Every /k/ommando who carries needs to watch this video if they don't have police/military training. If you have autism watch it twice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWNI8U_qqaU
>>30515885
this reminds me of watching my sisters kid explain the first time i took her shooting to her mother. only thing thats missing is the umms and uhhs
>>30515885
>fish eye lens
>power stroke instead of slide release
I've lasted 10 seconds, no thanks.
>>30515885
I've taken some classes from TR and they are a pretty good group, but this guy has a flaming skull shirt so opinion discounted.
>>30516008
you should have probably watched it twice.
>>30516008
I never understood why people did the power stroke, or reloaded an AR with the charging handle.
I just use the slide/bolt release, and I'm a lefty ffs.
>>30515885
we used to call these zombie outbreak or nightmare scenarios. They weren't made to culminate in the group coming out victorious. They were made to fuck your thought processes up and essentially smoke check people that weren't taking shit seriously and somewhat reinforce best habits while pointing out bad ones.
before people fag out over the use of "zombie" it essentially boiled down to room clearing with multiple armed people in full MOPP 4 with any civilians in the embassy given the opportunity to fuck with us however they wanted. stupid shit happened and you kept moving you just pushed as much focus as you possibly could.
basically this dudes point is he didn't realize how shitty a full retard scenario can go. Problem is there aren't that many instances of a good guy with a gun accidentally shooting a cop or a bystander and if it all came down to it i'd much rather get shot by the good guy on accident than some mudslime on purpose
>>30516103
The powerstroke is the same with every pistol and doesn't require any fine motor skills or precision finger placement which may be lacking when under the effects of adrenaline.
>>30515885
What a fucking clown.
>>30516179
Ah okay. That makes sense.
>>30516179
>The powerstroke is the same with every pistol
so is the slide release
>and doesn't require any fine motor skills or precision finger placement which may be lacking when under the effects of adrenaline.
How are you going to drop the mag and insert a new one if you lack the fine motor skills to hit the slide release?
>>30516008
>>30516103
>>power stroke instead of slide release
>I've lasted 10 seconds, no thanks.
b-but thats what fagpul DIEnamics said do.....
>>30515885
>there's smoke, it's dark, you just heard a bunch of loud bangs that could be gunshot
>3:20
>so you go in...
that's where I closed the video
>>30516195
>so is the slide release
no
>How are you going to drop the mag and insert a new one if you lack the fine motor skills to hit the slide release?
people can drop mags by accident for fucks sake...
>>30516233
kek
>>30516252
>no
yes
>people can drop mags by accident for fucks sake...
Not an argument, and I could say the exact same about the slide release.
>>30516264
>yes
no
>Not an argument, and I could say the exact same about the slide release.
yeah, with their left hand.
>>30516307
What is your argument?
If someone doesn't have the manual dexterity to hit a slide release, how are they going to hit the mag release and change mags?
>>30516315
my argument is it's almost universally easier to drop a mag than hit a "slide release"
>>30516328
How?
One is depressing a button with your thumb, the other is depressing a lever with your thumb.
Those 2 controls are about an inch away from each other.
Also, you still have the mag change to deal with.
>>30516341
have you even used a pistol other than a glock? the "slide release" is hard to reach on some guns, difficult to press on some guns, etc.
>>30516355
Having a slide release that is difficult to hit is a different situation and a separate argument, and not what you were arguing, nor what I was arguing.
>>30516383
uhh... well by all means if you are using a pistol with a perfectly placed and easy to use "slide release" and don't mind using the same gun for eternity or training to use several different pistol's "slide releases" and are not worried about any other issue with using a "slide release" then use the "slide release".
>>30516402
So you have no argument.
>>30516402
To be fair, there's a lot of faggots out there that solely use Glock and won't touch anything else.
>>30516355
Glocks don't even really have slide releases. They made the slide lock so that it can be used as a release in pinch but it's not recommended.
>>30516435
What? I literally just laid out all the benefits of not worrying about a slide release in my last reply.
>>30516469
Nice. I've heard people complain about them but I thought it was just an isolated incident since I've never had difficulty with one.
>>30516470
There was no argument in that post.
