much adhoms or derailment about patriarchy boogie men you throw it still doesn't make your advocacy for pedophilia any less deplorable.
The fact you couldn't handle people refusing to associate with its message and just went on a witch hunt just proves how much your actions contradict everything they claim to protect.
>>5220637
>still refusing to answer simple questions and cite articles
>"It had nothing to do with transsexuals."
>they said trans people specifically
>"NOTHING! NOTHING TO DO WITH TRANSSEXUALS!"
>>5220645
typical feminist, all complaint and no substance
>>5220645
>Why would I apologize for men's crimes? This isn't even about apology. Go back and actually read what I wrote, thanks.
If you're not asking that mtfs apologize, what DO you want them to do?
>>5220633
Right in the whole fucking "good rape" skit.
If you don't like that then don't make the whole play emblematic of your ideology.
>>5220673
die, apparently
>>5220653
>I take pills but I'm a gay man
Trying to dance around not labeling yourself a MTF or something? I don't really care. You dudes and MTFs can try to make this exclusively about pedo stuff but I will repeat:
>“At it’s core, the show offers an extremely narrow perspective on what it means to be a woman. … Gender is a wide and varied experience, one that cannot simply be reduced to biological or anatomical distinctions, and many of us who have participated in the show have grown increasingly uncomfortable presenting material that is inherently reductionist and exclusive,” read a school-wide email drafted by the Mount Holyoke Project Theater board’s Erin Murphy, and obtained by Reform.
>Murphy added that the replacement performance — comprised of student monologues delivered in a similar fashion as the original — will fix the “problems” that the Theater board believes are inherent in Ensler’s widely performed 1996 play, including what Murphy described as issues regarding its handling of race, class and “other identities.” Ensler’s stage work was intended to celebrate women’s sexuality.
>>5220658
>read a school-wide email drafted by the Mount Holyoke Project Theater board’s Erin Murphy
There you go. Maybe when you can explain how the trannies magically compelled her and her peers to say no you'll make a little more sense.
Why do you want people to be forced to promote your sick pedophile agenda?
>>5220675
>thinks one woman's play about vaginas makes pedoness a central part of feminism ideology
>on 4chan
I see.
Hey, you gonna answer if you're a man or what?
>>5220510
Even if you're born intersex, if you transition after they have assigned you a sex, you're still a transsexual.
Technically, anyone that gets surgery at any point to alter anything about your sex, like genitalia, are actually transsexual.
>>5218889
>as a transwoman
Guess into what it goes.
>>5220699
>magically
Trans people are actual students at Mount Holyoke. I'm glad you admitted it had everything to do with transsexuals, thanks, it was real big of you.
>>5220604
>Started out skipping through it a little
>Seemed a bit funny
>Watch it
>The usual "puke after kissing a transsexual"
I just can't find that funny, it's just cringy, and offensive.
Anyway... This video made me stop being jealous of kimber james.
>>5220724
>offensive
Bouhou. Poor little thing.
>>5220688
No I'm perfectly fine with being a guy and all the social stuff that comes with it. I'd just rather my body continue to be neotenous/feminine.
That's not a hugely upcoming thing with effeminate gay males. Just look at the board.
>read a school-wide email drafted by the Mount Holyoke Project Theater board’s Erin Murphy
After you explain how the theater actors personal decisions reflect on transsexuals.
>>5220705
Why would feminists favor it so much if they didn't agree with the pedo stuff?
>>5220715
>read a school-wide email drafted by the Mount Holyoke Project Theater board’s Erin Murphy
I'm glad you admitted you think Erin and the rest of the Holyoke are all transsexuals in disguise.
What a surprise, a SWERF/White Feminist site also supports TERFs.
>But, while I continue to fully embrace my transgender sisters in the fight against patriarchy, I will no longer vilify my feminist sisters who don’t,
lol if you support someone how about you fucking listen to them instead of coming to your own shit conclusions about hate groups?
>>5220673
>>5220685
I literally said build their own shelters or find ways that limit possibilities of future crimes like what Hambrook did. I literally said that I wanted them to take rape seriously, rather than look the other way or complain that "they're just people wah" when it happens.
But this is the exact thing that happens. Men and MTFs see simple shit like this is going to make them "die." Wah, wah, you poor dick bearers, life is so hard, women are so MEAN when other women get raped, gosh.
