.40 S&W
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
What's your opinion on the .40? It seems cool to me, almost the same capacity as a 9mm but bigger and not as big as a .45. That's good right?
>>30651863
It's alright, if you want something that has more power than 9mm yet more capacity than .45 thats a good choice.
Yeah its a great and versatile cartridge that can penetrate car doors much better than 9mm.l
>>30651863
Just get a .45 and stop pretending to be a gay.
>>30651863
The biggest complaint is that some people and new shooters find it snappy
I've never shot it, but it can't be anymore snappy than .357 mag
>Also inb4 the hottest 9mm is comparable to the lowest .40
get .357 sig or 10mm instead
.40 is just 10mm for women
>>30651863
Here's the thing. Modern bullet design has improved so much that old compromises are no longer necessary.
9mm +p rounds penetrate barriers just fine, expand fantastically, and you can still hold more than .40 with lighter recoil which means faster follow up shots. They all perform about the same and handguns suck for anything but fighting to your rifle anyways so might as well get more capacity.
The size difference between 9mm, .40, and .45 make no difference in performance.
All pistol cartridges are the same. If it "seems cool" to you, and you like a gun chambered in it, then buy it. Don't delude yourself into thinking you're getting a stronger bullet though.
The real con to .40 is that it is more expensive than 9mm.
>>30651933
>The size difference between 9mm, .40, and .45 make no difference in performance.
I hope no one depends on you for firearm knowledge.
Don't listen to the 9mm autists. Bullet power is always going to be a gradient.
>>30651928
Why would I want 9mm +p if I can just get .40 +p?
>>30651962
Because its lighter recoiling, less expensive, offers greater capacity, and gives you equal performance through barriers and in flesh.
>>30651943
buthe'srightyouknow.jpg
Unless you're competing in USPSA (in which case, do .40), just do 9mm.
>>30651962
>.40+p
You mean 10mm.
>>30651943
Oh look, the 10mm niggers are already here
Tell me more about how much of a special snowflake you are and how unique and different you gun makes you
Or are you one of those people that don't even carry because your full size 1911 can't risk being scratched?
if 9mm is so good why are 9mm users so insecure about their choice of ammo
10mm is better than .40 in terms of power alone. In terms of practicality and availability (along with cost) .40 schools 10mm every time.
>>30651987
You got really worked up over that remark.
Here's the thing - I speak from decades of experience - not garbage opines posted online or written in magazines. Ten years in the Infantry, another ten years doing contract security. I've fired more rounds than I've eaten calories of food.
There is a major difference in performance between 9mm and .45 cal.
>>30652027
>Thinks decades of experience as grunt infantry and security makes his anecdotal experience of paper target plinking mean more than FBI testing data.
>>30652061
>anecdotal
Far from it, hot rod. Do you think the FBI uses robots to execute and collect data?
>>30651863
>The power of a 9mm
>The capacity of a .45
>The recoil of a 10mm
It has nothing going for it.If the FBI had realized they didn't need to develop a new bullet to go through walls and shit it wouldn't exist, and it doesn't do its one job which is why its being fazed out.They could have gone with 10mm but the women couldn't handle it (literally, their women agents couldn't handle the recoil, which while strong, isn't some .500 bullshit) and so they shortened it and weakened it to make .40 S&W, which gained the name of .40 Short and Weak by it's detractors.This is from a slightly biased POV so take that as you will.
>>30652072
I get that you're emotionally invested in this caliber, but you can't argue the facts.
>>30652099
>FBI had realized they didn't need to develop a new bullet to go through walls and shit it wouldn't exist
They didn't come up with it. S&W did that and sold the idea to them
S&W did to the FBI what Mark Cuban did to Yahoo.
>>30652119
Facts? I am the facts.
>>30652130
I always heard it was the FBI that asked for it.Never trust what you read on /k/.
>I can't trust your post
>>30652130
FBI asked for a weaker 10mm loading which they received and were happy with
s&w made .40 after the fact
>>30652144
>Facts? I am the facts
>>30652163
>>30652169
>You will never create a proprietary cartridge to milk juicy government contracts that will eventually only be used by fudds and glawk fortay problem solvers that are not even .40s&w
>>30651962
There's no such thing as .40 +p.
.40 is already an over pressured cartridge anyway since it's a shortened 10mm
>9mm can penetrate 12+ inches
>overwhelming evidence points to handgun rounds only killing by physical dislocation of material to vital organs
9mm is just as effective as .40, .45, and 10mm against human targets.
>>30652287
.32 FMJ can penetrate 12+ inches
>>30652306
>+P
Fixed.