It was just a pile of passive aggressive vague backhanded talk mixed with hyperbole.
>>30516469
>Glocks don't even really have slide releases.
Then why copy the design of a slide release?
>>30516507
1. not every gun has a perfectly placed and easy to use "slide release"
2. different guns have differently placed slide releases which requires additional training to use effectively
3. there are other issues with using a slide release including not getting a full stroke of the slide to bring a round into battery
4. you're a dumb faget
>>30516531
>1. not every gun has a perfectly placed and easy to use "slide release"
That's an argument for a specific gun, not a general argument.
It's also unconnected from your initial argument.
>2. different guns have differently placed slide releases which requires additional training to use effectively
A slide release is on the button of the slide, and within reach of your thumb.
Besides, you could make the same argument for mag releases.
>3. there are other issues with using a slide release including not getting a full stroke of the slide to bring a round into battery
That's ridiculous. Power stroking gives you worse forward slide velocity due to the friction between your hand and the slide.
>4. you're a dumb faget
Madposting doesn't make you look better.
>>30516590
>blahblahblah
Your only argument is that a slide release is as easy to use as a mag release which is clearly not a general argument. My argument is that they are generally not, and even if they were, if you want to use multiple guns it would be advantageous in at least one respect to ditch the slide release since it is unnecessary additional training because a powerstroke will do the same thing except better.
>That's ridiculous. Power stroking gives you worse forward slide velocity due to the friction between your hand and the slide.
now you're either just shitposting or a literal retard.
>>30516651
>>blahblahblah
>>30516684
no you didn't and that's not an argument.
>>30516693
I did stop there, and I'm not replying to a post that starts with shit like that
>>30516751
no you didn't.
>>30516402
Or you can hit the slide stop with your left hand thumb and it'll work with literally any gun with a slide stop
>>30516651
>now you're either just shitposting or a literal retard.
have you never heard of someone riding the charging handle or slide forward? This is not uncommon.
Also powerstroking the gun will oftentimes inadvertently engage the safety on a Beretta.
>>30516195
>so is the slide release
Every pistol has it in a different place.
>How are you going to drop the mag and insert a new one if you lack the fine motor skills to hit the slide release?
Thats easy and doesn't really require fine motor skills.
>>30516831
>have you never heard of someone riding the charging handle or slide forward? This is not uncommon.
yes but that has nothing to do with "friction between your hand and the slide" and is also assuming incompetence.
>>30516877
>yes but that has nothing to do with "friction between your hand and the slide"
you literally do not understand high school level physics
>>30516165
Translation:
We don't have a syllabus, or even know what that is....We just needed something flashy to fill up the time.
>>30516402
So.... we should be spending our precious training dollars preparing for a nightmare scenario where we're using somebody else's gun?
>>30516195
>so is the slide release
Oh?
>>30516903
"riding the slide forward" has nothing to do with friction. it's from retards moving their hand forward with the slide instead of just letting go.
The powerstroke has potential to inadvertantly ride the slide forward though which can jam. Using the slide stop gives 100% consistent forward acceleration
>>30516859
>Every pistol has it in a different place.
There is literally like 1" variation in placement, absolutely tops. Hit that bitch with your left thumb, it will work with anything from a 1911 (slide stop far forward) to a sig (slide stop far back).
>Thats easy and doesn't really require fine motor skills.
Never heard of european style mag releases on the heel of the grip? What about button vs paddle?
>>30516908
Sometimes the best training is harder than it should be in real life. If all your SWAT training involved shooting a lone gangbanger with a fucking hipoint and halfloaded mag you would be sorely unprepared for a no shit hostage rescue.
>>30516941
no, you should take into account the fact that different guns will require more training if you plan on using them and weigh the pros and cons from there based on your personal preferences and life goals.
>>30516810
There you go again, making those corn-fed yokels look stupid.
>>30516945
>continued lack of understanding of what friction means
>>30516985
for fuck's sake why would someone say "the static friction between the hand and the slide" instead of "riding the slide forward" if that's what they meant. just no. fuck off.