>>5220705
>The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could, in which a woman recalls memories of traumatic sexual experiences in her childhood and a self-described "positive healing" sexual experience in her adolescent years with an older woman. This particular skit has sparked outrage, numerous controversies and criticisms due to its content, among which the most famous is the Robert Swope controversy (see below). In the original version, she is 13, but later versions changed her age to 16. It also originally included the line, "If it was rape, it was a good rape", which was removed from later versions.
You might have never had to deal with this stuff and that's why you can joke around, but the stuff you're advocating is an insult to everyone who has.
>tfw you're a tranny
>tfw you just want blockers, hormones, and all the surgery it'll take to remove your dysphoria
>go to a support group for depression
>say I think that people who call themselves trans but don't transition are obnoxious bothers ruining any hope of trans people being widely accepted
>say I'd rather not be a tranny
>"GAAAAASP OMG ANON THAT'S SO TRANSPHOBIC YOU FUCKING BIGGOT WHERE IS YOUR TRANS* PRIDE REEEEEE"
>they actually stopped just short of shouting "REEEEEE"
>several people curl into the fetal position shouting "TRIGGERED!!"
>Ask why I should be proud of continuing depression, potential self-harm, suicide and a million other shitty things
>more intense version of same reaction, with someone actually shrieking in terror
ffs it's these fucking Tumblr support groups ruining everything
>>5220737
>upcoming
Unusual
I was all set for this to be a fun thread
>i was so excited to see a TERF thread
but as per usual, PROVING THE FUCKING POINT, a bunch of angry insane MtFs blew in and shat all over it with dogshit arguments and strawmen
>strawwomen amirite
and basically turned it into a wheezing, painful, unpleassant swamp of unhappiness
You ruined my night, tranny bitches, I hope you're proud of yourselves
>>5220757
how are you supposed to limit the possibility of other people committing crimes? being trans isn't like living in some small village where we all know each other. i know radshits really hate this, but human beings are individuals and we can't always control what other people do. are you suggesting that everyone in this person's life was aware that they were a potential rapist? why should a trans person in france be held personally accountable for the lack of moral character in someone half way across the planet? it really fucking sucks that someone was raped, but what are we supposed to do, organize a psa and tell everyone the obvious "hey don't rape people it's super bad"? what you're asking is impossible and pretty much just trolling trans people. also im sure many trans people would love to have their own shelters so theyre not fucking constantly hounded by autistic mongs like you, but we have this whole chronic lack of employment and money thing going on and radshits want to prevent every legal measure that would make that situation better. as far as i'm concerned terfs can fuck off.
>>5220778
And once you can tell me how Erin and the others are all transsexuals it'll finally make sense. Besides they were banned until this year. If you can tell me how she and the others all skirted those rules then go for it.
You made the play everything, so don't try and claim it's pedophila advocacy doesn't speak for you.
>>5220758
So you're still going to dodge the question and are dogmatically going to paint me as a pedo and all feminists as pedos? I guess if you admitted you were a man I'd go and find some famous male pedos and that would mean something, huh. Or something. Because I literally never said I approved of the pedo stuff, but neither you or the other dude will shut up about it. "advocating" is this libel
>>5220757
>build their own shelters
And where are they supposed to get the money to fund that kind of thing? You'll probably say "well too bad, I guess they'll have to go without shelters then." But if you're so dismissive towards them and think mtfs don't need shelters, what do cis women need them for? It's not like one group is more deserving than the other.
>limit possibilities of future crimes like what Hambrook did
And how are we supposed to do that? A "test of transness" has been proposed, but even if it was something practical to do, there are some legit trans women who rape, no demographic is completely free of rapists. Do you KNOW that Hambrook wasn't really trans? And you assert that mtfs "looked the other way", can you elaborate on this? What actually happened? What did you mean by this?
>Not everyone did or does, even before it was pulled. But you're ignorant about feminism, and just hate it anyway, I get that.
I don't hate feminism, you're confusing me with someone else. Though I think associating oneself with something that talks about pedophilia in a positive way is a really bad move for your image.
>>5220812
Not that person, but...
Being male isn't a choice. It's something your born into whether you like it or not. If many men were pedophiles, that wouldn't mean I'm somehow supporting pedophilia by being a man, because I never chose to be part of that demographic group in the first place.
