honestly don't know much about physics but say we're around 13,500ft lbs, and the armor will equally distribute the force no deformation, would the gs still kill you? how would you calculate? do we need a suit weight? say >380lbs*(?)
*www.medcalc.com/body.html
my surface area is 1.6m=16000cm x (4.5gTi densityx2.4)=172800g=380lbs of Titanium for an inch of body coverage (would be less since it wouldn't be skin tight, make use of spheres etc)
>>30613926
Yes, you would survive if you had enough armor to survive. Next question.
>>30613926
No.
Extended version: Unless you consider AFVs to be armor, then no.
>>30613926
No reasonably shoulder fireable bullet has enough force behind it to kill you via blunt trauma through armor.
>>30613944
>>30613953
ok so two, potentially contradicting answers and one
>>30613955
need citation? 19,000J is a lot
>>30613926
You can survive just about anything im sure, I mean, I'm pretty sure some people have survived shit like 40mm so, why not?
>>30613990
Those 19k Joules are concentrated in a tiny tiny point. The force will be distributed outward, first by the armor and then by your body. Without penetration, you'll be badly hurt but never killed.
>>30614005
>>30614020
ok i kinda believe this but for context I wondered because i saw demolition ranch shoot Ti plate w/ 50 cal at 2:24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fBkNIROg4
and figured if that was strapped to your chest you'd still die, but if it was padded and distributed over your body you might survive, but idk how mass, joules, newtons, g, etc interact
>>30614080
sorry @ 5:24
>>30613926
This is literally the most retarded thread I've ever seen on this board. What are you, 7? GTFO, this board is for adults.
Yes
1" of steel is enough for .50 ball
You can stop API too just fine
>>30614185
Fuck off if you don't like the thread. It's an interesting hypothetical. What the shit you doing in here? Don't you have a 1911 to go excessively Polish and justify?
>>30614080
learn some of old Newtons laws of physics.
If the energy in a bullet was so high it would kill someone without any penetration/spalling, the energy from firing the .50 cal would also kill the shooter.
>>30614228
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND MIND YOUR OWN TENDIES!!!!!1!!!1!1!!!
>RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!1!1!!!!1!!
>>30614219
yes but im pretty sure if it was right on your chest it could still stop your heart or something? maybe padding would be enough, along with the weight of an entire suit but wasn't sure
>>30614228
and yeah i was gonna reply like he could have just skipped over it, i've seen stupid shit here but w/e ignore what you dont like
>>30614258
Nuh-uh... wait... but...?
Uhhhhh...
>/thread?
>>30613926
what the hell is with the elbows on that diving suit
>>30614286
No
Look at the rifle butt and its cross section
A small armor plate is wider than that
You'll be hit with less force than the recoil of the gun
>>30614258
yeah i might be dumb, seems like the most valid point so far, but wouldnt the (relatively) slow acceleration of the bullet be different than the instantaneous stopping of it? like if you shot a 50bmg you'd feel it in your shoulder, but if your shot went directly down the barrel of someone holding another rifle, i think it would have a different effect
>>30614320
yeah but the bullet stops (almost) instantly, by that logic being ejected for car crash and hitting a wall wouldn't kill your because sitting in the car accelerating didnt
>>30614329
>...if your shot went directly down the barrel of someone holding another rifle...
Just go to sleep. Holy fucking shit, kid. Dumbest post I've seen this month, easily. God damn you're dense.
>>30614329
the weight of the rifle has more to do with it, as the energy of the bullet fired is transferred to the mass of the rifle, which is then transferred into the shoulder.
But this is also true for whatever armor you're wearing. If it's strong enough to stop the bullet, it will probably be quite heavy, so the plate will absorb the energy, and then transfer the same amount of energy on the body.
And because of air resistance, the energy transferred to the target will always be lower than the energy transferred to the shoulder of the shooter, although it will have a little bit less time to absorb the energy if you're getting shot, you'd still survive, since a fifty cal will not even injure the shooter.
>>30614363
And the bullet launches almost instantly
It's just like Im back on /sci/. Holy shit OP. What's next? Bullet made of ice vs armor made of lava or something? Asking about perpetual energy guns? Diamond bullets because it's the hardest metal?
>>30614414
>what is a hypothetical question
>>30614417
yeah I guess this is pretty much the answer, I figured as much when I calculated the weight but still wasn't sure on g forces or hydrostatic shock or anything. I still imagine an armored car would "lurch" more if being hit by a .50 bmg than someone firing a .50 bmg from it but maybe not
>>30614431
>fast burning vs slow burning powders have no effect of ballistics
>>30614471
pic related
>>30613990
A person speeds the bullet up via the butt of the stock. It stands to reason a piece of armor that could properly distribute the force would keep you alive just fine.
