So anons, what do you think about this? Keep it in mind that our PM said that 45 million is the price of one MiG 29, and that its as high as we are able to go per plane. Is there any better solution than MiG? I know that they will integrate good with our AF since we are already using them, but is there any other viable alternative?
Would they consider buying a used ones?
>>30511408
From what I understand we plan to buy MiG-29M/M2 variants, and they want them to be new.
>>30511435
Mikoyan-Gurevich scandal regarding their handling of Algerian contract really killed their rep.
So far (as in, for the last 10 years), there hasn't been any Mig-29 customers except india, who had signed contract for Mig-29k before the algerian shitstorm started
>>30511520
Egypt ordered 50 Mig-29M/M2
I don't fucking know why
I visited an airbase in Israel once and they had 5 MiG-29's lined up. The guide wouldn't say what they were for. They're not even listed as a user.
>>30511629
They wanted more F-16's but Obama is hostile to the anti-muslim brotherhood/anti-palestinian government.
>>30511533
>not posting the superior variant
pleb
>>30511330
As much as I like the looks of the MiG-29 it is pretty shit compared to any other 4th gen. Even the MiG-29M/29M2/29K/35 is doesnt offer anything that any other 4th gen can do better.
The price is good if it really is 45m $, but that doesnt really matter as much as the operating costs wich I imagine is rather high since it is a twin engine and has a short engine life.
>Buying a Mig when every Su-27 derivative is supermaneuverable and longer ranged
Mig-29 is a proven air superiority fighter but it does not have muti-role operational functionality. Its avionics is analog and its aerodynamics is outdated especially when it comes to turn rate and RCS. Su-30MKI is overall a more viable alternative as it fares better against Typhoon in both A2A and ground strike role.
>>30511654
as always, false flag attacks. Kappa.
No, for real, those might be used in training to simulate the most likely enemies, or to test detection and targeting systems of newly developed avionics/missiles.
>>30511761
F-5 has 2 engine compared to F-16 yet F-5 has lower maintenance cost compared to F-16
>>30511805
>conveniently forgetting Mig-35
>>30511330
>PM said that 45 million is the price of one MiG 29
Pretty much means they are willing to buy MiG-35.
>>30511520
>Algerian contract really killed their rep
Didn't have anything to do with MiG itself, it was some specific corrupted manufacturer that sold MiG shitty details.
>>30511761
MiG-29K and MiG-35 are very good, especially if you consider the price.
>>30511912
>F-5 has 2 engine compared to F-16 yet F-5 has lower maintenance cost compared to F-16
That might be true however the engines of the the MiG-29 is much larger than those of the F-5 and I know for a fact that the RD-33 is very maintanence demanding.
>>30511805
>it does not have muti-role operational functionality
What is this, a joke?
>Its avionics is analog
This is outright bullshit. Stop posting.
>>30511953
It's also piss cheap. Abovementioned Algeria, albeit declining the corrupted contract, proceeded to operate its MiG-29 fleet and is very much glad with it.
>>30511946
>MiG-29K and MiG-35 are very good, especially if you consider the price.
The cost of buying the aircraft is nothing compared to the operational lifetime costs and the flighthour cost.
Sure, you might get a good deal getting them for 45 million a pice, wich admittably is much cheaper than anyting that isnt a used Gripen C but actually flying them is what costs much.
>>30511654
Israel acquired 15 MiG-29's from Ukraine and Russia in about 2009 for training and aggressor simulation.
There has been talks of buying new 29's or, just new planes for the past 10 years, if not more. I lost my faith in it, i also don't know what happened to those Russian hand me down planes we were supposed to get, that are PM promised way back after the millitary parade. Oh well. We can dream.
>>30512058
I bet it's because guys you have in charge don't want to piss off EU by buying Russian stuff.
>>30511912
>>conveniently forgetting Mig-35
not him but fact his that you can see those Mig-35 in the same manner as the past Su-27M (T-10M) prototypes.