>Fine motor control is the coordination of muscles, bones, and nerves to produce small, exact movements. An example of fine motor control is picking up a small item with the index finger (pointer finger or forefinger) and thumb.
>The opposite of fine motor control is gross (large, general) motor control. An example of gross motor control is waving an arm in greeting.
Running the slide = fine motor skill
Pressing a slide release = fine motor skill
Pulling a trigger = fine motor skill
Typing "fine vs. gross motor skills" on a keyboard = fine motor skill
Basically everything you do with a firearm short of hitting somebody with it is a fine motor skill. Pick something, practice it repeatedly, and quit pretending science justifies your bullshit. Dumbasses.
>>30516810
I saw this in a Haley video and felt dumb for not doing it before. It's infinitely better than using the gun hand for dropping the slide
>>30516999
>autism speaks
sometimes people don't have the same terminology as you.
>>30517020
only someone with autism would opt for "friction between the hand and the slide" over "riding the slide forward"
Ya know, it's fun to fuck with these 400 lb range dildos...
I have about 50,000 rounds downrange in USPSA. I worked for a guy who did a LOT of training of CCW types before they were really popular. He didn't give a shit what you shot or brought to a class, as long as it was 9mm or larger, and safe.
Slide release or manual? Didn't care. He'd beat you every time dropping the slide with his left thumb though.
Revolver or semi-auto? Didn't care- he'd beat you with his Model 19 OR .45 auto. Keeping track or reloading in his class? He didn't care- it was YOUR responsibility to keep track of how many rounds you have remaining, or when to reload. It was on you. Yeah, you'd see the revolver guys struggle one or twice, but they got the idea.
His classes were repetitive, but they worked. He'd have you do one shot from the leather until you thought your eyes would bleed, but you got good at them. Then we move onto two shot from the leather. And so on.
These fucking hucksters need to be called out for the quick-buck artists they are.
>>30515885
It sounds like the guy was just so worried about surviving that he thought he had to shoot everything. Its like these people forget its not a video game and you can talk to people.
>>30517015
Thank you for speaking the truth.
>>30516968
3 actually, and it still makes a difference.
>Never heard of european style mag releases on the heel of the grip?
Not common anymore, and it also would definitely cause problems for people.
>What about button vs paddle?
I use a technique that works with both since I have both.
>>30517015
Running the slide is not really a fine motor skill. You could do it off your belt.
>>30517166
Perhaps, but grabbing it -- like every last one of you gross motor skill retards espouse as a default response when reloading -- definitely is, autist.
>>30517184
Not really. You can't grab things under the effect of adrenaline? Do you drop your gun too?
>>30517191
The effects of adrenaline -- or lack thereof -- have absolutely nothing to do with whether something is a fine or gross motor skill. Dumbass.
>>30517204
Adrenaline adversely affects your fine motor skills. Albert Einstein.
The reduction in fine motor skills is not an excuse for using a control incorrectly. It is a reason for training.
Bad training is bad code- and that's what these clowns provide.
>>30517238
A reduction in fine motor skills is a reason to not want to rely on using something that requires fine motor skills when you have other options.
>>30517216
Nowhere near to the level of making somebody physically incapable of repeating an action they've drilled repeatedly, as so often espoused.
If you can exercise enough fine motor skills to pull the trigger, you have enough control to press a slide release with either thumb. You also have enough to grab a slide. Or hold onto a gun. Or press a magazine release. The presence of adrenaline doesn't immediately turn you into a some down's syndrome case who is only capable of flailing your arms around. Though in your case, it certainly sounds as if you're already at that level.
>>30517257
Once again: grabbing something using your fingers is the textbook definition of a fine motor skill. Every competent developmental psychologist on the planet would concur with that statement. You dumbass.
>>30517285
>If you can grab a slide you can also play a beautiful concerto on the violin
your attempt at just lumping everything together because it supports your argument is laughable. racking a slide will always be easier than finding a slide catch.
>>30517338
except it will also always be slower
fact of the matter is that elite units have been teaching and successfully using the slide stop for many years in actual combat now. you don't have to listen to pseudoscientist mall ninjas anymore.