>>30652306
>penetrate 12+ inches
Of marshmallows.
>>30652306
Of empty apace, maybe.
>>30652322
>>30652323
.25 acp FMJ penetrates 14 inches in ballistics gel
7.62x25mm MASTER RACE
God Tier Penetration!
>>30652240
What is this shit then?
I'm genuinely asking.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/533458/buffalo-bore-ammunition-40-s-and-w-p-155-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20
>>30652357
marketing. If they really over loaded .40 than its liable to be dangerous.
ITT faggots who do not understand terminal ballistics
t. DocGKR
>>30651987
dude, 10mm was parent cartridge for .40 short and weak
that makes .40 the special snow flake
>>30651885
But that's even weaker then 9mm and .40 since it's slower then both, and this comin from a guy who first bought a glock 30s cuz I believed in stopping power and finally settled on a glock 19.
>>30652226
Not him but now I feel very enlightened now that I got a glock 19 instead of a 23. When I was 16 and didn't know shit.
I always said why the fuck would people buy a glock 19 and not a glock 23 it doesn't make sense not to have a bigger stronger bullet.
Now my main carry is a glock 19 and if ever need stoping power my .357 mag in .125 gr will do just that.
>>30651882
>Yeah its a great and versatile cartridge that can penetrate car doors much better than 9mm.
This is a retarded strawman. "Barriers" doesn't mean car doors. There are barriers inside your body that cover some of your vital organs. They're called bones.
>>30651863
All the major service calibers are good for different reasons. Anybody who says that .40 or .45 is "inferior" to 9mm due to the reduced capacity is willfully ignorant, the same way a person saying that 9mm is bad because it's so weak doesn't know what he's talking about. Yes, 9mm hollow point bullet design has improved over the years, but you're kidding yourself if you think the same technology isn't used on .40 and .45 bullets too. Final expanded bullet diameter does not mean what you think it means. Hollow point bullets are designed to expand after a certain distance traveled in the body and they're designed to stop after a certain distance as well. A wide bullet traveling through the body isn't doing much if it lacks velocity or momentum. Pretending that penetration in bare gel equates with damage dealt to a body is idiocy.
>9mm
>pros:
Highest capacity, lightest weight across comparable service weapons
Quietest suppressed , when shooting subsonic loadings
Easy for lady officers to shoot, due to low recoil
>cons
Weakest service caliber, has difficulty penetrating Carhartt jackets, overall poor penetration through other barriers such as human bones
>.40S&W
>pros:
Best penetration, due to heavy bullet traveling at supersonic velocity
Very good capacity
>cons:
Not subsonic, hard to suppress
Slightly less capacity than 9mm, although by only 1-2 rounds, depending on the firearm
Faggots believe that it's "snappy," although lady officers at the FBI used it for years before they allowed "transgenders" into the force
$1-2 more, per box of ammo, than 9mm
>.45 ACP
>pros:
Does great at penetrating barriers
Easy to suppress, and can plink with suppressed, since all ammo is subsonic
Can be extremely powerful in +P, .45 Super and .460 Rowland loadings/conversions
>cons:
Worst capacity out of the three, by 3 to as much as 7 rounds less than 9mm, for comparably sized weapons
Regular ammo prices are almost 2x more than 9mm, although it can be found on sale for less
>>30652942
No it's not it's actually one of the reasons why pigs use them still, if not they would use 9mm instead.
>>30653011
Do you also believe that magazine springs wear out when you leave them loaded? Go take this uneducated drivel to /r/guns.
>>30653020
No that's fucking retarded, if what u said ment any truth then the army would all switch from 9mm to 40 cal, and so dont start the whole sidearms are only used as last resort or decoration bit, you'd still be missing the point.
>>30652996
I'm with this anon.
>>30653047
>insulting vitriol
>contentless if-then statement
>off-topic rant about firearm use
Not an argument.
I was recently watching this video on the FK BRNO pistol. They get it. Barriers means bones. Why don't you get it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mymewEQiQhY
>>30653090
This is literally the first time in my whole life of browsing forums and /k/ I ever herd barriers being used as bones and not car doors, or just any type of cover that someone can hide behind.
>>30653126
How is that an argument?
>>30653148
I'm saying either ur wrong or this is new news to me.
>>30651863
The United States Secret Service uses the .357 Sig as do Federal Air Marshals. On the state side, if you include state police and highway patrol organizations, you’ll find .357 Sig cartridges in use in North Carolina, Texas, Mississippi, Delaware, Montana, Rhode Island, Virginia, Tennessee and New Mexico. You might also be interested to know that the Orlando Police Department relies on .357 Sig to protect the perimeter of one of our most important national assets – Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride at Disney World.