On the other hand, identifying with the feminist community is a choice. IF (as the anon is arguing) feminism really is about pedophilia, then anyone who chooses to identify as a feminist is supporting pedophilia.
>>5220786
This is an lgbt board. Unless you're here for the play and want p added it was Off topic.
>>5220812
You spent the whole thread talking about how it was an outrage Erin and the other female actors refused to preform your play.
You made getting told no central to the narrative of your oppression.
How isn't that building everything around one of the most prominent arguments for pedophilia ever made.
How would homophobia on your part change that?
>>5220153
Are you an idiot? They think all trannies are man-freaks.
>>5218679
Unfortunately, it is impossible to make massive generalizations about groups of people and expect to retain any accuracy. There is no group of people that is entirely made up of bad people. Even bad people, as a group, is made up of pitiable mentally ill people.
However, while acceptance and tolerance are necessary, how we deal with people who don't fit into society must obviously be personally tailored to each individual. Predators and other people who significantly harm people's ability to enjoy life must be segregated into jails and prisons until mental health care is powerful enough to take care of them.
As far as trans people and trans advocates go, again... you have some good, and some bad. Many trans women are just unfortunate girls who are depressed about their bodies and how they might never fit into society, or be accepted by other women, or always be treated as some different, despicable or pitiable or curious thing rather than a human being. Some trans women are actually just men taking advantage of trans advocacy in order to fulfill some psychopathic desire.
Some advocates are blind, some advocates are reasonable human beings.
My suggestions is to treat people on a personal basis. Prejudgement doesn't serve anyone well - generalizations are oversimplifications in most cases, I find, and they leave you exposed to either danger or the risk of missing out on something beautiful.
>>5220851
>feminist community is a choice. IF (as the anon is arguing) feminism really is about pedophilia
Technically only said the ones who hold that horrible play in high esteem.
>>5220880
It's not my play. Where are you getting homophobia from this? It's not about getting told no, why are you still lying? "ever made"? Maybe I should just stop replying, because, come on.
>>5220851
Then why won't he say he's a man, anon?
>>5220831
>>5220809
Maybe the two of you should read the fucking thread. Also, look up the details of WHY Hambrook got into a women's shelter. As far as I'm concerned, MTFs are not women period and are only considered women by redefining what "women" means. Hambrook got into a women's shelter by simply saying he was a trans woman named Jessica. Since there was no policy of "you actually have to be hormones or some kind of proof," he was allowed in. What is the actual "sheltering" factor here, anyway, if this is the policy? Anyway, do either of you think women's shelters just magically appear out of thin air? Do you think they were gifts and women didn't have to struggle to make them? Like, I literally said "ask wealthier MTFs like Rothblatt and Jenner" but I guess you were too obsessed with this pedo shit to actually read the thread.
>your image
Dude, stop projecting.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3316438/You-no-right-represent-Caitlyn-Jenner-confronted-trans-protesters-angry-scenes-LGBT-charity-luncheon.html
Net worth of 100 million and trans people purposefully pick "you don't represent me!!" as a criticism? What the fuck? Ask her for some fucking money instead of trying to alienate her from the community, jfc.
Martine Rothblatt, 390 million. How much does a shelter really cost now?
>>5220658
>trannies rlly are destroying american/males/the world and raping women's bodies with their existence, despite being a small poor minority they totally are responsible for a huge conspiracy to falsify all the "research" that supports them, it's totally not just a scapegoat to distract from our pedophile problem!
>>5220959
People aren't trying to redefine what "women" means, I imagine; people are trying to define what a "trans woman" is. It's problematic. If you are too generous, then you include cis men - if you are too specific, you exclude early-transition trans women. There is no definition that can be good enough yet.
However, if I may, I would say that a trans woman should have to pass before being allowed into a woman's shelter. The same goes to bathrooms and other such things. If you want to be treated as a woman, you should look, sound, and act like one.
This is perhaps cruel to early-transition women, however, and the majority of trans women who just don't and won't pass. Proof of hormone treatment for a set period of time may be another way to effectively filter predators.
Honestly, I hadn't heard of a male predator misusing the trans identity in order to further his agenda - it's a great shame, really, that a very small number of men have the power to invalidate thousands of trans women. Most of us are just people trying to be as happy as we can be. The desire to hurt others is rare.