>>30517386
wow elite units huh? cool.
marines have been taught both. both have pros and cons. I don't give a shit what you do. I'm going to rack the slide.
>>30517418
Elite units meaning SOF from all branches.
Nobody gives a shit what you learn in the muhreens, if you're enough of a cool guy to get sent to T1G and shoot on the Roger's Range you will sure as hell wish you were a slide stop user.
>>30517338
And your attempt at equating one simple movement with the next isn't laughable? Furthermore, your example merely proves my point: under stress, you can perform complex actions which you have practiced repeatedly. We wouldn't expect your autistic ass to get up on stage in front of a crowd and do anything right without a fair bit of practice (and maybe training wheels), would we?
Racking the slide is not necessarily any easier to do. Using the slide release requires me to either sweep my firing hand thumb down or hit it with my non-firing hand thumb as I re-establish my grip. Wow, that's really hard. It's definitely harder to hit than the smaller magazine release I had to hit to drop the magazine.
>>30517445
You keep implying any and all uses of the hand under stress are equally difficult and you're still wrong.
>>30517475
No, I'm implying that pressing a button isn't some vast, insurmountable obstacle that's automatically present the second your heart rate gets up. Millions of people perform significantly more complex tasks under pressure daily. And they're not all concert violinists or surgeons, either, despite your laughable attempts to equate pressing a button with such behavior.
You keep implying that the general population isn't capable of pressing a button that's bigger than the button they had to press to get to the point to where they'd have to apply your idiotic logic. Maybe you're that infirm, but that doesn't mean everybody else is.
>>30517538
I never implied any of that. I implied racking a slide is going to be easier because it is.
>>30515885
>glock manual says power stroke instead of high release
This is literally the first time I've heard this, and I find the claim dubious. Someone post the page from your glock manual saying that you should magpul dynamics instead of using the design feature that is universal in semi automatic handguns.
>>30517578
except it's slower
aka just fucking practice nigga
>>30517578
>If you can grab a slide you can also play a beautiful concerto on the violin
>>30517338
Your words, not mine.
Furthermore, your initial response had to come up with some convoluted one-handed malfunction clearance bullshit to say that grabbing the slide wasn't a fine motor skill, as seen >>30517166. You then say here >>30517191 that adrenaline determines whether something is a fine or gross motor skill, which is objectively false. You then resort to moving the goal posts here >>30517216, here >>30517338, and >>30517475 here, primarily because you have no clue what you're talking about.
And no, it isn't necessarily any easier. It's a very, very simple movement that on most pistols is accessible with the firing hand thumb, and for those with slide releases like a 1911, can easily (and properly) be hit with the support hand thumb as you re-establish your grip. As the other guy keeps stating, it's also significantly faster.
>>30517681
I am both awestruck and saddened by your determination to go through so many posts but your assessment is an absolute clusterfuck. My greentext you quoted was just mocking you. My argument has been that racking the slide is easier under stress and more universal from the beginning of the thread and that's still true no matter how many times you say it isn't.
>>30517621
>"After the last round has been fired, the slide remains open. Remove the empty magazine from
the weapon by pushing the magazine catch (19). Insert a new magazine and then either push
the slide stop lever (27) downwards (see photo), or pull the slide slightly backwards and allow it
to spring forwards. The weapon is now again secured and ready to fire."
>and then either push
the slide stop lever (27) downwards (see photo), or pull the slide slightly backwards and allow it
to spring forwards.
http://stevespages.com/pdf/glock.pdf
I have no idea where that came from, desu.
>>30517768
Thanks for the citation. I don't see a clear recommendation, though, so I'm not sure why there's so much vitriol over the manual of arms of semiautomatic pistols in this thread.
Slide release requires one hand, I don't know why someone would think using two to go backwards to send your slide both backwards then go forwards would expedite the process of just letting it go forward.
>>30517621
The reason they do is because their slide stop can't take much use as a slide release, and break.
This is the big secret reason Cleetus the slack-jawed power-stroking yokel wants to force everyone else to have to slow down to match the Glock's slow slide manipulation during a reload.
Truth hurts.