.357 Sig master race.
I wish I had one, I wonder how much the ammo costs?
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/7-things-know-357-sig-sort/
>>30653090
nice, that's like a .357 magnum that 7.5FK
>>30653161
Don't make me repeat myself.
>>30652996
The Carhartt 9mm claim is a myth, most likely caused by NYPD's 20lb triggers causing them to miss. See below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4FqEEgq9eA
>>30653178
>thetruthaboutguns
>reliable source about anything
These guys literally just publish articles so they can stay in Google's top sites list.
>>30653190
What? It's not even TTAG.
>>30653161
>ur
This isn't high school texting, kid.
>>30653190
It's a video of 9mm penetrating both sides of a Carhartt.
>>30653163
.357 mag I could understand but .357 sig convinces me they're pandering to the fairer sex.
>>30653207
Yes, it is.
>>30653224
most departments that choose .357 sig do so for shooting into vehicles
>>30653224
No way dude, .357 Sig has damn good numbers.
Let's compare some gel tests, brb jewtube
>>30653230
>"These guys literally just publish articles"
>posts video of Carhartt being shot with 9mm
He claimed a Carhartt deflected 9mm. There's a video showing the exact opposite with every possible variation. The channel's Shootingthebull410, is he associated with TTAG?
>>30653243
.357 Sig is the one caliber I truly don't understand.
>bullet weight of a midsize 9mm
>capacity of .40S&W
>lots of muzzle flash to blind officers at night
>recoil is OK, though
What's the appeal to choose this over .40S&W? Just the reduced recoil?
>>30653259
Obviously it wasn't every possible variation, since he didn't recreate the exact situation that happened in NYC not too long ago.
>The channel's Shootingthebull410, is he associated with TTAG?
Yes.
>>30653243
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G16a3ajHtCE&list=PLef9xuYbtGF4CehXt7JpKS5eib2IAHUzj
.357 sig vs 10mm
>>30653243
gel tests are bullshit they only show how far a bullet penetrates gel.
>>30653266
Velocity.
Bottlenecked pistol cartridge bro.
Velocity with good bullet design can fuck some shit up.
>>30653293
Just summarize the goddamn video. I don't feel like watching some redneck shoot gelatin at 2 in the morning.
>>30653279
A 22LR derringer had full pass-through of the coat. Unless the perp decided to toss some AR500 in the lining, there's a much simpler explanation.
>>30653296
see here for barrier pen >>30653293
>>30653302
Explain.
>>30653296
You can actually design bullets that only perform well in gel too.
Leigh and RIP are the perfect examples of this. Neither do anything close in pork shoulders than they do in gel tests.
>>30653307
10mm fucks up bricks better than .357 sig, no real difference in penetration though
>>30653315
like 5.56x45 M193 from an 18 inch barrel will penetrate level 3 steel plates from 25 meters or so
also fragmentation
>>30653340
exactly gel test are bullshit
>>30653315
Oh, and the extra kinetic energy, assuming it imparts properly thanks to the bullet design.
>>30653340
Whaa? RIP fails gel tests all the time. I've never seen a test where RIP didn't varmint round and fail to penetrate.
>>30653266
Flatter fly and longer range due to velocity. Is like if you shoot someone at 25y with a .357sig is like you are shooting him at 15y with a 9mm...
Also, it replicates the most famous man stopper .357 magnum round.
Algo, bottleneck means a slightly improved feed reliability.
>>30651933
For range ammo the price difference is less than 5 cents a round between 9mm and 40. Any of the self defense ammo from a respected vendor is all the same price regardless of caliber.
>>30653934
.40 is a better stopper than .357 mag. .40 creates a bigger hole and it penetrates farther and double the capacity isn't such a bad thing either.
>>30652351
I dont know why the ruskies ever went to 9x18. Using the same diameter as rifles even let them use old nugget barrels to make PPSH's,
.40 is for people who are too pussy for 10mm
.45 ACP is God's pistol cartridge
>>30656466
lol, not really
>>30651987
>What is the glock 20/40
>what is the tanfoglio force compact/witness
>what is the sig p220
Blow it out your ass
10mm guns are becoming easier to find, more popular than ever, and cheaper as time goes on
Meanwhile, all 3 letter organizations that had used .40short and weak dropped it like a hot brick after reports of glocks chambered in .40sw were going boom in hand (this is where the glocknade meme comes from), no new pistols are being made for the round, it keeps rising in price while 9mm lowers, even USPSA is getting more 10mm entries now than .40sw
Its a meme round in every sense of the word. It had it's day in the 90's, but now theres no reason to buy a gun chambered in it.