>inb4 "but anon, look at this recoil dampening device!"
All they do is slow down the speed at which the force is applied to the shooter. It all still gets to you eventually. Make your armor 2 layers with some sort of spring to dampen the impact of the bullet.
>>30614185
>>30614471
what about this?
>>30613646
>>30614523
It has no difference here
.50 cal hitting you and being stopped by armor isn't much different to you shooting one in regards to the energy you feel
>>30613926
>Could you survive a .50 bmg (no ap) provided proper armor?
not unless its a 5" thick hardened steel casket.
some anon wayyyyy back on 2009 /k/ shot 1/2" steel plates spaced out 1-2" apart, and it made it through like 6 plates, and halfway through the 7th.
look around and you will find a pic.
>>30614626
Not all steel is created equal. .50 will not penetrate 1" AR500.
>>30614565
>>30614616
Ok it does physically make sense, but really wearing hard armor and getting hit by say .308 would feel the same (or less) as shooting it? (Providing weight vs surface area of the plate/butt)
>>30614647
you gonna walk around in 1" thick AR500 armor? Shit weighs like a pound per cubic inch.
>>30614626
>>30614647
Or an inch and a half or so of Titanium(lighter)..that occurs in the vid I linked above
>>30614672
That's not what OP asked.
>>30614672
Im not sure about ar500, but regular old 44w (your standard stuff) is 41lb per square foot, which is 12"×12"×1".
>>30614258
100%
A weapon upon firing exerts as much force on the shooter as on the target.
The damage comes from the energy being focused into one fixed, small point.
NEXT THREAD
>>30614793
>A weapon upon firing exerts as much force on the shooter as on the target.
On a raw boltgun with nothing attached, sure. Otherwise no. Semiautomatic action, recoil pads, muzzle devices, and other various recoil dampening systems both slow and redirect the forces from the shooter. You will likely never see a single gun that is 1:1 force.
>>30614789
yea, it says its 0.2836lbs a cubic inch. still though, shits heavy as fuck.
a 12x12x1" AR500 is 40.84lbs. Now imagine 2 plates.... and that just covers both sides of your torso, never mind the spalling is gonna take off your arm or both legs.
>>30614793
>the friction of the bullet moving forward in the barrel had no effect
>What is blow forward opperation?
>>30614825
Knows what's up
>>30614866
>never mind the spalling is gonna take off your arm or both legs
No.
>>30614895
You wanna test it out?
>>30614866
Nigga the math is up there, it's a 400 lb power suit op asks if you surging not if you can walk.
Also
>assuming the force was distributed over the suit
>hurr op is carrying 2 plates on him like a sign board and spawl will blow his legs off :DD
>>30614893
>>What is blow forward opperation?
A complete fraud. The only gun to ever use it was later studied and found to be operating on simple blowback. The friction of the bullet moving forward was negligible.
>>30614944
No need, it's been done already.
>>30614893
You forgot
>recoilless rifle
swedish space majic!
fiddy cal you get shot you might get fucked you might live.
dirty thirty cal you get shot you might get fucked you might live
twenty two titty cal you get shot you might get fucked you might live
these are the reasons that grenades of various launching types exist, along with even more deadly weapons.
>>30614951
Surviving*
>>30614648
When a bullet impacts a piece of armor, it loses kinetic energy very quickly. When it is fired, it gains a slightly higher amount of kinetic energy, but over a longer period of time because it accelerates over the length of the barrel.
You can also understand this with impulse. Impulse is essentially force multiplied by the time over which the force is applied. The impulse exerted on the shooter's shoulder is about the same magnitude as the impulse exerted on the shootee's chest. The difference is that the impulse exerted on the shooter has less force and more time. The impulse on the shootee has more force and less time. So the shootee experiences a higher peak force when the bullet hits him.
The solution is to give the bullet more time and space to decelerate by adding layers of padding. If the plate was backed by a fully collapsible foam pad as thick as the barrel is long, then the shootee would experience the same peak force as the shooter.
Hope that makes sense
the highest strength armor in common use would do nothing to stop .50 bmg and if it could stop it completely then you would not feel much more force than you do while shooting .50 bmg
>>30614951
Im talkin bout Spalding nigger. Sports dont play no games. You get hit, you gonna get a missing limb.
>>30614987
That's basically what I've (op) been pointing out above and people were like
>bullet acceleration is also basically instantaneous
So you somewhat agree receiving a .30 to a plate carrier is different than shooting if from the shoulder? How would this carry over to .50bmg?
