The last thread’s turret got stuck
Geronimo Stilton Edition
> What's this thread about?
As usual this thread is for the discussion and pics of tracked and wheeled AFVs of all kinds from MBTs to supertanks to self propelled AA guns. Please keep it civil and cite sources for statistics.
The Maus remains one of the most curious oddities to emerge out of the various tank prototypes that Nazi Germany experimented with as the Second World War drew on. Envisioned by Hitler to be impervious to any conventional arms that could be deployed against it, it instead became an unused white elephant. Its origins lie in a request in June 1942 by Hitler to design a super heavy tank mounting a 12.8 cm gun with the maximum achievable amount of protection possible forwarded to the automotive company Porsche of Stuttgart. The earliest projected trial date was posted for May 1943, but frequent difficulties emerged out of the design process of what was then called the Porsche 205 project. Rather than an air-cooled motor, an improvised aircraft engine was installed, Porsche’s longitudinal torsion bar suspension system had to be discarded due to an abject lack of space to fit the ever growing number of components required to accommodate the staggering weight of the vehicle – which continued to grow. With a staggering 220 mm of frontal turret armour, and a large KwK 44 L/55 128 mm gun with the V2 also sporting a 75 mm coax, the weight was an inconceivable 188 tonnes! An ambitious 150 were requested, but the order was outright cancelled in October 1943. A V1 prototype was finally tested in a completed state in 1944, and a V2 was also started later the same year, but this was postponed after an accident with the engine, which would not be replaced until mid-1945. Both variants of the “Maus”, were later demolished at Kummesdorf with interior charges.
> Gun
Rifled 128 mm KwK 44
> Dimensions (l w h)
10.09 x 3.67 x 3.66 m
> Weight
188 tonnes
> Engine
1200hp diesel
> Speed
20 km/h
>>28386261
OP: As always, feedback, suggestions wanted and appreciated.
As they say, go big or go home, so I decided to have a look at the biggest. It really is mind-boggling how anyone expected the enormous weight of the Maus to be able to cross bridges – there clearly was some kind of intent, seeing as how the tank’s ability to navigate bridges was tested during trials. Guderian, it seems, was not too happy with the tank, doubting its ability to function properly in close combat, much like the Elefant. He writes in Panzer Leader, that it was initially intended to mount a 150 mm and the weight to be 175 tonnes. What materialised, as we can see today, was a little different. The story behind the surviving prototype of the Maus, now resting at Kubinka in Russia, is the hybridisation of the relatively intact hull of the V1 and the turret of the V2 into one vehicle, for the purposes of testing by the Soviets.
Interestingly, Krupp was working on a super heavy tank called the “Lion”, with two patterns, a lighter 76 tonne and a heavier 90 tonne. A 105 mm L/70 would be its armament. Not too much is known about it, but the Maus effectively killed the Lion project, although later a shortened 80 tonne version was suggested with the 88 mm L/71 – a little like the Tiger II.
Also, I was wondering if anyone had any requests for what other heavy AFV to do next.
>>28386265
More tank news, as per the new format.
If you have more queries regarding a news story, just point it out, and I’ll further elaborate and provide links.
Paraguay is reportedly keeping its venerable M4 Sherman and M3A1 Stuart tanks, both 75 years old as trainers for its military. The country’s Stuarts were sourced in 1970 from Brazil as donations, while the Shermans were delivered from Argentina in 1980.
In Russia, Rosoboronexport, a subsidiary of the state owned enterprise Rostec, has announced plans to market its Uran-9 multipurpose UGV for export in 2016. The drone is capable of providing remote reconnaissance, combined arms fire support as well having counter-terrorism applications, its armament including Ataka ATGMs, a 30 mm 2A72 autocannon and a 7.62 mm coaxial machinegun.
According to unnamed sources in Ukraine, it is currently in the process of developing a new 155 mm self-propelled tracked howitzer. With close cooperation from Polish companies and accordance with NATO standards, the SPG is based off the chassis of the Oplot-M Main Battle Tank.
In other news, Ukrainian officials also countered previous claims that Thailand was considering the purchase of T-90S MBTs from Russia due to an impasse in the scheduled delivery of T-84 Oplot-M MBTs from KMDB. The willingness and ability of the firm to deliver on its contract was reiterated, to be executed “without delay”.
And that’s all for now.
>>28386275
Finally, I wish you all the best for 2016. Let's hope for good things in the future.
Happy New Year.
>>28386292
Happy new year, thanks for making /k/ a better place.
>>28386275
>>28386292
>>28386265
>>28386261
Seeing as you're gonna run out of tanks for the OP at some point, have you thought about doing OPs on famous tank battles/tank commanders? It could be neat.
Thanks again for maintaining these threads man, and have a happy new year.
>>28386739
Absolutely, tank commander, battles, campaigns of note and perhaps even tactics/strategies are all possible in the future.
>>28386777
Sounds great, it would be a crime to leave those trips unchecked.
Can Australia into tanks?
ignore the penis
>>28386816
Dude
explain
>>28386882
it shoots hot lead all over the enemy
>>28386816
>Australia decided to import tanks instead of build their own
somewhere out there in an alternate reality the Australian war machine is out there conquering the world
>>28386991
When are they going to actually let us buy this glorious piece of shitposting in War Thunder?
>>28386991
I shudder to imagine what it would be like to crew what is essentially a Firefly, except with an even smaller turret and less room.
![[AK] GIRLS und PANZER - Akiyama Yukari's Tank Corner 06 [6CC644C1].mkv_snapshot_16.11_[2016.01.01_15.40.38].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4D9BmOW.jpg "[AK] GIRLS und PANZER - Akiyama Yukari's Tank Corner 06 [6CC644C1].mkv_snapshot_16.11_[2016.01.01_15.40.38].jpg")
>>28386265
>Guderian, it seems, was not too happy with the tank,
Hitler should trust Guderian more.