When they were out and on trials even India and other states were interested on them,one prototype even served on the VVS then the remaining fleet flew under the Russian Knights colors only to end somewhere in Kubinka as museum relics or gate guardians.
10 years later the Su-35E become a thing but how many nations have ordered it?
>>30512136
That's a dumb assumption to make.
We bought 10 Mi-17v5's just recently. A couple were delivered a few days ago.
We bought equipment for the modernization of our G-4 and J-22's.
Anything we bought in god knows how long came strictly from Russia. And we don't buy much.
We were also disscusing S-300 sales, but the deal fell through because we are too poor.
Pic related, our PM Pussy mouth, being handed S-300 model by Dimitri Rogozin.
>>30511978
Daily remainder that Mig-29 9-12/9-13 and possibly SMT and other versions could carry only two kind of missiles,so if you had Alamo and Archer bombs or Krypton were out of the equation as the computer could not handle them.
I don't know a flying poo about Indian Fulcrums but I've suspects that it might be the same for their aircrafts too
>>30512227
Are you... Retarded?
A Mig-29 can carry R-73, R-77, R-27 Family, R-60, R-60M.. Maybe i'm missing some.
>>30512262
>>30512272
Mig-29K is beautiful
>>30511330
>still buying 4th gen fighters in the current year
lol
>>30512183
Su-27M has nothing to do with Su-35S.
>how many nations have ordered it
To how many nations was it offered is the right question to ask.
>>30512216
>Dimitri Rogozin
DELET. Jesus Christ, I hate this cunt with passion. He's like Midas, only that instead of gold he fucks up everything he touches.
>>30512227
>Daily remainder that Mig-29 9-12/9-13
Daily reminder that everything past 9.12/13 is very much capable of carrying out multi-role missions. Especially the Fulcrum versions relevant nowadays - 9.41 and 9.61
>>30511330
Not in the viable world man. Here is the biggest issue, air to air combat is not so much kinematics as it is first strike and stealth. At least at this particular iteration of technology.
You are stuck with Migs because its Russian, and its what Serbia buys. So what can get the most mileage out of the migs? You need ECM, ECCM to defeat sensors/ radar and missiles, and good sensors/ radar.
The MIG is a bit dated in that department, but there are options. Replacing the radar package is the least invasive but most expensive, but will give you the most bang for your buck. Dont worry about stealth on a Mig-29, it just wont give the benefit vs investment when compared to the enemy you would fight with it.
For all the rest, Pods and wireless, secure, datalinks. Dont worry about routing wires, just do it it ultra short range, wireless. Cheapest, lightest.
tl/dr: You need missiles, missile guidance, and anti missile. for all the rest you have SAMs. Glorious dogfights mean you are fighting an offensive war, or are being invaded and your ground forces are already over run.
>>30512216
nice model kit
>>30512216
"WHAT IS THIS? AIR DEFENSE FOR ANTS?! ITS GOING TO NEED TO BE AT LEAST....THREE TIMES THIS BIG!!!"
>>30512183
>10 years later the Su-35E become a thing but how many nations have ordered it?
China. Rumor is Vietnam is considering it
>>30512477
joke on you, he fucked himself up
http://en.news-4-u.ru/deputy-prime-minister-dmitry-rogozin-shot-himself-in-the-leg-and-went-to-hospital-interfax.html
>>30512362
Muh nigga.
>>30512531
>In 2008, current Deputy Prime Minister received a broken leg in a sports contest between teams of the Russian permanent mission and the office of the NATO
Kek, didn't hear about that.
>>30512486
You are saying all that as if they are going to buy 9.12.
>>30512550
>>30512550
cann't wait for its debut combat in Syria this october
>>30512720
Why, did they announce they are going to deploy Kuznetsov to Syria?