I was just watching this video like half an hour ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdgQ0OSZqOo
Take a look at that water jug.
>>30614987
the bigger issue is the mass of the armor compared to the mass of the bullet.
Because of newton's laws of motion, and conservation of momentum, the kinetic energy from the bullet will not be equal to the kinetic energy of the armor. Since the armor is a lot heavier.
>>30615028
I don't really know about the biomechanics of being shot while wearing a plate carrier. I do know that the best case would be to receive the round at the geometrical centre of the plate so that the plate applies a uniform pressure to the shootee's chest.
You could find that pressure by googling force-time graphs of .50bmg impacts, then dividing the peak force by the area of the plate. Then you could find the threshold impact pressures for bruising, broken ribs, internal injuries and other stuff.
Because impulse has the same units as momentum, you could also find the velocity imparted to the shootee by the impact. So if you have a 100 kg*m/s impact on a 50 kg person, they will be pushed away at about 2 m/s (4 mph) initially.
>>30615199
People have been shot with .30cal rounds all day long wearing plates without any trauma whatsoever.
But .50BMG is a big fuckoff RIP AND TEAR round, so it may be operating on an entirely different tier of physical force transfer.
>>30615199
Ok Thanks this was one of the most helpful answers giving me actual new terms. A few others made good points I had pretty much considered, Newtons law in regards to the rifle, (why I added weight) and the surface area of the buttstock (why I added even distribution on the suit) but knew there was something more to it
>>30615116
I think you mean the inertia, not the kinetic energy. I was assuming the armor was initially at rest. The force exerted on the armor does not change with the mass of the armor. What does change is the velocity at which the armor plate moves towards the wearer's chest after the bullet impact.
Both the mass of the plate and the time in which the bullet decelerates have a big effect on the injuries the wearer receives. As a thought experiment, would you rather be directly behind a 500 kg steel plate or behind a mattress and a 50 kg plate if you wanted to shelter from a wrecking ball?
>>30615199
i'm gonna go full ignorant here, but being pushed at 4 mph is literally the highschool bully pushing the 4chan browser in the hallway.
i know it's been said already, but we must remember that energy from a bullet is put into such a small area that it punches in like a, well, a punch in the shop class sense instead of the hallway sense.
>mfw i'm 30 and haven't punched someone in like 14 years
it all goes back into basic pounds per square inch, obviously 1000 psi is brutal when it's on 1/1000 of a square inch, but not shit when it's over 1000 square inches.
psi and lb/ft along with most all scientific measurements are great, but we humans often disregard the application part of things where we forget the area on which force is applied upon.
I'll just make this real simple.
Assuming the kinetic energy of a .50 cal bullet is 20195 joule. With a mass of 0,052kg
Assuming the magic super bulletproof plate OP is wearing weigh 10 kg.
Using Newton's third law:
Energy projectile/Energy plate = mass plate/mass projectile
This turns into:
Energy projectile/(mass plate/mass projectile)= energy plate
20195J/(10kg/0,052kg)=105J
Using the kinetic energy formula, to determine how fast this 10 kg plate is "punching" him in the chest we get:
4,58 m/s.
Compare it to a ten kg weight dropped from a height using 9,81 m/s^2 gravity on his chest:
4,58^2/(2*9,81)=1,07m
So, it's like getting dropped a 10 kg weight from 1,07m on your chest. You'll feel it, it will hurt, but you'll be fine.
This is assuming no energy lost, and no air resistance, and using the most powerful .50 i could find.
>>30614648
About the same if the armor plate is similar or bigger than the butt of the rifle.
The armor is going to be heavier.
I read an incident in Iraq where a guy took a burst of PKM fire to his plate and didn't even know it until afterwards.
>>30615441
>You'll feel it, it will hurt, but you'll be fine.
/thread
>>30615414
That was just an example. I really don't know how much momentum is imparted during the impact of a bullet
>>30615453
That's pretty cool
>brb, blowing $400 or whatever on a plate carrier+plates
bumping thread for further silly physics related questions
>>30614866
>never mind the spalling is gonna take off your arm or both legs.
Looks like we found another 50BMG myth believer
>>30613953
50BMG ball will go through 12mm RHA. You could carry a 20mm plate but it would be a bitch to carry.
>>30617490
>>30614647
Steel plates for .50BMG tend to be in the 0.75 to 1 inch range, AR550 grade is best. 1 inch ones will neatly block an AP round but it will leave a pretty deep crater.