>>5221022
Jenner isn't going to give her money to help the trans community. 'She' isn't even for gay rights. The only person Jenner cares about is [him]self.
And no, Jenner doesn't represent the trans community - no single person could. It's a diverse group. He definitely represents some of the community, but the part of the community that is actually not made up of male fetishists would be better-represented by someone else.
Unfortunately, young trans girls have like no role-models to look up to.
>>5220757
Lesbians are more likely to rape and assault women so they should build their own shelters separate from normal women's shelters too right?
>>5220959
>Then why won't he say he's a man, anon?
Why won't who say they're a man? Is the person even actually a man?
>Anyway, do either of you think women's shelters just magically appear out of thin air? Do you think they were gifts and women didn't have to struggle to make them?
There's a lot more cis women than trans women, and trans women tend to be far more hated than cis women. You're probably just going to go all libertarian and say "well that just means trans women don't DESERVE shelters!"
>>5221022
>Net worth of 100 million and trans people purposefully pick "you don't represent me!!" as a criticism? What the fuck? Ask her for some fucking money instead of trying to alienate her from the community, jfc.
Jenner is a homophobic Republican. Not only is it true that she does not represent the transgender community, it's very unlikely that she'd be willing to donate some of her wealth to help LGBT people.
>>5221022
maybe because he's an old prick who will never know how much is sucks growing up young and trans. he literally had 6 decades of living as a wealthy male athlete to support his midlife crisis and this bourgie fuck wants actual trans people to take him seriously? fuck right off. i don't want old hons representing us and i definitely don't want their fucking charity if they're going to advocate right wing bullshit alongside it.
Lana Wachowski, 125 million.
>>5220959
You used vm getting canceled by the female students as an example of the terrible tranny persecution you were facing. You've made it and all the not good parts of it your own. If anyone else did such a thing, you'd have pounced.
>Then why won't he say he's a man, anon?
Castrated boy if you want to get technical but yeah, I'm a man and fine with Iding as one. And even if that weren't so, I don't see how you can equate what somebody does with their body to endorsing a play and it's ideology?
>>5220786
>a bunch of angry shitlords refusing to stop talking about our pedophilia and just agree with everything we say and hate everyone we hate!
>>5221056
>Why won't who say they're a man?
Silly anon, what your post actually said doesn't matter!
You're just a strawman to be easily defeated!
>>5221036
>acting group literally says we pulled it because of trans people
>anonymous jackass: I will die on this pedo hill
>>5221040
>People aren't trying to redefine what "women" means
You are wrong. The construction of "cis" pushes actual human females into a subclass of women rather than just being "women."
The rest I don't know what to say to, because plenty of feminists believe "women are whoever identifies as women" to include MTFs as much as possible. Most trans people support this, afaik.
Saying Jenner isn't a MTF is absurd. Calling her he but expecting people to respect your trans identity is hypocritical.
>>5221053
>normal women
This would be quite the study if you could prove that lesbians rape women more often than bisexual, pansexual, or straight women do. I'll wait patiently while you find proof.
>>5221056
>Why won't who say they're a man?
The person I was replying to.
>You're probably just going to go all libertarian and say "well that just means trans women don't DESERVE shelters!"
You can keep saying it, doesn't make it true. Again, since you're totally dense, do you think women didn't have to work to build those shelters and keep them running?
>
it's very unlikely that she'd be willing to donate some of her wealth to help LGBT people.
>> it's very unlikely that she'd be willing to donate some of her wealth to help LGBT people.
Yeah, and antagonizing her is not going to help. Has anyone even ASKED her for help?
>>5221064
>old hons
Literally get over your ageism. There are worse people in the world than Jenner and your community is pretty hard up. I'm amazed you want to stay ideologically pure rather than get some repub money to build some fucking shelters. So absurd.
I missed the picture on the other post, here's Wachowski. Also how many MTFs are off in Silicon Valley? Why hate on "hons" when they built capital and can use it to help you? Why hate on your own kind like that in the first place?
>>5218679
>There was an article on a Trans woman who had a full thick beard, took no hormones, and had no interest in transitioning. So by all accounts, this human looked like a grown man in a dress and make up, and just "identified" as a woman
desu most trans people wouldn't consider him a woman. I know I wouldn't consider him a woman.