>>28386999
They actually put out a devblog for that AC IV pictured there, put it never made it into the game. It was also probably going to be a premium.
Shame Gaijin has done absolutely nothing to improve ground forces, they just keep compressing the BRs and adding new useless shit.
It's a game that has a lot of potential to be a decent tank sim, but is ruined by poor developers who aren't responsive to their playerbase in the slightest.
>>28387042
>put it never made it into the game. It was also probably going to be a premium.
They're waiting for the discount to be over on british vehicles, it'll go into the store tomorrow. Mark my words.
>>28387108
I would not be surprised, just like the time they hiked up the Steam pack prices right before the sale. Gaijin is capable of some insane jewery.
Does anyone know the effectiveness in comparison to RHA steel a given thickness of the T-72's Dolly Parton mixture would've been?
Or any other variant of T-72 composite?
>>28387042
>letting your wife lock up your bow cock
>spend your nights watching her get pumped full of APDS from Iron Duke IV.
>>28387187
I would check out the CIA reports in the dropbox (in the redux folder IIRC, don't know if OP has updated it recently), since they have explicit references to the dolly parton characteristics of the Russian armor.
>>28387609
Do you have a link to the folder?
>>28387615
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y4oultwtpsurrny/AAAF5YQlmMyQ7Ef6JcLRwqQua?dl=0
This is the dropbox that anon was talking about. I have updated it recently, but just minor shuffling of documents, nothing major.
>>28387644
Well that's comprehensive as fuck.
The last Tiger tank. Berlin 1945, no one is quite sure of the history of this vehicle before being pulled into the street, as it still has the early war wheels and cupola it is unlikely to be a front line tank pulled back. This pic clearly shows the Brandenburg Gate in the background.
>>28387773
This photo was taken from the other side, it looks like the corner of the Reichstag.
>>28387780
Comparative photo of the reichstag, the pillars and shape of the arch seems to match.
>Mobile Protected Firepower
>>28386275
>its armament including Ataka ATGMs, a 30 mm 2A72 autocannon and a 7.62 mm coaxial machinegun.
it also have a carrier for two RPO-M flamethrower( or Thermobaric grenade launcher in English) like the one on Webm related
they didn't include it in the news report but it was showed in the promote video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBC9BM4-3Ek
>>28387187
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/MBT/t-90_armor.html
>>28389360
What am I seeing in this webm? Is it a misfire?
>>28389944
telescopic launch tube
the inner tube automatic move forward when fire
many people mistook it for a misfire like you
>>28389360
>>28390109
?
whats the point of this
>>28390201
Probably to keep missile exhaust out of the face of the operator.
>>28390109
>>28389360
This must be triggering for people used to older launchers.
>>28390201
>>28390218
the rocket engine only burn while it is inside the tube so it won't throw jet into operator face
the longer launch tube give the rocket longer burn time, so more range
>>28390255
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQWyzk-N6ro
>>28386292
Happy New Year to everyone and their families and hope for a great 2016 !!
And contributing some Maus photos !!!
>>28390449
I'd scream like a little bitch too, are those things armed if they just plop out or do they need several high speed rotations to arm?
anyone know what happen to War gaming Maus project?
>>28390502
The amount of money required was far more than WG anticipated, the tank is nothing but a gutted shell now.
WG and the museum got a lot of backlash for wanting to restore a 'fascist' tank during a time of heightened Russian nationalism, combined with the propaganda machine painting Ukraine as run by fascists.
>>28390616
well, that is suck
they have money to run this thing but none for a fascist tank
>>28387108
Dog its an aussie tank, they JUST released the brit tank line and for aircraft, the boomerang is compressed into the the teashitter aircraft line so give them a bit. Itl be a teashitter premium in no time
>>28387126
>dat driver
Jesus Christ, they even sit on the wrong side of a tank
>Aussies needed to make sure the tank could handle the recoil of the 17lbr
>cram in 2 25lbr howitzers into the turret and fire them together
>recoil of the two guns exceeds that of the 17lbr, so therefore if the tank didn't rip off its own turret firing fucking twin-linked howitzers then no worries
Straya fuck yeah
Quick question, /thg/:
So I'm not sure what kind of tanks were used in Full Metal Jacket, but I saw this part and had to wonder, was there some sort of safety device to tell the driver that someone was using the phone on the back? Or did you just have to trust the guy driving wouldn't throw it in reverse?
>>28386265
Could do the IS-7
>>28391322
The tanks used in the film are M41 Walker Bulldogs.
There wasn't any mechanism that would tell the crew the phone was in use, although if the crew were having a conversation with infantry outside, I think it would be safe to assume that the tank wouldn't back up for as long as that conversation was taking place.
>>28386261
http://www.defence24.com/288110,polish-leopard-2-mbt-upgrade-contract-signed-polish-industrys-contribution-to-the-modernization-programme
>Modernization is related, above all, to increasing the armour’s ballistic resistance, through application of the solutions provided by the German IBD company, and to the process of improving the operational awareness of the crew, realized through implementation of the targeting devices for the commander and the gunner, along with a reversing camera. Moreover, the issue of security of the soldiers is significant – here I am referring to the fire protection and IED protection systems. Both in the engine, as well as in the crew compartment. Moreover, modernization of the cannon, so that it is capable of shooting the DM11 and DM63 ammunition is planned. (...) Weight of the tank after the modernization shall not exceed 60 tonnes. Obviously, numerous elements I do not want to mention also exist, within the scope of tailoring the systems which are going to be changed due to the changes of the tank construction itself, also when it comes to emergency exits, handles, attachments, rigidity of the drivetrain and the load-bearing wheels. These are only details.
