When technology improves, would a Dreadnought be an effective alternative to a tank?
If rotary blades and treads are more energy efficient now, I'm not sure why they wouldn't be in the future.
The entire "appeal" of mechs is they're allegedly more maneuverable than modern tonks. If the mech can only move on two stubby legs, is super tall with a really high center of gravity, and has really limited speed/visibility/armor, it has no advantage,
The Dreadnought is to mechs as the Tsar Tank is to tanks
>>30622315
Yes of course, but is your tank blessed by the techpriests of Mars and imbued by the common and unending hatred for the ennemies of Man ?
didn't think so.
This is probably a troll thread, but I'll take the bait anyway.
The short answer is no. The kinds of advances in technology that would make a bipedal giant robot possible (mainly materials science and capacitors but maybe some others as well) could just be used to make better tanks that would outperform said giant robot in every situation.
A tank is going to be faster, easier to maintain due to being mechanically simpler, easier to operate due to being a vehicle you drive as opposed to a 10-20m tall mechanical biped that needs an autobalancer to even stand, more tactically flexible due to having a much lower profile, and, most importantly, far more durable in an actual battle due to needing far less armor to prevent a mobility kill--which effectively translates to more armor for less weight.
There is a possible place on the battlefield for something like a 3-4m tall powered exoskeleton; there is none for a fragile and expensive 10-20m tall fantasy robot like the one in your pic.
Dreadnoughts won't be tank replacements, they will be autonomous or remote controlled humanoid robots for fighting in cities or to be used as breakthrough forces.
An autonomous robot could be sent into a predefined area, being resilient to small arms fire it could be programed to only return fire - limiting civilian casualties.
>>30622315
>>30622378
CHECKMATE HERETIC.
>>30622422
Possible. However it's be a rpg (and the like) magnet.
>>30622378
>techpriests
You mean the faggots that beg the rogue AI still stuck inside all their technology to not revolt again
>>30622378
Heretic say what?
>>30622478
In the case of a dreadnought it's a space marine on life support rather than a "machine spirit"
>>30622270
Eh. It mostly serves as a device of the Imperium treating the human form as a symbolic religious canon, seperate from the eugenics. I suppose if you consider the resources of the forces that actually use heavy-weight combat walkers (guard Sentinels don't count), maybe you could begin to consider what, if any real advantages there could be.
I will say that the usual concerns about ground pressure with mech feet matter less from the perspective of the Imperium, where destroying bridges and roads is all well and good so long as the xeno/heretic scum have been scoured away, don't worry about the environment, we'll just terraform it, it'll be ready to recolonize in a century or so. That sort of thinking, taking the scale and time frame into account.
IMO, titan-sized walkers are a touch more logical if you think of them as dedicated planetary assault weapons, deployed via a interorbital beachhead and used to march across the planet and pacify it city by city. A sort of universal planetary assault platform, built to prosecute the ultimate scale of warfare on any type of solid planetary surface, the idea being that if you want a truly all-terrain weapons system, you don't mind if the terrain gets banged up, and you have the tech to build that big, it could work out well.
>>30622270
>>30622270
Actually, I think the dreadnought is a very good interpretation of the type; thick, squat, wide foot, wide stance. It's also used exclusively by very specialized, well equipped and well supplied forces that have the supply chain to support its use.
I would also note that the dreadnoughts fit in standard Space Marine drop pods. So their exact niche is as space-dropped armored firesupport. Along with the whole life support thing.
>>30622785
Ok, this post ran away from me. Point being that dreadnought aren't really used as a tank replacement. It's more like a super-heavy infantryman, as if power armored infantry weren't heavy enough. Until you get into giant ass titans, the heaviest ground units are still conventional tracked vehicles, at least for imperial armies.
>>30623026
Besides Centurions?
>>30623047
Oh yeah, that shit. I... like to forget about that. But yeah. Basically a dreadnought for marines that aren't paraplegics.
>>30623070
While a bit goofy looking, they do increase the dakka per marine ratio.
>>30623108
Also as engineering tools, it'd seem. Which are also a feature of dreadnaughts. So I guess you call them armored engineering vehicles that alsI do direct fire support?
>>30623166
You mean the drill with a heavy flamer built-in?
>>30622270
No.
And dreads aren't even tank replacements in warhammer. Space marines still have a fuck ton of tanks: spartans, rhinos, all the tanks that use the rhino chassis, and land raiders, just to name a few.
Nor are dreads, as it has been suggested ITT, designed to be super-heavy infantryman. That's cents, or just space marines in general really.
Dreads are designed to keep you alive for as long as possible. It's a common practice in the imperium, using severly injured people as servitors. The automatic targeting systems on the marine missiles have such servitors inside to guide the missiles. Same with drop pods.