So as long as an exo can lift the weight of those for a chestplate and some thigh protectors (arms don't have nearly as critical arteries), it should be good to go. Rest of the thing doesn't need to be as tough.
>>30617564
Well I don't work out so I can't compare weights, but picked up a +130lbs anvil, awkwardly and hunched over, so I think if I had a Trumpline (make load bearing great again) it would seem much easier
The bullet accelerates over 36" of barrel you retard, when it hits your chest armor with the padding and the knock back it's still decelerating over only like 1"
>>30614329
http://www.9news.com/mb/news/local/jefferson-county-deputy-cleared-in-aurora-shooting/273066018
Well I guess god saw this thread and wanted to prove me wrong...and that a bullet could be safely caught in a barrel
>>30614414
Told you it happens
>>30621867
>Told you it happens
Officials say such a shot is "one in a billion."
Well damn.
>>30623494
still happened, hours after that post too...
>k/ a magical place
>proper armor
yes that's why they make these
>>30614329
>if your shot went directly down the barrel of someone holding another rifle
ONE IN A BILLION
N
E
I
N
A
B
I
L
L
I
O
N
>>30624908
Is this the newest meme or something?
>>30624908
>not an argument
>literally within 24 hours
>billions of bullets shot around the world every day
>happens all the time in less stable countries that can't take a minute to report it, cause war
>>30613990
>>30613953
We don't require a sophisticated analysis of physics (beyond Newton's Third Law) to intuit that the force behind a .50 BMG is, when equally distributed over a sufficiently large surface, is not sufficient to kill you.
There are several examples of shoulder-fired .50 BMG weapons, including Barrett's rifles and that bolt-action upper for AR that accepts .50. Keep in mind that, while the muzzle brake takes some of the edge off, most of that bullet's energy is still being transferred into your body via the stock. This is mitigated by the fact that a) the rifle is heavy and b) the surface area of a buttstock is significantly larger than that of a spitzer bullet. Were a bullet to impact a plate of armor without penetrating, a similar reaction would happen--the energy of the bullet would be transferred into an object with significantly higher mass and surface area. It would knock you down and hurt like a bitch, but you won't die.
>>30613944
what about spalling?
i guess you could just wear a brick of steel and coat it in that rubber stuff they put on ar500 plates
>>30625112
Spall liner
Kevlar on the backface
Btw, Brits put armor against .50 cal on soldiers in Ireland due to fears of IRA sniping with Barretts.
>>30614825
You're arguing details.
What should be clear is that .50BMG is not even close to the threshold of killing the shooter in pure energetic terms.
In terms of energy, taking a .50BMG to the chest is like crashing a car into a solid object from 35mph. But this question isn't even like asking whether you can survive a car crash from 35mph, it's like asking "can someone survive a car crash from 35mph given safety equipment that ensure uniform distribution and cushioning of the impact"?
Yes, of course, obviously. People survive impacts that are orders of magnitude higher energy given they have proper safety equipment.
>>30614258
this.
bullets kill you because you're made out of meat, and meat fucking sucks at stopping bullets.
105J of energy given to the 10 kg plate, slowed with a constant force over maybe 1 cm of padding would give you about 16 psi of pressure imparted onto your chest, which is in the range of bomb overpressure.
>>30614565
Wtf am i reading
Slowling down the speed literally weakens its force not slow the rate at which its felt
Taking a 50 cal at one mile is like getting shot with a .44 magnum at point blank range.
>>30625178
>A whole unit taken out by heat cases
Is .50 BMG the most over exaggerated round ever?
Its like the katana of bullets
>>30614793
Equating momentum doesn't equate shock.
>>30614825
not to mention some guns have rather high inertia from sheer mass which helps things
>>30628616
Nah, it just has no practical daily use. I've never seen anyone carry a Desert Eagle as either CC or OC. The only use for it outside military use is for funs.
>>30628795
.50 BMG =/= .50 AE
>>30628616
It really is, isn't it?
My uncle got shot by a .50 during WW2 in France by an American aircraft when his smokescreen shifted. He basically died, they told my family he was dead, and then after the war he came home. It was weird. He was laid up in a French hospital for months. My dad said that if you didn't have a fist you could stick your arm through the hole. It was above his heart and below his shoulder. He survived but it was basically a miracle.
>>30614286
Nigga, you can accidently stop someone's heart by just punching them in the chest at a precise timing.
No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOIsGXSHjbU
>>30630634
>a cartoon
>realism
the math on this is already done in this thread:
>>30615441
>>30630034
It's not exaggerated much, if at all. The .44 mag and .45 ACP have both been over exaggerated far more.