>Head of the Polish Armament Inspectorate, Brig. General Adam Duda
>>28391349
That salt shaker muzzle brake though.
Bump. A lotta tank threads on /k/ today.
>>28386261
How do you guys think the Chi-Nu would have affected the war in the Pacific and or China if they would have started producing large numbers of them earlier in the war (say 41-42)
>>28393275
More challenging than other Japanese tanks, but still easier than a PzKpfw IV G/H/J
>>28386882
It's an armoured shroud for what I assume is a water cooled gun, either a Vickers or a Browning.
>>28390320
That's fucking magic.
>>28390663
Thing is, that tank they probably got reasonably intact, the Maus is nothing but armour, tracks, and a gun. There is NOTHING inside the engine compartment.
>>28393275
It would have given the Chinese a serious tank to capture, but the 75mm HE would have been nice against infantry.
In the Pacific though, these would either be exceedingly rare or not deployed at all, due to the Jap's lacking abilities to into amphibious landings, and the difficulty of landing large tanks without LVT/LST style ships.
>>28393275
The kind of war the Japanese were fighting didn't really require any tanks. That's why they didn't invest in them seriously.
The Chi-Nu would not have helped the Japanese as much as, say, more men, more time, and more supplies would have.
>>28393498
However, some of it could have been due to the fact that Russian light tanks such as BT-7s handed their collective asses to them at Khalkhin-Gol, so they responded by making their light and medium tanks on a level that could compete with the Soviet lights - of course, we know that by mid-WWII, the level of armor displayed by every the Soviets and Americans had changed drastically.
These two bastards spot each other in a town. Assuming both crews are similarly skilled and neither tank encounters engine problems (aside from getting shot at), who would win?
>>28395265
The Black Prince should win on paper.
>>28391099
Say that to my face you little bitch
>>28386816
Can we fucking ever
>>28395807
Its not like you made a bad choice.
>>28395265
The crew who spots first is usually the one who hits first.
The crew who hits first is usually the victor.
>>28395842
Still man being able to make your own tank is something
Y'know lately people are putting ATGMs on their tanks but why only now? They could have done that ages ago
>>28395979
No they aren't.
>>28387773
> as it [Tiger I] still has the early war wheels and cupola it is unlikely to be a front line tank pulled back.
That’s likely to be exactly what happened;
> be a Tiger I
> go to war
> sent back home for repairs
> go to war again
> repeat
> repeat again
> things are looking bad
> get sent to Berlin
> get wrecked by Russkies
>>28395940
We might be getting our own IFV, if Land 400 means anything.
>>28386275
>In Russia, Rosoboronexport, a subsidiary of the state owned enterprise Rostec, has announced plans to market its Uran-9 multipurpose UGV for export in 2016.
http://defense-update.com/20151231_russian-combat-robots.html
A different robot is the Mobile Autonomous Robotic System (MARS) – an infantry support platform able to carry six fully equipped soldiers or 500kg of combat load for a squad. Powered by a 65hp diesel engine that can also provide battery charging for the squad. The robot can travel up to 200km at a speed of 32 km/h using internal fuel, or 500km with external fuel tank. It is equipped with autonomous navigation system comprising laser scanners, radar and inertial measurement.
In development since 2010, the A800 model of MARS can be configured to follow a soldier wearing an active beacon. The control system is compatible with ‘Ratnik’, the Russian soldier system. The robot would follow the soldier while keeping a safe distance as it scans the terrain for obstacles and movement path, and plots its course of action. The robot can also move autonomously, on a specific track to a designated point or follow a preplanned path, to ‘revisit’ specific points of interest, on patrol, performing observation and target acquisition.
>>28390551
In case anybody missed it; that's a Tiger I turret assembly _on top_ of a Maus turret...
>>28391288
>Gee Irwin, why does your mum let you have two howitzers?
>>28387773
I remember when Fury was still a thing here there were a number of aspies having meltdowns over the Tiger in the movie being an early model. This makes it all the more amusing.
>>28392039
>>28393275
>How do you guys think the Chi-Nu would have affected the war in the Pacific and or China if they would have started producing large numbers of them earlier in the war (say 41-42)
The U.S. would have to divert X number of Shermans to the Pacific to deal with it and there might be faster development of the bazooka but with the island fighting in the Pacific being wholly dependent on sea power, the Jap tanks will eventually suffer the same fate as the rest of their forces; lack of supply.
If they can’t keep their infantry feed, they aren’t going to be able to ship in fuel, ammo and parts for tanks.
On the other hand, if the Japanese have sufficient effective medium tanks early on, they will be able to invade India, (though not hold it) causing more trouble for the already beleaguered Brits but as above, they’ll suffer the same eventual result.
Alt-historically, with a decent armored force, maybe some Japanese General in Manchuria pulls a Kolchak and sets up a Japanese government / army in exile, which the Soviets would have to take down, potentially resulting in the Soviets seizing Manchuria from China while keeping them out of Korea.
>>28396438
What's that UGV that was shown alongside the quad bike with a mannequin on it? The chassis looked like a kevlar mattress. This is a really weird and strangely specific question I realize.
What was hitting this? 50mm and 75mm?
>>28395265
>These two bastards spot each other in a town.
> Churchill Black Prince vs. Tiger I
With a 23mph top speed, the Tiger has a definite speed advantage over the Churchill’s glacially slow 11mph.
Aemro penetration of the German 88mm L/56 is on roughly par with the British 17pdr gun, but the Brits don’t have any HE rounds while the 88 throws a substantial HE load.