>>30512778
Yes
>>30512262
Can on airshows and photos ops doesn't mean can carry and fire them all if SHTF
It has the compatibility but the internal system only allows you to choose and fire only two missiles,so you can have a Fulcrum with 4 Archer and 2 Alamo and he'll be able to fire them all,or you can have Fulcrum with 2 of a kind and it will be able to fire only the Alamo missiles.
>>30512272
Even the Mig-21-93 had his stores with up to date missiles but I highly doubt it could carry and fire Alamo missiles,mind you the tech that was once on said prototype made his way through the Mig-21 Bison and Lancer version but besides photo ops and airshow loads they only carry Archer missiles
>>30512778
don't you read news, anon?
it is quite the topic last week
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3424393
>>30512432
>B-but muh stealth
Not like the US would sell them F-35s anyway.
>>30512778
>Always that fucking tugboat.
Kek.
>>30512477
>Daily reminder that everything past 9.12/13 is very much capable of carrying out multi-role missions. Especially the Fulcrum versions relevant nowadays - 9.41 and 9.61
From wiki (lulz)
MiG-29UBM (Product 9.61)
Two-seat training variant of the MiG-29M. Never built. Effectively continued under the designation 'MiG-29M2'.
9.41 nothing found but if you are referring to the SMT those are just upgraded on both 9.12 9.13 and UB variants
>>30511330
Surely you wouldn't be interested in buying some... slightly used ones, for a better price, would you?
>>30512784
>>30512842
Benis status: unzipped.
>>30511330
>Keep it in mind that our PM said that 45 million is the price of one MiG 29, and that its as high as we are able to go per plane. Is there any better solution than MiG?
Why are you spending 45 million dollars per plane to give NATO more targets?
>>30512778
Considering the state of the Kuzn (and the general capabilities even if it weren't in such a state) andw wide array of available air bases in Syria, the Kuz isn't a force multiplier but a propaganda project. Might even be to the very slight detriment of to the operation, since now they have to feed another big fucked on the sea that doesn't bring much to the table.
>>30513113
>ski ramp
This belongs in the trash
>>30512792
>you can have a Fulcrum with 4 Archer and 2 Alamo and he'll be able to fire them all
What's the problem again?
>I highly doubt it could carry and fire Alamo missiles
The whole point of MiG-21-93 was to make it compatible with modern missiles.
>>30513180
I'd also say its to give their carrier actual experience in the field, since it almost never out at sea.
>>30513180
Who cares if it's propaganda I just want to see the Mig-29 K in action.
>be serbia
>arsenal still full of old worn M70AB2
>lack modern armor corps
>lack COIN capabilities
>"We better buy some migs"
Why bother? Its not like albania is going to dogfight you with a bunch of F16s or something stupid.
>>30513259
Exactly what I was wondering; who's the regional enemy you need security against?
>>30513259
Fear the albozerg chink MiG-21 knockoffs
>>30513251
Most of the sorties are going to be CAP. Ski ramp limits the weight for air to ground ops. Unless they jew the fuel, which is possibility.
>>30512906
9.31 is original MiG-29K from the late 80s, 9.41 is modern MiG-29K, 9.47 is MiG-29KUB, 9.61 is MiG-35, 9.67 is MiG-35D.
>if you are referring to the SMT those are just upgraded on both 9.12 9.13 and UB variants
SMT is 9.17 and it does carry multi-role armament.
>>30513215
>What's the problem again?
What's yours?
Even if it's effin compatible with any given weapon inside the whole Russia compound,operationally It can only carry two type of missiles,not three and maybe cause and I'm not into the newest SMT variants cause that fucking hump made it fugly,so maybe if the radar/computer can differentiate between air to air mode and air to ground mode it can carry a2g stuff too.Otherwise you are back to point 1 or like the Av-8B who could not use any other equipment but iron bombs on his belly rack so they had to trick the computer on saying we're totally placing an Mk-82 here but in truth is a CBU so deal with it
>>30511330
Instead of buying planes, serbs should buy S-300 with other medium range systems.