>>5221147
>along with outdated views supporting RACISM and PEDOPHILIA the group mentions trannies
>these means it's ok to scapegoat it as trannies alone FORCING them
>>5221147
>This would be quite the study if you could prove that lesbians rape women more often than bisexual, pansexual, or straight women do. I'll wait patiently while you find proof.
You honestly think STRAIGHT women rape more women than lesbians do?
>>5221147
"You are wrong." You're pretty confrontational... you kind of sound like a man with your communication style in general.
Also, no, "cis" isn't used to demean people; it's used for the sake of clarity. If anything, someone like yourself should take it as a compliment.
And what "plenty of feminists" believe, and what you imagine "most trans people" believe is irrelevant. Women are not whoever identifies as women according to you and I - you should accept that definitions aren't absolute. You can't use them to form generalizations, which is unfortunate because you seem to really want to.
And it's really not absurd. I can't imagine that anyone that lived 99% of their lives completely happily as a man could possibly be trans. Dysphoria is kind of a requirement for being trans. He doesn't experience it, ergo he's not trans.
>>5221074
>castrated boy
This is like a repeat of the gay dude taking hormones. Who are you trying to kid?
AN example of a woman's play about vaginas was pulled BECAUSE trans people are not okay with women talking about vaginas or women being associated with vaginas. I quoted that twice, and no other person posted an article saying that the pedo shit was why it was pulled. Stop lying.
>you would have pounced
Do we know each other personally? No, huh? Stop making assumptions.
And I'm not equating shit. Do you ever stop jumping to conclusions? I'd say "that was rhetorical" but honestly, you wouldn't answer a direct question for at least four posts anyway.
>>5221147
Tell everyone how Erin and all the non trans actors deciding against it because their ideals is trannies fault? It's their free speech, deal with it.
>This would be quite the study if you could prove that lesbians rape women more often than bisexual, pansexual, or straight women do. I'll wait patiently while you find proof.
>https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml
>>Sexual abuse by a woman partner has been reported by up to 50% of lesbians
>http://www.advocate.com/crime/2014/09/04/2-studies-prove-domestic-violence-lgbt-issue
>The CDC’s 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, released again in 2013 with new analysis, reports in its first-ever study focusing on victimization by sexual orientation that the lifetime prevalence of rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner was 43.8 percent for lesbians
First one is a review of twelve different studies. It's conclusive.
One of my artist friends (lesbian) recently and suddenly decided she was radfem/terf. My dash was full of posts of her arguing with some seriously batshit libfem/peaktrans people.
Mostly peaktrans arguing how lesbians not wanting to fuck trans women makes them transphobic. Also some terfs arguing that it's justifiable for cis women to be uneasy about sharing safe spaces with trans women who were raised/socialized as male.
I guess it took a mental toll on her because she deleted her tumblr last week. Funny shit.
tldr terfs are the lesser of two evils
>>5218889
>trans people as a group are becoming massive, whiny narcissists.
it's been that way for decades desu
>>5221147
Actually, most women's shelters are built on taxpayer funds.
A tiny haircut in the uk was enough to make dozens of them go under. They're only viable because special interests earmarking govent money.
>>5219036
>Not an excuse for lesbians and feminists who let them run wild for decades. It isn't just words. Those cunts are out there to get us.
YUPP.
>>5221147
>You are wrong. The construction of "cis" pushes actual human females into a subclass of women rather than just being "women."
>subclasses of categorization necessarily reduce implied value
>what's an ftm?
Cis only defines thing as much as straight does with respect to gay.
>>5221209
>AN example of a woman's play about vaginas was pulled BECAUSE trans people are not okay with women talking about vaginas or women being associated with vaginas. I quoted that twice, and no other person posted an article saying that the pedo shit was why it was pulled. Stop lying.
Don't say "trans people" like you're trying to implicate all trans people. 99% of people don't care about any of this.
It is a bit weird, though. I haven't really read the thread, but a play about vaginas seems strange to me. Is there some kind of vagina cult going on?
>>5221178
>mentions transness for several sentences
>adds on race, class, and pedo stuff after
>PEDO HILL FOREVER screamed anon
>>5221184
Well, do you have these stats to prove anything at all, anon?
>>5221192
I'm confrontational because you're annoying me. And you really should pay more attention to yourself and other MTFs. "Ah, but it is YOU who is the man! Because of your attitude! I am not a misogynist who thinks women should behave only a certain way, nope!" is some classic MTF arguing tactics. I'm not even upset, but yeah. You're a misogynist.