The Churchill has the frontal armor advantage, with 152mm vs. 100mm with the Tiger having 80mm side armor. Dunno what the Churchill has on the sides.
I'd bet on the Tiger I.
You anons might find this interesting. A turkish tank M48(?) takes a hit in the Kurdish city of Cizre then crashes into some houses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNN_o_hnPjg
>>28396942
Not saying they'd be smart about it, but if they were smart about it, the Japs could have gotten India to invade itself. Basically, work with the Indian independence movement and after kicking the Brits out, let the Indians do most of the fighting and dying. They did something similar in cooperating with the Thai monarchy to smack the French around.
>>28397030
If I had to guess? You're talking about the penetrating hits right? Probably an AA gun 88 mm or over - note that 75 mm AT weapons could not penetrate the KV-2 at point blank.
>>28397677
Are they not all penetrating? Could you circle them for me?
To me, they look small for 88mm but what do I know?
And should the Pz.III 75mm easily penetrate the turret from the side?
>>28395265
Whoever fires first.
IIRC the winner of ~80% of WWII tank engagements was that tank that fired first, regardless of type.
>>28397515
> They did something similar in cooperating with the Thai monarchy to smack the French around.
The Japanese might have been able to spark a scattered guerrilla war by some Indians against the British but Britain had held India for a long time, much longer then the French in Thailand and with much greater control over Indian society and for the most part, Indians were loyal to the UK. And most Indians felt independence from the UK was inevitable before too long anyways, so why screw it up now?
>>28397697
The Panzer 3 at that time used 37mm and short 50mm
Panzer 4 used short 75mm.
Both were unable to penetrate the KV-1 / KV-2 and the T-34 at normal range but could penetrate the T-34 at close range at the sides.
>>28397766
Exactly. The British had a functioning bureaucracy and governmental protocol in place staffed with a mix of British and handpicked Indian civil servants, which the Indians more or less took over wholesale after their independence.
Naturally, being Indians, once the British educated and technically proficient staff died out or retired, they completely fucked it up with incompetents, illiterates, people who could not speak the lingua franca, namely English, and basically gave the country a governmental equivalent of the poo in the loo meme.
Not tank related, so I'll also add that it's possibly the reason they took so many casualties in their immediate war with Pakistan.
>>28396438
So its a modern unmanned version of the Universal Carrier.
Not a bad idea, much better then Big Dog.
The germans must have at least thought that without air support these super heavy tanks they were building would have been easy targets, and a drain on resources above anything else
>>28398041
It was part of the wonderwaffen mentality that infected German designs later in the war. The fundamental problem was that the Allies were outproducing the Germans and winning on the battlefield, so unless something dramatically changed the battlefield Germany was doomed. The wonderwaffen projects were all attempts to find that game-changer, in practice they were almost all wastes of effort.
>>28395979
The US tried that years ago with the M551 Sheridan and the M60A2 Starship, both of those tanks could fire the MGM-51 Shillelagh missile but it was riddled with technical issues and it compromised the gun pretty badly. Didn't help that the US hadn't really tried that stuff before and Fords military development seemed to be full of ambition and short on development given they also shit out the Sergeant York which could be befuddled by a Porta-John vent fan.
>>28395979
they did it ages ago
>>28398041
Yes, they were, but Hitler was obsessed with bigger and bigger machines, probably stemming from his time in WW1, where he experienced first hand the war won by mechanized tanks.
Starting tank enthusiast from Finland here. We just bought a hundred Leo 2A6-tanks from the Netherlands for pennies.
Im just wondering, that how well could they fare against russian mbt's in battle.
Personally I think they could easyly wipe the floor with ruskies, since there is a shit ton of forrest everywhere, the land is really uneven and Finnish tank-crews are fighting from a defencive positions.
Someone educate me on why a 152mm ATGM coax is a bad idea
>>28398673
Because you can strap it to the top.
>>28398693
But then how does one reload it?
>>28398711
Why just fire the next one up there.
>>28386816
>>28398717
You mean a setup like the Bradleys?
But then how come no nation has incorporated it? Or am I just being retarded and ignorant of current tank designs?
>>28398539
why would the Ruskie want to invade Finland?
i thought you guys are good friend? you guy even using their 130mm gun.
and T-90A is Ruskie equivalent of the 2A6, but i don't know what are you arming your A6 with, so i think the Ruskie have the upper hand. And they also have more aircraft
>>28398735
A bit of both 120mm is good enough for killing tanks currently so there is no pressing need for it.
Some experiments are have been done on 105 and 120 ATGMs that can be fired through the gun and russia is entering a strap missiles every where phase after their 125 bore launched ones are believed buy some to be not enough.
>>28398732
>implying
>>28398539
> how well could they fare against russian mbt's in battle
All Russian MBTs have really damn good protection against radiation and nuclear fallout, so I doubt that they would be seriously harmed by burning wrecks, even if Giger is ticking really badly near them.
>>28398804
I sincerely doubt that a Russian war of aggression in the Baltic region and surrounds would seriously warrant an application of nuclear weapons.
>>28398735
There is gif or webm that shows how those single shot ATGMs are reloaded, basically there is hatch right behind the launcher, when missile is fired, new one is fed into the launcher rail from that hatch.
Why is the Jagdpanther such a sexy tank?
>>28386275
It's nice, but I don't think it's a good daily driver.
>>28398858
*destroyer
Sorry you triggered my autism. But it's cool nonetheless.
>>28398746
>why would the Ruskie want to invade Finland?
>i thought you guys are good friend?
>>28397964
>So its a modern unmanned version of the Universal Carrier.