They certainly would get some sort of a discount
>>30513180
it is mostly for testing new aircraft( Mi-29K and Ka-52K) and crew training
>>30513141
Why is the US spending 5 billion dollars per ship to give Varshavyankas more targets?
>>30513180
And what is wrong with its general capabilities?
>Kuz isn't a force multiplier but a propaganda project
Stop tagging everything Russia does as propaganda, please. It's for training and giving pilots combat experience on the first place.
>>30513191
Your shitposting belongs to the trash.
>>30513318
Where the flying fuck are you even getting this bullshit from?
>>30513259
>Why bother?
Take a wild guess :^)
>>30512842
Neat.
I wonder how many times it will break down en-route
>>30513491
b-but migs don't break down
>>30513491
>I wonder how many times it will break down en-route
too many to count
but seriously, the chinese seem doing fine with their carrier
probably because it run on an Ukraine engine, not a Russian one
>>30513612
Are you retarded? They both run on the same TV-12-4 turbines and they are Soviet.
>>30512878
That's because it's one of two tugboats of this class built for the USSR by Finland in the late 80s. The other is SB-135 Fotiy Krylov.
>>30513834
there are Soviet Russia and there are Soviet Ukraine
>>30513180
45 planes and 15 helis isn't a force multiplier?
You realize the Russians currently only have 40 planes and 20 helis in Syria, right?
>>30513988
The difference in 1985 was practically nonexistent.
Practically everyone in Eastern Ukraine was Russian.
>>30513988
There was USSR.
>>30511330
Is the Mig 29 really that cheap? Aren't the huehues selling their shitty prop trainers for $20 mil?
>>30514204
It is piss cheap. MiG-29K is $32 mil. MiG-35 with AESA, MAWS and all that fancy stuff is $40 mil.
>>30513988
>>30513988
They were the same country, just different states, comparable to the US states.
Of course none of this matters as both ships were both built at shipyard No. 444 in Mykolaiv, Ukraine.
>>30514265
>>30512531
Why would China buy Su-35E when they have domestic J-11 production and 2 domestic stealth programs?
>>30514369
becuz their planes are shit
>>30514347
Lolwut?
>In April 2015, Egypt signed a contract, worth up to $2 billion, for 50 MiG-35 fighters.
>>30514369
Because they are dependant on Russian technology. And there is no such thing as "Su-35E".
>>30513412
No, I'm serious. What regional enemy could you possibly be worried about that some MiG-29s could possibly help you against? The Greeks are (still) on your side, the Bulgarians are too worried about Russia -
- oh, maybe the Bulgarians, then. Is Serbia and Russia still tight? You still best bros? Is that what this is about?
>>30514019
>45 planes and 15 helis isn't a force multiplier?
>45
I seriously doubt they're going to be operating that many fighters, unless they're ferrying them to the Syrian airbase.
It's not that the ship can't carry more, it's got to do with cost and operational cycles and such.
>>30514019
The article says it will be 15 planes and 10+ helos though. At least initially.
>>30514535
I'm not Serbian. But I'd imagine simply upgrading the existing fleet is the basic idea. Their main fighter is still MiG-21.
>>30514666
>Their main fighter is still MiG-21.
Jesus Christ Almighty they do need something new.
>>30514559
>it's got to do with cost and operational cycles and such
After that spectacular cruise missile strike I don't think anyone should have any doubts about their intention to test the equipment in combat. So I doubt costs are too much of a concern.
The thought of Fulcrums going on anti-kebab sorties makes by dick hard.
>>30514682
Well it's not like their neighbours have better planes either
>>30514682
Well, at least they have some Fulcrums. Croatian ONLY fighter is Fishbed. Same goes for Romania. I mean even Slovaks have 12 Fulcrums in service.
>>30514779
>dat camo
>dat tiger
>>30514682
They've long ignored their airforce, focusing instead on air defense systems. Budget is small so cost effectiveness is key.
>>30514722
Bulgarians have 15 Fulcrums.