>>30656485
maybe if you are a doughboy from WW1
>>30656489
It has to be hard to be this full of shit, at least get the chronology of your made up facts right before you shit up threads
>>30656489
Blow it out your own ass dip shit. 10mm has had 25 years to become poplular, and I am saying this as a 10mm fan. The glocknade is also about 20 years old, get with it grandpa.
The only working difference between 10mm and 40 is about two inches of penetration. 40 can be found anywhere and be purchased by the case for essentially the same price as 9mm. Ive never seen 10mm at walmart or fleet farm, its only purchased online at a dollar a round and still loaded to 40 spec.
>>30652996
>Does great at penetrating barriers
>45 is the worst at this, .40 is way better at penetrating barriers.
>>30656233
>>30653934
>.40SW is like .357magnum!
how does it feel to be laughed at by people who know what theyre talking about?
.40SW has the same ballistics as a 9mm and basically does no more damage than it. It only flies farther because its an over loaded cartridge holding a smaller bullet
10mm is the only thing that matches .357, .40SW is an overblown 9mm
>>30653934
>Also, it replicates the most famous man stopper .357 magnum round.
It does not replicate .357 magnum. 125gr .357 mag goes 1800FPS where as 357 Sig only goes 1400.
>>30656802
230 grain bullets are inherently better than 115 grain bullets at penetrating barriers.
>>30656851
>.40SW has the same ballistics as a 9mm and basically does no more damage than it.
>This is what .40 haters actually believe.
.40 penetrates more, and leaves a larger wound channel. It also penetrates hard bone and barriers better.
>>30656883
>.357 mag goes 1800FPS
Yeah, out of a rifle. You're not getting anywhere over 1400 fps out of a 4" revolver.
>>30656603
10mm is surging
.40 is dying
.40 should never have happened, its an abomination
If the G20SF existed then the FBI would still be using 10mm
t. CC's a 10mm
>>30656890
Thats not what the army said back in the 80s friendo. Also who the fuck use 115gr besides NAZI germany? Don't compare light for caliber with heavy for caliber and expected to be taken seriously.
its a good round, proven manstopper. better than 9 and 45
>>30656908
Yes you are, 125gr goes 1800 FPS, 154 goes 1400, out of a service revolver.
>>30656851
What the fuck are you talking about, the only one being laughed at is you. Learn how to ballistics.
>>30656603
>20 years to get popular
and it did?
>.40sw can be found everywhere and bought for cheap
thats because nobody with a brain wants it, and theres still a ton of it left. also they wont stop making cheap .40 because they know idiots like you are still out there buying it
>glocknade is 20 years old
and yet its still relevant, since you can count how many departments still use .40sw by hand
>cant find it at my local walmart
why are you not buying online where its cheaper? they even have your meme round for cheaper online
>>30656486
yeah, really
>>30656542
I'll try harder next time
>>30656921
If the Army said otherwise (I doubt it), then they are retarded and do not understand physics. Penetration is a function of momentum. Momentum is calculated as mass times velocity. .45 ACP bullets have 200% the mass of 9mm, while only having about 35% less velocity. You don't have to do the math to realize that I'm right.
>>30653315
V=QA, velocity=flowrate (of the gas) * cross sectional area that gas travels. For the same flow rate across a smaller cross sectional area you have a higher velocity..
>>30656987
Human bodies are not made of gas, though.
>>30656935
Dumb faggot.
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
You probably believe in stopping power too, don't you?
>>30657004
Are you retarded? The human body doesn't define the velocity at which the bullet leaves the fucking barrel nitiwit. The fucking gas moving it down the barrel you shit muffin.
>>30656918
No they wouldn't. The FBI had very specific requirements. They wanted a 180 grain projectile at 950 feet per second, no more and no less. Thus 10mm was down loaded from 1200 fps to 950. SW said we can recreate that in a smaller package, and they did so.
What does the G20 have to do with anything when the excellent 1006 and 1076 SW was already on the market.
>>30656987
I'm sorry this should have said Q=VA
>>30656603
>Blow it out your own ass dip shit. 10mm has had 25 years to become poplular, and I am saying this as a 10mm fan. The glocknade is also about 20 years old, get with it grandpa.
>
>The only working difference between 10mm and 40 is about two inches of penetration. 40 can be found anywhere and be purchased by the case for essentially the same price as 9mm. Ive never seen 10mm at walmart or fleet farm, its only purchased online at a dollar a round and still loaded to 40 spec.