>
verb: demean; 3rd person present: demeans; past tense: demeaned; past participle: demeaned; gerund or present participle: demeaning
>Also, no, "cis" isn't used to demean people
>demean
>cause a severe loss in the dignity of and respect for (someone or something)
I said "redefine." Cis and trans are used as subclass categories of a larger class called "women," rather than women are women and transwomen are transwomen or MTFs or whatever.
>If anything, someone like yourself should take it as a compliment.
Why?
>And what "plenty of feminists" believe, and what you imagine "most trans people" believe is irrelevant.
No, it's not, because these people are getting shit pulled, colleges changed, female spaces policies' changed, etc. This has real life consequences.
>And it's really not absurd. I can't imagine that anyone that lived 99% of their lives completely happily as a man could possibly be trans.
Jenner said she attempted transition when she was younger and chickened out. Get over it, she's as legit as you are.
>Dysphoria is kind of a requirement for being trans. He doesn't experience it, ergo he's not trans.
Gosh, when they start testing people's brains or something for actual proof of dysphoria I'm sure you'll step right up, huh?
Your comment, in total, is pretty annoying. Seems like you're really oblivious about this stuff.
>>5221227
>>Sexual abuse by a woman partner has been reported by up to 50% of lesbians
>http://www.advocate.com/crime/2014/09/04/2-studies-prove-domestic-violence-lgbt-issue
>The CDC’s 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, released again in 2013 with new analysis, reports in its first-ever study focusing on victimization by sexual orientation that the lifetime prevalence of rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner was 43.8 percent for lesbians
I don't see how a group that's the prime factor in violence against women should be crying about imaginary tranny straw men .
>>5221227
>choosing to immerse yourself in stupidity
>being surprised when it takes a mental toll on you
>nobody irl gives a shit about any of this and they're subjecting theirself to this why
>>5221295
>read a school-wide email drafted by the Mount Holyoke Project Theater board’s Erin Murphy
If you can tell me how Erin and the other actors who say they decided on their own are trannies that would be great.
As is you're just using trannies as straw men.
Why make a play for pedophiles the center of everything.
>>5221147
>associate yourselves with degenerates and old fetishists so we have something to attack you with.
nice try tho
>>5221300
>intimate partner
No shit that's the same for literally every crime.
But who's more likely to molest a random woman in a locker room? A cis lesbian stranger or a trans lesbian stranger?
>>5221147
> Why hate on "hons"
because trans people that don't pass are the lowest of the low and shouldn't transition unless they have the means to make themselves into presentable human beings. if they can't handle their situation they should just take the easy way out.
>>5221295
>you're annoying me
>I'm not even upset
>Y-you're a misogynist!
>Your comment is pretty annoying
Hue
>This has real life consequences.
Then talk about it on a forum where your words actually matter. If you care about real life consequences, fight for what you believe instead of being a narcissist on an anonymous anime image board.
>Jenner said she attempted transition when she was younger and chickened out.
And if "she" chickened out once and decided to live the rest of his life as a masculine male, obviously his "dysphoria" was next to non-existent.
>Gosh, when they start testing people's brains or something for actual proof of dysphoria I'm sure you'll step right up, huh?
I mean, probably not? Why should I? I have nothing to prove to other people.
>Cis and trans are used as subclass categories of a larger class called "women,
By a small number of people. Most people use "cis" specifically when it's assumed you're talking about trans people and you need to specify otherwise.
>>5221209
I'm the same guy. Been telling you I'm a guy all this time but you wouldn't have it. I don't know how any of that was relevant.
Erin and the other women decided on their own, not transsexuals. Why you would want to pretend women aren't capable of agency is beyond me, but it looks just like another case of your betraying what you claim to stand for.
>>5221215
>Sexual abuse by a woman partner has been reported by up to 50% of lesbians
>lesbians are getting sexually abused by female partners
>does not mention the female partners' defined sexuality
>no comparative stats of bis, pans, straight
>lifetime prevalence of rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner was 43.8 percent for lesbians
>victimization by sexual orientation at 43.8 percent
Dude, unless you're summarizing these incorrectly, you're not proving your point.
>it's their free speech by their ideals
>trans people had nothing to do with convincing them
Why do you keep reaching on this shit?
