The threat of a chimpout is reaching a probability not seen since the 60s. concerned about keeping the family safe. To me this means being able to use deadly force suppressed. Subsonic rounds are going to be far less effective than a bullet travelling at 3000fps, so to maximize what little velocity it has, a round needs to be designed for subsonic velocities.
Clearly modern pistol JHPs are going to be designed for subsonic velocities if the round is subsonic. Are there any non $2+ a round boutique subsonic rifle cartridges that can surpass a pistol round when fired from an sbr?
>>30614305
reload your own subsonic-300blk if cost per bullet is so much of a concern for you.
>>30614337
With what bullet?
Most rifle rounds won't expand or fragment shy of 1050fps?
Bump
>>30614468
Bumping
>>30614468
Gotta love Venice Beach.
>>30614574
It's pretty late/early OP so be patient. Sadly I don't know much about surpressors.
>>30614305
>non boutique
Nope. 300 Blackout is my only thought but that's an expensive boutique-ish round. I would just go with 5.56 but you seem to be very concerned with noise and that's going to be loads louder than .45 or especially 147gr 9mm.
But also loads more effective at killing people, keep in mind. That plus the 30-round magazines, cost, and ease of use puts an AR above any PCC for me, at least for a chimpout scenario if your life depends on it. For the average home defense then sure it doesn't really matter but for lots of people attacking at the same time, high capacity and high lethality win out.
But good on you for remembering to protect your hearing. Most people leave that bit out when selecting a defensive firearm, especially the AK guys. I love AKs, but they don't play very well with suppressors.
![AAC-Honey-Badger[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fStB54z.jpg "AAC-Honey-Badger[1].jpg")
Get a Honey Badger. It's chambered in .300 AAC Blackout, a round designed to surpass 9mm at subsonic velocities. The gun and bullet were both made to be better than a suppressed SMG.
>>30614360
>Being this noguns
https://www.wideners.com/reloading-supplies/bullets/rifle-bullets/300-blackout-bullets
>>30614619
except that its in CA
>>30618609
I don't care much for blackout, but these things do stuff to my dick. The stock is GOAT too.
>>30618797
>Being this ignorant
You realize many of those bullets are fmj which will not expand, and sure as hell aren't going to expand at subsonic velocities
>>30619355
Any kid who grew up in the 80s or 90s loves the MP5SDs. Who wouldn't want an AR version of that?
>>30614305
At subsonic velocities, bore diameter and bullet weight begin to be very important.
I'd continue to say, shot for shot, 45 is superior. However keeping in mind the necessity of mobility and ammunition load out 9mm is better whilst still having cut-pass performance.
TL;DR 4 mags? .45 ACP
6-8 mags? 9mm
>>30618609
Is it named the Honey Badger because it just fucks shit up and AAC has a sense of humor?
The thread is still up, sweet.
Did some looking around.
Lehigh makes bullets designed to fracture for $1.50 a bullet
Outlaw state makes bullets that will expand at subsonic velocities for $.5 to $1 a bullet
But then it looks like .300blk and other type rounds are generally more lethal when bullets tumble. Been looking for testing done by a reputable source on this type of thing.
I went with D... all of the Above. I have a Kriss SDP 9mm I SBR'd that lives in a backpack with a Glock 34 it shares mags with. I can easily throw the backpack on or in the car, I also have more than 1 AR, but I keep one set up as a kit with a 14.5'' 556 upper, and two matching 10.5'' uppers one in 556 and another in 300blk. The AR I have a Silencerco Omega 762 for... I am waiting on my form 4 to come back on my Rugged Obsidian 45 pistol suppressor for the Kriss & Glock.
>>30621096
Picking up a Glock 34 this weekend, plan on running a six second mount, put it in a murder bucket holster. Next month is the Kris's vector. And I'm thinking a 300blk might be good if I can find good terminal ballistics data.
>>30614305
>Subsonic
>Rifle cartrige
I don't think so
if you go for suppressing and subsonic, go for .45ACP/9*19mm for they have more energy for same speed and subsonic .223 may not cycle your weapon where a subsonic .45/9*19 will
>>30621327
>Subsonic .223
>>30621622
Nigga wut?!
>>30621750
You heard me
>>30621821
Gotta go fast!
>>30614305
Get a PCC chambered in .45ACP. Heavy bullets give good energy when velocity is limited, plenty of hollow point options to put big holes in people. You can buy self defense loads off the shelf already subsonic without breaking the bank, or load your own easily.
>>30621895
But energy is a poor metric of comparing cartridges
>>30614619
>no pavement stains or dog turds
It's probably somewhere in Orange County instead of Venice
>>30622570
Why do you think subsonic 9mm is typically 147gr with a decent powder charge and not light loaded 115gr? Or .300 BLK with 220gr subs instead of extra light loaded 150gr? The limited velocity of subsonic rounds drops energy enough that it does become a concern, and added weight offsets this.
