As someone not well read enough, did something happen to honor? Especially amongst soldiers? Has the crests, and elite markings and ornamentation of weapons as tokens or bravery and strength end? Has the fancy uniforms(capes, epaulets, sabers) all but disappeared?
Was it the advent of modern firearms(polymer, being commodities rather than weapons)?
Was it the Vietnam War when people disrespected returning soldiers?
Being a soldier today doesn't feel as though it's honorable as warriors of the past and I don't know if it's just misinformed nostalgia or if they were truly bigger people
Is there a warrior culture that is missing today? Could it maybe be part of why suicide rates of ex soldiers are so high? No sense of Duty or higher purpose, or a sense of honor in the work they are doing?
>muh bushido
chivalry died at agincourt
>>30555378
I know it sounds Fedora asking this question. But I am serious. I feel like soldiers are treated more as mercenaries rather than warriors if that makes sense
>>30555398
>soldiers are treated
by whom?
>more as mercenaries rather than warriors
what's the difference?
>>30555298
I'm guessing it's due to the information being so readily available and transmittable. People can see the reality of war and can decide for themselves if the reason for the war is truly just.
>>30555426
Treated by their societies. Also some of the stuff soldiers do these days seems like it would be unheard of a century or more ago.
I'm just trying to find out. I don't know if this is a valid viewpoint.
Maybe I've just played too many Knight games or something.
As for the difference. I'd say warriors are soldiers for more than just payment and benefits.
![Knights-looting[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/tWxFyX0.jpg "Knights-looting[1].jpg")
>>30555398
You've bought into a pretty myth. War has always been an ugly, ugly thing. Soldiers on both sides of WWII shot prisoners in cold blood and bombed the shit out of civilians. Smartly dressed French soldiers under Napoleon massacred Spanish villagers. Catholic knights and crusaders sacked Orthodox Constantinople and reveled in days of looting, rape, and wanton murder. Nothing happened to honor in war; there never was any.
>>30555521
Honor has always been something in measure on a personable account. Anything above is for naught.
>>30555298
There was never such a thing as honor. Chivalry was invented in the 17th century, after the end of the medieval era. The term Bushido was coined in 1899, 40 years after the samurai were abolished. They both hearken back to a time that never existed.
Demoralization, ideas #4
Thank your local closet marxist university professors
>>30555551
What the fuck are you even saying?
>>30555565
>There was never such a thing as honor
>there was never such a thing as code of lawas
>there was never such a thing as human rights
>there was never such a thing as civilization
>WITNESS ME
>>30555578
I believe he is saying that honor is judged on a person to person basis, rather than a group of people. He could also be alluding to the assumption that while the few can be honorable, the many can not; Such as a group of knights compared to an entire army
>>30555298
You deluded yourself into thinking that war is some duel between two people. For ages war was more or less down played or people actually never saw it.
Nowadays you can access the internet and see all the things that make war so "honourable"
This basically started with Vietnam where graphic images and videos of how war really was started to pop up.
>>30555576
I really wonder how people like you manage to function in society.
![554[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/GzDEDBf.gif "554[1].gif")
>>30555589
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry#Literary_chivalry_and_historical_reality
>>30555576
There's nothing honorable about war and warriors. It's just a mechanism the warrior class used to justify their violent ways and taking taxes.
Look sometimes you have to push someone's shit in, but there's nothing pretty about war, you fight to crush your enemies. Stop pretending otherwise
![Massacre_at_Drogheda[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/vdycXne.jpg "Massacre_at_Drogheda[1].jpg")
>>30555565
>Chivalry was invented in the 17th century
How amusing that the era of Oliver Cromwell felt the need to come up with the concept.
>>30555626
If that is indeed what he's saying, I fail to see any great difference in soldiers then and now when it comes to honor.
>muh honor meme
people have been killing eachother without mercy for years. You're living in a fantasy world. Combat is all about getting an unfair advantage over your opponent, no matter the fight.
The closest thing to honor you're going to get is people like pic that risk their lives trying to save their friends without hesitation despite the dangers. War is fucked up and dirty, no need to romanticize it.
>>30555660
>I fail to see any great difference in soldiers then and now when it comes to honor.
There isnt a difference, really, as it still comes down to a soldier to soldier basis. Soldiers come from two pools: Those who want to protect, and those who want to cash in on their animalistic impulses: kill, rape, feast on glory, etc. Problem is that for every one good honorable guy who brings the villagers bread, theres 30 guys who just want to fuck the villagers daughters to death and steal all their shit
>>30555298
War is never about honor. It's about killing people before they kill you. "Stand in ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
The idea of the honorable warrior has always been a romantic myth. Some people may have upheld these ideals, but it was a minority.
>>30555496
>warriors are soldiers for more than just payment and benefits
because they enjoy killing
>>30555632
Fairly well, sometimes I wonder how people who never bother to question anything make a living. Then i remembered that manual labor actually exists.