>>30514707
>After that spectacular cruise missile strike I don't think anyone should have any doubts about their intention to test the equipment in combat. So I doubt costs are too much of a concern.
You don't need a lot of airframes to test costs, though. I think they'll use the "standard deployment" number of airframes specifically to test and practice their operational doctrine as well. You put your finger right on it; they're trying to git gud right now.
>>30514722
>>30514779
>>30514836
Well considering their budgets, that's a no-brainer. Serbia's small enough that you can cover most of the country's airspace with a small number of decent air-defense systems anyways.
Considering Serbia's tight ties to both Greece (NATO ally) and Russia, they're going to be in a nasty spot of shit kicks off in the Black Sea. I wonder if they're not upgunning because of that.
>>30514836
I don't think the issue is ignoring, I think it's just that NATO bombed most of their Fulcrums and they didn't have money to buy new afterwards. They kept the remaining rather well maintained it seems.
>>30514817
Go to hui.
>>30514869
Anon, they are operating fucking Fishbeds right now. Regardless of how small their country is, air force among other things still is a valuable component of air defence.
>Greece (NATO ally)
I highly doubt Greece will ever support any NATO aspirations aimed against Orthodox Christians.
>>30515113
They don't have to support them. But they'd be well advised to not oppose them.
Nice F-16 fleet you got there... be a shame if something happened to that shipment of replacement parts you got there...
>>30515156
>But they'd be well advised to not oppose them.
That's rather obvious.
>Nice F-16 fleet you got there
Actually that's quite a surprising amount of fighters for a country like Greece. Fighting off flying turks bugging your airspace must be hard.
>>30513412
Learn from the Bongs: ski ramps suck
Would anyone on /k/ prefer to buy a fleet of F-16s instead of MiG-29s for his air force for the ame money?
How good of an F-16 variant would $40 million a pop get you?
>>30516124
You know what else sucks? Steam catapults in Arctic.
>>30516192
With slav-level maintenance I'm sure it does.
Besides, EMALS is a thing now.
>>30516173
>Would anyone on /k/ prefer to buy a fleet of F-16s instead of MiG-29s for his air force for the ame money?
you need to be an American fuck boy to buy uncle Sam F-16
and even that won't guaranteed you will receive those F-16
you must on the level of Jew to buy American fighter
>>30516297
>1981
>Now
Walk away, Eugene.
>>30516173
Force commonality, logistical infrastructure, existing weapons stocks and political factors.
>>30511330
Su-30s would be better.
They're taking the Ka-52K anti ship helicopter for a spin in Syria. Not the Mig-29
>>30511330
The thing is that Serbia already have the infrastructure to service MiG-29's. If it would get a new jet, it would have to build new maintenance facilities and train new staff, which costs a ton. That's probably why they purchased the MiG.
>>30511330
it's not like anyone else would sell you anything.
They wont buy shit, cuz they are poorfags...
>>30511330
What's even the point? Nearly half of all AMRAAM victims have been MiG-29s.
>>30512634
Ive got no idea what generation Mig-29 that is, or variant, or it is just an optional package. However that loadout would be a good start, but it needs more, as much as it can carry or handle. Hell, a few dedicated EW birds would be primo.
>buying Mig-29's instead of Gripens
>>30514779
Romania bought a bunch of F-16s 1-2 years ago.
And their Fishbeds have a nice upgrade package.
>>30511761
Its just a bunch of serbs. All these migs have to do is drop a few bombs over mostar in the next war
>>30511668
>They wanted more F-16's but Obama is hostile to the anti-muslim brotherhood/anti-palestinian government.
stop talking out your ass
>>30511330
>Is there any better solution than MiG?
Gripen or F-16. MiG-29 is cheaper on delivery, but life cycle and operational costs will be higher with MiG.
>>30519434
>implying gripen is better plane
Hungary has them and half of them are not even operational.