>>30517766
kys
Nobody cares about easier, that's why you train. If you wanted everything to be "easy under stress" and universal you should probably just rip the mag out every single time, and then run the slide with your belt. Or maybe you could just train and then use the slide stop like a shit ton of successful SOF guys.
Nobody cares about universality, it's not like I'm going to forget what kind of pistol I'm holding in my fucking hand. Even if I have to hunt for that slide stop because I missed it the first time, I will still be faster than if I went for the slide itself.
>>30515885
Thanks for posting this.
>>30517833
>Slide release requires one hand
anyone who actually knows what they're doing will push it with their left hand as they establish their grip.
>I don't know why someone would think using two to go backwards to send your slide both backwards then go forwards would expedite the process of just letting it go forward.
nobody said it was faster.
>>30517848
>Nobody cares about easier
I do. You should too.
>Nobody cares about universality
I do. You should too.
>>30517766
>i never said that
Posts where you did
>i can't believe you actually looked
Yes, under the stress of your superior knowledge of basic body mechanics and argumentative techniques, I had to work very hard to scroll up half a page. It's a wonder that I got it done, when I could have simply taken the easier route and played a violin with adrenaline or some shit.
You were wrong. Get over it.
>>30517870
>hurr I use techniques that will be less effective 99.99% of the time I use my pistol, solely so I can be a little better (maybe) in the 0.01% black swan scenario.
>I can't refute any of your arguments so I'll just cherry pick your opening remarks
>>30517883
I'm not wrong though...
>>30517870
Jesus, it's almost like you don't practice at all with those pistols you don't own.
>>30516008
I lasted about that long too
>this nigger is taking 20 minutes to explain his slide release choice?
I really hate youtube, get to the fucking point asshole.
>>30517893
>hurr I use techniques that will be less effective 99.99% of the time I use my pistol
how many gunfights have you been in that required you to reload?
>I can't refute any of your arguments
Nobody cares about your arguments
>>30517913
The video had nothing to do with slide releases. This thread has just been overrun by literal autists.
>>30517927
>how many gunfights have you been in that required you to reload?
How many gunfights have you been in period? Properly redacted DD-214 showing a CIB/CAR or equivalent or news article showing LE or private citizen involved shooting pls.
>>30515885
>I killed the two terrorists
>After I got shot in the side with a rifle
k
>>30517913
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMcc9OmjmWQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drD12-dySf0
>>30517927
>not even trying to make a logical argument anymore
>You probably won't need to reload, so just use a slow reload method! Why? Because you might have to use someone else's pistol! Also because I'm a piece of shit who can't hit the slide stop unlike people who actually train.
100% irrefutable logic.
>>30517957
I'll take that response to mean zero. I've also been in zero gunfights. I hear your fine motor skills are impaired when under stress though.
>>30517900
Your mom.
>>30517962
Nobody cares
>>30517971
Well when plenty of people who have been in literal life or death stress (Mike Pannone, Pat Mac, Frank Proctor, etc.) are all saying use the fucking slide stop, why don't you listen?
>>30517971
Nobody said they weren't. What we are saying is that the impairment isn't enough to justify adopting an objectively worse technique in order to compensate for the non-existent detriment.
>>30517991
Plenty of people who have been in literal life or death stress say to rack the slide.
>>30517989
obviously you do since you keep digging your fucking hole deeper?
>>30517995
>objectively worse
I don't think that means what you think it means.
>>30518004
nc
>>30518000
If your supporting cast includes James Yeager, you're probably wrong.
>>30517864
I disagree. Maybe in 3 gun or some other type of unnecessarily highly technical application. If your left hand is inserting the mag, you can press your right hand's thumb down on that release and then adjust your sight picture.
Combat is not about needlessly maximizing your ergonomics.
>>30518000
Names? How many of them are actually credible?
>>30517845
Seems like keeping your 4 banger under 2000 RPMs for longevity, except in this case you're in a life or death scenario. Kind of dumb...
>>30518016
One of the videos in this thread demonstrates it on a timer. Plenty of other videos do the same. So yes, from a performance standpoint, it's worse.