>>30555649
>aspiring to higher ideals is meaningless
>embrace the post-modern nihilistic apathy and sybaritism
>>30555650
You can't have your cake and eat it to. Either there is some honor and glory in fighting or there isn't. If not, just kill yourself right now because life is a struggle and by your logic, since it requires ugly, dirty, despicable things to be done ergo it is nothing to be proud of.
>>30555745
You don't need to kill people to feel valuable or overcome struggle. In fact there hasn't been such a peaceful time in human history in the living memory. Please take your rose tinted glasses off.
>>30555649
>/Chivalry#Literary_chivalry_and_historical_reality
>A Study of Don Quixote
>Daniel Eisenberg
Imagine that, a jew attacking a western cultural institution. Just for fun, look at these 2 pages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitism#Value
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube#Cultural_icon
who is arguing that parasitism is a good thing and who is criticizing a masculine cultural-icon? They both have one thing in common.
>>30555813
Then have fun getting killed. Competition exists at every level of life, if you create a society that simultaneously requires a standing army to protect it while criticizing and demeaning those who step up to the service, you're going to lose those that don't go shooting themselves in the foot.
I like to bring up the topic of making weapons look fancy once in a while. Apparently weapons are simply killing tools and engraving/gold plating or otherwise adding any sort of ornamental decoration or personalization that isn't a punisher skull or pink furniture is just tacky and useless is the response I usually get.
>>30555878
You don't live in the real world do you...
>>30555910
not an argument
Why do you think conscription was instituted in Vietnam? How well were the returning vets treated?
>>30555896
I think they can be very pretty. I think klonopin the tackiness comes from overweight dweebs in their late 30s who engrave stupid shit into their 1911s.
People really need some taste.
>>30555298
>As someone not well read enough, did something happen to honor? Especially amongst soldiers? Has the crests, and elite markings and ornamentation of weapons as tokens or bravery and strength end? Has the fancy uniforms(capes, epaulets, sabers) all but disappeared?
it's pretty fucking indicative that you immediately relate the concept of honor to ornate weapons and fancy uniforms.
fucking go outside already.
>>30555496
>Also some of the stuff soldiers do these days seems like it would be unheard of a century or more ago.
like what
>>30555745
>>30555856
>Everything I don't want to hear is a conspiracy by the jews
fuck off back to your containment board and stay there.
>>30555298
Honor was literally never a thing, and crests and markings only are useful for your own army to know who you are. And even then, only people too new to know what all the crests mean will actually respect them; anyone with long enough in to know what every little marking means is going to know well enough to treat you like any other random human being, whether you're their boss or subordinate or coworker.
>when fucking cadets expect me to salute them because I'm an OS
>>30555298
>ornamentation
That's the keyword key. Take into account how we still have the officer and enlisted class in practically every single standing military force today. Take into account that across each different service there is clear demarcation of between the two classes. Look into the history of how standing armies were formed and who was responsible for the upkeep, maintenance and lodging. Take into account who owned the ornamented arms and heraldry. Then maybe you might have an inkling into what you are seeking.
Ceremonial heraldry and ornamental arms served the purpose of instilling civic pride from citizens and symbolized the status and power of political leadership. From the Ancient Roman Fasces to the sidearms of officers, ornamental weaponry and intricate heraldry was used more often to signal power rather than to exert it.
>>30555298
Never existed, and honors for fags anyway.
>>30555632
>>30555650
>>30555521
>>30555737
>>30556476
>>30557535
Holy Shit. Look at all these fags. Only one of you gave any indication of being in military, and was an OS at that. Go shine some more brass and stop being so high and mighty.
>>30555298
>did something happen to honor?
Not reading is a poor excuse for not knowing that honorfags are dumbasses.
Honor was basically code for "stop fighting me wrong." The military equivalent of the Rexkwando Sensei asking the guy in Napoleon Dynamite to grab his wrist the other way.
>>30555298
Considering that some armies follow international laws and don't rape, rob or kill civilians, we have more "honour" than any prior period. As for warrior culture shit, there are still people like the Gurkas who are beyond brave, but most of us are too pampered.
>>30555298
>Being a soldier today doesn't feel as though it's honorable as warriors of the past and I don't know if it's just misinformed nostalgia or if they were truly bigger people
It's misinformed nostalgia, pretty much every land war before (and perhaps including) the Revolutionary War is a pretty good example of that.
>We don't like those guys, let's kill some of their civilians.
>They killed our civilians in retaliation, let's kill more of theirs!
>Oh shit the Yuro land war that sparked this conflict has been resolved and we're back to status quo ante bellum so everyone died for nothing and anyone who managed to survive an amputation is now a jobless bum.
Not to mention all the dumb shit that's gone on elsewhere in the world and pretty much any surprise attack or ambush ever.
>>30557711
>pretty much every land war
*pretty much every American land war
Also checking my triple dubs.
