Power armor
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Is it time to consider power armor for counter terrorism? It's still too limited for military use as there's no ideal power source and enemies would have access to anti armor weapons. While terrorist attacks are increasingly shifting to infantry attacks using rifles. SWAT and CT groups do not have an ideal way to deal with these attacks, they don't have the option of throwing grenades or leveling buildings as the military can in war. They don't have enough protection to rush groups of trained people using rifles as they take casualties and end up having to take cover giving terrorists time to kill large groups of hostages. Snipers have trouble in modern commercial buildings as the thick laminated glass causes problems and if they switch to more powerful weapons they risk killing people behind the target. Even if they manage to kill one, when they are in groups it's unlikely they can get them all at the same time.
Power armor would limit the effect of these attacks, it's nearly impossible to stop them getting rifles, if you have powered armor resistant to military rifles there's a much lower chance of them being able to get anti armor weapons. Even if they did manage to get something it's going to be heavy to carry around, likely have poor accuracy and be difficult to use in close quarters.
Powered armor would also be much faster to deploy, 2 or 3 of them could easily end an attack, as they wouldn't need much support so enemies wouldn't have the time to prepare like they do when police carefully set up behind cover and slowly advance.
>>30556134
No power source compact enough currently.
>>30556134
If it's not a powerd armoured fur suit I ain't interested.
>>30556184
Latest lithium cells should be ok. They are around 300wh per kilogram, assuming the powered armor uses 5kw on average you need under 20kg to run it for one hour.
5KW average output is likely a very high estimate, it would mean you were using bursts of 40KW+ 100kg or so of armor doesn't need 80x as much strength as a human.
>>30556245 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq4amM9u-6o
The Revision Prowler is your best bet for now.From the TALOS program
Power Armor is a very difficult proposition.
To be useful, power armor needs to
>Last a long time
>Provide meaningful resilience to small arms fire
>Increase his carrying capability
Said armor must not
>Encumber the soldier in adverse conditions
>Slow him down
>Make him less able to move about the battlefield
Even if all other points can be satisfied, mechanical reliability will be the last benchmark achieved. An active system is worse than pointless if it doesn't work.
>>30556299
maximum battery life is 6hrs so its only good for RUSH type warfare.
What about the concussion force, how would we deal with that? Like getting a spray of 5-10 bullets right into your torso and maybe even head would be much more common for power armored cops.
Space Marines are wanked precisely because of that, if the round doesn't penetrate they can endure retarded amounts of punishment. Terminators can survive direct tank hits.
>>30556299
OP specified CT forces, the requirements would be slightly lower imo. Because the power armored cops would operate for a shorter amount of time in a smaller area and switching out packs, parts or even the whole thing would be much, much easier and faster.
>>30556316
>maximum battery life is 6hrs so its only good for RUSH type warfare.
Which means unless you can maneuver around the battlefield in your high tech suit of armor, we're back to the status quo.
>>30556331
>OP specified CT forces, the requirements would be slightly lower imo. Because the power armored cops would operate for a shorter amount of time in a smaller area and switching out packs, parts or even the whole thing would be much, much easier and faster.
Is power armor superior to and less expensive than improved training and working to defuse the social and ethnic tensions that have been building for the past decade?
>>30556344
Do you think a Storm Troopers life is worth 50000 usd for a TALOS Suit? I was quoted last year around 15000 usd for one battery and leggings.
No this suit will be used for DARPA for the next couple of years then given to a handful of Delta Wolves to wreck havoc and spread fear onto the masses.
>>30556332
Like I said. No proper power source.
>>30556385
This doesn't exactly answer the question. Better armor isn't a bad idea, but $50,000 on the market today for whoever wants to buy? One size fits all? Keep in mind that creating a suit of $50,000 armor for every policeman (defined as officers with arresting power) would cost $38 billion dollars.
>>30556299
Those are unrealistic requirements. It only needs to do a few of those things and some of them only partially for it to work successfully before it needs to be improved.
>>30556461
>Those are unrealistic requirements. It only needs to do a few of those things and some of them only partially for it to work successfully before it needs to be improved.
What's your reasoning? My opinion is that if you're allowed to compromise on mobility, it'd be much, much smarter to use riot shields.
>>30556331
>What about the concussion force, how would we deal with that? Like getting a spray of 5-10 bullets right into your torso and maybe even head would be much more common for power armored cops.
I'm thinking more of a rigid suit than a powered exoskeleton. Something like the TALOS suit is much too weak. By using modern composite armor I'm pretty sure you can manage complete coverage within realistic volumes and weight. Composition would be something like tungsten carbide outer layer, ceramic layer then a titanium layer, possibly with repeating ceramic/ titanium layers. You would then have kevlar lining. It would be totally useless for actual warfare because someone would just shoot you with their ZSU-23 technical or .50 cal.
But for SWAT, counter terrorists or counter insurgents it's different, being able to be immune to conventional rifles shuts down many types of attacks. It would also crush morale of attackers as they would know that no matter how well they were trained they are going to be killed without any chance to shoot back.
Fighting powered armor where attacks typically occur would also be a terrifying prospect for them, usually indoor places with some open space like airports, hotels and malls are targeted, because snipers can get them in the open outdoors. But for power armor that is the ideal condition, range is short enough that fighting against them would be horrific, even if you catch one reloading or with a weapon jammed it can still physically tear you apart. Unlike a military situation you can't just run into the woods or swamps to escape by exploiting limitations of powered armor.
The main thing I would change over what you see on most sci-fi armor is not having a head. It's easier to just cover it in arrays of small cameras and FLIR modules. The operator could just look around with a HMD, software would combine the camera feeds into a VR image a human is comfortable with.