I think MiG's are good enough for sky patrol and overall air defense. Its not like neighbour contries have better planes.
>>30516173
>How good of an F-16 variant would $40 million a pop get you?
Pierre Sprey's dream modification
>>30520065
>Hungary has them and half of them are not even operational.
Bull fucking shit. If they are not then that is because the hungarians are retarded or out of money.
Gripen is one of the cheapest and most easy aircraft to maintain.
>>30520542
Hungarian Gripen in "action"
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--KOHAmd_i--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/1295812118190399561.gif
>>30520592
A belly landing without serious injuries. It's not like the MiG-29 hasn't had their fair share of those.
What is the usage scenario for Serbian airforce? Protection against new NATO intervention? Involvment in NATO operation to bomb kebab? Conflict with other former Yugoslavia countries?
>>30520542
>Bull fucking shit. If they are not then that is because the hungarians are retarded or out of money.
I'd say both might be the answer when it comes to Hungarian AF. They pay peanuts and get monkeys, they are bleeding thier competent mechanics like crazy because airlines pay way higher wages.
>>30515000
>>30514817
Nippons did it to their F-15s
Also, would be good to see the Serbian air force with some FA-50s
>>30520592
That is the only mishap the HuAF has ever had with the Gripen but sure, great post.
The MiG-29s safety record compared to Gripens is well, pathetic.
>>30520643
Air Defense/Sky patrol from what I know. We are not willing to pay NATO to air patrol over our skies. On the long run it's much more cheaper and useful to revitalize our own AF instead.
>>30520668
Mostly because it was handled by sand niggers.
>>30520704
So it's just one of those ''our military wants a new toy because we are a country too'' thing?
>>30520721
Nah, mostly because a lot of countries are flying them. Gripen is used in what,5 countries?
>>30513318
Listen kid, I'm going to give u a piece of advice, and you should take it. You need to shut the fuck up because you don't know what you're talking about.
>>30511330
MiG 35s/29s are great, honestly they're better overall than a flanker buy, a MiG can do multirole.
>>30514381
Lol no. Chinese radar tech is now better than the Russians. Assuming this flanker deal is real, they might be replacing old PLANAF airframes
>>30521212
>MiG can do multirole
As if Su can't.
>>30521222
>Chinese anything
>Better than anything
Piss off, gook shill.
>>30521256
Ok dumbfuck
>>30521256
CY cant do multirole, that SU30 can't actually fire half of the ordinance in the picture unless it's upgraded with a western flight and weapons control system like the Malaysian ones.
The Chinese had to jurry rig and make and entirely new system just to get a flanker to shoot an AShM.
Buy MiG, you get multirole right off the bat.
>>30521256
>chinese
>gook
piss off, vodka nigger
>>30515156
>>30515334
Could Greece buy more Mirage 2000s if they had to? Are they even still in production?
>>30521369
>Greece
>buying anything
>>30520739
Gripen still has a much better safety record counting mishaps per flighthour compared to pretty much anything.
>>30521282
>>30521298
>>30521333
Mad gook shills, lol.
>>30520664
>FA-50
You mean this?
bump
>>30520102
I'm curious...
Serbia should just buy some YAK130s and call it a day.
>>30516349
>that butchered grammar and illogical hatred of superior LockMart tech
vatnik pls
ostavlyat
>>30524977
>>30519961
Why do the shills get so easily triggered?
>>30525062
Christ satire is lost on you people
>>30516173
40 million?
Just check this:
>EEUU offered Argentina a bunch of F16 block 30 (24 in a first batch, 24 in a second one), 35 million USD each, no armament.
Fucking Block 30. Fucking shit.
>>30521256
>Piss off, gook shill.
I'm a gook and im offended that I am lumped to the Chink
fuck off fifty cent
>>30513268
>Exactly what I was wondering; who's the regional enemy you need security against?
Italy, most strikes to serbia in the 90s where from italy.
>>30526894
That's a world better than what the argies are fielding right now though.