More like a modern T-20 Komsomolets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komsomolets_armored_tractor
>>28398539
The Leopard 2A6 is compares well against the bulk of the Russian inventory. Due to budget issues the quality of Russian armor is highly variable, the T-90 is roughly equal in quality to the later Leopard 2 variants (amusing equally trained crews) but very few are fielded, roughly 400. The rest of Russian tanks are modernized T-72 variants and unmodernized T-72 variants, the modernized tanks are definitely inferior to the Leo 2A6 and the data from Ukraine suggests that the unmodernized tanks are only 1/3 as effective as the upgraded versions.
In short, 100 Leo 2A6 is good enough to bloody a Russia attack as it is now.
>>28395979
>Y'know lately
>They could have done that ages ago
>mfw this capitalist dog doesnt know about my missiles
>>28399186
implying Ruskie want a winter war 2.0 in the 21st century
>>28399194
I wouldn't be surprised if we cover our MBTs with same camouflage blanket as we did with our BMP-2s. Apparently it is pretty effective way to block fool optics.
Or we just cover the Leos with spruce sprances like always.
But question to fellow threadheads, the life of our MT-LBs is going to end in about 2030. Older vehicles will be probably turned into spare parts much earlier. What vehicle do you think we should acquire to replace it?
>>28399194
you forget that Ruskie have shit tons of anti tank vehicle and man portable ATGM
according to Ukraine field report T-90A is some what untounchale due to their soft kill APS and the unmodernized T-72B with Kontakt-5 is onpart with modern western tank( B3 is the equivalent of Leopard A4 and A5, older BA and B 1989 is some where down below)
>>28399239
what kind of camouflage blanket are you talking about?
SAAB MCS?
>What vehicle do you think we should acquire to replace it?
DT-30 Vityaz
>>28399194
>the T-90 is roughly equal in quality to the later Leopard 2 variants
>but very few are fielded, roughly 400.
This number includes the newer T-90 variants too? Legit question.
>>28399251
The problem I see with APS is that it doesn't help against Tungsten Rods of Doom or remove detonated IEDs. Against launchers it is pretty useful.
Didn't the study make the mistake on T-90s in Ukraine. I have only seen T-72B3s
>>28399276
Yep, I think it is Saabs product we are using.
Ehh, DT-30 really doesn't fit to role MT-LBs have.
>>28399278
there was some pics of the T-90A, but nobody give a fuck because it was from August last year and Putin is too busy bombing Kebab
APS like the Shtora detect laser signal form laser range finder
so it work with laser range finder on ATGM guidance module and tank laser range finder
the system warn the commander, so he can align the tank to withstand enemy fire
the "RED EYE " IR emitters seem to have some effect on active night vision and thermal camera
>>28399311
>The problem arises when in the 10 minutes its on the thermal signature of your tank it is visible again.
pic related
one have the MCS
one don't
>>28399278
>it doesn't help against Tungsten Rods of Doom
It does tho
It'll tilt the projectile and compromise penetration by a lot.
Maybe as much as half or more.
>>28399648
I stand corrected. Had a strange idea on my mind that the blast from APS is not strong enough to weaken Rods. Still it does not destroy the rod so it still inflicts damage on tank.
Also Engie deleting his post when proven wrong made my day.
>>28399648
Got some sauce for that?
I've never seen an APS shoot down a KE penetrator, only rockets and ATGM.
>>28399964
No I can't find the report I read.
>>28399964
I haven't seen any videos of APS hitting APFSDS, but maybe thats more classified or whatever.
They are certainly capable of intercepting projectiles moving that fast.
>>28399738
>when proven wrong
>Grammatical error vs actually being proven wrong
>implying I was arguing with anyone, and not explaining how something works
The problem arises [when using any kind of visual or thermal camoflauge] when in the 10 minutes your tank is operating you're visible on the thermals again.
Its rare that a tank would use day sites, Thermals would pick you just as easily if you didn't have said camo. This was literally covered in the last /thg/ thread. Or one of the many MBT bait threads that goes through /k/ every 6 hours.
>>28387644
hey, I have got a few "Panzer Tracts" PDFs I could add to that collection.
Interested in those?
>>28400715
PzKpfw IV?
>>28400941
Those are all I have found on the internet.
>>28397207
>taking HE into account
>picking the Tiger I even though its armour is thinner and its gun is no better
>>28397677
>75mm AT guns could not penetetrate the KV-2 at point blank range.
Objectively false.
You're thinking of the stubby 75mm's on Panzer IV's.
>>28397872
>people who couldn't speak English
Show me an Indian government official/bureaucrat who can't speak English, go on, I'll wait.
They all do.
>>28400158
http://www.army.mil/article/131663/MRD__ABOLC__SAAB_test_tank_camo_system/
>I've actually viewed the system through our various thermal systems on the tanks and at 200 meters in the brush here, tanks using this system are completely gone thermally," Moore said. "We can't see it. We can see little hotspots here and there, but it doesn't look like a tank. It's very difficult to make out."
>"The other MCS tank actually came into our objective where we were on defense," Moore said. "Our tank commander and gunner were both looking through the thermals, and that tank was less than 200 meters away. They had eyes on us because their tank commander was up top scanning visually and their gunner was using day sights, but they didn't see us until they were right on us."
>"I saw a couple of little hotspots, but I couldn't tell what they were. That's kind of the idea behind this system. It doesn't completely eliminate the thermal signature, but it reduces and alters it to make it not look like a tank."
>>28401649
>http://www.army.mil/article/131663/MRD__ABOLC__SAAB_test_tank_camo_system/
>Abolc
well there's your problem.