You've yet to demonstrate that moving a thumb to press a button that's right there is somehow any harder than moving your entire hand, grabbing a piece of metal in the right place, pulling it back, and remembering to let go so as not to ride the slide home.
>>30518058
One requires precise use of a single finger. The other can be done with your entire hand grabbing anywhere on the slide.
>>30518044
Oddly enough, it's the slide release spring that breaks on Glocks with high round counts, not the slide release itself. Same part that breaks on SIGs, HKs, and basically any other gun which has a spring there. Glock's replacement interval for that part is 15,000 rounds as of the last armorer's manual, which is about on par with most other manufacturers. HKs are good through 25,000 rounds IIRC.
The little bit of deformation you see on a Glock slide release with heavy use doesn't prevent it from working, and you see similar deformation on other types of pistols as well. No surprise really, since there's a big and heavy piece of metal repeatedly hitting a small and light piece of metal.
>>30518123
>precise use of a single finger
>hitting a tab with your left thumb
Uhh... is pressing your spacebar hard for you?
>>30518146
Are you under the effects of adrenaline when you shitpost on 4chan?
>>30518123
>movement of the thumb is too hard
>let's do a movement of all five fingers instead
It's not a trigger pull and there's no need for precision. All you have to do is sweep it. On most pistols that aren't M&P Shields, it barely takes any movement of the slide release. Which, once again, is bigger than the magazine release you had to press in order to get to this point.
>>30518141
15,000 rounds is also the same amount recommended for replacing the firing pin as well, though. I'm not seeing the argument.
>this whole thread
https://youtu.be/K7cyQlsUQ6E?t=86
>>30518169
So... hitting something with your thumb that is currently holding the firearm is harder than taking the end of your other appendage to grasp with multiple digits the object in your other hand, pulling backwards to overcome the largest spring resistance of the machine, and releasing?
I'm not following...
>>30518214
Yes.
>>30515885
If it's one lesson, it shouldn't take 17 minutes
What's the lesson faggot
>>30518189
is he... doing a parody of himself?
![Gross-Motor-Skills-Rifle-Magazine-Reload[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gFzSC6l.jpg "Gross-Motor-Skills-Rifle-Magazine-Reload[1].jpg")
>>30516179
GROSS MOTOR SKILL
>>30516944
oh wow it's even easier to hit than 99% of guns
>>30518254
tl;dr - he did simunition training and totally fucked up under pressure, shot multiple civilian players. People respond differently under pressure and you can only know this by working under pressure, not at the range with regular drills.
>>30517015
using the slide is palm, not digit. your mittens work better as mittens than gloves.
>>30515885
This video shouldn't have lasted longer than one minute. Why is he so assfuckingly long-winded? Does he love the sound of his own voice THAT much?
>>30518267
>Your fingers will never do the working for Phuc Long
>>30518930
How is power stroking going to stop you from shooting civilians?
>>30516179
>doesn't require any fine motor skills
You mean like pulling a trigger, pressing a magazine release, aligning sights, etc.?
ITT: Weapons grade autism.
Holy fuck this faggot is a retard. He gets shot right away, which would have ended him. But he thinks he is still in the fight and sprays and prays, killing civies. Then he shoots a cop.
All this video proves is he is a fucking retard who has zero calm under pressure. Some people have calm under pressure. This guy doesn't.
>>30516179
You probably should not be using a firearm if you can not control your 'fingures' under the effect of 'adrenaline'. You make it sound like you are having a fucking seizure.
>>30519842
It won't, and it was only mentioned in passing in the video. The people arguing in this thread are idiots
>>30517913
I can tell you didn't watch the video because of your explanation of the video.
>>30516179
IF YOU TRY TO USE PRECISION MOTOR SKILL TO RELOAD YOUR WEAPON YOU WILL LITERALLY DIE
>>30516103
Some handguns have a slide stop (i.e. M&Ps) so you need to power stoke/slingshot the slide when locked open. I do agree with you on the AR bolt release.
>>30519923
Do you really think the average autist here would fare any better?
>>30519923
Go take the class and tell us how you do, faggot.
https://tacticalresponse.com/collections/training/products/active-shooter