>>30622805
How does energy, expressed in ft/lbs, have to do with terminal ballistics. The added weight could help with penetration, but 147gr 9mm loads penetrate deeply enough commonly.
>>30620513
>FMJ won't expand
A-box shots only. Problem solved.
>>30622805
he's right though
energy in ft-lbs is a bad way to compare two different projectiles
you want a big hole, so you want expansion or fragmentation (or a larger projectile), which would require some energy to do to a projectile in bodily tissue
>>30622932
whoa
its just that easy then
>>30622956
rapid yawing works too
![300blkdeer3[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/H74Gqbi.jpg "300blkdeer3[1].jpg")
>>30623004
truth, (which again goes back to wanting a larger projectile) with an emphasis on rapid
pic related
>>30623044
Clearly a longer bullet is going to have a higher sectional density and would yaw quicker.
![300blkdeera[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lxVxJrh.jpg "300blkdeera[1].jpg")
>>30623061
indeed
>>30623072
My issue with subsonic rifle rounds, like a 200-240g .300BLK is the lack of ballistic gel testing from good sources, and the anecdotal evidence that they are both terrible to hunt with, and amazing to hunt with.
Pistol rounds a no brainer. But at the end of the day they are still pistol rounds.
>>30619339
Are you being serious? http://venicebeach.com/
>>30619355
stock looks like a (safety harbour?) KES Kompact entry stock. Yes spelled with a k
>>30623087
have you tried setting up your own gel tests?
knowledge is out there to be found by the inquisitive
pic related
>>30623072
What state is that in. Never seen a tag on a rack before. Took pic related with my 6.8 AR.
>>30623146
I dont have a fridge big enough to cast the blocks properly. And honestly, if I need to go that far to get the data, im not so sure that its worth it.
>>30623087
>>30623181
I think that people say it is crap for hunting and that they can't take down game or have heard of "tons" of game wardens having to cull maimed unharvested deer because SMKs or blackout is not lethal makes me wonder if they are maximizing their doubts of something they haven't really researched or if they are garbage marksmen and buy into 300 ultramags for its, uhm, "superior ballistics"
I haven't hunted with 5.56 or blackout, but it seems almost QED when I see multiple posting regular success with them
>>30614305
The answer is probably NO
And subsonic from a rifle style round (even 300black) is inefficient because most rifle bullets are narrow in cross section and the Size of the bullethole affects damage as much as the velocity does.
The best subsonic rounds are .45acp, the undisputed king of subsonic suppressed.
But the problem with 45 is capacity unless you want to feel like you're holding a brick in your hand (ahem, FNX-45).
Here's where we find a rather interesting combination... subsonic means the velocity is capped at around 1050fps... and 9mm bullets can be subsonic and heavy but...
40 S&W is probably the sweet spot for suppressed as long as you're critical of the type of ammunition it uses. Some .40 loads are supersonic but there's a fair number of them that are sub.
And .40sw is also usually a stubby flat bullet too... Flat Points and Wadcutters cause more damage than Hollowpoints do in practice.
The problem to live with a .40 s&w though is that they usually put more wear and tear on the gun. So thats the tradeoff. But they have the capacity that the .45 doesnt have while still being easy to handle.
And suppressors tame kick just as good as a muzzle break.
>>30623113
what are you even trying to argue about?
>>30623517
>I own an FNX and it fits fine in my hands.
>The suppressor is more to tame the sound than the recoil impulse
Pistol rounds essentially need to use the width of the wound channel to inflict damage, they have no sectional density, they have no velocity. Subsonic rifle rounds dont have the velocity or the diameter, but they have SD. 40 sw offers nothing over a 9mm or 45 to make it noteworthy in a pistol caliber carbine. Especially since most PCCs dont have the magazine fed through the grip like a handgun.
Essentially what im looking for is what the best subsonic rifle bullet construction is in a 7-9mm bullet for terminal ballistics, and how much better, if at all, are they better than modern hollowpoints in handguns.
Surprised to hear concern at noise policing when during a chimpout you should expect to hear shots throughout. Consider Oakland literally every night.
>>30614305
I just take my MPX everywhere I go these days. I doubt any of them will have armor on, even then, a pelvic or leg shot will fuck them up quite badly.
>>30624386
Different levels of chimpout
>>30620685
Never understood these horrible shoops.
I have a suppressed HK UMC. Its fucking cool, and have shot a few critters with it. Those big 240 grain slugs give the good news.
Its really quiet with a supressor and i reckon would calm a chimp down.
Subsonic slugs from this imo
>>30628701
Damn that is cool, is there any way to get my hands on one for less than like $3k? If HK doesn't have the money then these clone companies like Zenith, POF, PTR, etc, need to get on making more UMPs and shit. MP5s are cool too but the UMP is just sexy in .45.
>>30630276
looks ugly and heavy and very unergonomic
also where does the magazine go
>>30632025
Are you simple? How can you not see that it's a revolver shotgun and the 'magazine' is already in situ?