You talk a lot of shit for being this ignorant.
http://sgammo.com/product/10mm-auto-ammo/50-round-box-10mm-auto-170-grain-fmj-fpj-prvi-partizan-ammo-ppr102
>>30657019
>nitwit
>you shit muffin
If you can't learn to interact with adults, I'm going to take away your late night snack privileges, Milton.
>>30656905
yeah maybe in the early 90's
this is 2016, where i can buy hot 9mm rounds for the same price and not have to worry about my gun exploding for negligable penetration
>>30656908
there is literally no rifle that fires .357 magnum. your comparison doesnt make sense and is wrong ultimately
>>30656942
stop quoting the 80's for your info and maybe I will
>>30657043
But the statement "for the same flow rate across a smaller cross sectional area you have a higher velocity" was correct.
>>30657046
I think you need to take a time out.
>>30657037
>we can recreate it
aaaaand they failed
FBI doesn't use .40SW anymore, remember?
>>30651987
I have both, fido.
10mm and .40 S&W. Both are good calibers. .40 is becoming as cheap as 9mm nowadays.
>>30657043
V=Q/A. For example, 3/1=1 and 3/0.5=6. So for the same flow through a barrel that is half size you get twice the velocity under ideal assumptions. This is simplified because there is other stuff going on with gas that is not accounted for.
>>30656981
It isn't any cheaper when you factor in shipping dumb fuck. Many departments use 40 including mine.
10mm is the ultimate meme, it isn't that concealable as far as small pistols go and it really isn't that powerful as far as large calibers.
>>30657096
FBI agents are at the discretion to use a variety of firearms and calibers from the approved list.
.40 is the caliber of niggers
10mm is the caliber of cunts
.45 is the caliber of MUH STOPPING POWER
All the different autists are making good showings ITT.
>>30657013
Service revolvers are 6 inches, and the corbon goes 1700 and change in that graph.
>panic happens
>.40 still in stock
checkmate 9mmtards
>>30657046
>yeah maybe in the early 90's
>this is 2016, where i can buy hot 9mm rounds for the same price and not have to worry about my gun exploding for negligable penetration
No even today, .40 performs better than 9mm.
>>30657096
>FBI doesn't use .40SW anymore, remember?
yeah for the same reason they stopped using 10mm though. Limp wristed agents.
>>30657205
what about 10mm
>>30657193
>Service revolvers are 6 inches
No, that's not accurate.
mfw I am reading this desperate attempt to save face
>>30657357
Except they are.
>>30652996
Thread should have ended at this post.
>>30657367
>>30657370
he forgot:
>10mm
better than all of the above
>>30657357
mahurin is 6 inch and pretty much the only relevant revolver in service today. if you're talking about those old s&w models that cops in the 1930's used then we have very different understanding of "service revolver"
and before you post another reaction image from 2008, please update your folder
>>30657214
Yeh only marginally, as in marginally still not better then 9mm.
>>30657756
>it doesn't count as a service gun unless I say it does :D
>>30657214
All manufacturers updated their bullet technology so the difference is not noticable in any real situation. It's a moot point anyways since "stopping power" is a pure fuddlore term since there is no way to measure this all important trait.
Everyone on /k/ should have come to this consensus, but seeing that's all .40SW fags have going for them, the fuddlore remains.
What bothers me the most is that instead of just being happy with the idea that they can have a special snowflake gun that still fires like a 9mm, they have to go out and spread misinformation to justify and gain approval for their purchase, if this thread is any proof of that.
>>30657858
>Damn, I can't come up with a good argument. Let me post an image from 2007 this time, that'll show him!
Here's a fairly new one. It's on me.
>>30651885
.40 has more power than .45 you compensator
>>30657950
Movingthe goalposts to only be convenient for you is not a good argument.
>>30657756
Please state the fundamental differences between a service revolver from 1930 and today. Pro tip their are no differences, unless you count stainless vs blued.
ITT not a single good argument backed up with evidence that the other mentioned calibers outperform 9mm in terms of damaging tissues
>>30656981
>you can count how many departments still use .40sw by hand
not if you use glocks in .40
>>30658353
>>30658134
A 1930's ball isnt going to compare to a modern bullet.
>>30658472
What?
>>30652351
Nah nigga.
Tokarev?
>>30651863
10mm is better.
>>30658549
first off we were not comparing ammo, we were comparing service revolvers.
Second, ball ammunition is modern. Please feel free to state the differences.
>>30658626
Mah*
Autocorrect go home
>>30657046
>there is literally no rifle that fires .357 magnum
Oh come on, at least try. There are dozens.