>>28401741
your lack of actual refutation is telling
>>28401741
Explain to me why ABOLC makes the article suddenly worthless. I presume that Instructors there know what they are doing and if SAAB is cooperating with them, the instructors organize everything.
>>28398858
>Why is the Jagdpanther such a sexy tank?
Official ranking of the most badass looking armor in history:
1) Jagdtiger
2)Jagdpanther
3)Tiger I
4)?
Also here is a nice collection of the pictures taken during the construction of that replica Tiger the Russians build a while back
http://izismile.com/2012/02/14/handcrafted_tiger_i_tank_replica_69_pics_1_video.html
guys, what's up with the weird muzzle devices on the M42 duster?
Come to think of it, it seems like a lot of SPAAGs have weird muzzle devices
>>28393203
It's a sign the holiday shitposting is waning.
>>28402656
Flash suppressor?
>>28402669
But most of them are blatant bait threads.
>>28402656
They measure muzzle velocity for the targeting computer.
>>28402085
That's a great build, far better than the rubbish seen in many decent films when they convert a T-34 (Saving Private Ryan) or T-55 (White Tiger).
The Jagdpanther is an impressive beast to see in person, a sheer slab of metal. The Bovington one is complete, the one at the Imperial War Museum has holes cut in the side for God knows what reason. What a shame.
>>28402936
That makes a lot of sense. I didn't think that targeting computers cared about muzzle flash anyways.
>>28402936
>>28402988
>targeting computer
>M42 Duster
What caused this damage?
>>28403046
>targeting computer?
Use the Force Luke!
>>28403046
Then what the hell are the funky muzzle devices for?
>>28402941
hahahaha holy shit that image
>meanwhile_at_taurus.jpg
>>28403056
Looks like 30mmm holes, probably a-10
Sork here (well, living abroad). How well trained are Korean tankers in your eyes? I know most US soldiers stationed here think that most conscripts besides the KATUSA guys can barely be trusted with a rifle, and I know personally that while the arty arm has cool tech they're pretty terrible at rapid response and counterbattery stuff. IMO only the Korean marines are professional at all, but they're real Col Kilgore type war crime motherfuckers.
>>28403168
I do hope that's a joke comrade.
>>28403185
If you think, even for an instance, that that wasn't a joke, then I feel very sorry for you.
>>28403185
>I am certainly hopings you are of joking comrade
>>28403323
Considering what I see posted on /k/ every day, I think it's understandable.
>>28403323
But then it wouldn't even be a joke you insurmountable pile of shit.
>>28403350
Be paranoid, be paranoid as fuck.
>>28403361
>>28387773
>>28387780
I'm quite certain that this was the last tank of Panzer-Division Müncheberg when it was abandoned by it's crew.
>>28403185
>>28403323
>>28403350
>>28403361
>>28403373
I hate it when Mom and Dad fight!
>>28403046
It's just a normal muzzle brake, geared more for the purpose of deflecting concussive blasts from the crew when firing than hiding the flash.
>>28391349
>SS.11 missiles with penetration of 600mm RHA and 500-3000m effective range triggered Khrushchev enough to scrap entire heavy tank program
wonder where they would be by 80's
>>28395265
better ergonomics give Tiger better chance to fire first, and in case both sides fail to achieve kill with first shot, pretty much guarantee faster second shot.
Altough realisticly, both crews will care more about getting out of sight, than scoring a kill.
>>28397677
not all KV-2s were destroyed during Barbarossa, before long 75mm entered service.
>>28403391
>be a faggit
>hurrd damage control
>>28401582
when both are likely to penetrate, it rolls down to who will acquire and fire first. And luck.
>>28403350
>>28403361
>>28403373
>>28403391
>>28403749
keep your shit out of /thg/ threads
>>28401872
>lack of actual refutation
>posts a link to a training study done with people who have been in the army for 3 minutes
>because a brand new butterbar's opinion on something is somehow relevant.
>not knowing what ABOLC is
sure
>>28402941
White Tiger was an IS-2, not a T-55.
>>28403998
>attacking the source because you cannot refute what was said
>>28402085
beautifull work on the suspation
>>28402941
>>28404056
always thought it was suposed to be a tiger p representation, not the regular tiger h
>>28404420
It's hard to know what they wanted it to be.
>>28404523
Most tragic thing about that flick is that they had probably the best made-for-cinema Tiger clone ever seen (pictured here), and then decided to opt for the fuckawful IS-2 job seen in the production release after it had some engine trouble. Considering the end result, I really think they should have just fucking waited. What we got in its place is so bad it actually takes away from the movie.
>>28404569
As far as replicas built upon other tanks, T-44s and T-54/5s have the least "off" proportions. Pic related is a T-44 Tiger from the late 60s/early 70s "LIBERATION" series of films.
>>28404644
It's hard to beat what Western cinema gave us during the Cold War in terms of shitty Tiger depictions. At least Kelly's Heroes made a fucking effort with the T-34 job.
>>28404701
Yeah. To be fair, the M47s turret has a similar shape to the Tiger 2's.
The first time I saw pic related, I thought it was a screencap from the 1965 film! The Tiger 2's have same paint scheme, the stereoscopic rangefinders, and one even has the Patton style running gear.
>>28404701
back then they operated with what they had, and to be fair, not many people knew how these tanks should look like.
But damn, modern CG gives some hopes for future movies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uER5TJcCH4
clip mixes scenes from various movies, but ones from "Bloody Foreigners" clearly could not be done with traditional methods
on related topic: was Tiger in Fury a mockup, or they made it using CG?
>>28404701
Pattons for King Tigers and Chaffees fir Shermans. They didn't care and I don't think audiences were particularly discerning. It was a breath of fresh air when they had that T34-Tiger in Saving Private Ryan and even that looks a bit rubbish now.