>>30556616
>I'm thinking more of a rigid suit than a powered exoskeleton. Something like the TALOS suit is much too weak. By using modern composite armor I'm pretty sure you can manage complete coverage within realistic volumes and weight. Composition would be something like tungsten carbide outer layer, ceramic layer then a titanium layer, possibly with repeating ceramic/ titanium layers. You would then have kevlar lining. It would be totally useless for actual warfare because someone would just shoot you with their ZSU-23 technical or .50 cal.
Tungsten Carbide and other strong composites are really expensive. Bulk Chinese grade Tungsten Carbide in powder form is $45 a kilo.
>>30556641
Why don't we just stick to Sic3 and systems that are tested and work in the REAL world. Non of this sci fi weebo shit I keep seeing. God damn these poor fag plebs are getting dumber every month.
>>30556299
Hey
>>30556461
This guys right
>>30556521
Riot shields>power armor
Thanks.
>>30556134
>SWAT and CT groups do not have an ideal way to deal with these attacks, they don't have the option of throwing grenades
I doubt that considering that the recent Dallas shooting pretty much ended with an RCXD.
>>30556758
>Why don't we just stick to Sic3 and systems that are tested and work in the REAL world. Non of this sci fi weebo shit I keep seeing. God damn these poor fag plebs are getting dumber every month.
You need a high hardness metallic outer layer for rigid composite armor. Those high hardness ceramics are frail by themselves. The outer layer is to stop all small impacts that would degrade the ceramics. By adding a thin but high hardness metallic layer the armor is no longer able to be gradually worn down by handguns, shotguns and shrapnel. The outer layer also strips any soft parts off anything that reaches the ceramic so only a small section of the ceramic is damaged by the steel core.
Pure metallic armor is inferior because it cannot stop piercing round like the ceramics can.
These armor designs are the reason tanks went from having 200mm RHA of armor protection to 800mm+ in the 1980s without increasing the physical thickness.
You don't see them on flexible body armor because the impact force would still be transmitted to the body and stopping bigger rounds would just kill them anyway.
>>30556758
>not shrugging 7.62x51 all day
>not manually breaching walls
>not having an HK51B sidearm
>not using an M2HB like an AR
>not becoming a living god of war
>>30556134
Takes a decade or 2 to plan and design, hulk-like SOAB, welp part of them says "give a go"
>>30556193
git out.
>>30558098
fuck you man you weren't there for that thread.
>>30557862
It's rated to stop up to 40 rds of 7.62x51
>>30557862
The suit I am working on has a HUD designed by a subsidiary that made the F-35 helmet will be conducting CQC trails with it in 2 months. Helmet is rated to stop 10 7.62 x39 rds costs 4500 usd to replace...
>Can't become a war god without becoming a Cyborg first...
>>30557862
Look up Demron suits if you're interested in Low vac tactical Base layers. will block up to 50% alpha particles, X radiation, gamma radiation, high energy beta radiation and heat stress. Very pricy but they are the best in the market they make one rated for Ebola ... in Tactical Tan...http://www.radshield.com/product-category/military/
looking forward to testing these out
>>30557256
CoD babby go home.
>>30556616
>being able to be immune to conventional rifles shuts down many types of attacks
Aka...a bomb disposal robot. Much cheaper and no need to worry if its shot with a 50 cal.
>>30556758
>Stealth armor systems
>literally 1.5" thick, made of ~120layers of kevlar
It aint gonna stop a single AP round. 40rds of M80ball aint shit.
>>30556134
DARPA is quietly working on it. especially a suitable power source as that would have broader applications. Once the pieces are on the table, the US will deploy it and the Russians/Chinese will scramble to make their own versions that will be barely functional, but suitable for photo-ops.
Powered armor will be most effective in urban combat where armored vehicles are either useless or extremely vulnerable, but there is a need to storm entrenched positions.Suits will be issued like heavy weapons, with 2-5 issued to platoons that need them.
>>30556521
My reasoning is, last a long time is always going to be a compromise between performance (better = uses more power/fuel) and logistics.
Resilience to small arms is pretty much the biggest thing about armor and is really the biggest determining factor if it's going to work successfully or not. If the armor ability is increased it pretty much already increased their carrying capability.
encumberance really only matters on two major factors, it's going to slow them down and make them less able to move it's just a degree of how much. but the two factors that matter are how it encumbers them from wanting to wear it (ease of wear, nobody wants to wear it to be on standby with it. it's probably not going to get used. It's like the vision inserts on gas masks would the person intended to wear it rather just die in a gas attack because it's one step past uncomfortable it straight up hurts to wear. Like if you can't get into and out of it quickly to take a dump or something you're never going to get into and out of it quickly to respond to a threat.
Then the obvious not encumbering how it effects handles a primary weapon.
You're going to lose mobility and speed, pick any battlefield even without armor and decide how your going to move through it and suddenly you're going to realize something is going to slow you down on that route probably.
Plus user error, if it's designed for specific operating conditions you really have to consider it needs a bit of fool proofing.
Aside from that it's like if it increases your ability to survive and win a fight basically figuring out how to deploy it into the fight is someone elses problem. If it's the deciding factor on how a fight is won, winning that fight is everything. you can still lose the fight if it was a pyrrhic victory so a suit keeping someone alive and winning that fight is worth compromises.
>>30556437
It's not the cost of a life even though it's thrown in the bundle.
You're buying a symbol of power. If you got an armor suit that wins fights against a lone wolf or a few guys with an assault rifle you're going to have a lot less people picking up assault rifles for that purpose. albiet sometimes less in a darwin sense.
>>30562282
That's called a drone.
It's like power armor, except even more invulnerable, because the operator doesn't die when shot by RPGs/HMGs/sniper rifles.