>>5221265
It's not a reduction of value. It IS a redefinition. If straight and gay are sexualities, trans and cis are what?
>>5221271
>how dare you say it was trans people
>like that implies all trans people everywhere
It doesn't.
>>5220167
>I don't think you can call yourself a women if you don't transition and people like who you described are ruining the image of actual transsexual women.
true.
>>5221343
https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml
Says lesbians are about twice as violent as straight men so...
>>5221345
>they should just take the easy way out.
Meaning kill themselves?
>>5221384
>How is lesbian partner violence different from heterosexual partner violence?
>There are several similarities between lesbian and heterosexual partner violence. Violence appears to be about as common among lesbian couples as among heterosexual couples (1,5).
>>5221363
>I mean, probably not? Why should I? I have nothing to prove to other people.
How would you react if the brain scan indicated that you didn't have dysphoria?
>>5221376
>If straight and gay are sexualities, trans and cis are what?
They're part of your gender identity (specifically how it relates to your assigned sex).
>>5221376
>It doesn't
Oh, good. As long as we're not making generalizations about whole groups of people, and as long as we realize that we're talking about a tiny proportion of a group of people, then that's good.
>trans and cis are what?
Words to describe if you are transitioning or not
>How would you react if the brain scan indicated that you didn't have dysphoria?
That would be pretty weird... I mean, I guess I'd have to accept that I'm actually male, and possibly also a fetishist.
>>5221392
My bad, those said they were only as violent as straight men.
http://www.advocate.com/crime/2014/09/04/2-studies-prove-domestic-violence-lgbt-issue
>The CDC’s 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, released again in 2013 ...the lifetime prevalence of rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner was 43.8 percent for lesbians, 61.1 percent for bisexual women, and 35 percent for heterosexual women, while it was 26 percent for gay men
Not quite double straight men but still more violent.
>>5221411
or dysphoria is experiential and can't be 'scanned' for like a tumor. nobody gives a shit how 'male' or 'female' a brain looks and there's likely a spectrum of neuro and psychological factors that contribute to why people feel the way they do. not being able to identify it in a picture doesn't make it a fetish. stop letting them define the terms of the debate.
>>5221376
http://www.advocate.com/crime/2014/09/04/2-studies-prove-domestic-violence-lgbt-issue
>The CDC’s 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, released again in 2013 ...the lifetime prevalence of rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner was 43.8 percent for lesbians, 61.1 percent for bisexual women, and 35 percent for heterosexual women, while it was 26 percent for gay men
And why do you think women aren't capable of moral agency?
>>5221428
Interesting but what does any of this have to do with cis lesbians versus trans lesbians and sexual assault against strangers?
>>5221338
>Why make a play for pedophiles the center of everything.
Idk, why did you?
>dig into people's personal lives to prove what Murphy has already said - that it was exclusionary to talk about vaginas because trans people
No.
>>5221339
>I'm young and vanilla, that means I'm valid
You are the same as them.
>>5221345
Getting obsessed about passing and age is stupid because some of you won't pass because of mannerisms, not looks. You're extremely dramatic.
>>5221363
>>Y-you're a misogynist!
>MTF doesn't care about misogyny
>confirmed for man
You got more annoying as I kept reading your comment. Are you early in your transition? Just curious, it would explain the ignorance about this stuff.
>words don't matter on 4chan
Ha!
>And if "she" chickened out once and decided to live the rest of his life as a masculine male, obviously his "dysphoria" was next to non-existent.
>I mean, probably not? Why should I? I have nothing to prove to other people.
Regardless of your feelings about dysphoria or Jenner (which are still hypocritical), no one checks dysphoria to see if MTFs like you get into a female space. It literally doesn't matter.
>By a small number of people.
How does this change anything of what I wrote?
>>5221366
>i'm a castrated guy taking hormones
>guy
Ok.
>other women
>refusing to recognize trans students attend Mt Holyoke for the 390 millionth time
>>5221451
>i'm a castrated guy taking hormones
>guy
What about it?
They banned mtf till mid 2015. How the hell could all the graduating seniors who made the call be transsexuals then?
>>5218786
Because cis men haven't grown up in a culture where anti-rape measures have to be woven into their daily routines. (Unless they go to prison, of course.)