>>28404859
The Tiger in Fury was wheeled straight out of Bovington.
>>28404859
Fury did use the real Tiger 131 at least partly.
As for Battle of the Bulge, tanks were the least of it's problems. The Ardennes Forest's worst winter in decades, was filmed in the hot deserts of Spain.
>>28404859
>>28404883
This anon is correct. It was one of the last operational Tigers left in the world and was used in the film.
>Fun fact,Michael Peña actually drove that Sherman in the film, had to go through a course to do it.
>>28404883
>>28404893
>Tiger 131
holy shit!
>>28404765
Was still the laziest shit I've ever seen.
>>28404859
Tiger in Fury was an actual one, 131 out from Bovington.
>>28404878
The Tiger in SPR was on par with the three in Kelly's Heroes. In fact, I think the Tiger in SPR was also the one seen in Band of Brothers.
>>28404893
I was easily impressed when it came to WWII movies as a tween, but that move still managed to turn me off with its hilariously off attempts. They didn't even try in Battle of the Bulge.
>some bit about rail-hauled naval cannons making their way to the front to turn the tide
>spend about five fucking minutes showing a POV shot of a train racing through some mountains at about 100mph with electric wiring overhead...for a steam train
>train just gets skullfucked in a tunnel by "Tigers", making the whole ordeal a pointless waste of screentime
>>28404961
One weird thing of Battle of the Bulge's sets: the driving controls of the "Tigers" were depicted as the typical two stick system...real Tiger uses a steering wheel. The weird part? M47 doesn't use two sticks either! M47 uses a single joystick that also functions as gear shift.
>>28404961
Try some of the more foreign films when it comes to WWII.
Stalingrad is a definite staple, but some of the Russian blockbusters are pretty good, as while they rip off hollywood pretty hard with all the heroics and cliches and so on, they get to use period appropriate ex-Soviet gear.
What I'm really sad about, is the complete lack of historical accuracy regarding WWI - I mean, after all these years, fucking Blackadder remains the most accurate representation of the trenches in modern media. I wouldn't mind if someone remade Paths of Glory or some of the other period films.
>>28404994
If there were historical and technical advisers on set, I'm sure they suckstarted the closest available firearm after the first month of shooting.
>>28404961
Band of Brothers has a few mock ups, a Jagdpanther was one. The SPR Tiger is in Duxford museum now, it's much smaller compared to the real thing, which has a great physical presence.
Dead Snow 2 has a Tiger Tank made from a T-54 or 55, not bad effort for a budget horror film.
>>28405026
>Producer claiming that these "really were" the vehicles fighting that battle, in an interview on the dvd
Ok man, just cause there were two M24s in the Ardennes....
>>28405001
Long winded soviet war series 'Liberation' supposedly has tank action and good war scenes. But I'm not aware of a western release with English dub/subtitles.
>>28405049
Topleft is from "Liberation," I've seen a few documentaries change it to black and white, like your pic, and try to pass it off as real. (Some scenes were B&W, but not the ones those docs use)
I grinned a bit at Dead Snow 2's SPR reference (Tiger slamming down over pile of rubble, troops following in the dust)
>>28405083
They've officially put it on youtube with subtitles. The first film, linked, has the most tank action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcekvQeHS6o
>>28405049
They did a fantastic Stug job on an FV432, all things considered.
>>28405057
There is no cocksmacking way that there weren't some Shermans sitting around collecting dust in W. Europe at that time, and I wonder if he even made an effort to nab any.
>>28405136
Forgot pic.
>>28405153
Didn't it also appear in Mr Bean's Holiday?
>>28405001
>they get to use period appropriate ex-Soviet gear.
I'm not even suprised, considering T-34s remained in service until 70's, and plenty of WW2 tanks and assault guns have beign put on monuments without beign properly deactivated, with fully working engines and drivetrains. I recall even some WW2 tanks have been used in Ukraine by Seps, before Russia provided them with modern tanks
>>28405172
I loved that scene for some reason
>>28405203
Ruskies even have vintage lend lease stuff hanging around somewhere, like the Boston Bomber or M3s.
>>28405211
A WW2 scene for a yogurt commercial, wasn't it?
>>28405309
Yep. And the part where it rolled over Bean's bike
>>28405309
I can only find part of that scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AXvsXPS8HM
>>28405123
Wow! I'm going to try that, cheers!
>>28405412
The subtitles are kinda out of sync near the end but it's not too bad
IS-2 vs Tiger, list advantages of each!
>>28406099
Tiger
>better mobility
>better optics
>better at penetrating IS-2 armor
>a lot shorter reload time
>more comfy to drive around in, so the crew is happier
IS-2
>better protected
>less likely to break down on the way in
>FAR less comfy to around in so the crew is ANGRIER
>122mm High explosive DOESN'T NEED TO PENETRATE TIGER ARMOR IT WILL SEND THE TURRET FLYING ANYWAY
The conclusion:
Were not meant to fight each other, so that barely ever happened.
>>28406244
Zaloga states that the IS-2 was "relatively spacious" for soviet tanks, though that's not saying much. Also says it was often put where German concentration was weakest anyway.
>>28406283
>says it was often put where German concentration was weakest anyway
As Brusilov taught us: "Where it's thin is where it tears!"
>>28406099
There's advantages to both!
Does IS-2 have any belly hatches for the driver to go through? Otherwise it looks like he has to go through the turret, and that's not a good thing when your ammo's burning...
>>28406306
Tank concentration specifically, I forgot to add.
>>28406375
Yes there's an escape hatch in the floor.