Dreads are the exact same thing, except it's a waste to use a marine for such small tasks. Instead, you put them in a new, mechanical body (which is part of the reason it uses the ineffective human form, out of respect for the marines, and so that they don't have to relearn everything they knew about controlling their body), putting their litteraly centuries (and in quite a few caes, millenia) of experince to good use, while also allowing them to use newer, bigger guns in patters like the levithan siege dreadnoughts, and to serve as walking icons of the chapters history, connections to their past. Like old iron sides. This is why they say "even in death I serve".
By being tall they do attract more fire but they're less vulnerable to ground forces rushing them.
Not sure but alot of them have a big melee weapon dont they? a large saw? Tanks dont have that.
They also do seem rather fast and maneuverable compared to a tank, they dont need to maneuver to turn around.
The only advantage that a tank has over it is a tank can carry weapons one class larger and a tank can be slightly tougher.
Ultimately they're kinda equal just good for different roles. Remember that the Imperium employs both Tanks and Dreadnoughts.
And dont forget Terminator Armor which IMO is superior to both because it could be deployed in larger numbers.
>>30623070
>Basically a dreadnought for marines that aren't paraplegics.
No they aren't. They're designed to fill the role of terminators. Centurion pattern armor is quite litteraly something the ad mech invented, then claimed to be an STC, so as to allow the job of terminators to be fullfilled with out actually requiring termies, since that can only be worn by veterans, as it requires the crux terminatus, which litteraly has a sliver of the emperor armor inside it.
>>30622378
>>30622425
PRAISE THE EMPEROR!
>>30623047
Matt Ward is not canon.
>>30623324
Ward had nothing to do with centurions
>>30623220
>>30622270
Only the very best get out into Dreadnoughts, if we can preserve our greatest most experienced fighters and put them back into the game we should do so.
>>30622478
>>30622514
The Truth of the Emperor guides your way.
>>30623198
That, the close-combat weapon arm in general, the Ironclad configuration in general as well.
Hand to hand combat is the weirdest element of 40k. It's way more common than is sensible.
>>30622378
Savage
>>30624025
Pretty sensible since one of the more common xenos to fight are orks to like charging into melee.
>>30622270
The dreadnought (boxy model) isn't even particularly effective in-setting due to its gigantic height. Its presence is largely ceremonial at this point.
This nigga is ahead of his time.
>>30622270
No.
It is not a tank, and a real tank can kill a Dreadnought.
>>30622270
I love how the guy didn't bore out holes for the other chambers or at least paint black holes.
>>30624870
An in-universe tank can kill a dreadnaught, they aren't very good.
>>30622392
I've seen a lot of threads explain why mechs are not something that is viable and I agree with all of the points that are made, but humor me for a minute here.
Mecha look cool and are neat as a concept but are not feasible in the real world or at least on Earth. Is there any environment, circumstance, military doctrine, or design philosophy that would make a bipedal or legged mech reasonable?
>>30622270
Fuck that shit. Fafnir is the better deal
>>30624025
40K melee is more sensible when you look at it in a similar vain to middle ages melee. The technology for armor (also sheer xeno toughness) has surpassed the technology for ranged weaponry ( Again roughly and not in all cases). In theory melee weaponry allows the user to be more precise in hitting the weakspots of the armor.
Also again many things in 40k are outright capable of shrugging off ranged weaponry to a certain degree and gets right into your battle lines
Get on my level
what a dreadnought might look like
>>30625749
Classic UC Gundam is actually a fairly good example.
Minervosky particles literally fuck any and all forms of radio communication which in turn stops a lot of weapon systems from being able to kill mobile suits such as guided missiles.
Improvements in armor make balistic weaponry much more unreliable, so energy weaponry is developed, however it is unable to be scaled down to the level that can be placed on a tank, helicopter, or Jet (Barring some fuckhuge jets that don't really make much sense even in universe)
The need for machines that are able to both fly around in space, but still be able to physically hold ground on colonys, meteorites, and other floating masses.
Also a means as to actually use the powerplants that uc has in actual combat. The generators that all mobile suits have go critical on occasion, and almost always when they are directly hit by beam weaponry. so being able to cripple the mobile suit without directly destroying the generator is very important unless you want to blow up most of your forces because one of your fuckhuge minervosky tanks got hit by a beam weapon
>>30622315
>>30622378
>>30622425
My sides
>>30626700
my motherfucking nigga.
>>30626759 continuation
The size difference between mobile suits and tanks is also worth noting since mobile suits tower over tanks and are quite quick when they start jumping so basic zaku II's were able to approach lines of fed tanks quick enough and from a high enough angle that tanks really struggled to kill them, and were both out gunned and out armored. This only got worse as Uc tech advances.
Mobile suits were originally developed from construction robots where human like bodys were not much of a hindrance, and the ability for a construction mech to quickly change tools by simply picking them up is also true with weapons which gives mobile suits some tactical flexibility that things such as tanks and jets do not have. Same with the ability to pick things up or just outright move large objects with out having to use a crane.
Finally shock value did have a huge part in why Zeon adopted mobile suits