>>5221398
"Gender identity" is "woman" or "man". Etc. If it's a subclass (and it is) what is the title of the subclass.
>tiny proportion of a group of people
Well, I don't know about tiny! I think you're understating them purposefully.
>Words to describe if you are transitioning or not
Lengthy title for a subclass.
>implying you're not all fetishists
>>5221441
Ok, since you don't get it: you said they raped more. This says they get raped at rates between bisexual women and straight women. Not about them BEING rapists.
>why do you think women aren't capable of moral agency?
>when did you stop beating your wife?
>>5221384
>twice as violent
Kek, this board still hates lesbians, huh?
>>5221451
vanilla is a male supremacist construct centering violence as sexually exciting and othering healthy, normal sexual relationships.
don't vanilla shame me shitlord.
>>5221430
Anything can be scanned for if your hypothetical technology is advanced enough. What do you think a person is? Everything you experience is inside that skull of yours. If it's there, there is biological evidence for it. If there isn't, there's not.
>>5221451
>I don't care about misogyny
Now you're just making assumptions. My disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate women; it means I think differently than you.
>no one checks dysphoria to see if MTFs like you get into a female space
That would be because it's impossible to check for it, but that's irrelevant anyway.
The fact is simple: Trans women aren't a violent threat to women. A few cases of men pretending to be trans women should not invalidate millions of trans women.
However, your whole belief about what it means to be a woman, and how trans women differ from women, and how women differ from men, is essentially misogynistic because of how you state that womanhood is a part of the identity of women, rather than stating that women are just people with different anatomy who are generally raised differently.You're literally defining women by their bodies, and you're literally trying to pigeonhole and define all women.
You're literally devaluing women right now.
>>5221515
The violence is from women partners and it's still much higher than what straight women get victimized at.
Bi just happen to be getting abused by both men and lesbians
>>5221483
>I don't know what ftms and non-binaries are
>guy who is changing his sex characteristics with hormones and is also castrated
>just feminizing, not mtf
So the use of "transsexual" for you is political or something?
>>5221549
because the person you're replying to is an idiot and the trans boogeymen they keep referring to were likely your missing ftms and dfab nb's who complained that vaginas were being associated with women and therefore they felt left out as men / not-women.
replied to wrong anon, fuck.
>>5221517
Sorry, assumed you called Wachowski a degenerate for her BDSM past.
>mtf deriding male supremacy
Don't be ironic about male supremacy, pls.
>>5221533
You said I was behaving like a man because of sentence structure, and then you mocked me when I said you were a misogynist. Your dismissal about rape is also an indicator. You "just think differently"? You have like, a million backdoors for yourself, don't you?
Can't say I've ever understood why people say it's devaluing women to define them as adult human females, desu. And I honestly think it's a strawman, since you don't offer a better definition. Actually, I think you need to write that paragraph again - it's pretty confusing. I'm not even sure what you're trying to summarize my beliefs as. "how you state that womanhood is a part of the identity of women" - haven't said anything about "womanhood." What would you know about me devaluing myself anyway, especially considering your beliefs about other MTFs?
>Trans women aren't a violent threat to women
Considering you've already played a few cards where trans women aren't trans women if you say they're not, I think you're not in any position to judge. Someone like Donna Perry murders three women as a man and you'd probably say "not a mtf!" for whatever reason.
>>5221542
Yes, and? Anon literally said lesbians were rapists at higher rates than any other women of different sexualities.
>>5218939
That's literally not what it means.
It's really aggravating as someone who's both trans and autistic I've been isolated a lot, people have viewed me as someone who's easy to discard, fuck around with or generally fuck over since it's societally acceptable to do that to "toxic" people, people who are seen as "difficult".
It's not just romantic relationships that are a problem here, but of all sorts. And I'm not really allowed to criticise how other people treat me because "you can't force people to be your friend" and somehow this excuses people to do fucked up shit both within and while ending our friendship.
Opposition to the cotton ceiling concept is the same thing - trans women aren't allowed to be critical. It's not a matter of making individual lesbian women sleep with us(and lets face it, some Bi women fall under this too) it's acknowledging the fact that transphobia DOES play a role in why many lesbians reject trans women, which is isolating. Cis lesbians aren't somehow exempt from transphobia.
But again, we can't criticise social institutions that hurt us for fear of being lumped in with some "Friendzone" fedoralords.