The IS-2 was built without a driver's hatch deliberately rather than an oversight. The large hatch in the front glacis on the T-34 is a structural weakness for the entire front armor plate, so that wasn't considered. On the KV, there are hatches on the roof of the hull, similar to German tanks of the period. The IS-1/2 are derived from the KV, so this would be the logical place to put them - however, the very large turret is placed quite far forward, so there's literally no roof space there. As soon as the hull slopes up, turret starts.
Of course, this did also make evacuating out of the turret easier for the driver, since all he has to do is climb over the back of his chair and then he's literally inside the turret.
In any event, the IS-3 has a driver's hatch again, so obviously that was preferable to the above.
>>28406732
Still, having to got hrough the turret is always dangerous. Shermans and Pershigns arguably has the easiest driver escapes, a large hatch directly above. T-34s hatch required a bit of contortion, and Tiger's hatches were offset. Plus the US tanks had them spring loaded.
>>28407003
The part that's more dangerous on the IS-2 is that the driver is literally sandwiched by fuel tanks, IMO. If the front hull is penetrated by something, either you get raped by shrapnel and spalling or soaked in burning diesel.
Note here the lack of a turret basket, actually helpful in this case.
>>28402085
>Tiger I
>literally a box on treads
n-no thanks
Jagdpanther is cool as hell though
>>28407127
Yeah, the propellant cases were mostly stored in the hull floor, with the warheads in turret bustle. Wonder if that setup was less likely to detonate than one-piece rounds in the turret.
Yeah, that fuel tank setup is rather questionable. But most tank fires are due to ammo, not fuel, so I guess the Soviets figured it was an acceptable tradeoff.
>>28407268
They used two-piece ammunition in the IS-2 because it was the same ammunition used in the A-19 field gun. As far as I'm aware it was done for ammunition commonality and that's about it.
There was an experimental version of the D-25 installed in a T-44 where they used single-piece ammunition but evidently it was not pursued any further than that.
>>28407328
There's some documents experimenting with single piece shells in IS-2 and ISU-122, but actually reduced rate of fire, and in the case of IS-2, reduced ammo magazine as well. (To 27 rounds]
boo!
>>28407514
Not real
Not real
Not real
>>28407514
Tanks? What tanks? These are agricultural tractors......really big ones....
>>28399251
>according to Ukraine field report T-90A is some what untounchale
that report was fake as shit.
>>28407127
>If the front hull is penetrated by something, either you get raped by shrapnel and spalling or soaked in burning diesel.
Actually...
1) Diesel is really hard to ignite. It's unlikely that a penetrating round would set it off.
2) Diesel, being a liquid, is quite dense and thus actually makes excellent armor against spalling and HEAT rounds.
These two qualities are the reason why they put the fuel tanks where they did.
Pretty much all modern AFV's also use their fuel tanks as armor; the Leclerc, for example, actually has a special auxiliary tank in the front of the hull, under the glacis, to serve as an additional layer to protect the driver.
>>28403056
>What caused this damage?
My first thought was 20mm but now I'm guessing a captured .50BMG.
>>28408150
.50BMG can't go through the side of a sherman senpai
>>28408150
fiddy cal cant penetrate the shermans side armor.
20mm can
>>28408020
>BUT MUH FUEL TANKS OF DEATH.
>>28408189
>SHERMANS BURNED IF YOU FLICKED A MATCH WRONG eventhoughgermansweregaspoweredtoo
>>28407932
>that report was fake as shit.
Explain
>>28404859
>back then they operated with what they had, and to be fair, not many people knew how these tanks should look like.
I'd suggest the opposite was the case; many of the production crew and the viewers back then were WWII veterans and would have instantly known those ain't Tigers.
M48s and whatnot were used simply to save money on the production.
>>28408389
To be fair to the WWII vets, especially those on the Western Front in Europe, the Tiger was a boogeyman more than an actual opponent. US force encountered 3 Tigers in western Europe for example.
>>28408170
>>28408175
I don't see any penetrations, I see cratering, which both the .50 and 20mm would have done.
>>28408509
>the Tiger was a boogeyman more than an actual opponent.
Plenty of Tigers were encountered during the war and as there were hundreds of thousands of Americans stomping around Europe during WWII, even if they had never personally fought against a Tiger, they would have seen the wrecks scattered across the countryside.
The M48s (and crews) used in "Patton" were borrowed from the Spanish Army and were used because they could be had for cheep.
>>28408298
Russia's army playing a role in the conflict goes against his worldview that the separatists are just local people who bought brand new Russian equipment from local shops.
Image related, a buildup of Russian forces on the border which suddenly disappears right before Ukrainians are hit with a fresh unknown force.
>>28408170
They didn't have SLAP rounds in 1940
>>28408719
>Plenty of Tigers were encountered during the war
Depends on who you are talking about, there are only 3 recorded incidents when American force ran into them.
>>28408908
> there are only 3 recorded incidents when American force ran into them.
No, the U.S. fought the German 504th Heavy Tank Bn (Tiger I) in North Africa in 1942 and would continue to encounter Tigers (and later in the war, Panthers) in Sicily, Italy, France and Germany.
>>28404926
Some even complained about its use. About it being an early-war model.
>>28409071
You can't win against autism
>>28408020
This, people really need to know the basics here, because this pops up every time there's a "BMP fuel tank doors of death" bait thread.
>>28409044
Cite the incidents where Tigers fought American forces.
>>28408806
>believe ukraine gorverment report
>>28409247
You have no idea what is being talked about do you?
Just how effective were these?
>>28409270
There are still vatniks around that seriously think that the T-72B3 was not spotted in ukraine.
But those usually got poor english and appear on youtube comment section.
>>28404569
>>28402941
Wait, I thought the Tiger in that movie was CG, it didn't look real
